Lew Bryson > wrote:
>Cynical beer types have suggested that "Kostritzer" ain't making [Maibock],
>and that their new parent organization are just using the Kostritzer brand
>to ship a somewhat less than common beer type.

Which brewery do cynical beer types believe are brewing it?
--
Joel Plutchak "I'm in beer class / Every Thursday night"
- "Sinister Foxx", _Title TK_, The Breeders

Lew Bryson wrote:

> > I seem to remember that Carol Stoudt produces a very fine Maibock.
I
> > haven't encountered any since leaving PA but it should be a worthy
> > substitute.
>
> Bill, I like Carol, I like her head brewer Marc a lot, and I like
their
> Maibock, but...we're adults he it just ain't the Kostritzer. Not
even
> close.

Nicely put. German brewing may be in a state of decline,
but American brewing has a lot more INclining to do
before more than a scant few American beers can touch
the quality of their German role models. Particularly
in terms of malt character. I have never gotten a
satisfactory explanation for why our brewers can't
reproduce Germany malt character. The "Proprietary
Magical German Brewers' Gnomes" theory is still the
leading candidate. I think some intrepid beer writer
should investigate the matter more thoroughly.

> This is perhaps the 2nd-best maibock I've ever had, and what I'm
> remembering as the best was almost 20 years ago and was enjoyed on a
perfect
> night...which may be coloring my memory.

I remember being dazzled by Ayinger Maibock around
then. It was the first time I ever got that pure melanoidin
blast you only get from German bocks, and the experience
has never been duplicated since (including from subsequent
Ayingers).

> This is great beer.

Trader Joe's has carried the K=F6stritzer M=E4rzen; GOOD,
but not quite in the Munich league. But the Schwartzbier
proves that they know how to do malt, and the Maibock
sounds like one to be sought out. Do you know how
widely it's being distributed? Draft only?

"Jon Binkley" > wrote in message
>Trader Joe's has carried the Köstritzer Märzen; GOOD,
>but not quite in the Munich league. But the Schwartzbier
>proves that they know how to do malt, and the Maibock
>sounds like one to be sought out. Do you know how
>widely it's being distributed? Draft only?

Draft only, and not very widely at all. The kegs I had both came from a
wholesaler in western PA who had the beer for the whole state, and I haven't
talked to anyone else who's even seen it. Sorry.

--
Lew Bryson

"As for talking shit in this NG, Lew, you're the undisputed king, and
that's no SHITE." -- Bob Skilnik, 1/31/02

www.lewbryson.com

"Joris Pattyn" > wrote in message
-
> "Lew Bryson" > schreef in bericht
>> Warsteiner, believe it or don't. You know, Warsteiner is SO MUCH MORE a
>> likely brewer of a maibock than Kostritzer...
>
> Don't say it's impossible, but in that case, wouldn't Bitburger/Th. Simon
> not be more logical, as parent company? Or are Bitburger and Warsteiner
> already owned by the same conglomerate, these days? Wouldn't surprise me,
> at the speed it goes over there.

No, my mistake, it IS Bitburger. Thinking Bitburger and writing Warsteiner.
Sorry. I'm not going to say "Bitburger, Warsteiner, eh!" because I don't
really mean that... Thanks for the correction, Joris.


--
Lew Bryson

"GOOD or SHITE?" -- Michael Jackson, "Thriller", 1982
www.lewbryson.com

Scott Kaczorowski wrote:

> Didn't know Kostritzer made a Maibock. That's about
> as 180 from their flagship product (?) as they might
> get.

Only in terms of color. When it's on, the Schwartzbier
is one MALTY sumbitch. If the Maibock is half as malty
as that, it's one to be reckoned with. But then, you don't
"get" malt, do you?

> I'll go so
> far as to say that Bocks and Dopplebocks juice my
> lizard not.

WAB.

Say... didn't Bruels disappear just about the same time
Scott started connecting with his inner boof so publically?
Coincidence? Ha! That's what they said about Beercommie!

"Jon Binkley" > wrote in
news:1116961875.729848.249260
@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com:

> Scott Kaczorowski wrote:
>
>> Didn't know Kostritzer made a Maibock. That's
about
>> as 180 from their flagship product (?) as they
might
>> get.
>
> Only in terms of color.

KSchwartzbier == KMaibock 'cept for SRM?

> When it's on, the Schwartzbier
> is one MALTY sumbitch.

Not in my experience. When Kostritzer Schwartz is
on, it's dry, dark, medium-low body, and starkly
beautiful.

What do you mean by "MALTY"? Sweetness?
Body/mouthfeel?

If by "MALTY" you mean "lack of hops" then...maybe.
But I know you don't mean that.

> If the Maibock is half as malty
> as that, it's one to be reckoned with.

We can NOT be talking about the same two beers, so I
guess I'm Polish. A Maibock half as malty as
Kostrizer black would be Budweiser.

What am I missing?

> But then, you don't "get" malt, do you?

I love malt. Without malt I'd have to become a wine
snob.

If you imply that my complete and utter distaste for
a ****ing mess of a beer like Staropromen means I am
a hophead, you are mistaken.

>> I'll go so
>> far as to say that Bocks and Dopplebocks juice my
>> lizard not.
>
> WAB.

Yes.

> Say... didn't Bruels disappear just about the same
time
> Scott started connecting with his inner boof so
publically?

No. Knick is long gone. Do the deja. Report back.

> Coincidence? Ha! That's what they said about
Beercommie!

Me as John Sherman/Staradumsky? That is a true
insult. Lemme know when you start getting
threatening phone calls in the middle of the night
and I'll stop.

Dude (can I call you "Dude"?):

Lucky Baldwins (www.luckybaldwins.com) IPA
Festival: Saturday 18th June - Sunday, 26th June
2005.

Real Ale Fest 'Diego
(www.pizzaport.com/RealAle2005.html) Fri & Sat, June
10th & 11th, 2005!. Starting at 4 pm on Fri and 11
am on Saturday until closing both days!

Jackson and I are doing both. Ubercommander
Honeybunch is driving. Get your ass down here.


Scott

On Tue, 24 May 2005, Jon Binkley wrote:

> Lew Bryson wrote:
>
> > > I seem to remember that Carol Stoudt produces a very fine Maibock.
> I
> > > haven't encountered any since leaving PA but it should be a worthy
> > > substitute.
> >
> > Bill, I like Carol, I like her head brewer Marc a lot, and I like
> their
> > Maibock, but...we're adults he it just ain't the Kostritzer. Not
> even
> > close.
>
> Nicely put. German brewing may be in a state of decline,
> but American brewing has a lot more INclining to do
> before more than a scant few American beers can touch
> the quality of their German role models. Particularly
> in terms of malt character. I have never gotten a
> satisfactory explanation for why our brewers can't
> reproduce Germany malt character. The "Proprietary
> Magical German Brewers' Gnomes" theory is still the
> leading candidate. I think some intrepid beer writer
> should investigate the matter more thoroughly.
>

Dragging their heels on decoction mashing?

Scott Kaczorowski wrote:

> >> Didn't know Kostritzer made a Maibock. That's
> about
> >> as 180 from their flagship product (?) as they
> might
> >> get.
> >
> > Only in terms of color.
>
> KSchwartzbier == KMaibock 'cept for SRM?

I didn't imply "==" except for color. I implied "not 180
from" except for color. Actually, I have no bloody
idea what K. Maibock is like. For all I know it's jett black
and reeks of stale coffee, but let's ASSume for the sake
of virtually beating eachother about the face and neck
that it falls within the general specs of Maibocks we
are both familiar with.

> > When it's on, the Schwartzbier
> > is one MALTY sumbitch.
>
> Not in my experience. When Kostritzer Schwartz is
> on, it's dry, dark, medium-low body, and starkly
> beautiful.

Then either you haven't had it really "on", or you
really CAN'T taste malt. When Koestritzer Schwartz is
on, it's dry, MALTY, dark, medium-low body, and starkly
beautiful.

> What do you mean by "MALTY"? Sweetness?
> Body/mouthfeel?
>
> If by "MALTY" you mean "lack of hops" then...maybe.
> But I know you don't mean that.

I mean MALTY FLAVOR. That which the textbooks
tell us is imparted by a group of chemicals called
"melanoidins" produced in the mashing process
by reactions between amino acids and carbohydrates.
NOT sweet flavor. MALT flavor can come along with
sweetness, but it doesn't need to. My favorite maerzens
(all German) are not sweet, but they are very MALTY.
(Most American maerzens are not MALTY, but
are insipidly sweet.) Koestritzer Schwartzbier
is not sweet, but (when it's on) it's very MALTY.

> > If the Maibock is half as malty
> > as that, it's one to be reckoned with.
>
> We can NOT be talking about the same two beers, so I
> guess I'm Polish. A Maibock half as malty as
> Kostrizer black would be Budweiser.
>
> What am I missing?

MALT.

> > But then, you don't "get" malt, do you?
>
> I love malt. Without malt I'd have to become a wine
> snob.
>
> If you imply that my complete and utter distaste for
> a ****ing mess of a beer like Staropromen means I am
> a hophead, you are mistaken.

Not at all. Blindness to malt flavor does not automatically
a hophead make. But it might make one consider Staropramen
a ****ing mess of a beer.

> Dude (can I call you "Dude"?):

Call me anything but "late for dinner".

> Jackson and I are doing both. Ubercommander
> Honeybunch is driving. Get your ass down here.

Alas, June is already stocked to the gills with family
and work related travel. Some day, though... I'll bring
MALT.

Expletive Deleted wrote:

> > I have never gotten a
> > satisfactory explanation for why our brewers can't
> > reproduce Germany malt character. The "Proprietary
> > Magical German Brewers' Gnomes" theory is still the
> > leading candidate. I think some intrepid beer writer
> > should investigate the matter more thoroughly.
> >
>
> Dragging their heels on decoction mashing?

Apparently not. Many German brewers no longer decoct,
but still are able to produce fabulously malty beers with
careful step mashes. Why can't Yanks do it? It's gotta
be the Gnomes.

"Maillard Reaction Fan" > wrote in
oups.com:

> Scott Kaczorowski wrote:
>
>> >> Didn't know Kostritzer made a Maibock. That's
>> about
>> >> as 180 from their flagship product (?) as they
>> might
>> >> get.
>> >
>> > Only in terms of color.
>>
>> KSchwartzbier == KMaibock 'cept for SRM?
>
> I didn't imply "==" except for color.

Body, abv, ... though I agree that neither is hopped to large degree.

> I implied "not 180 from" except for color.

My bad.

> but let's ASSume for the sake
> of virtually beating eachother about the face and neck
> that it falls within the general specs of Maibocks we
> are both familiar with.

I ASSume we're not talking Cranberry Lambic here and that the basic
parameters of a Maibock are known outside of American brewpubs.

>> > When it's on, the Schwartzbier
>> > is one MALTY sumbitch.
>> [...]
>> What do you mean by "MALTY"? Sweetness?
>> Body/mouthfeel?
>>
>> If by "MALTY" you mean "lack of hops" then...maybe.
>> But I know you don't mean that.
>
> I mean MALTY FLAVOR.

Then I guess I've not had it both on tap and in bottles many, many times.
It's a dry, relatively low-gravity black beer. And I understand the
difference between body and sweetness. The former without the latter is a
feat of brewing that I have accomplished only rarely.

The flavor of the malt itself? I'll buy that - that's why we have
different kinds of malt.

I do not think of Kostritzer Schwartz as a malty beer. Flavorful, but not
malty. It certainly has more body and malt character than Bud,
but...malty? Not in my opinion, not Kostritzer. Schwartzbier ain't half
as "malty" (whatever that means) as Munich Dunkel which ain't half as
"malty" (whatever that means) as a Maibock.

> That which the textbooks
> tell us is imparted by a group of chemicals called
> "melanoidins"

In the case of the two beers at hand, Munich malt can be used in both as
can Pils malt. The former is high in melanoidins, the latter is not. Not
to wiggle, but I guess it can depend on the grain bill. Schwartzbier tends
(?) to use Munich as a base (and is therefore the less-malty cousin of
Munich Dunkel) and Hellesbock tends (?) to use Pils malt as a base (with
varying additions of Munich). Therefore (?), the Schwartz may have a
higher percentage of melanoidins vs. O/FG, but...

(Where's George Fix when you need him?)

Also, melanoidins aren't necessarily "malty". They can be toasty, bready,
.... Aromatic malt is a good thing to keep around, IMO.

Both styles use (or can use) Pils and/or Munich malt as a base. In the
case of Schwartzbier, there is a small addition of dark malt basically for
color only (hence the misnomer of a "black Pils").

So, short point long, I could get on board with "Schwartzbier has more malt
character than Hellesbock" but I wouldn't be thrilled about it. But
maltier? No way.

> produced in the mashing process
> by reactions between amino acids and carbohydrates.
> NOT sweet flavor.

If sweetness were maltiness on its own, MGD would be malty.

>> > If the Maibock is half as malty
>> > as that, it's one to be reckoned with.
>>
>> We can NOT be talking about the same two beers, so I
>> guess I'm Polish. A Maibock half as malty as
>> Kostrizer black would be Budweiser.
>>
>> What am I missing?
>
> MALT.

So you imply (?) that the Schwartzbier is (theoretically 'cause neither of
us has had the K'Mai) twice as malty as the Maibock. Huh.

What is a Schwartzbierish? 1048ish? A Maibockish has got to be what?
1070ish? How can the Schwartz be maltier than the Mai? Because of the
dark malt? By "malt flavor" do you mean "malt character"?

I "get" malt. I don't "get" you.

> Alas, June is already stocked to the gills with family
> and work related travel. Some day, though... I'll bring MALT.

50lb sacks, finished product... I have no preference.

Visit some time, you ****ing asshole. I'm not proud. I'll take lessons.
Jackson schools me all the time.


Scott

Scott Kaczorowski wrote:

> I do not think of Kostritzer Schwartz as a malty beer. Flavorful, but not
> malty. It certainly has more body and malt character than Bud,
> but...malty? Not in my opinion, not Kostritzer. Schwartzbier ain't half
> as "malty" (whatever that means) as Munich Dunkel which ain't half as
> "malty" (whatever that means) as a Maibock.

For whatever reason, I taste a strong MALTY flavor in well-kept,
draft Koestritzer Schwartzbier. Perhaps it's a difference in the
relative freshness of our samples, or in our relative sensitivities
to MALTY flavor. FWIW, I've never tasted MALTY flavor in bottled
Koestritzer, which I've always attributed to age or abuse.

> > That which the textbooks
> > tell us is imparted by a group of chemicals called
> > "melanoidins"
>
> In the case of the two beers at hand, Munich malt can be used in both as
> can Pils malt. The former is high in melanoidins, the latter is not.

Straight from the maltster, yes. But Pils malt is quite capable of
producing tons of melanoidins IN THE MASH, which is why
Munich Helles is so MALTY. Which is why the wonderful Czech
lagers you love to hate so much are so MALTY.

> (Where's George Fix when you need him?)

Probably discussing the matter with Anton Dreher.

> So, short point long, I could get on board with "Schwartzbier has more malt
> character than Hellesbock" but I wouldn't be thrilled about it. But
> maltier? No way.

Who said it was MALTIER? I simply said both were MALTY. My ideal
Hell**bock is MALTIER than my ideal Schwartzbier.

> >> We can NOT be talking about the same two beers, so I
> >> guess I'm Polish. A Maibock half as malty as
> >> Kostrizer black would be Budweiser.
> >>
> >> What am I missing?
> >
> > MALT.
>
> So you imply (?) that the Schwartzbier is (theoretically 'cause neither of
> us has had the K'Mai) twice as malty as the Maibock. Huh.

Jeebus. Are you sure you're not Nick????

No! Koestritzer Schwartz is MALTY. Maibocks should be MALTY.
If I had to put money on, I'm guessing the Maibock is MALTIER.

> What is a Schwartzbierish? 1048ish? A Maibockish has got to be what?
> 1070ish? How can the Schwartz be maltier than the Mai? Because of the
> dark malt? By "malt flavor" do you mean "malt character"?

I mean precisely MALT FLAVOR, and I never said the Schwartzbier
had more of it.

Let's get off Schwartzbier for now, and I'll answer a more generic
question: How can a 1048ish beer be "MALTIER" than a 1070ish beer?
The same way a 30ish IBU beer can be "HOPPIER" than a 70ish IBU
beer. SG only captures one narrow aspect of "MALTY", just as IBUs
only capture one narrow aspect of "HOPPY". Neither addresses FLAVOR,
which is the number one component in ones overall impression of
a beer. Hop flavor (as opposed to bitterness) depends on late-addition
flavor hops, not IBUs; a dry-hopped 30 IBU pale ale can have a ton more
HOP FLAVOR than a complex 70 IBU stout with no flavor or aroma hop
additions. Malt flavor (as opposed to body, sweetness, whatever)
depends on types and mash treatment of malts, not simple quantity
in the bill; a decocted 1048 Helles can have a ton more MALT FLAVOR
than an infusion mashed 1070 American "bock" (ack, ptui!).

> Visit some time, you ****ing asshole. I'm not proud. I'll take lessons.
> Jackson schools me all the time.

Ewww. I just had the most disgusting image flash through my mind.

"Jon Binkley" > wrote in message
> SG only captures one narrow aspect of "MALTY", just as IBUs
> only capture one narrow aspect of "HOPPY". Neither addresses FLAVOR,

Thought you'd like to know: I just went out and had this tattooed on my ass.
I plan to tattoo it on many dipshit beer geeks' asses before I die. Thank
you, Jon, I love you.

--
Lew Bryson

"As for talking shit in this NG, Lew, you're the undisputed king, and
that's no SHITE." -- Bob Skilnik, 1/31/02

www.lewbryson.com

Lew Bryson > wrote:
>"Jon Binkley" > wrote:
>> SG only captures one narrow aspect of "MALTY", just as IBUs
>> only capture one narrow aspect of "HOPPY". Neither addresses FLAVOR,
>
>Thought you'd like to know: I just went out and had this tattooed on my ass.
>I plan to tattoo it on many dipshit beer geeks' asses before I die.

Huh. I thought that's so obvious nobody would even
think twice about it.

>Thank you, Jon, I love you.

Get a room, you two.
--
Joel Plutchak "I'm in beer class / Every Thursday night"
- "Sinister Foxx", _Title TK_, The Breeders

Lew Bryson > wrote:
>"Jon Binkley" > wrote:
>> SG only captures one narrow aspect of "MALTY", just as IBUs
>> only capture one narrow aspect of "HOPPY". Neither addresses FLAVOR,
>
>Thought you'd like to know: I just went out and had this tattooed on my ass.
>I plan to tattoo it on many dipshit beer geeks' asses before I die.

Huh. I thought that's so obvious nobody would even
think twice about it.

>Thank you, Jon, I love you.

Get a room, you two.
--
Joel Plutchak "I'm in beer class / Every Thursday night"
- "Sinister Foxx", _Title TK_, The Breeders

"Joel" > wrote in message
...
> Lew Bryson > wrote:
>>"Jon Binkley" > wrote:
>>> SG only captures one narrow aspect of "MALTY", just as IBUs
>>> only capture one narrow aspect of "HOPPY". Neither addresses FLAVOR,
>>
>>Thought you'd like to know: I just went out and had this tattooed on my
>>ass.
>>I plan to tattoo it on many dipshit beer geeks' asses before I die.
>
> Huh. I thought that's so obvious nobody would even
> think twice about it.

It's for when I show my ass to beer geeks. I figure it shouldn't just be a
visual insult, they ought to learn something.

>>Thank you, Jon, I love you.
>
> Get a room, you two.

New car's got a big trunk, we can save some money.

--
Lew Bryson

"GOOD or SHITE?" -- Michael Jackson, "Thriller", 1982
www.lewbryson.com

"Jon Binkley" > wrote in
oups.com:

> Scott Kaczorowski wrote:
>
>> So, short point long, I could get on board with
>> "Schwartzbier has more malt character than Hellesbock" but
>> I wouldn't be thrilled about it. But maltier? No way.
>
> Who said it was MALTIER? I simply said both were MALTY.
> My ideal Hell**bock is MALTIER than my ideal Schwartzbier.

You said: "When it's on, the Schwartzbier is one MALTY sumbitch. If the
Maibock is half as malty as that, it's one to be reckoned with."

So I'm guilty of being too literal. So call me names or sumtin'.

Yeast and hops have less to do with the character of a Schwartzbier than
does the malt. Therefore, the character/flavor of a Schwartzbier is
dominated by malt. Is it MALTY? Not in my opinion.

> Jeebus. Are you sure you're not Nick????

Pretty sure. But I'll have to ask The Wife.

> How can a 1048ish beer be "MALTIER" than
> a 1070ish beer? The same way a 30ish IBU beer can be
> "HOPPIER" than a 70ish IBU beer.

Why then do we have the two terms "hoppy" and "bitter"?

> SG only captures one narrow aspect of "MALTY",

Agreed. "Consider the Tripel..."

> just as IBUs only capture one
> narrow aspect of "HOPPY". Neither addresses FLAVOR, which
> is the number one component in ones overall impression of
> a beer.

FLAVOR *is* important to beer.

(Have THAT tattooed on your other asscheek, Lew.)

In my mind, "malty" means lots of malt. Guinness draught is therefore not
malty, but it does of course have lots of MALT FLAVOR.

I've never heard anyone call a cask Special Bitter "hoppy", and yet I think
we can agree (?) that hops are an important component. Even though I can
detect hops in both the flavor and aroma, I wouldn't call a Special Bitter
"hoppy".

If something purports to be SPICY, then I believe that the amount of
spiciness should be on the high side rather than merely detectable.

Etc.

I don't think of SNPA as particularly malty, but Liberty is. Draught
Guinness is not, Guinness Export is (or, rather, was).

Etc.

> Malt
> flavor (as opposed to body, sweetness, whatever) depends on
> types and mash treatment of malts, not simple quantity in
> the bill;

I disagree with qualification: I think that OG/SG/FG is often relevant to
maltiness, but not exclusively so.

"Consider the Tripel..."

Certainly even small additions of the dreaded black patent can add a lot of
malt-derived flavor.

If I steeped some BP and added it to Coors Light, would that make the
BPoors Light "malty"? I'd say no. And yet it would have lots of MALT
FLAVOR, no?

> a decocted 1048 Helles can have a ton more MALT
> FLAVOR than an infusion mashed 1070 American "bock" (ack,
> ptui!).

A decoction of pils malt can lead to more complexity than a 152F single
infusion of GW pale...I won't argue.

By MALTY you mean MALT FLAVOR. I guess I distinguish between the two
terms. Guinness, in all its forms is MALTY to you, no?

I think "malty" means "lots o' malt". Barring adjuncts and somewhat
artificial (IMO) examples as above, I agree that a beer lower in gravity
can assert more malt character than one that is higher in gravity (base
malt, malt bill, rests/mash method, attenuation, etc. all play a part).

I think I "get" your point now. You and I could take GW pale ale malt (Or
DWC pils, or ???) and nothing more and turn out two completely different
beers. Same IBUs, same yeast, same OG...different beers. Both might be
uninspiring, but one would have more malt character/complexity/flavor than
the other.

I feel a project coming on...

Still...I would never call Kostritzer Schwartzbier "malty." MALT FLAVOR,
sure. MALTY, never.


Scott

"Scott Kaczorowski" > wrote in message
...

> Jackson and I are doing both.

We are?

-Steve

"Steve Jackson" > wrote in message
news:YiPne.13088$615.5192@trnddc08...
> "Scott Kaczorowski" > wrote in message
>> Jackson and I are doing both.
>
> We are?

You missed it, Steve: earlier he said you were doing each other.

Not that there's anything wrong with that...er, intrinsically.
Aesthetically, now, that's a whole different kettle of squid.
--
Lew Bryson

"As for talking shit in this NG, Lew, you're the undisputed king, and
that's no SHITE." -- Bob Skilnik, 1/31/02

www.lewbryson.com

"Steve Jackson" > wrote in
news:YiPne.13088$615.5192@trnddc08:

> "Scott Kaczorowski" > wrote in message
> ...
>
>> Jackson and I are doing both.
>
> We are?

Aren't we? Crap. I thought we were (doing both).

My mistake.


Scott

"Lew Bryson" > wrote in
m:

> "Steve Jackson" > wrote in
> message news:YiPne.13088$615.5192@trnddc08...
>> "Scott Kaczorowski" > wrote in
>> message
>>> Jackson and I are doing both.
>>
>> We are?
>
> You missed it, Steve: earlier he said you were doing each
> other.
>
> Not that there's anything wrong with that...er,
> intrinsically. Aesthetically, now, that's a whole different
> kettle of squid.

**** you.


Scott

"Scott Kaczorowski" > wrote in message
> "Lew Bryson" > wrote in
>> "Steve Jackson" > wrote in
>> message news:YiPne.13088$615.5192@trnddc08...
>>> "Scott Kaczorowski" > wrote in
>>> message
>>>> Jackson and I are doing both.
>>>
>>> We are?
>>
>> You missed it, Steve: earlier he said you were doing each
>> other.
>>
>> Not that there's anything wrong with that...er,
>> intrinsically. Aesthetically, now, that's a whole different
>> kettle of squid.
>
> **** you.

What, and join in your mad squid kettle games? I'll take a pass on that,
thanks. I'd rather drink these wonderful Czech lagers. They're worth going
someplace for.

--
Lew Bryson

"As for talking shit in this NG, Lew, you're the undisputed king, and
that's no SHITE." -- Bob Skilnik, 1/31/02

www.lewbryson.com

Lew Bryson wrote:

> "Scott Kaczorowski" > wrote in message
>
>>[...]
>>**** you.
>
> What, and join in your mad squid kettle games? [...]

Ah do believe ah done found me a new .sig.

Thanks to both of you.

Better yet, **** you both, and the squid you rode in on.
--
dgs
"What, and join in your mad squid kettle games?" -- Lew Bryson

Lew Bryson wrote:
>
> Aesthetically, now, that's a whole different kettle of squid.

Oh, these wacky microbrewery beer names! The beer may be old and poorly
made but gotta love the cartoon animal labels! (Altho' it is embarassing
sometimes. I recall a six pack of barley wine that didn't scan one day.
The cashier held up the pack and yelled across the store "Hey, what's
this Blithering Idiot?" AND EVERYONE LOOKED AT *ME*!.)

So, "Kettle of Squid"? Who brews it? What style? (Please just don't
tell me it's a variation of a true oyster stout...)

"Lew Bryson" > wrote in
om:

> "Scott Kaczorowski" > wrote in
> message
>> "Lew Bryson" > wrote in
>>> "Steve Jackson" > wrote
>>> in message news:YiPne.13088$615.5192@trnddc08...
>>>> "Scott Kaczorowski" > wrote in
>>>> message
>>>>> Jackson and I are doing both.
>>>>
>>>> We are?
>>>
>>> You missed it, Steve: earlier he said you were doing each
>>> other.
>>>
>>> Not that there's anything wrong with that...er,
>>> intrinsically. Aesthetically, now, that's a whole
>>> different kettle of squid.
>>
>> **** you.
>
> What, and join in your mad squid kettle games?

You think I'm baiting... Call me a fag, willya?

> I'd rather drink these wonderful
> Czech lagers. They're worth going someplace for.

Do tell. I'm assuming an article (something in addition to the
one online) has come out of the trip. Where might I find it?


Scott

"Scott Kaczorowski" > wrote in message
> You think I'm baiting... Call me a fag, willya?

Lighten up, Francis.

>> I'd rather drink these wonderful
>> Czech lagers. They're worth going someplace for.
>
> Do tell. I'm assuming an article (something in addition to the
> one online) has come out of the trip. Where might I find it?

Not. I got back from the trip to find that my co-writer at BeverAge had
pre-empted me with a piece on several small imported labels, Czech/Budvar
among them -- one market shot -- and Philadelphia Style, my other planned
market, canned me last month for unspecified reasons. So I'm on my own site
for now, until I inevitably find another market.

--
Lew Bryson

God Bless America.
"They that can give up essential Liberty to obtain a little temporary safety
deserve neither Liberty nor safety." Benjamin Franklin, 1759.

"Lew Bryson" > wrote in
:

> "Scott Kaczorowski" > wrote in
> message
>> You think I'm baiting... Call me a fag, willya?
>
> Lighten up, Francis.

Apparently I just can't do that.

(BTW, I prefer Little Frannie Poo. Or Angel Claws. Your
choice.)

>>> I'd rather drink these wonderful
>>> Czech lagers. They're worth going someplace for.
>>
>> Do tell. I'm assuming an article (something in addition
>> to the one online) has come out of the trip. Where might
>> I find it?
>
> Not. I got back from the trip to find that my co-writer at
> BeverAge had pre-empted me with a piece on several small
> imported labels,

Did you beat him (?) senseless? I hope so. I'd imagined that
an article from you was forthcoming and I was looking forward to
reading it (!sarcasm).

> Czech/Budvar among them -- one market shot
> -- and Philadelphia Style, my other planned market, canned
> me last month for unspecified reasons. So I'm on my own
> site for now, until I inevitably find another market.

Have you ever considered LA? No, I'd guess not...

On that note, I'm hearing that Richmond Bar and Grill in El
Segundo (immediately south of LAX) is worth checking out. They
seem to be a loyal Stone house if nothing else. Haven't done so
yet, but will get there sooner than later.

So: I'm thinking about going to the Richmond Bar and Grill in
El Segundo, CA just for the beer. Thoughts?


Scott

"Scott Kaczorowski" > wrote in message
> "Lew Bryson" > wrote in
>> Lighten up, Francis.
>
> Apparently I just can't do that.
>
> (BTW, I prefer Little Frannie Poo. Or Angel Claws. Your
> choice.)

My vet suggested castration when my dog couldn't calm down...castrating the
dog, that is. I submit this as a data point only.

> So: I'm thinking about going to the Richmond Bar and Grill in
> El Segundo, CA just for the beer. Thoughts?

Starting small is a good way to work out your bigger problems with beer
travel. I say Yes!

--
Lew Bryson

"As for talking shit in this NG, Lew, you're the undisputed king, and
that's no SHITE." -- Bob Skilnik, 1/31/02

www.lewbryson.com

Lew Bryson > wrote:
:
:> So: I'm thinking about going to the Richmond Bar and Grill in
:> El Segundo, CA just for the beer. Thoughts?
:
: Starting small is a good way to work out your bigger problems with beer
: travel. I say Yes!
:

And review it for us -- I have 90 minutes to drive just to get up to
Long Beach so I really wanna know if it's worth the additional half
hour.

--
Bill
AT DOT
reply to bbenzel adelphia net

"Lew Bryson" > wrote in
:

> "Scott Kaczorowski" > wrote in
> message
>>
>> So: I'm thinking about going to the Richmond Bar and
>> Grill in El Segundo, CA just for the beer. Thoughts?
>
> Starting small is a good way to work out your bigger
> problems with beer travel. I say Yes!

Heh!

I love beer travel. I've just never had a Czech beer I
thought was worth travelling for. Which, of course, is
(admittedly (and just right then)) a limitation of my lack of
travel to the CR.


Scott

(Bill Benzel) wrote in
:

> Lew Bryson > wrote:
>:
>:> So: I'm thinking about going to the Richmond Bar and
>:> Grill in El Segundo, CA just for the beer. Thoughts?
>:
>: Starting small is a good way to work out your bigger
>: problems with beer travel. I say Yes!
>
> And review it for us -- I have 90 minutes to drive just to
> get up to Long Beach so I really wanna know if it's worth
> the additional half hour.

Roger on the review.

But if you want to do the 2 hours, I'd pick a visit to Cafe
Boogaloo (in the relative-same neighborhood as Richmond) and I'm
*certain* CB will meet your expectations.

Or...come on up for the Lucky Baldwin's IPA Fest (6/18 - 6/26).

I can put you up (couch or tent - your choice) if need be.

I'm pretty sure I will be down for the Real Ale Fest. I'm not
going to make the trip by myself...but I have a primary and a
backup and even a tertiary...so...I hope to make it. And if I
do you can give me grief in person.


Scott

Scott Kaczorowski > wrote:
: (Bill Benzel) wrote in
: :
:
:> Lew Bryson > wrote:
:>:
:>:> So: I'm thinking about going to the Richmond Bar and
:>:> Grill in El Segundo, CA just for the beer. Thoughts?
:>:
:>: Starting small is a good way to work out your bigger
:>: problems with beer travel. I say Yes!
:>
:> And review it for us -- I have 90 minutes to drive just to
:> get up to Long Beach so I really wanna know if it's worth
:> the additional half hour.
:
: Roger on the review.
:
: But if you want to do the 2 hours, I'd pick a visit to Cafe
: Boogaloo (in the relative-same neighborhood as Richmond) and I'm
: *certain* CB will meet your expectations.
:
: Or...come on up for the Lucky Baldwin's IPA Fest (6/18 - 6/26).
:
: I can put you up (couch or tent - your choice) if need be.
:
: I'm pretty sure I will be down for the Real Ale Fest. I'm not
: going to make the trip by myself...but I have a primary and a
: backup and even a tertiary...so...I hope to make it. And if I
: do you can give me grief in person.
:
:

I'm going to have limited time at the fest this weekend -- probably 4 to
about 6:30 Friday and then 11 to 3 or so on Saturday -- old-fart, curly
gray hair, glasses, -- if you know Dr. Bill or the Long BEach Bum either
of them can point you to me.

Thanks for the invite -- Pasadena always feels like a major trip for us
-- no easy way arround the congestion -- one of these days we'll get up
to LBs -- also want to find our way to the Stuffed Sandwich.

We'll try CB next time through the area.

--
Bill
AT DOT
reply to bbenzel adelphia net

(Bill Benzel) wrote in
:

> Scott Kaczorowski > wrote:
>: (Bill Benzel) wrote in
>: :
>:
>:> Lew Bryson > wrote:
>:>:
>:>:> So: I'm thinking about going to the Richmond Bar and
>:>:> Grill in El Segundo, CA just for the beer. Thoughts?
>:>:
>:>: Starting small is a good way to work out your bigger
>:>: problems with beer travel. I say Yes!
>:>
>:> And review it for us -- I have 90 minutes to drive just
>:> to get up to Long Beach so I really wanna know if it's
>:> worth the additional half hour.
>:
>: Roger on the review.

A small, local pub. Decorated in the style of Chili's ("Beware
Pickpockets and Loose Women", "Beauty is in the Eye of the
Beerholder", "What are you looking at Numbskull?" [sic] (a Stone
promo sign), "If you're drinking to forget...PLEASE PAY IN ADVANCE!
[sic]", "Rule number 1: The female makes the rules..." The
backbar has a Bud Man neon front and center. The Steam neon at
upper right of the bar? Not even powered up...

Stupid shit like that, and lots of it. And, lots of v intage/repro
metal soda signs. And, it's a small place with much of the wall
opposite the bar made up of mirrors (a lame trick if ever there was
one) instead of wood (which is otherwise evident).

Beers on tap (in order, left to right, looking at Bud Man):

Coors Light
Budweiser
Arrogant *******
Liberty Ale
Red Car IPA
Ale Smith Anvil
Firestone Pale Ale
Beamish stout

I would say that that's actually not a bad selection for the number
of taps. SoCal beers represented, a archetype you don't see as
often as you should, the money-maker or two...

I had the Bad Dog: Allegedly a "4-Alarm" chili dog...If this was
4-Alarm chili, the entry-level Stagg-in-a-box is 10**3**3 alarm
chili. Boring, dull, and then it was bland. Might have made a
decent loose meat sandwich. Beef/pork/chicken (I honestly have no
idea) in a tomato-based sauce with zero spicing as far as I could
tell.

But the dog itself was *fabulous*. Not snappy like some on the
East Coast might look for, but big (d = 1") and meaty and fried
(which I prefer over boiling).

I would say it's not worth your drive, but I will also say that I
absolutely will go back.

There are tables and booths, and none are too close together - I
approve. There is also a patio area at the rear and I approve of
that as well.

It's a local(s) pub. And in that way it is a true pub. Everyone
knew everyone else. The bar is tended by a husband and wife team,
and I like to see that.

It's in an interesting (in a good way) neighborhood. Old brick and
mature ficus. I'm not completely comfortable making the analogy,
but the neighborhood reminded me of that in which Bridgeport lives.
Industrial, and then there's industrial, and then...Turn! Here!
Now! And lo! - there is a gem of an oldenish main street.

> I'm going to have limited time at the fest this weekend --
> probably 4 to about 6:30 Friday and then 11 to 3 or so on
> Saturday

I'll look for you. I think we've met (I invoke the name of
Hollenbeck...)

I know you by name, and I think I met you at QUAFF Anza Borrego one
year. You're welcome in my home. But give me a day or two
notice...

> Thanks for the invite -- Pasadena always feels like a major
> trip for us --

Pasadena is a good place for beer. A Gordon Biersch certainly not
the equal of the original in San Jose, but still the best I'm aware
of down'ere. Great patio, great food. And then...Lucky Baldwin's.
Crown City. Bonaventure on the way to/from...

It's also a good way to make a day of it: Huntington
Gardens/Library, Gamble House, Vintage Lighting store off Myrtle,
Vintage Hardware, OH! The Craftsman style! I love beer, but the
miles and miles of restored Craftsmans...I could spend hours just
driving at 20mph.

Could? ****. I have.

> no easy way arround the congestion -- one of
> these days we'll get up to LBs -- also want to find our way
> to the Stuffed Sandwich.

2 hours (x2) can be precious hours.

> We'll try CB next time through the area.

Highest recommendation. And...you can also do more than just the
CB. A pier with a view of the entire South Bay (PV to Malibu) is
within a block, art galleries, a comedy club, a couple brewpubs
(Manhattan Beach Brewing Co., Redondo Beach Brewing Co. - average
at best but you can bag 'em if you're into that), Naja's...


Scott

FYI, a (small) rotating group of homebrewers have a standing meeting
there Wednesdays at 1pm (ish). One guy walks and a couple ride bikes
along the beach bike path to El Segundo (the R B&G is inland a bit, but
not much) and some drive. Feel free to join us.

Cheers,

Fred Waltman
www.FranconiaBeerGuide.com
Marina del Rey, CA

Scott Kaczorowski wrote:
> (Bill Benzel) wrote in
> :
>
> > Scott Kaczorowski > wrote:
> >: (Bill Benzel) wrote in
> >: :
> >:
> >:> Lew Bryson > wrote:
> >:>:
> >:>:> So: I'm thinking about going to the Richmond Bar and
> >:>:> Grill in El Segundo, CA just for the beer. Thoughts?
> >:>:
> >:>: Starting small is a good way to work out your bigger
> >:>: problems with beer travel. I say Yes!
> >:>
> >:> And review it for us -- I have 90 minutes to drive just
> >:> to get up to Long Beach so I really wanna know if it's
> >:> worth the additional half hour.
> >:
> >: Roger on the review.
>
> A small, local pub. Decorated in the style of Chili's ("Beware
> Pickpockets and Loose Women", "Beauty is in the Eye of the
> Beerholder", "What are you looking at Numbskull?" [sic] (a Stone
> promo sign), "If you're drinking to forget...PLEASE PAY IN ADVANCE!
> [sic]", "Rule number 1: The female makes the rules..." The
> backbar has a Bud Man neon front and center. The Steam neon at
> upper right of the bar? Not even powered up...
>
> Stupid shit like that, and lots of it. And, lots of v intage/repro
> metal soda signs. And, it's a small place with much of the wall
> opposite the bar made up of mirrors (a lame trick if ever there was
> one) instead of wood (which is otherwise evident).
>
> Beers on tap (in order, left to right, looking at Bud Man):
>
> Coors Light
> Budweiser
> Arrogant *******
> Liberty Ale
> Red Car IPA
> Ale Smith Anvil
> Firestone Pale Ale
> Beamish stout
>
> I would say that that's actually not a bad selection for the number
> of taps. SoCal beers represented, a archetype you don't see as
> often as you should, the money-maker or two...
>
> I had the Bad Dog: Allegedly a "4-Alarm" chili dog...If this was
> 4-Alarm chili, the entry-level Stagg-in-a-box is 10**3**3 alarm
> chili. Boring, dull, and then it was bland. Might have made a
> decent loose meat sandwich. Beef/pork/chicken (I honestly have no
> idea) in a tomato-based sauce with zero spicing as far as I could
> tell.
>
> But the dog itself was *fabulous*. Not snappy like some on the
> East Coast might look for, but big (d = 1") and meaty and fried
> (which I prefer over boiling).
>
> I would say it's not worth your drive, but I will also say that I
> absolutely will go back.
>
> There are tables and booths, and none are too close together - I
> approve. There is also a patio area at the rear and I approve of
> that as well.
>
> It's a local(s) pub. And in that way it is a true pub. Everyone
> knew everyone else. The bar is tended by a husband and wife team,
> and I like to see that.
>

Scott Kaczorowski > wrote:
:
: FWIW, thanks for not snipping my "review". I just re-read it
: and it was unnecessarily harsh. I like that place a lot.
:

I don't think so -- it sounded to me like you thought the chili was lame
but everything else was OK -- you also said you'd go back.

--
Bill
AT DOT
reply to bbenzel adelphia net