The other day I bought a bar of Droste's extra dark bittersweet. I
believe it said 72% cacao solids on the wrapper. Wasn't bad. Today I
bought a bar of Lindt dark bittersweet. [They were out of the
Droste.] There was no percentage on the wrapper and the first listed
ingredient was sugar. Droste listed chocolate liquor as the first
ingredient. Caveat Emptor I suppose. I guess if the product was
called "Lindenhurst", and made in Lindenhurst, New Jersey [no offense
to New Jerseyites], the buyer might be a bit more attentive. I guess
it's "The grass is always greener on the other side of the road."
syndrome. And we [Lindt] make our chocolate in Switzerland! You
know, the place famous for watches. Yeah. It's obvious Lindt has
been taken over by MBA-types. Hell, the entire American network of
health-food stores, among other industries, has been affected by these
people. It's not unsual nowadays to walk into a health food store and
find products containing MSG and a host of other chemical additives.
High prices, fancy packaging, inferior ingredients.

xyz > wrote:
: The other day I bought a bar of Droste's extra dark bittersweet. I
: believe it said 72% cacao solids on the wrapper. Wasn't bad. Today I
: bought a bar of Lindt dark bittersweet. [They were out of the
: Droste.] There was no percentage on the wrapper and the first listed
: ingredient was sugar. Droste listed chocolate liquor as the first
: ingredient. Caveat Emptor I suppose. I guess if the product was
: called "Lindenhurst", and made in Lindenhurst, New Jersey [no offense
: to New Jerseyites], the buyer might be a bit more attentive. I guess
: it's "The grass is always greener on the other side of the road."
: syndrome. And we [Lindt] make our chocolate in Switzerland! You
: know, the place famous for watches. Yeah. It's obvious Lindt has
: been taken over by MBA-types. Hell, the entire American network of
: health-food stores, among other industries, has been affected by these
: people. It's not unsual nowadays to walk into a health food store and
: find products containing MSG and a host of other chemical additives.
: High prices, fancy packaging, inferior ingredients.

I buy Lindt 70% and Lindt 85% 3.5oz bars at my local
['upscale'] supermarket. They're staples at home.
--thelma

Well UK Lindt 70% dark has ingredients:
cocoa mass, sugar, cocoa butter, vanilla, soya lecithin
and is lovely.
I use it for eating or cooking - made some beautiful hazelnut brownies
using only 25g the other day. Tragically I now have to finish the bar :-)

Helen

xyz wrote:
> The other day I bought a bar of Droste's extra dark bittersweet. I
> believe it said 72% cacao solids on the wrapper. Wasn't bad. Today I
> bought a bar of Lindt dark bittersweet. [They were out of the
> Droste.] There was no percentage on the wrapper and the first listed
> ingredient was sugar. Droste listed chocolate liquor as the first
> ingredient. Caveat Emptor I suppose. I guess if the product was
> called "Lindenhurst", and made in Lindenhurst, New Jersey [no offense
> to New Jerseyites], the buyer might be a bit more attentive. I guess
> it's "The grass is always greener on the other side of the road."
> syndrome. And we [Lindt] make our chocolate in Switzerland! You
> know, the place famous for watches. Yeah. It's obvious Lindt has
> been taken over by MBA-types. Hell, the entire American network of
> health-food stores, among other industries, has been affected by these
> people. It's not unsual nowadays to walk into a health food store and
> find products containing MSG and a host of other chemical additives.
> High prices, fancy packaging, inferior ingredients.

at Thu, 19 Feb 2004 07:43:45 GMT in
>,
(xyz) wrote :

>The other day I bought a bar of Droste's extra dark bittersweet. I
>believe it said 72% cacao solids on the wrapper. Wasn't bad. Today I
>bought a bar of Lindt dark bittersweet. [They were out of the
>Droste.] There was no percentage on the wrapper and the first listed
>ingredient was sugar. Droste listed chocolate liquor as the first
>ingredient. Caveat Emptor I suppose. ... It's obvious Lindt has
>been taken over by MBA-types.

Lindt actually has many levels and formulations of chocolate. That's
typical of any large manufacturer. You may have gotten either the Surfin or
the Excellence bittersweet. Those are around 50% cocoa solids. But they
also make Excellence 70%, and Excellence 85%. You can't miss them - the
percentage is in large, bold type. The wrapper is white with black trim. If
you were to have been fair in comparing Droste 72%, you should compare it
against Excellence 70%. Excellence 70% is pretty good (I'd say better than
Droste 72%) but Excellence 85% is out-of-this-world, IMHO by far the best
85%-class bar on the market. Search for it and buy it. If it doesn't seem
to be in your local stores, demand that they bring it in.

FWIW, Lindt was never a really top-of-the-line chocolatier. They're OK, a
step up from Hershey's or Nestle, but not, for instance, in the class of
Valrhona or Michel Cluizel. So in that sense you shouldn't expect Lindt
bars to be truly great (although as it turns out, Excellence 85% *is*
great, a very pleasant surprise).


--
Alex Rast

(remove d., .7, not, and .NOSPAM to reply)

As others have said, your Lindt bar was probably around 50% cocoa solids,
not the 72% of your Droste chocolate, so it was indeed not a good
comparison.

If you compare the Droste 72% to the Lindt Excellence 70%, you will get a
fine idea of what people refer to as the "fruitiness" of dark chocolate.
The Lindt 70% is very fruity tasting, which is neither good nor bad - that's
just how it tastes, and it's an excellent chocolate for the money!

If you want to taste the best 70% chocolate, try one of the Valrhona
chocolates in that category - truly the standard for excellent chocolate.
The only reason I don't buy it that often is that it's from France, and I'm
not too enchanted with that country these days...same reason I no longer buy
French brie.

"xyz" > wrote in message
om...
> The other day I bought a bar of Droste's extra dark bittersweet. I
> believe it said 72% cacao solids on the wrapper. Wasn't bad. Today I
> bought a bar of Lindt dark bittersweet. [They were out of the
> Droste.] There was no percentage on the wrapper and the first listed
> ingredient was sugar. Droste listed chocolate liquor as the first
> ingredient. Caveat Emptor I suppose. I guess if the product was
> called "Lindenhurst", and made in Lindenhurst, New Jersey [no offense
> to New Jerseyites], the buyer might be a bit more attentive. I guess
> it's "The grass is always greener on the other side of the road."
> syndrome. And we [Lindt] make our chocolate in Switzerland! You
> know, the place famous for watches. Yeah. It's obvious Lindt has
> been taken over by MBA-types. Hell, the entire American network of
> health-food stores, among other industries, has been affected by these
> people. It's not unsual nowadays to walk into a health food store and
> find products containing MSG and a host of other chemical additives.
> High prices, fancy packaging, inferior ingredients.

at Sat, 21 Feb 2004 22:53:36 GMT in <PjRZb.239134$U%5.1513661@attbi_s03>,
(Luteguy) wrote :

>If you want to taste the best 70% chocolate, try one of the Valrhona
>chocolates in that category - truly the standard for excellent
>chocolate. The only reason I don't buy it that often is that it's from
>France, and I'm not too enchanted with that country these days...same
>reason I no longer buy French brie.

If you have misgivings about France, there are chocolates equal or in some
cases IMHO better than Valrhona from non-French companies. Try Amedei and
Domori from Italy. If you want to stay all-American, there's Guittard, and
Scharffen Berger, which I think you will particularly like since you're
fond of Valrhona and of fruity flavours in chocolate. (Scharffen Berger is
the fruitiest of the high-end manufacturers)

Fortunately, the French don't have a monopoly on good chocolate.




--
Alex Rast

(remove d., .7, not, and .NOSPAM to reply)

Thanks for the ideas, Alex - you're absolutely right, I have tried Amedei
before, and it is excellent...but have not found a local source of Scharffen
Berger. At some point here I'm going to get a significant $$$ order
together from Chocosphere and get my own sampler of brands I haven't tried.

I do have a spreadsheet of all the 70%+ chocolates and various comparison
info, sources, prices, etc. - something I've put together since swearing off
milk chocolates. (I started the Sugarbusters diet...I'm not overweight,
just became convinced I should no longer eat highly refined carbs.) So I'm
eager to develop some favorites.

I tried the Chocovic Origen Unico "Ocumare" type today (from Trader Joe's)
and it has a unique, almost herbal/spice taste - quite exquisite, definitely
something I'd put in the "excellent" category...

Luteguy

"Alex Rast" > wrote in message
...
> at Sat, 21 Feb 2004 22:53:36 GMT in <PjRZb.239134$U%5.1513661@attbi_s03>,
> (Luteguy) wrote :
>
> >If you want to taste the best 70% chocolate, try one of the Valrhona
> >chocolates in that category - truly the standard for excellent
> >chocolate. The only reason I don't buy it that often is that it's from
> >France, and I'm not too enchanted with that country these days...same
> >reason I no longer buy French brie.
>
> If you have misgivings about France, there are chocolates equal or in some
> cases IMHO better than Valrhona from non-French companies. Try Amedei and
> Domori from Italy. If you want to stay all-American, there's Guittard, and
> Scharffen Berger, which I think you will particularly like since you're
> fond of Valrhona and of fruity flavours in chocolate. (Scharffen Berger is
> the fruitiest of the high-end manufacturers)
>
> Fortunately, the French don't have a monopoly on good chocolate.
>
>
>
>
> --
> Alex Rast
>
> (remove d., .7, not, and .NOSPAM to reply)

"Luteguy" > wrote in message
news:vcT%b.71251$Xp.335796@attbi_s54...
> Thanks for the ideas, Alex - you're absolutely right, I have tried Amedei
> before, and it is excellent...but have not found a local source of
Scharffen
> Berger. At some point here I'm going to get a significant $$$ order
> together from Chocosphere and get my own sampler of brands I haven't
tried.
>
> I do have a spreadsheet of all the 70%+ chocolates and various comparison
> info, sources, prices, etc. - something I've put together since swearing
off
> milk chocolates. (I started the Sugarbusters diet...I'm not overweight,
> just became convinced I should no longer eat highly refined carbs.) So
I'm
> eager to develop some favorites.
>
> I tried the Chocovic Origen Unico "Ocumare" type today (from Trader Joe's)
> and it has a unique, almost herbal/spice taste - quite exquisite,
definitely
> something I'd put in the "excellent" category...
>
> Luteguy
>


Whole Foods usually, in my experience, has ScharffenBerger in stock. My
local store regularly has both the 70% and 99% in 8-10 oz. blocks.

Regards,
Dean

Lindt has been bought by Nestle, so I would not expect the quality to
improve and I am also not surprised at your experience.

It is a shame that the "big boys" are always trying to buy up the
quality producers and ruin them!

We can provide you with 71% bars (2.1 oz. for $2.25 each, plush
shipping). They are made from Callebaut Belgian chocolate and are far
superior to most anything else commercially available.

"Belvedere Belgian Chocolate Shop - Boulder, CO" wrote:

> Lindt has been bought by Nestle, so I would not expect the quality to
> improve and I am also not surprised at your experience.
>
> It is a shame that the "big boys" are always trying to buy up the
> quality producers and ruin them!

Is that the only way you can promote your business?
By bad-mouthing the competition?

>Is that the only way you can promote your business?
>By bad-mouthing the competition?
>
>

###########
I don't think he "competes" with Nestle> But his chocolate probably IS better.
BG

>We can provide you with 71% bars (2.1 oz. for $2.25 each, plush
>shipping). They are made from Callebaut Belgian chocolate and are far

##################
Have you got a website? BG

In article >,
says...
> Lindt has been bought by Nestle, so I would not expect the quality to
> improve and I am also not surprised at your experience.

This is incorrect.

Lindt & Sprüngli purchased Ghirardelli in 1998. Lindt & Sprüngli,
however, has not been purchased by anyone. Certainly their recent annual
reports do not indicate this acquisition, nor do any press releases
provided by either company.

Please do provide a citation backing your assertion up.

> It is a shame that the "big boys" are always trying to buy up the
> quality producers and ruin them!

> We can provide you with 71% bars (2.1 oz. for $2.25 each, plush
> shipping). They are made from Callebaut Belgian chocolate and are far
> superior to most anything else commercially available.

I would never purchase chocolate from anyone who could only drum up
business by spamming Usenet and spreading misinformation about the
competition.




--
Maggie UIN 10248195
http://www.darkfriends.net
"And what the, expletive very much included, **** do you want?" - Richard
O'Brien, _Revenge of the Old Queen_

(Maggie) wrote:
> In article >,
> says...
> > Lindt has been bought by Nestle, so I would not expect the quality to
> > improve and I am also not surprised at your experience.
>
> This is incorrect.
>
> Lindt & Sprüngli purchased Ghirardelli in 1998. Lindt & Sprüngli,
> however, has not been purchased by anyone. Certainly their recent annual
> reports do not indicate this acquisition, nor do any press releases
> provided by either company.

Perhaps the poster was confusing Lindt with the "Cailler" brand in
Switzerland, which is owned by Nestle. Dunno how, the names aren't
that similar, but it's possible...

--
http://ChocoLocate.com/ - The Chocolate Lovers' Page, established 1994.

NOTE: My Correct Address is in my signature (just remove the spaces).
On Tue, 23 Mar 2004 22:16:04 -0000,
(Dan Birchall) wrote:

(Maggie) wrote:
>> In article >,
>> says...
>> > Lindt has been bought by Nestle, so I would not expect the quality to
>> > improve and I am also not surprised at your experience.
>>
>> This is incorrect.
>>
>> Lindt & Sprüngli purchased Ghirardelli in 1998. Lindt & Sprüngli,
>> however, has not been purchased by anyone. Certainly their recent annual
>> reports do not indicate this acquisition, nor do any press releases
>> provided by either company.
>
>Perhaps the poster was confusing Lindt with the "Cailler" brand in
>Switzerland, which is owned by Nestle. Dunno how, the names aren't
>that similar, but it's possible...

Well, Nestles has purchased quite a few companies. For instance, the
UK's Rowntree and Italy's Perogina (makers of Baci). I didn't know
that Lindt bought Ghiradelli, however. I've got a bag of the
Ghiradelli milk chocolate squares that my boss brought me back from
the states. Not being much of a milk chocolate person, I'm not
totally sure if I'm a good judge, but I'm not totally impressed. Very
ordinary, no richness to them at all, but a fairly nice mouth feel, if
a tad on the grainy side at the end.

(Just took a look and I just noticed that there's no cocoa mass or
liqueur listed on the ingredients. Could this be the reason?)

--
Davida Chazan (The Chocolate Lady)
<davidac AT jdc DOT org DOT il>
~*~*~*~*~*~
"What you see before you, my friend, is the result of a lifetime of
chocolate."
--Katharine Hepburn (May 12, 1907 - June 29, 2003)
~*~*~*~*~*~

(Davida Chazan - The Chocolate Lady) wrote:
> I've got a bag of the
> Ghiradelli milk chocolate squares that my boss brought me back from
> the states. Not being much of a milk chocolate person, I'm not
> totally sure if I'm a good judge, but I'm not totally impressed. Very
> ordinary, no richness to them at all, but a fairly nice mouth feel, if
> a tad on the grainy side at the end.
>
> (Just took a look and I just noticed that there's no cocoa mass or
> liqueur listed on the ingredients. Could this be the reason?)

Um... cocoa-free chocolate? What? How'd they manage that?

-Dan

--
http://ChocoLocate.com/ - The Chocolate Lovers' Page, established 1994.

NOTE: My Correct Address is in my signature (just remove the spaces).
On Wed, 24 Mar 2004 06:18:56 -0000,
(Dan Birchall) wrote:

(Davida Chazan - The Chocolate Lady) wrote:
>> I've got a bag of the
>> Ghiradelli milk chocolate squares that my boss brought me back from
>> the states. Not being much of a milk chocolate person, I'm not
>> totally sure if I'm a good judge, but I'm not totally impressed. Very
>> ordinary, no richness to them at all, but a fairly nice mouth feel, if
>> a tad on the grainy side at the end.
>>
>> (Just took a look and I just noticed that there's no cocoa mass or
>> liqueur listed on the ingredients. Could this be the reason?)
>
>Um... cocoa-free chocolate? What? How'd they manage that?
>
It has unsweetened cocoa. I'm assuming that's the powder, not the
liqueur or mass.

(To its credit, it does have only cocoa butter, however.)

--
Davida Chazan (The Chocolate Lady)
<davidac AT jdc DOT org DOT il>
~*~*~*~*~*~
"What you see before you, my friend, is the result of a lifetime of
chocolate."
--Katharine Hepburn (May 12, 1907 - June 29, 2003)
~*~*~*~*~*~

NOTE: My Correct Address is in my signature (just remove the spaces).
On Wed, 24 Mar 2004 16:01:39 -0500, Maggie
> wrote:

>In article >,
says...
>
>> I've got a bag of the
>> Ghiradelli milk chocolate squares that my boss brought me back from
>> the states. Not being much of a milk chocolate person, I'm not
>> totally sure if I'm a good judge, but I'm not totally impressed. Very
>> ordinary, no richness to them at all, but a fairly nice mouth feel, if
>> a tad on the grainy side at the end.
>
>I'm rather fond of Ghirardelli dark chocolate bars with raspberries, as
>well as their truffles and filled chocolates.

Not living in the US means I can't often get my hands on these
chocolates. I'm at the mercy of my boss and whatever he brings back
for me. I've tried to train him, but sometimes he brings milk
chocolate back with him as well... oh, well...

>I'm not much for milk chocolate either, but I do like Ghirardelli milk
>chocolate for "everyday" chocolate. Beats the hell out of Hershey's any
>day of the week.

No competition! Hershey's is the very WORST.

>I have to wonder if you maybe laid hands on a bag of squares that had
>been improperly stored? One of the things I like about Ghirardelli is
>the smoothness - I've only ever noticed graininess if the squares have
>been mishandled.

Its very, very slight - and only after a minute or two after you
finish eating it. Like a tiny left over bit in your mouth you can
feel on your teeth.

But honestly, I must say that they are pretty good quality chocolates.
They're just... a tad... boring. Nothing particularly interesting
about the flavor - no undertones to brighten it up and make it really
special. Just plain nice.

(I'll ask him to try to get dark chocolate squares next time.)

--
Davida Chazan (The Chocolate Lady)
<davidac AT jdc DOT org DOT il>
~*~*~*~*~*~
"What you see before you, my friend, is the result of a lifetime of
chocolate."
--Katharine Hepburn (May 12, 1907 - June 29, 2003)
~*~*~*~*~*~

Lindt is a very good chocolate. I also really like des alpes. (It is
also a Swiss chocolate.) Chocolate is very different from maker to
maker because of how it is made. It is comprized of cocoa mass, sugar,
alcohol, cocoa powder and other additives. IT is sweeter bassed on how
much sugar is added and has a better tough feel the more it is ground.
Maybe everyone knew this already but thought that I would pass it
along.

at Thu, 25 Mar 2004 21:53:49 GMT in <c755ffc1.0403251353.3313ad38
@posting.google.com>, (alexbrown77) wrote :

>Lindt is a very good chocolate. I also really like des alpes. (It is
>also a Swiss chocolate.) Chocolate is very different from maker to
>maker because of how it is made. It is comprized of cocoa mass, sugar,
>alcohol, cocoa powder and other additives.

Correction: no alcohol. References to "chocolate liquor" on the label are
not talking about something alcoholic, but rather, the pure ground-up cocoa
nibs. It's the same thing as cocoa mass. More often the manufacturers don't
use cocoa powder, because it's uneconomical and inefficient to remove the
cocoa butter from chocolate liquor, only to add it back later. However,
I've seen labels that definitely list cocoa powder as an ingredient, so
some manufacturers do do this.


--
Alex Rast

(remove d., .7, not, and .NOSPAM to reply)