I found this at one of the retailers here so I bought a bottle.
I'll let you know what I think. :^")

"Bill Becker" > wrote in message
...
>I found this at one of the retailers here so I bought a bottle.
> I'll let you know what I think. :^")
>

Has there ever been a good tasting chili beer that one would want to drink
regularly?

I talked to a Rogue sales rep at a tasting party and he told me that the
Chipotle makes for a "great marinade".

"Blake S" > wrote in message
k.net...
>
> "Bill Becker" > wrote in message
> ...
>>I found this at one of the retailers here so I bought a bottle.
>> I'll let you know what I think. :^")
>>
>
> Has there ever been a good tasting chili beer that one would want to drink
> regularly?

lol. I tried Crazy Ed's crap one time years ago....5 3/4 bottles down the
drain.
>
> I talked to a Rogue sales rep at a tasting party and he told me that the
> Chipotle makes for a "great marinade".
>

That's the best thing he could say about it?? Things look grim.

"Bill Becker" > wrote:
> "Blake S" > wrote:
>> "Bill Becker" > wrote:
>>> I found this at one of the retailers here so I bought a bottle.
>>> I'll let you know what I think. :^")

>> Has there ever been a good tasting chili beer that one would want
>> to drink regularly?

> lol. I tried Crazy Ed's crap one time years ago....5 3/4 bottles
> down the drain.

The Cave Creek Chili Beer? Yeah, that sucked. Luckily, me and a
beer buddy found a single bottle and split it, so we only wasted
maybe 3/4 of a bottle.

But I also knew a guy who would occasionally order it when out
drinking, at the end of the night, because it would force him to
slow down his drinking.

>> I talked to a Rogue sales rep at a tasting party and he told me
>> that the Chipotle makes for a "great marinade".

> That's the best thing he could say about it?? Things look grim.

Well, maybe, but maybe not. I had a bottle a few months ago, and
while I don't particularly remember how it tasted, I DO know that
I was able to finish it, and generally thought it wasn't that bad.
It's not EXCESSIVE like the Cave Creek...
--
//*================================================= ===============++
|| Russ Perry Jr 2175 S Tonne Dr #114 Arlington Hts IL 60005 ||
|| 847-952-9729 [NEW!] VIDEOGAME COLLECTOR! ||
++================================================ ================*//

"Bill Becker" > though dead, wrapped in plastic, said
:

> I found this at one of the retailers here so I bought a bottle.
> I'll let you know what I think. :^")

Good stuff, IMO. Like it plenty.

As for Cave Creek, let it never be spoken of again.
--
************************************************** ***************
Dan Iwerks is to be replaced by Dan Iwerks 2, Electric Boogaloo.
The fundamental problem with Solipsism is it makes me
responsible for the fact that you're a complete idiot.
************************************************** ***************

>>I found this at one of the retailers here so I bought a bottle.
>>I'll let you know what I think. :^")

I've actually had a few bottles of this now. I think it's great - an
awesome undercurrent of smokey chipotle flavor - a little woody tasting
and all coming from a GOOD beer base. Completely unlike crazy Ed's
vinegar extravaganza. Put on your duster and spurs and fire up the DVD
of The Good The Bad and The Ugly and enjoy!

Crazy Ed's isn't even hot (and neither is the Rogue Chipotle) it's just
a pickled serrano stuck in a sub-Corona light lager. There is no
attempt to make it a chile beer.

I had a jalapeño ale on tap at the Sam Adams brew pub in Philly years ago
that I really loved. Took about 3 days to stop adding huge quantities of
methane to the atmosphere.

Jon



"Blake S" > wrote in message
k.net...
>
> "Bill Becker" > wrote in message
> ...
> >I found this at one of the retailers here so I bought a bottle.
> > I'll let you know what I think. :^")
> >
>
> Has there ever been a good tasting chili beer that one would want to drink
> regularly?
>
> I talked to a Rogue sales rep at a tasting party and he told me that the
> Chipotle makes for a "great marinade".
>
>
>

>>>Took about 3 days to stop adding huge quantities of methane to the
>>>atmosphere.

That was you?!?

"Randal" > wrote in
ups.com:

>>>I found this at one of the retailers here so I bought a
>>>bottle. I'll let you know what I think. :^")
>
> I've actually had a few bottles of this now. I think it's
> great - an awesome undercurrent of smokey chipotle flavor -
> a little woody tasting and all coming from a GOOD beer
> base. Completely unlike crazy Ed's vinegar extravaganza.
> Put on your duster and spurs and fire up the DVD of The
> Good The Bad and The Ugly and enjoy!

Heh!

I would also suggest a Spaten Optimator (or four) and _Cross of
Iron_. Leave the pea pattern camo and the PPSh-41 in the closet
where they belong.

> Crazy Ed's isn't even hot

I found it pretty hot. Heat but little flavor. As far as
vinegar goes, I found no acetic-ness to it, but then, I haven't
had it in years. Wouldn't surprise me, though, given their open
fermenters.

> (and neither is the Rogue
> Chipotle) it's just a pickled serrano stuck in a sub-Corona
> light lager. There is no attempt to make it a chile beer.

So what's a "chile beer" then? I always figured it was a beer
with chile in it, though most attempts don't work very well.

I've not had the Rogue, but will look for it. I admit that
Rogue fell off of my radar years ago. But chipotle is simply
one of my favorite chiles as it is so dang flavorful without the
heat that can be difficult to manage with, say, habeneros.

Sounds like the Rogue might be good for the ol' Beer Can Chicken
Trick.


Scott Kaczorowski
Long Beach, CA

>
>
> Scott Kaczorowski
> Long Beach, CA

So is Belmont Brewing company worth a trip? I'll be staying in Ontario for
a week next month and was thinking about going there one night.

>>So what's a "chile beer" then? I always figured it was a beer
>>with chile in it, though most attempts don't work very well.

Good question.

I suppose attempting to infuse some kind of chile into the beer as a
part of the process, rather than plunking a serrano into a bottle and
calling it done. I've had the Wynkoop Brewpub version of a green chile
beer and it was outstanding. No heat (green chile aren't typically hot
to my taste even barkers) but a wonderful Big Jim or Anaheim type
flavor. I think they made a chile infusion and added that to the
secondary fermentation. Still, it's not something I would drink more
than one glass of. Also it really helps to have a well-made base beer.
Crazy Ed's strikes me as a novelty, kind of like a worm in a tequila
bottle or something.

_Randal

"Randal" > wrote in message
ups.com...
>>>So what's a "chile beer" then? I always figured it was a beer
>>>with chile in it, though most attempts don't work very well.
>
> Good question.
>
> I suppose attempting to infuse some kind of chile into the beer as a
> part of the process, rather than plunking a serrano into a bottle and
> calling it done. I've had the Wynkoop Brewpub version of a green chile
> beer and it was outstanding. No heat (green chile aren't typically hot
> to my taste even barkers) but a wonderful Big Jim or Anaheim type
> flavor. I think they made a chile infusion and added that to the
> secondary fermentation. Still, it's not something I would drink more
> than one glass of. Also it really helps to have a well-made base beer.
> Crazy Ed's strikes me as a novelty, kind of like a worm in a tequila
> bottle or something.
>
> _Randal

I'm just now opening the bottle of Chipotle...

Btw, next time I'm in Ft. Collins, I'll have to try the Coopersmith Sigda's
Green Chili

"Bill Becker" > wrote in message
...

The beer pours a very nice amber with a huge head that settles down after a
while but it sticks around right to the end. Good sweet malty smell to
it...no hint of any peppers for me. The taste is very malty and then there's
a note of "heat" that lingers right through the aftertaste. This is
definitely different and pretty well done for what it is, imho, but....I
suspect that this style isn't exactly up my alley. ;^)

In rec.food.drink.beer Blake S > wrote:
:
:>
:>
:> Scott Kaczorowski
:> Long Beach, CA
:
: So is Belmont Brewing company worth a trip? I'll be staying in Ontario for
: a week next month and was thinking about going there one night.
:
:

That's a long drive from Ontario -- the beer is OK -- I've never had
anything at Belmont that belw me away but it's never been bad either.
Food is quite good. Ambience gets several stars -- you can't beat
sitting out on a deck right over the beach even if it's inside the
relative quiet of the harbor. If you go during the day you may also
catch sight of the large flock of wild Amazon parrots that live in the
trees along Belmont Shores.

That said, if you're in Ontario, take a shorter drive up to Pasadena...

http://www.luckybaldwins.com/mainpage.html (open late)

and possibly stop along the way in San Gabriel...

http://www.stuffedsandwich.com/beer.htm (closes early)

Both are, IMO, better destinations and much closer.

--
Bill
AT DOT
reply to bbenzel adelphia net

(Bill Benzel) wrote in
:

> In rec.food.drink.beer Blake S > wrote:
>:
>: So is Belmont Brewing company worth a trip? I'll be
>: staying in Ontario for a week next month and was thinking
>: about going there one night.
>
> [snip of what Bill said]

Gotta agree with that.

The beer is competent rather than spectacular, though the Long
Beach Crude just won a gold at the LA County Fair and really is
quite a good beer.

> That said, if you're in Ontario, take a shorter drive up to
> Pasadena...

There is also a Gordon Biersch and the Crown City brewpub within
walking distance of LB's. LB's is not a brewpub, but they will
have the full line of Craftsman's beers. Also, eat at GB. LB's
food is frankly crap.

However, from Ontario, I would hit Lamppost Pizza and Main
Street Brewery in Corona first and foremost. Don't let the kid-
infested pizza parlor fool you. There's a nice pub in a room by
itself in the corner.

Or maybe even Heroes in Fullerton for what I think has a vastly
underrated tap selection. Noisy and lots of kids, though.

> http://www.stuffedsandwich.com/beer.htm (closes early)

And the owner is a jerk.


Scott Kaczorowski
Long Beach, CA

"Randal" > wrote in
ups.com:

>>>So what's a "chile beer" then? I always figured it was a
>>>beer with chile in it, though most attempts don't work
>>>very well.
>
> Good question.
>
> I suppose attempting to infuse some kind of chile into the
> beer as a part of the process, rather than plunking a
> serrano into a bottle and calling it done.

I don't see much of a difference between that and plunking a
plug of Fuggles into a keg before bunging it up. Obviously, the
ingredients are different, but the process is the same.

> Crazy Ed's
> strikes me as a novelty, kind of like a worm in a tequila
> bottle or something.

Agreed. It's just not a very good beer and they could probably
achieve the same flavor while leaving the chile itself out.

We were at Cave Creek 6 or 7 years ago. Kind of a neat place,
actually. More of a compound than a brewery. I was surprised
at their use of open fermenters with little other than a mostly-
open screen door between them and the Great Unwashed.

We had lunch - don't remember if it was any good (I think it
was) and a Porter that was a little thin. The waitstaff was
pushing the chile beer *hard*. A family of about 8 cleancut
people sat near us and the waitron got them to buy a round.
Before the bottles showed up I whispered: "Heh! Watch this."
There was one young fellow who was going to choke his down,
dammit, and he did. But the other 7 took a sip and set it down,
not to be touched again.

You gotta wonder what the reasoning is behind foisting something
on people that they are almost guaranteed to not like. It's not
like it's the only beer they make.


Scott Kaczorowski
Long Beach, CA

"Blake S" > wrote in message
nk.net...

> So is Belmont Brewing company worth a trip? I'll be staying in Ontario
> for a week next month and was thinking about going there one night.

As Bill and Scott said, it's not really worth going out of your way for. I
enjoy BBC immensely, but it's just as much for the food, the fact it's about
three miles down the road from me, and that it's on the water, as it is for
the beer. The beer is solidly good. But it's not great, and nothing's ever
blown me away there (not that beer always has to blow me away; there's a
hell of a lot to be said for people who consistently brew solidly good
beer).

I know nothing in/of the inland counties, and I am quite blissful in my
ignorance of such, so I have no suggestions for your immediate area.
Pasadena's a bit of a hike from Ontario, but the options mentioned by others
are indeed good. There's a Yard House in Rancho Cucamonga, which is closer
than Pasadena, and depending on what part of the country you're coming in
from, there may be a lot there that you're not ordinarily able to get. Note
that the Yard House rarely has any terribly rare beers, but if you're from
the east coast, they'll have a lot that you're not accustomed to seeing.
(For locals, it can end up being like cable TV: 150 channels/taps, and
nothing interesting on.)

-Steve

"Steve Jackson" > wrote in
news:b9Zof.4511$l25.2814@trnddc03:

> I know nothing in/of the inland counties, and I am quite
> blissful in my ignorance of such,

Not too much going on out there I'll admit, but I'm tellin'
ya, Main Street in Corona is NOT A BAD PLACE.

Riverside Brewing Co. used to be worth the trip, and we still
stop there on the way back from infrequent trips to Arizona.
Not sure what happened to these folks, but the result is
pretty sad, especially given their early success. How you
screw something like this up in a UC town with ~22k
students... It's no Prescott Brewing Co., but it generally
comes up at about the right time in the drive for us.

PH Woods in Moreno Valley doesn't suck if you can get past
the off-the-rack Clam Jumper/Chilis decor.

I've heard good things about the Falconer in Redlands, though
I've never been.

> so I have no suggestions
> for your immediate area.

So why are you posting?

> Pasadena's a bit of a hike from
> Ontario,

Blah.

Actually, I wish Blake would tell us what he's after. If
he's a brewpub bagger, Long Beach would not be a bad place to
drive to from Ontario. In geographic order coming in from
the 71 to 91: Main Street, BJ's, BBC, Rock Bottom, San Pedro
Brewing Co., Red Car, Redondo Beach BC, Manhattan Beach BC,
cheapest local hotel possible.

If he's looking for West Coast beers, I'd have him stay away
from Lucky Baldwin's and strongly suggest Naja's.

Etc.

So you're home today. And we're not at Cafe Boogaloo 'cause
why?


Scott Kaczorowski
Long Beach, CA

> Sounds like the Rogue might be good for the ol' Beer Can Chicken
> Trick.
>
*I suggest you transfer it to a can first.

"Scott Kaczorowski" > wrote in message
...
> "Steve Jackson" > wrote in
> news:b9Zof.4511$l25.2814@trnddc03:
>
>> I know nothing in/of the inland counties, and I am quite
>> blissful in my ignorance of such,
>
> Not too much going on out there I'll admit, but I'm tellin'
> ya, Main Street in Corona is NOT A BAD PLACE.
>
> Riverside Brewing Co. used to be worth the trip, and we still
> stop there on the way back from infrequent trips to Arizona.
> Not sure what happened to these folks, but the result is
> pretty sad, especially given their early success. How you
> screw something like this up in a UC town with ~22k
> students... It's no Prescott Brewing Co., but it generally
> comes up at about the right time in the drive for us.
>
> PH Woods in Moreno Valley doesn't suck if you can get past
> the off-the-rack Clam Jumper/Chilis decor.
>
> I've heard good things about the Falconer in Redlands, though
> I've never been.
>
>> so I have no suggestions
>> for your immediate area.
>
> So why are you posting?
>
>> Pasadena's a bit of a hike from
>> Ontario,
>
> Blah.
>
> Actually, I wish Blake would tell us what he's after. If
> he's a brewpub bagger, Long Beach would not be a bad place to
> drive to from Ontario. In geographic order coming in from
> the 71 to 91: Main Street, BJ's, BBC, Rock Bottom, San Pedro
> Brewing Co., Red Car, Redondo Beach BC, Manhattan Beach BC,
> cheapest local hotel possible.
>
> If he's looking for West Coast beers, I'd have him stay away
> from Lucky Baldwin's and strongly suggest Naja's.
>

The only thing I was after was a trip to the Belmont Brewing Company. I've
been to many of the others that you've mentioned, but not Main Street. I've
got some friends living in Norco so maybe I'll check it out next time.
Coming from the Northwest, I'm surprised how far one has to travel in the
Southland for good beer. I did have one of the Belmonts on tap at another
pub, and it was tasty (something red, but can't remember the name exactly).
I was hoping that the Belmont was more of a hopheads hangout (as opposed to
Rock Bottom, Gordon Bierch, Taps etc.). Surprisingly, I've found the BJ's
(at least the one in West Covina), to brew better better beer than the ones
up here in Oregon (IMO). It's also strange to me that BJ's is always packed
in West Covina/Arcadia, but up here they're better known as an also-ran
brewpub that's not on the radar of most beer enthusiasts. The food at BJ's
is pretty good though (especially the buffalo chicken pizza).

"Blake S" > wrote in message
k.net...

> Coming from the Northwest, I'm surprised how far one has to travel in the
> Southland for good beer.

One has to travel far for everything here.

Of course, you're comparing one of the most beer-saturated regions of the
country to one that's, well, not.

> I did have one of the Belmonts on tap at another pub, and it was tasty
> (something red, but can't remember the name exactly). I was hoping that
> the Belmont was more of a hopheads hangout (as opposed to Rock Bottom,
> Gordon Bierch, Taps etc.).

BBC brews very nicely balanced beers. It's not the place to go for an
overload of hops by any stretch. Locally, to be honest, I'm not sure which
brewpubs I would put in that camp, actually.

> Surprisingly, I've found the BJ's (at least the one in West Covina), to
> brew better better beer than the ones up here in Oregon (IMO). It's also
> strange to me that BJ's is always packed in West Covina/Arcadia, but up
> here they're better known as an also-ran brewpub that's not on the radar
> of most beer enthusiasts. The food at BJ's is pretty good though
> (especially the buffalo chicken pizza).

Eh. BJ's has never impressed me. They're not bad, and they do have a couple
rather nice beers. The food's OK, as long as one steers well clear of the
pizza (and that's without getting into my customary rant about how there's
nothing remotely Chicago-style about the stuff).

-Steve

"Steve Jackson" > wrote in
news:ks4qf.5587$vJ4.1985@trnddc07:

> "Blake S" > wrote in message
> k.net...

> BBC brews very nicely balanced beers. It's not the place to
> go for an overload of hops by any stretch. Locally, to be
> honest, I'm not sure which brewpubs I would put in that
> camp, actually.

Or really big beers, neither.

Pizza Port is the only place that comes to mind that fits both bills
consistently. Of course, it's hardly in the area under discussion.
Frankly, Blake, if you've not been, it might be worth the 125-mile (one-
way) drive from Ontario. And I mean that. It just might be worth it.

In any case...Makes me all the more grateful for places like Boogaloo
and Father's Office (the latter of which is becoming more and more of a
nightmare - a victim of its own success).

>> Surprisingly, I've found the BJ's (at least the one in
>> West Covina), to brew better better beer than the ones up
>> here in Oregon (IMO).

Hmm. That shouldn't be. BJ's is not like Rock Bottom in that (my
understanding is that) they don't give the local brewers too much leeway
'cept for the Beer(s) of the Month. Alex Puchner told me once that he
spends a lot of time traveling to insure consistency.

>> It's also strange to me that BJ's
>> is always packed in West Covina/Arcadia, but up here
>> they're better known as an also-ran brewpub

I think they make a good beer. I particularly like the Tatonka Stout.
And The Commander would kill you for the last pint of their Porter on
the planet.

But the fact that they're packed (try the one in Brea sometime) has less
to do with the beer and more to do with atmosphere, location, and food.
And the service is almost always good.

And I have to say: "Up there" includes such things as Tugboat. And
Widmer is an also-ran if ever there was one. Oh yeah...and
Hart/Pyramid, and McMenamins, and... You's got WAY more Culture than we
do, and Oregon is one of the few places that can support a beer-only,
small brewpub that caters to beer geeks. Witness Lucky Lab - Hard to
find, not so hot part of town, still in business after at least a decade
(?) But I think there's a legitimate place for chains. If the
excremental Chili's can rule every mall and off-ramp, then BJ's is
****ING FABULOUS.

>> that's not on
>> the radar of most beer enthusiasts.

Frane (and Brools?) has had nice things to say about them in the distant
past.

>> The food at BJ's is
>> pretty good though (especially the buffalo chicken pizza).

I like the chowder. I don't know (or care) if it's "real" New England
style or not. LOTS o' clams and it is to my liking.

> Eh. BJ's has never impressed me. They're not bad, and they
> do have a couple rather nice beers. The food's OK, as long
> as one steers well clear of the pizza (and that's without
> getting into my customary rant about how there's nothing
> remotely Chicago-style about the stuff).

And yet, you just had to sneak that in...

Dunno about Chicago style pizza. I suspect your view is based on your
direct and somewhat nostalgic experience and is therefore far too narrow
to be useful to most people.

I think the pizza at BJ's is good, but perhaps not excellent. Chicago
(pronounced "Chikwago" if I'm not mistaken) style pizza...maybe not.
But what do you call it? BJs Style? They're so insanely successful
they could probably switch to Babyshit Style Pizza ("And You WILL Wipe
Your Own Bottom.")

I'm also guessing there's variation (and therefore the subject of
endless discussion) in Chicago itself. Just a guess.

I saw some guy on the Food Channel one night and he claimed the business
he inherited (don't remember the name because I don't care) invented
Chicago style pizza. And then he made one. "Gotta put the cheese down
first. A *real* Chicago style pizza starts with cheese, *then* the
sauce." Looked like New York style to me with bigger crust and covert
cheese. Did it look like a BJ's pizza? Not even sort of. Haven't had
a "real" Chicago pizza, so I will reserve opinion (for a change), but I
do think that BJ's makes a good pizza no matter what the label. I'll
take one over that California Pizza Kitchen nonsense any day. And the
Pizzookies are genius.

How 'bout another one: The Philly cheesesteak (disclaimer: I've never
been to Pat's or Geno's). There's a reason you can't get a "real"
Philly cheesesteak outside of, what?, two venues at the source? It's
just a stupid ****ing mess of a sandwich. Not a hard sandwich to make -
give me 30 minutes notice and I'll whip one up for you. And yeah, I
can. I'll have to go scare up the ribeye, Cheese Whiz, and "Italian"
roll (I suspect Italians have the same opinion of Geno's roll as you do
about BJ's pizza). Onions I have, and it seems to me that they should
be required rather than optional. The roll *might* be the only thing
that gives me trouble.

While there's certainly something to be said for a mess of a
meat'n'cheese sandwich, I'd rather have some green crunchy stuff,
perhaps some garlic, real cheese, tomatoes - sure, habenero sauce, etc.
on mine. And I'd rather not have to bend over to eat it 'cause I just
don't care for that position. So, here's another example of something
that doesn't translate well (IMO) and yet is successful locally. Fine.

But to your point: One ought not call Heineken a Belgian Tripel. And
you should stop snivelling/whinging/whining about BJ's pizza.


Scott Kaczorowski
Long Beach, CA

In rec.food.drink.beer Scott Kaczorowski > wrote:
:
: How 'bout another one: The Philly cheesesteak (disclaimer: I've never
: been to Pat's or Geno's). There's a reason you can't get a "real"
: Philly cheesesteak outside of, what?, two venues at the source? It's
: just a stupid ****ing mess of a sandwich. Not a hard sandwich to make -
: give me 30 minutes notice and I'll whip one up for you. And yeah, I
: can. I'll have to go scare up the ribeye, Cheese Whiz, and "Italian"
: roll (I suspect Italians have the same opinion of Geno's roll as you do
: about BJ's pizza). Onions I have, and it seems to me that they should
: be required rather than optional. The roll *might* be the only thing
: that gives me trouble.
:

Cheese Whiz is a relatively recent addition, done to maximize profits
now that Fulufia has become a tourist destination. When I was living
there it was never evan an option on a decent steak and certainly was
never the default. The places on South St. started that crap.

A real steak is made with provolone. You also need to slice the meat
while it's frozen in order to get the right consistency. The roll is
probaly not all that hard, some neighborhood places use standard deli
hard rolls (unseeded) and it works. The gold standard for the roll is
made by Amoroso's. The other item of note at the truly great
neighborhood places is, of course, the peppers -- you need an assortment
of peppers on the counter -- the standard italian cherry peppers both
whole and sliced, pepperoncini, fried sweet green peppers, red devils,
chile sauce -- it all belongs and needs to be there for you to add
yourself. Also, tomato sauce, fried onions and mushrooms are frequently
chosen options.

Pat's and Geno's don't come close to being great steaks -- they're OK.
That said, a trip to the original Pat's on Passyunk Ave. at 2:30 AM is
something anyone visiting Fulufia should plan for.

There are dozens, hell maybe hundreds of little places that still make a
really good steak. Everyone has a favorite. If you ever get out there
I suggest you make it out to Walnut Lane and Henry Ave. and have a steak
at D'Allesandro's. Follow it up with a trip aound the corner to "The
Custard Stand" at Ridge and Richter for dessert.

There's a small chain called "Philly's Best" up in your neck of the
woods -- they have a pretty good simulation going barring the poor
selection of peppers -- just ask for provolone instead of whiz and
you'll get a decent steak on an Amoroso's roll (flown in daily). They
have TastyCakes and Frank's Sodas (get a Black Cherry or Cream with your
steak).

--
Bill
AT DOT
reply to bbenzel adelphia net

"Scott Kaczorowski" > wrote in message
> How 'bout another one: The Philly cheesesteak (disclaimer: I've never
> been to Pat's or Geno's). There's a reason you can't get a "real"
> Philly cheesesteak outside of, what?, two venues at the source? It's
> just a stupid ****ing mess of a sandwich. Not a hard sandwich to make -
> give me 30 minutes notice and I'll whip one up for you. And yeah, I
> can. I'll have to go scare up the ribeye, Cheese Whiz, and "Italian"
> roll (I suspect Italians have the same opinion of Geno's roll as you do
> about BJ's pizza). Onions I have, and it seems to me that they should
> be required rather than optional. The roll *might* be the only thing
> that gives me trouble.
>
> While there's certainly something to be said for a mess of a
> meat'n'cheese sandwich, I'd rather have some green crunchy stuff,
> perhaps some garlic, real cheese, tomatoes - sure, habenero sauce, etc.
> on mine. And I'd rather not have to bend over to eat it 'cause I just
> don't care for that position. So, here's another example of something
> that doesn't translate well (IMO) and yet is successful locally. Fine.

So frickin' wrong. Who said it was an "Italian" roll? Maybe the folks who
buy them at Sarcone's in the "Italian Market" on 9th Street? It's a steak
roll, or maybe you use a hoagie roll. It's like michigan rolls in
Plattsburgh: you cannot get 'em like that anywhere else. Everything is NOT
better with garlic on it, and all that other shit is just wrong, belongs on
a hoagie. If you put all that shit on it, it is no longer a cheesesteak. If
you let it sit for more than 15 minutes, it is no longer a cheesesteak.

As for the reason you can't get a real Philly cheesesteak more than 50 miles
from Philadelphia (my experience, and anyone who says you can only get them
at Pat's or Geno's is working for the city tourism board), it's because
everyone who makes them farther away than that ****s 'em up. Why? I don't
know. Maybe it's because of a lack of respect, maybe it's because they keep
thinking of ways to make them "better," maybe it's because they try to make
them cheaper, maybe it's because they don't have the right kind of grill or
the right kind of technique or the right kind of tools.

But I have never had a cheesesteak that was worth a shit that was made more
than about 60 miles from Center City, and I only say that because there's a
place in Lancaster, PA, that makes an uncannily good one, and there's some
good places down the shore. North? South? They don't get it. I ordered a
cheesesteak one time in upstate PA, I got a jeezly hot dog bun, chunks of
beef and lamb, green bell peppers, and mint. ****ing MINT! The reason you
can't get a good cheesesteak outside of this area is because everyone thinks
they know so much. Fine. Whatever.

Now...about the roast pork and greens sammich...From that, you guys really
don't know.

What about spiedies? Beef on weck? Michigans? Any of you *******s think you
can make THEM where you live?

Jesus wept.

--
Lew Bryson

"GOOD or SHITE?" -- Michael Jackson, "Thriller", 1982
www.lewbryson.com

Lew Bryson > wrote:
>Now...about the roast pork and greens sammich...From that, you guys really
>don't know.
>
>What about spiedies? Beef on weck? Michigans? Any of you *******s think you
>can make THEM where you live?

As a matter of fact, yes. I can make them all.... only BETTER.
I eat them along with my BETTER THAN FRICKIN' WESTMALLE HOMEBREW!!1!!11!

Happy holidays to the lot o' you.
--
Joel Plutchak "Too often, our cultural emphasis on freedom and individual
plutchak@[...] rights gets taken to the extreme, becoming a kind of selfish
entitlement that undermines our ability to function as a
civil community.€�

"Lew Bryson" > channeled Nik on 21 Dec:
> As for the reason you can't get a real Philly cheesesteak more
> than 50 miles from Philadelphia (my experience, and anyone who
> says you can only get them at Pat's or Geno's is working for the
> city tourism board), it's because everyone who makes them
> farther away than that ****s 'em up. Why? I don't know. Maybe
> it's because of a lack of respect, maybe it's because they keep
> thinking of ways to make them "better,"...

I agree with this statement. That said, Chink's made the best, most
politically incorrect Philly Cheese I've had the pleasure of eating
while staring at the hired help.

> What about spiedies? Beef on weck? Michigans? Any of you
> *******s think you can make THEM where you live?

Where my mom lives, yes. Where your mom lives, yes. How ****ing
hard is it to make a spiedie? Jeebus.

Some things need to die off, though, like beef on weck.

Witzel

"Scott Kaczorowski" > wrote in message
...

> Pizza Port is the only place that comes to mind that fits both bills
> consistently. Of course, it's hardly in the area under discussion.
> Frankly, Blake, if you've not been, it might be worth the 125-mile (one-
> way) drive from Ontario. And I mean that. It just might be worth it.

There's the one in San Clemente now. So, probably only like 100, 125 miles
round-trip.

> In any case...Makes me all the more grateful for places like Boogaloo
> and Father's Office (the latter of which is becoming more and more of a
> nightmare - a victim of its own success).

"No one ever goes there anymore. It's too crowded." - Yogi Berra

> Dunno about Chicago style pizza. I suspect your view is based on your
> direct and somewhat nostalgic experience and is therefore far too narrow
> to be useful to most people.

No, it's based on the fact that BJ's and the likes of Lou Malnatti's, Geno's
East, etc. have absolutely nothing in common other than the presence of some
cheese, some tomato sauce, and some sort of thing involving flour underneath
it all.

>
> I think the pizza at BJ's is good, but perhaps not excellent. Chicago
> (pronounced "Chikwago" if I'm not mistaken) style pizza...maybe not.
> But what do you call it? BJs Style?

Standard faux "Chicago" style. It's not much different than the wrong way
I've seen so-called Chicago pizza done all over the place. Seriously, it's
just as bad, if not worse, than places all over the country serving "Philly"
cheesesteaks involving green peppers and Swiss cheese, two ingredients that
can't even be found in any of the cheesesteak places I've been to in Philly.

> I'm also guessing there's variation (and therefore the subject of
> endless discussion) in Chicago itself. Just a guess.

There is. For instance, Lou Malnatti's has more of a pastry-style crust,
while Geno's does a polenta crust. And Giardano's does a stuffed pie. But
there is one thing pretty constant: it's not a big, doughy, gloppy crust
like BJ's. Chicago pizza crust is actually fairly thin. The deep dish comes
with lots of sauce and lots of cheese. Lots of cheese.

> I saw some guy on the Food Channel one night and he claimed the business
> he inherited (don't remember the name because I don't care) invented
> Chicago style pizza. And then he made one. "Gotta put the cheese down
> first. A *real* Chicago style pizza starts with cheese, *then* the
> sauce."

Sounds about right.

> Looked like New York style to me with bigger crust and covert
> cheese.

The curst is most comporable to a pie crust. As in an apple pie or the like.
Deep sides, but not thick. There are a lot of variations on the crust, as
noted above, but the template doesn't vary much.

> Did it look like a BJ's pizza? Not even sort of.

My point exactly.

> Haven't had
> a "real" Chicago pizza, so I will reserve opinion (for a change), but I
> do think that BJ's makes a good pizza no matter what the label.

And see, even there, I don't really agree. Then again, I haven't found good
pizza at all in southern California yet. Just some acceptable pizza, as well
as some truly attrocious pizza (like one place down the street from me).

> How 'bout another one: The Philly cheesesteak (disclaimer: I've never
> been to Pat's or Geno's). There's a reason you can't get a "real"
> Philly cheesesteak outside of, what?, two venues at the source?

Lot's of cheesesteak places other than Pat's and Geno's.

> It's
> just a stupid ****ing mess of a sandwich. Not a hard sandwich to make -
> give me 30 minutes notice and I'll whip one up for you. And yeah, I
> can. I'll have to go scare up the ribeye, Cheese Whiz, and "Italian"
> roll (I suspect Italians have the same opinion of Geno's roll as you do
> about BJ's pizza). Onions I have, and it seems to me that they should
> be required rather than optional. The roll *might* be the only thing
> that gives me trouble.

Find me some white American cheese, and we'll talk.

Or, hell, I'll take you up to Burbank, and we'll go to a place that people I
knew who grew up near Philly swear is the best, most authentic cheesesteak
they've had outside of Philly.

> But to your point: One ought not call Heineken a Belgian Tripel. And
> you should stop snivelling/whinging/whining about BJ's pizza.

Only when you stop snivelling/whinging/whining about In 'N Out Burger. Every
bit as bad and over-rated as you think they are, that's what I think of BJ's
pizza.

-STeve

"Bill Benzel" > wrote in message
...

> A real steak is made with provolone.

From my understanding from people who grew up around Philly, it's not
provolone. It's white American.

> There's a small chain called "Philly's Best" up in your neck of the
> woods -- they have a pretty good simulation going barring the poor
> selection of peppers -- just ask for provolone instead of whiz and
> you'll get a decent steak on an Amoroso's roll (flown in daily).

I've had theirs. Wasn't terribly impressed. Best I've had in LA (and the one
praised by my Philly friends) is South Street in Burbank (great ices, too).
(South Street, incidentally, is down the street about two miles from a
different place in Burbank whose name escapes me that does a pretty good -
and accurate - Chicago-sytle Italian beef, as well as proper Chicago hot
dogs.)

-Steve

"Lew Bryson" > wrote in
t:

> "Scott Kaczorowski" > wrote in message
>> How 'bout another one: The Philly cheesesteak
>
> As for the reason you can't get a real Philly cheesesteak
> more than 50 miles from Philadelphia

I said: "So, here's another example of something that
doesn't translate well (IMO) and yet is successful locally.
Fine."

But...I'd like to know that, too, because I find it
impossible to believe that an authentic <anything> can't
possibly be made more than 60 miles from The Source. Hell, I
believe you can get fugu in Los Angeles, and I know you can
get perfectly authentic Hawaiian at Bruddah's in Gardena
(they even have musubi fer g'ness sake). And apparently you
can get a pretty good cheesesteak in Burbank.

Those at 60+ miles are not to your liking/tastes because the
tastes in those areas are different from yours. The same
thing as with Steve's Chicago style pizza. It's a
regional/local thing. That's all. Has nothing to do with
grill manufacturers, or how the beef is treated 30 seconds
before they're offed, or whether or not the onions are sliced
under a black light, or what the expiration date on the Whiz
is, or...

The market may not demand It in a certain place, so It is
either different or rare.

I am *SO* going to take your ****ing miserable hide to Lares
and El Tepeyac if you ever haul your miserable ****ing hide
out this way. (And maybe La Golondrina and maybe even El
Mercado in Boyle Heights. The gorditas...you will want to
rub my feet in gratitude and I will let you.)

> What about spiedies?

Marinated bits of meat on a skewer...What's the word I'm
looking for?...shish-ka-something, I think.

> Beef on weck?

Roast beef sandwich without produce? What? Is the roll The
Thing?

> Michigans?

Whats?

Dude! Get some salad in your life. Seriously.

> Any of you
> *******s think you can make THEM where you live?

Of course I can. Can't you? Or are the rolls treated like
narcotics outside of 60 miles?

It's steak on a roll. That's ALL it is. Peppers, Whiz,
mushrooms...whatever. Sounds really tough to make to me.
Dang near ****ing impossible in fact. My mind reels at the

complexity of such a thing...


Scott Kaczorowski
Long Beach, CA

"Steve Jackson" > wrote in
news:%Otqf.44539$CL.30605@trnddc04:

> "Scott Kaczorowski" > wrote in message
> ...
>
>> I saw some guy on the Food Channel one night and he
>> claimed the business he inherited (don't remember the name
>> because I don't care) invented Chicago style pizza. And
>> then he made one. "Gotta put the cheese down first. A
>> *real* Chicago style pizza starts with cheese, *then* the
>> sauce."
>
> Sounds about right.

And I should have mentioned the crust. By "big" I meant
tall, not thick.

>> Haven't had
>> a "real" Chicago pizza, so I will reserve opinion (for a
>> change), but I do think that BJ's makes a good pizza no
>> matter what the label.
>
> And see, even there, I don't really agree. Then again, I
> haven't found good pizza at all in southern California yet.

I'll be darned. I subscribe to the "pizza is like sex"
theory: Even bad pizza is not really all that bad.

(Try Spinelli's at Los Coyotes and Spring.)

> Find me some white American cheese, and we'll talk.

There's no difference in taste. Find it yourself.

Oh yeah, and I'm pretty sure I've seen the Land'o'Lakes
version at the local Pavilions. Willing to be wrong about
that, but then, I fail to see how it matters.

Geez...Whiz, American cheese...

> Or, hell, I'll take you up to Burbank, and we'll go to a
> place that people I knew who grew up near Philly swear is
> the best, most authentic cheesesteak they've had outside of
> Philly.

Deal. But only if they are originally from inside the 60
mile limit.

>> But to your point: One ought not call Heineken a Belgian
>> Tripel. And you should stop snivelling/whinging/whining
>> about BJ's pizza.
>
> Only when you stop snivelling/whinging/whining about In 'N
> Out Burger.

It's just not a great burger. It just isn't. And I STILL
don't understand how the burger can be the subject of legend,
but the flacid and undercooked fries are on the verge of
being pointless.

> Every bit as bad and over-rated as you think
> they are, that's what I think of BJ's pizza.

Your wonrngering, giggy.



Scott Kaczorowski
Long Beach, CA

"Joel" > wrote in message
...
> Lew Bryson > wrote:
>>What about spiedies? Beef on weck? Michigans? Any of you *******s think
>>you
>>can make THEM where you live?
>
> As a matter of fact, yes. I can make them all.... only BETTER.
> I eat them along with my BETTER THAN FRICKIN' WESTMALLE HOMEBREW!!1!!11!

Oh. Well. YOU. That's a different kettle o' squid, in't it?

> Happy holidays to the lot o' you.

Happy homebrewin'.

--
Lew Bryson

"GOOD or SHITE?" -- Michael Jackson, "Thriller", 1982
www.lewbryson.com

"Dave Witzel" > wrote in message
> "Lew Bryson" > channeled Nik on 21 Dec:
>> As for the reason you can't get a real Philly cheesesteak more
>> than 50 miles from Philadelphia (my experience, and anyone who
>> says you can only get them at Pat's or Geno's is working for the
>> city tourism board), it's because everyone who makes them
>> farther away than that ****s 'em up. Why? I don't know. Maybe
>> it's because of a lack of respect, maybe it's because they keep
>> thinking of ways to make them "better,"...
>
> I agree with this statement. That said, Chink's made the best, most
> politically incorrect Philly Cheese I've had the pleasure of eating
> while staring at the hired help.

Did I tell you we went back there after a Grey Lodge session back in
September? And got a chocolate milkshake? And even Cathy admitted that the
scenery was exceptional. Ah.....

>> What about spiedies? Beef on weck? Michigans? Any of you
>> *******s think you can make THEM where you live?
>
> Where my mom lives, yes. Where your mom lives, yes. How ****ing
> hard is it to make a spiedie? Jeebus.

My mom can't make spiedies worth a damn. Your mom can't even get fried eggs
right. The simplest things...get ****ed up the most. I ought to get that
dumbass who put the mint in my cheesesteak to start making spiedies, tell
him they're cheesesteaks. That might work.

> Some things need to die off, though, like beef on weck.

You only say this because you've never been to Schwabl's, you total ass. Go.
Then tell me how beef on weck must die. You'll cry as you apologize.
(Seriously, go between Thanksgiving and St. Pat's so you can get a hot Tom &
Jerry, it's to die for.)

Schwabl's made me a believer. They've been making weck since the 1840s.
Before I went to Schwabl's, weck was just a beef sandwich with a weird roll.
Now it's a constant low-level hardon in the back of my brain that keeps
telling me to go to freaking Buffalo and get juicy rare red meat on a
salt-crunchy roll slopped up with beefy blood. Imagine my shame. It's ruined
my life, but I love it. I want one. Want it now.

--
Lew Bryson

"GOOD or SHITE?" -- Michael Jackson, "Thriller", 1982
www.lewbryson.com

"Scott Kaczorowski" > wrote in message
> "Lew Bryson" > wrote in
>> As for the reason you can't get a real Philly cheesesteak
>> more than 50 miles from Philadelphia
> Those at 60+ miles are not to your liking/tastes because the
> tastes in those areas are different from yours. The same
> thing as with Steve's Chicago style pizza. It's a
> regional/local thing. That's all. Has nothing to do with
> grill manufacturers, or how the beef is treated 30 seconds
> before they're offed, or whether or not the onions are sliced
> under a black light, or what the expiration date on the Whiz
> is, or...
>
> The market may not demand It in a certain place, so It is
> either different or rare.

Now THAT is the first thing you've said that makes sense. That's effing
brilliant. Explains the spiedie thing, too. People outside of the 60 mile
radius are JUST TOO STOOPID to like cheesesteaks. Right!

> I am *SO* going to take your ****ing miserable hide to Lares
> and El Tepeyac if you ever haul your miserable ****ing hide
> out this way. (And maybe La Golondrina and maybe even El
> Mercado in Boyle Heights. The gorditas...you will want to
> rub my feet in gratitude and I will let you.)

Cool by me. I LOVE regional specialities. I just hate it when people try to
reproduce mine and **** it up.

>> Beef on weck?
>
> Roast beef sandwich without produce? What? Is the roll The
> Thing?

No. It's ALL the thing. It's Beef Zen.

>> Michigans?
>
> Whats?
>
> Dude! Get some salad in your life. Seriously.

I have salad. Beats the hell out of me why anyone would wax rhapsodic about
it. When I came back from a week of pork and weisswurst and cheese and eggs
in Bavaria, I ate a LOT of salad. And tomatoes, just sliced and drizzled
with balsamic. And fungus. But I also had chicken, and it was GOOD.

>> Any of you
>> *******s think you can make THEM where you live?
>
> Of course I can. Can't you? Or are the rolls treated like
> narcotics outside of 60 miles?

No, they just turn to shite. It's all linked to Heisenberg.

> It's steak on a roll. That's ALL it is. Peppers, Whiz,
> mushrooms...whatever. Sounds really tough to make to me.
> Dang near ****ing impossible in fact. My mind reels at the
> complexity of such a thing...

Finally. Honesty. Thank God for sweet reason.

That's like saying Glenfarclas 105 is just malt and water in a bottle.

--
Lew Bryson

"As for talking shit in this NG, Lew, you're the undisputed king, and
that's no SHITE." -- Bob Skilnik, 1/31/02

www.lewbryson.com

In rec.food.drink.beer Scott Kaczorowski > wrote:
:>
:> Only when you stop snivelling/whinging/whining about In 'N
:> Out Burger.
:
: It's just not a great burger. It just isn't. And I STILL
: don't understand how the burger can be the subject of legend,
: but the flacid and undercooked fries are on the verge of
: being pointless.
:

Next time you get dragged to an In 'N Out against your will ask them to
make your burger "animal style." It's an improvement.

The fries are definitely not worth touching. The buns are not great
either.

But if I'm being dragged to a fast food parlor I's still prefer to be
dragged to an In 'N Out than a Jack, McD, BK or Wendy's. I'll kick and
scream bloody murder before you get me across the threshold of those
places.

I may have to go to a Jack this year, order three combos and throw them
in the trash. I want the balls.


--
Bill
AT DOT
reply to bbenzel adelphia net

"Douglas W. Hoyt" > wrote in message
...
> >>>Took about 3 days to stop adding huge quantities of methane to the
> >>>atmosphere.
>
> That was you?!?
>

Yep, the Atlantic ocean rose 3" 'cause of the global warming.

"Bill Benzel" > wrote in message news:43ac14da$0$8468
> I may have to go to a Jack this year, order three combos and throw them
> in the trash. I want the balls.

Y'know, you might wanna think about what that looks like to the rest of us.

--
Lew Bryson

"As for talking shit in this NG, Lew, you're the undisputed king, and
that's no SHITE." -- Bob Skilnik, 1/31/02

www.lewbryson.com

In rec.food.drink.beer Lew Bryson > wrote:
: "Bill Benzel" > wrote in message news:43ac14da$0$8468
:> I may have to go to a Jack this year, order three combos and throw them
:> in the trash. I want the balls.
:
: Y'know, you might wanna think about what that looks like to the rest of us.
:

Lew, is there no Jack In The Box advertising in the East???

http://www.jackinthebox.com/index2.php

Three of 'em -- high kitsch -- put 'em on yer antenna or use 'em to
decorate yer Christmas tree.


--
Bill
AT DOT
reply to bbenzel adelphia net

"Bill Benzel" > wrote in message news:43ac5c28$0$8452
> In rec.food.drink.beer Lew Bryson > wrote:
> : "Bill Benzel" > wrote in message news:43ac14da$0$8468
> :> I may have to go to a Jack this year, order three combos and throw them
> :> in the trash. I want the balls.
> :
> : Y'know, you might wanna think about what that looks like to the rest of
> us.
>
> Lew, is there no Jack In The Box advertising in the East???

If there weren't no movies and TV-vision, or e.coli infections, we wouldn't
never have heard of Jack in the Box. But don't yew feel bad fer us'ns. Yew
got Yuengling out by yew? No, but yew done heard of it, ain't yew? Durn
right. That's cuz Yuengling is real quality. Now that I eddicated yew-all,
I'm gonna go back to rockin' my chair and smokin' my corncob, by crackee.

--
Lew Bryson

Their clothes are weird, their music sucks and they drink
malternatives. And now you tell me they probably don't think Sierra
Nevada is cool? This is what the passage of years does to you: It
makes everyone around you more stupid. -- Michael Stewart 6/24/02

www.lewbryson.com

In rec.food.drink.beer Lew Bryson > wrote:
: "Bill Benzel" > wrote in message news:43ac5c28$0$8452
:> In rec.food.drink.beer Lew Bryson > wrote:
:> : "Bill Benzel" > wrote in message news:43ac14da$0$8468
:> :> I may have to go to a Jack this year, order three combos and throw them
:> :> in the trash. I want the balls.
:> :
:> : Y'know, you might wanna think about what that looks like to the rest of
:> us.
:>
:> Lew, is there no Jack In The Box advertising in the East???
:
: If there weren't no movies and TV-vision, or e.coli infections, we wouldn't
: never have heard of Jack in the Box. But don't yew feel bad fer us'ns. Yew
: got Yuengling out by yew? No, but yew done heard of it, ain't yew? Durn
: right. That's cuz Yuengling is real quality. Now that I eddicated yew-all,
: I'm gonna go back to rockin' my chair and smokin' my corncob, by crackee.
:

Ah dew recall when Ah thunk Yuengling Porter was one of the best
'Merikkin beers I ever had. That wuz right about the time Ah discovered
a place called Khyber Pass down on Two Street -- the bartender at
lunchtime was a dude name o' Chris and he dun turned me on to that there
Eye Pee Ay from Yards -- he 'splayned it wuz dry-hopped in the keg and
told me Ah had to come back every day cuz it wuz a'changin' right there
in the keg and would smell and taste even better tomorrow.

--
Bill
AT DOT
reply to bbenzel adelphia net

In rec.food.drink.beer Bill Benzel > wrote:
:
: I may have to go to a Jack this year, order three combos and throw them
: in the trash. I want the balls.
:

It occurred to me that I had an alternative to trashing the food so I
popped into the local Jack, asked the lady bhind the register if I could
fund some meals for people who needed them, told her all I wanted was
to keep the balls.

She did it for me.

--
Bill
AT DOT
reply to bbenzel adelphia net