Beer (rec.drink.beer) Discussing various aspects of that fine beverage referred to as beer. Including interesting beers and beer styles, opinions on tastes and ingredients, reviews of brewpubs and breweries & suggestions about where to shop.

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #41 (permalink)   Report Post  
Joel
 
Posts: n/a
Default

In article >, dgs > wrote:
>Craig Bergren wrote:
>> [...]
>> Corn is a new world grain, a post-columbian import to Asia and Europe.
>> Thus Miller is more American because it uses American ingredients.

>
>It uses *an* ingredient that was native to the Americas. Rice is grown
>in the USA. It has become an American crop, thus an American
>ingredient. If you don't think so, then that makes the vast majority
>of Americans "not American" for the same reason.


Vast majority? I'd guess if you go back far enough there
would be no such thing as a "native American."

>Wanna guess where barley comes from, then? And wheat?


Cargill.
--
Joel Plutchak "Never try to teach a pig to sing; it wastes
plutchak at [...] your time and it annoys the pig." -anonymous
  #42 (permalink)   Report Post  
Joel
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Craig Bergren > wrote:
>On Sun, 12 Dec 2004 20:27:25 -0800, dgs wrote:
>I never wrote
>that Bud was un-American, only that Miller is more American. If we take
>into consideration hops, Bud is loses even more All American points
>because not only do they use more grains that didn't originate in the US,
>they use hops that aren't even grown here.


That makes the unstated presumption that Miller only
uses US-grown hops. Is that true?
Incidentally, I've used Elk Mountain Saaz in my homebrew.
grown in Idaho (izzat correct, Lew?) on an A-B owned hop
farm.
--
Joel Plutchak "Never try to teach a pig to sing; it wastes
plutchak at [...] your time and it annoys the pig." -anonymous
  #43 (permalink)   Report Post  
Joel
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Craig Bergren > wrote:
>On Sun, 12 Dec 2004 20:27:25 -0800, dgs wrote:
>I never wrote
>that Bud was un-American, only that Miller is more American. If we take
>into consideration hops, Bud is loses even more All American points
>because not only do they use more grains that didn't originate in the US,
>they use hops that aren't even grown here.


That makes the unstated presumption that Miller only
uses US-grown hops. Is that true?
Incidentally, I've used Elk Mountain Saaz in my homebrew.
grown in Idaho (izzat correct, Lew?) on an A-B owned hop
farm.
--
Joel Plutchak "Never try to teach a pig to sing; it wastes
plutchak at [...] your time and it annoys the pig." -anonymous
  #44 (permalink)   Report Post  
Joel
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Craig Bergren > wrote:
>On Sun, 12 Dec 2004 20:27:25 -0800, dgs wrote:
>I never wrote
>that Bud was un-American, only that Miller is more American. If we take
>into consideration hops, Bud is loses even more All American points
>because not only do they use more grains that didn't originate in the US,
>they use hops that aren't even grown here.


That makes the unstated presumption that Miller only
uses US-grown hops. Is that true?
Incidentally, I've used Elk Mountain Saaz in my homebrew.
grown in Idaho (izzat correct, Lew?) on an A-B owned hop
farm.
--
Joel Plutchak "Never try to teach a pig to sing; it wastes
plutchak at [...] your time and it annoys the pig." -anonymous
  #45 (permalink)   Report Post  
Joel
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Lew Bryson > wrote:
>"dgs" > wrote in message
>> That's a pretty neat trick, since Miller uses mainly corn syrup (and
>> some brewer's corn), and the corn syrup is mainly sugar, so it ferments
>> out fairly cleanly. If you taste "corn" flavors in beer, it's due to
>> something else.

>
>Don't tell Joel, he's sure he tastes corn in S*iner B*ck.


Bite me, big guy.

Yeah, Miller tastes very clean to me-- I did a side
by side of Miller and Bud when Da Bears played home
games down here and that was the only beer they sold in
the stadium. No corn flavor in Miller at all, but the
Bud had that nasty taste (I'm insensitive to acetaldehyde
per se but do get it as a slightly "off" flavor).
Shiner (and Rolling Rock) simply *screams* corn to
my acetaldehyde-impaired palate.
--
Joel Plutchak "Never try to teach a pig to sing; it wastes
plutchak at [...] your time and it annoys the pig." -anonymous


  #46 (permalink)   Report Post  
Joel
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Lew Bryson > wrote:
>"dgs" > wrote in message
>> That's a pretty neat trick, since Miller uses mainly corn syrup (and
>> some brewer's corn), and the corn syrup is mainly sugar, so it ferments
>> out fairly cleanly. If you taste "corn" flavors in beer, it's due to
>> something else.

>
>Don't tell Joel, he's sure he tastes corn in S*iner B*ck.


Bite me, big guy.

Yeah, Miller tastes very clean to me-- I did a side
by side of Miller and Bud when Da Bears played home
games down here and that was the only beer they sold in
the stadium. No corn flavor in Miller at all, but the
Bud had that nasty taste (I'm insensitive to acetaldehyde
per se but do get it as a slightly "off" flavor).
Shiner (and Rolling Rock) simply *screams* corn to
my acetaldehyde-impaired palate.
--
Joel Plutchak "Never try to teach a pig to sing; it wastes
plutchak at [...] your time and it annoys the pig." -anonymous
  #47 (permalink)   Report Post  
Craig Bergren
 
Posts: n/a
Default

On Mon, 13 Dec 2004 14:42:47 +0000, Joel wrote:

> Craig Bergren > wrote:
>>On Sun, 12 Dec 2004 20:27:25 -0800, dgs wrote: I never wrote
>>that Bud was un-American, only that Miller is more American. If we take
>>into consideration hops, Bud is loses even more All American points
>>because not only do they use more grains that didn't originate in the US,
>>they use hops that aren't even grown here.

>
> That makes the unstated presumption that Miller only
> uses US-grown hops. Is that true?
> Incidentally, I've used Elk Mountain Saaz in my homebrew.
> grown in Idaho (izzat correct, Lew?) on an A-B owned hop farm.


It's reasonable to assume that Miller uses domestic hops. I didn't find
any evidence that they were buying a significant portion (8%) of an entire
country's (Czech Republic) production as is the case with Bud.




  #48 (permalink)   Report Post  
Craig Bergren
 
Posts: n/a
Default

On Mon, 13 Dec 2004 14:42:47 +0000, Joel wrote:

> Craig Bergren > wrote:
>>On Sun, 12 Dec 2004 20:27:25 -0800, dgs wrote: I never wrote
>>that Bud was un-American, only that Miller is more American. If we take
>>into consideration hops, Bud is loses even more All American points
>>because not only do they use more grains that didn't originate in the US,
>>they use hops that aren't even grown here.

>
> That makes the unstated presumption that Miller only
> uses US-grown hops. Is that true?
> Incidentally, I've used Elk Mountain Saaz in my homebrew.
> grown in Idaho (izzat correct, Lew?) on an A-B owned hop farm.


It's reasonable to assume that Miller uses domestic hops. I didn't find
any evidence that they were buying a significant portion (8%) of an entire
country's (Czech Republic) production as is the case with Bud.




  #49 (permalink)   Report Post  
Expletive Deleted
 
Posts: n/a
Default



On Fri, 10 Dec 2004, Craig Bergren wrote:

> On Thu, 09 Dec 2004 18:10:49 -0800, mainunderdawg wrote:
>
> > I know many of you may shun these, but for us beer drinkers with budgets,
> > what do you say? It's hard to say, but I think I prefer budweiser.

>
>
> Bud is brewed with rice, Miller with corn. This makes Miller the more
> American of the two because corn comes from America while rice is an
> Asian import. I think the taste you like in Bud is the flavor of the
> beechwood aging. Some people think they can taste the corn in Miller,
> while the rice contributes practically no taste at all to Bud. Both are
> about 90% fermentable, contributing alcohol while adding practically
> nothing to the body.
>
> As far as freshness goes, both Bud and Miller are quite religious about
> removing out of date beer from distributors and retailers. What
> constitutes old? Beer that is 120 days old.
>
> When it comes to my favorite, it's Blatz. It has a skunk taste just like
> Heineken and Becks.
>
>
> -CB
>


Pay attention, cus that's a good troll!
  #50 (permalink)   Report Post  
Expletive Deleted
 
Posts: n/a
Default



On Fri, 10 Dec 2004, Craig Bergren wrote:

> On Thu, 09 Dec 2004 18:10:49 -0800, mainunderdawg wrote:
>
> > I know many of you may shun these, but for us beer drinkers with budgets,
> > what do you say? It's hard to say, but I think I prefer budweiser.

>
>
> Bud is brewed with rice, Miller with corn. This makes Miller the more
> American of the two because corn comes from America while rice is an
> Asian import. I think the taste you like in Bud is the flavor of the
> beechwood aging. Some people think they can taste the corn in Miller,
> while the rice contributes practically no taste at all to Bud. Both are
> about 90% fermentable, contributing alcohol while adding practically
> nothing to the body.
>
> As far as freshness goes, both Bud and Miller are quite religious about
> removing out of date beer from distributors and retailers. What
> constitutes old? Beer that is 120 days old.
>
> When it comes to my favorite, it's Blatz. It has a skunk taste just like
> Heineken and Becks.
>
>
> -CB
>


Pay attention, cus that's a good troll!


  #51 (permalink)   Report Post  
Expletive Deleted
 
Posts: n/a
Default



On Sat, 11 Dec 2004 wrote:

> Expletive Deleted wrote:
> >
> > Rather than spend $12 on a
> > 12pack of nasty beer every pay day, I spend $12 on a mixed sixer of really
> > good beer.

>
> Geez, buying single bottles of beer because you're "on a budget" makes
> about as much sense as "rent to own".
>
> Instead of paying $12 for 6 beers a day, why not skip a day and buy 24
> bottles of beer every other day for $24-30? If it's variety you crave


re-read that.
If I could afford $12 worth of beer every day that's not much of a limited
budget is it? I said $12 worth of beer every pay day, that's every 2
weeks.

> (as long as you don't DRINK 12 bottles per day) before you know it
> you'll have a good supply of great beer that hasn't sat around for who
> knows how long under the bright lights of the typical "beer" store that
> sells singles.
>


Yea, if I was really spending that much, then sure I could buy a couple
cases a week and save alot while amassing an impressive cellar full of
variety, but I'm spending on average less than $40 a month, closer to
$25-30 a month.
And yes, I do like variety and am willing to pay a premium for it.
Also, I know my local bottle shop very well and I know how long those
singles are sitting there. I've been in there 2-3 times a month for the
last 3 years.
Finally, paying $12 for a mixed sixer is not significantly more than
paying $8-9 for a whole sixer of one beer. As I said, I'm willing to pay
the premium for getting variety. I find that when I get a whole sixer, I
get kinda bored with the beer after the 2-3 days it takes me to finish it
off.
  #52 (permalink)   Report Post  
Expletive Deleted
 
Posts: n/a
Default



On Sat, 11 Dec 2004 wrote:

> Expletive Deleted wrote:
> >
> > Rather than spend $12 on a
> > 12pack of nasty beer every pay day, I spend $12 on a mixed sixer of really
> > good beer.

>
> Geez, buying single bottles of beer because you're "on a budget" makes
> about as much sense as "rent to own".
>
> Instead of paying $12 for 6 beers a day, why not skip a day and buy 24
> bottles of beer every other day for $24-30? If it's variety you crave


re-read that.
If I could afford $12 worth of beer every day that's not much of a limited
budget is it? I said $12 worth of beer every pay day, that's every 2
weeks.

> (as long as you don't DRINK 12 bottles per day) before you know it
> you'll have a good supply of great beer that hasn't sat around for who
> knows how long under the bright lights of the typical "beer" store that
> sells singles.
>


Yea, if I was really spending that much, then sure I could buy a couple
cases a week and save alot while amassing an impressive cellar full of
variety, but I'm spending on average less than $40 a month, closer to
$25-30 a month.
And yes, I do like variety and am willing to pay a premium for it.
Also, I know my local bottle shop very well and I know how long those
singles are sitting there. I've been in there 2-3 times a month for the
last 3 years.
Finally, paying $12 for a mixed sixer is not significantly more than
paying $8-9 for a whole sixer of one beer. As I said, I'm willing to pay
the premium for getting variety. I find that when I get a whole sixer, I
get kinda bored with the beer after the 2-3 days it takes me to finish it
off.
  #53 (permalink)   Report Post  
Expletive Deleted
 
Posts: n/a
Default



On Sat, 11 Dec 2004 wrote:

> Expletive Deleted wrote:
> >
> > Rather than spend $12 on a
> > 12pack of nasty beer every pay day, I spend $12 on a mixed sixer of really
> > good beer.

>
> Geez, buying single bottles of beer because you're "on a budget" makes
> about as much sense as "rent to own".
>
> Instead of paying $12 for 6 beers a day, why not skip a day and buy 24
> bottles of beer every other day for $24-30? If it's variety you crave


re-read that.
If I could afford $12 worth of beer every day that's not much of a limited
budget is it? I said $12 worth of beer every pay day, that's every 2
weeks.

> (as long as you don't DRINK 12 bottles per day) before you know it
> you'll have a good supply of great beer that hasn't sat around for who
> knows how long under the bright lights of the typical "beer" store that
> sells singles.
>


Yea, if I was really spending that much, then sure I could buy a couple
cases a week and save alot while amassing an impressive cellar full of
variety, but I'm spending on average less than $40 a month, closer to
$25-30 a month.
And yes, I do like variety and am willing to pay a premium for it.
Also, I know my local bottle shop very well and I know how long those
singles are sitting there. I've been in there 2-3 times a month for the
last 3 years.
Finally, paying $12 for a mixed sixer is not significantly more than
paying $8-9 for a whole sixer of one beer. As I said, I'm willing to pay
the premium for getting variety. I find that when I get a whole sixer, I
get kinda bored with the beer after the 2-3 days it takes me to finish it
off.
  #54 (permalink)   Report Post  
Lew Bryson
 
Posts: n/a
Default

"Steve Jackson" > wrote in message
news:Fubvd.2634
> And as for that, those Czech hops represent a pretty small proportion of

the
> hops A-B uses. They have massive hop fields in Idaho (I think it's Idaho -
> Lew?) where the overwhelming bulk of their hops originate.


Y'know, for a change, I'm gonna stay out of this. I just got the smell of
urine out of my keyboard from the last one of these...
--
Lew Bryson
"I do not at all resent criticism, even when, for the sake of emphasis, it
for a time parts company with reality." -- Winston S. Churchill
www.lewbryson.com
Author of "New York Breweries," and "Pennsylvania Breweries," 2nd ed.,
available at
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/AS...4/sr=1-2/103-7
272174-3121415


  #55 (permalink)   Report Post  
Lew Bryson
 
Posts: n/a
Default

"Steve Jackson" > wrote in message
news:Fubvd.2634
> And as for that, those Czech hops represent a pretty small proportion of

the
> hops A-B uses. They have massive hop fields in Idaho (I think it's Idaho -
> Lew?) where the overwhelming bulk of their hops originate.


Y'know, for a change, I'm gonna stay out of this. I just got the smell of
urine out of my keyboard from the last one of these...
--
Lew Bryson
"I do not at all resent criticism, even when, for the sake of emphasis, it
for a time parts company with reality." -- Winston S. Churchill
www.lewbryson.com
Author of "New York Breweries," and "Pennsylvania Breweries," 2nd ed.,
available at
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/AS...4/sr=1-2/103-7
272174-3121415




  #56 (permalink)   Report Post  
Craig Bergren
 
Posts: n/a
Default

On Mon, 13 Dec 2004 20:22:28 +0000, Lew Bryson wrote:

> "Steve Jackson" > wrote in message
> news:Fubvd.2634
>> And as for that, those Czech hops represent a pretty small proportion of

> the
>> hops A-B uses. They have massive hop fields in Idaho (I think it's Idaho
>> - Lew?) where the overwhelming bulk of their hops originate.

>
> Y'know, for a change, I'm gonna stay out of this.


Since when was 8% overwhelming. I suppose if it is contrasted to all
other sources, Elk Mountain is the largest source, still it produces less
than 8% of the hops used by AB. I couldn't find any figures on how much of
it is Saaz, but they harvested approximately 1.5 million pounds which
is about 2 times the Saaz they bought from the Czech republic, but still
only 8% of AB total hop usage.


http://www.czhops.cz/stats2003.html

http://www.beertravelers.com/lists/hopfarms.html
  #57 (permalink)   Report Post  
Craig Bergren
 
Posts: n/a
Default

On Mon, 13 Dec 2004 20:22:28 +0000, Lew Bryson wrote:

> "Steve Jackson" > wrote in message
> news:Fubvd.2634
>> And as for that, those Czech hops represent a pretty small proportion of

> the
>> hops A-B uses. They have massive hop fields in Idaho (I think it's Idaho
>> - Lew?) where the overwhelming bulk of their hops originate.

>
> Y'know, for a change, I'm gonna stay out of this.


Since when was 8% overwhelming. I suppose if it is contrasted to all
other sources, Elk Mountain is the largest source, still it produces less
than 8% of the hops used by AB. I couldn't find any figures on how much of
it is Saaz, but they harvested approximately 1.5 million pounds which
is about 2 times the Saaz they bought from the Czech republic, but still
only 8% of AB total hop usage.


http://www.czhops.cz/stats2003.html

http://www.beertravelers.com/lists/hopfarms.html
  #58 (permalink)   Report Post  
Steve Jackson
 
Posts: n/a
Default

"Craig Bergren" > wrote in message
news
> On Sun, 12 Dec 2004 23:26:18 -0800, Steve Jackson wrote:
>
>> "Craig Bergren" > wrote in message
>> news >>
>>> Rice originates from somewhere near Thailand. It was first grown in the
>>> United States on large plantations in the Carolinas (Carolina Golden).
>>> The North American slave trade was based on acquisition of labor to
>>> cultivate rice, Africans having natural immunity to malaria that white
>>> endentured servants from Europe lacked.

>>
>> I'm wondering where you got the info. Isn't malaria still more than a
>> little problematic in sub-Saharan Africa? And I was under the impression
>> that cotton supplied more of the demand for slave labor than anything
>> else. But I'm far from an expert on either point, so my impressions could
>> be way off.

>
> Where did I say Africans were immune to malaria?


Go exactly seven lines of text above that question. "The North American
slave trade was based on acquisition of labor to cultivate rice, Africans
having natural immunity to malaria that white endentured servants from
Europe lacked.

> I said they were the
> basis of the slave trade, imported to work the swamps in the Carlolinas
> because they were more resistant to malaria. They were also more resistant
> to yellow fever. These beliefs may not be real, but the importers of the
> slaves certainly thought they were true at the time. Cotton was also a
> demand for slaves, but the trade was already well established by the
> earlier rice plantations. It wasn't until introduction of the cotton
> gin that cotton began to replace rice and rice cultivation moved to
> Louisiana, Texas, and Arkansas. Certainly when this country was founded,
> rice was king in the deep south with indigo a close second.


And now that you mention this, the fog's lifting a bit from that corner of
my brain. IIRC, the cotton gin and resultant increase in cotton cultivation
sparked a revivial of sorts in the slave trade and upped demand for slaves.

> Please speak for yourself. I didn't say that Bud is un-American, only
> that Miller is more American than Bud. Not only does Miller use
> ingredients that are grown in the US, they use ingredients that are
> indigenous to the US. Bud not only uses foreign grown hops, their grain
> bill is completely of imported varieties of grain. After all, what could
> be more Irish than the potato. The answer is Guinness!


I'm not even sure what you're getting at, but doesn't Guinness use English
hops? That's hardly "Irish" under your accounting of what makes something
worthy of a nation-of-origin adjective.

>
>> pasta Chinese, because they came up with the noodle long before the
>> Italians. We don't say that hamburgers aren't very American because
>> cattle aren't native to the Western Hemisphere. We don't say that
>> Hershey's is

>
> I would never say that hamburgers, or for that matter, hot dogs are not
> American.


Hamburgers come from beef, which comes from cattle, which are not indigenous
to the United States. Hot dogs are typically made from pork, which is a
different species than the wild boars present in North America and come from
elsewhere. Under your definitions, hamburgers and hot dogs are not American.
Which is just daft.

> However, I would say that corn flakes are more American than
> either. Nothing is more American than the BATF.


You're good at that non-sequiter thing.

>
>> really more Mexican than anything, since that's where Europeans
>> discovered
>> chocolate, or that Starbucks is more Colombian than American.
>>

>
> Every educated American knows that the best chocolate is Belgian or Swiss
> and Starbucks is communist, the worst thing an American can be.


Starbucks is communist? Yes, I guess so, seeing as how the rampant
capitalist spread of cookie-cutter shops to every corner of the earth is one
of the centerpieces of Marx's writing.

-Steve


  #59 (permalink)   Report Post  
Steve Jackson
 
Posts: n/a
Default

"Craig Bergren" > wrote in message
news
> On Sun, 12 Dec 2004 23:26:18 -0800, Steve Jackson wrote:
>
>> "Craig Bergren" > wrote in message
>> news >>
>>> Rice originates from somewhere near Thailand. It was first grown in the
>>> United States on large plantations in the Carolinas (Carolina Golden).
>>> The North American slave trade was based on acquisition of labor to
>>> cultivate rice, Africans having natural immunity to malaria that white
>>> endentured servants from Europe lacked.

>>
>> I'm wondering where you got the info. Isn't malaria still more than a
>> little problematic in sub-Saharan Africa? And I was under the impression
>> that cotton supplied more of the demand for slave labor than anything
>> else. But I'm far from an expert on either point, so my impressions could
>> be way off.

>
> Where did I say Africans were immune to malaria?


Go exactly seven lines of text above that question. "The North American
slave trade was based on acquisition of labor to cultivate rice, Africans
having natural immunity to malaria that white endentured servants from
Europe lacked.

> I said they were the
> basis of the slave trade, imported to work the swamps in the Carlolinas
> because they were more resistant to malaria. They were also more resistant
> to yellow fever. These beliefs may not be real, but the importers of the
> slaves certainly thought they were true at the time. Cotton was also a
> demand for slaves, but the trade was already well established by the
> earlier rice plantations. It wasn't until introduction of the cotton
> gin that cotton began to replace rice and rice cultivation moved to
> Louisiana, Texas, and Arkansas. Certainly when this country was founded,
> rice was king in the deep south with indigo a close second.


And now that you mention this, the fog's lifting a bit from that corner of
my brain. IIRC, the cotton gin and resultant increase in cotton cultivation
sparked a revivial of sorts in the slave trade and upped demand for slaves.

> Please speak for yourself. I didn't say that Bud is un-American, only
> that Miller is more American than Bud. Not only does Miller use
> ingredients that are grown in the US, they use ingredients that are
> indigenous to the US. Bud not only uses foreign grown hops, their grain
> bill is completely of imported varieties of grain. After all, what could
> be more Irish than the potato. The answer is Guinness!


I'm not even sure what you're getting at, but doesn't Guinness use English
hops? That's hardly "Irish" under your accounting of what makes something
worthy of a nation-of-origin adjective.

>
>> pasta Chinese, because they came up with the noodle long before the
>> Italians. We don't say that hamburgers aren't very American because
>> cattle aren't native to the Western Hemisphere. We don't say that
>> Hershey's is

>
> I would never say that hamburgers, or for that matter, hot dogs are not
> American.


Hamburgers come from beef, which comes from cattle, which are not indigenous
to the United States. Hot dogs are typically made from pork, which is a
different species than the wild boars present in North America and come from
elsewhere. Under your definitions, hamburgers and hot dogs are not American.
Which is just daft.

> However, I would say that corn flakes are more American than
> either. Nothing is more American than the BATF.


You're good at that non-sequiter thing.

>
>> really more Mexican than anything, since that's where Europeans
>> discovered
>> chocolate, or that Starbucks is more Colombian than American.
>>

>
> Every educated American knows that the best chocolate is Belgian or Swiss
> and Starbucks is communist, the worst thing an American can be.


Starbucks is communist? Yes, I guess so, seeing as how the rampant
capitalist spread of cookie-cutter shops to every corner of the earth is one
of the centerpieces of Marx's writing.

-Steve


  #60 (permalink)   Report Post  
Craig Bergren
 
Posts: n/a
Default

On Mon, 13 Dec 2004 19:49:41 -0800, Steve Jackson wrote:

> "Craig Bergren" > wrote in message
> news
>> On Sun, 12 Dec 2004 23:26:18 -0800, Steve Jackson wrote:
>>



>> After all, what could
>> be more Irish than the potato. The answer is Guinness!

>
> I'm not even sure what you're getting at, but doesn't Guinness use English
> hops? That's hardly "Irish" under your accounting of what makes something
> worthy of a nation-of-origin adjective.


Some of their hops come from the UK, but I would guess that more come from
America than the UK. That, however, does not make a Guinness more
American than the potato.

http://www.greensbeverages.com/guinness.html Over 600
tonnes are used by the Guinness brewery each year, almost 1% of the world
crop, these are mainly sourced from the USA, Austrailia the UK and
Germany; Golding are the main variety.

The comparison is between two things not native to Ireland. English
Porter and potatoes. Potatoes come from South America, Porter comes from
England. Even though they've been growing potatoes for roughly 500 years,
they've been growing barley since the neolithic period (roughly 5000
years) and they've been making Guinness for 245 years (since 1759) and the
Irish did put some creative work into morphing the London Porter into Dry
Irish Stout, Guinness, but not much into the potato.

Therefore Guinness is more Irish than the potato.

>> Nothing is more American than the BATF.

>
> You're good at that non-sequiter thing.
>
>


I'm not the one who brought hamburgers, chocolate, and coffee into this
discussion!

What's more American than tobacco, alcohol and firearms?

> Starbucks is communist? Yes, I guess so, seeing as how the rampant
> capitalist spread of cookie-cutter shops to every corner of the earth is
> one of the centerpieces of Marx's writing.
>


You're right, my bad, since 9-11 the worst thing for an American to be is
French. Starbucks is French, the worst thing an American can be.

CB



  #61 (permalink)   Report Post  
Scott Kaczorowski
 
Posts: n/a
Default

"Lew Bryson" > wrote in
news
Prodigy? They're still there? That's cool. No sarcasm
intended.

>> > Some people think they can taste the corn in Miller,

>>
>> That's a pretty neat trick, since Miller uses mainly corn
>> syrup (and some brewer's corn),


No, stick with the former. Miller uses only corn syrup. No
actual corn to be seen. They actually have a "hot shed" that
they can pull the rail cars full of "dextrose" through. The
whole thing (corn syrup, the tank it's in, the rail car it
sits on, etc.) are all heated to 90F so that the syrup is
more viscous (oh, carp [sic]...less viscous...flows more,
like, better).

>> and the corn syrup is
>> mainly sugar, so it ferments out fairly cleanly. If you
>> taste "corn" flavors in beer, it's due to something else.


Wha...!? Can you say PreProPils?

Of course, corn-ish flavors can be the result of poor
process. But corn, if used intentionally, can certainly
contribute to flavor and aroma.

> Don't tell Joel, he's sure he tastes corn in S*iner B*ck.


You can't? That falls into the "Seriously?" category.


Scott Kaczorowski
Seal Beach, CA


> www.lewbryson.com


Heh! I LOVE it!

How are things with you, Lew? I hope they are well.
  #62 (permalink)   Report Post  
Scott Kaczorowski
 
Posts: n/a
Default

"Lew Bryson" > wrote in
news
Prodigy? They're still there? That's cool. No sarcasm
intended.

>> > Some people think they can taste the corn in Miller,

>>
>> That's a pretty neat trick, since Miller uses mainly corn
>> syrup (and some brewer's corn),


No, stick with the former. Miller uses only corn syrup. No
actual corn to be seen. They actually have a "hot shed" that
they can pull the rail cars full of "dextrose" through. The
whole thing (corn syrup, the tank it's in, the rail car it
sits on, etc.) are all heated to 90F so that the syrup is
more viscous (oh, carp [sic]...less viscous...flows more,
like, better).

>> and the corn syrup is
>> mainly sugar, so it ferments out fairly cleanly. If you
>> taste "corn" flavors in beer, it's due to something else.


Wha...!? Can you say PreProPils?

Of course, corn-ish flavors can be the result of poor
process. But corn, if used intentionally, can certainly
contribute to flavor and aroma.

> Don't tell Joel, he's sure he tastes corn in S*iner B*ck.


You can't? That falls into the "Seriously?" category.


Scott Kaczorowski
Seal Beach, CA


> www.lewbryson.com


Heh! I LOVE it!

How are things with you, Lew? I hope they are well.
  #63 (permalink)   Report Post  
Scott Kaczorowski
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Craig Bergren > wrote in
news
> Now you are attributing ideas to me that I didn't think. I
> never wrote that Bud was un-American, only that Miller is
> more American. If we take into consideration hops, Bud is
> loses even more All American points because not only do
> they use more grains that didn't originate in the US, they
> use hops that aren't even grown here.


I get your first point (hops grown in the US v. those that
are not). Bud makes a big deal (or did) out of using Saazer.
At <13IBU you can't taste 'em...so who gives a ****? Blow
200 semis through Willamette and buy all the second-grade
Cascade you can find. Bud's chemists will find a way...

Re Miller. The following is from my June 14, 1997 visit to
Miller Irwindale with Master Brewer...Oh, let's call him
'Brewer G'. The words are mine, not his (brackets are added
specifically for this post):

<<<
HOPS

Miller uses many more varieties of hops than I would have
guessed.
Included are Galena, Cluster, Mt. Hood, and Cascade. None
are leaf [err, flower], some are in pellet form, but most of
the hops used are in the form of
extracts, which, unfortunately, were not labeled as to
variety.

Some of the boxes containing hop pellets were labelled "de-
bittered". I
asked "Brewer G" if these were the fabled hop hearts, but he
had no idea what
I was talking about. I guess he doesn't watch as much TV as
I do. But
I suspect that these were them. It was interesting to note
that alpha
acid ratings were printed on the non-"de-bittered" boxes, but
there was
no alpha rating on the boxes in question. The de-bittered
pellets
themselves had no aroma whatsoever [though the ambient temp
was ~40F so, duh].
>>>



Scott Kaczorowski
Seal Beach, CA
  #64 (permalink)   Report Post  
Scott Kaczorowski
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Craig Bergren > wrote in
news
> Now you are attributing ideas to me that I didn't think. I
> never wrote that Bud was un-American, only that Miller is
> more American. If we take into consideration hops, Bud is
> loses even more All American points because not only do
> they use more grains that didn't originate in the US, they
> use hops that aren't even grown here.


I get your first point (hops grown in the US v. those that
are not). Bud makes a big deal (or did) out of using Saazer.
At <13IBU you can't taste 'em...so who gives a ****? Blow
200 semis through Willamette and buy all the second-grade
Cascade you can find. Bud's chemists will find a way...

Re Miller. The following is from my June 14, 1997 visit to
Miller Irwindale with Master Brewer...Oh, let's call him
'Brewer G'. The words are mine, not his (brackets are added
specifically for this post):

<<<
HOPS

Miller uses many more varieties of hops than I would have
guessed.
Included are Galena, Cluster, Mt. Hood, and Cascade. None
are leaf [err, flower], some are in pellet form, but most of
the hops used are in the form of
extracts, which, unfortunately, were not labeled as to
variety.

Some of the boxes containing hop pellets were labelled "de-
bittered". I
asked "Brewer G" if these were the fabled hop hearts, but he
had no idea what
I was talking about. I guess he doesn't watch as much TV as
I do. But
I suspect that these were them. It was interesting to note
that alpha
acid ratings were printed on the non-"de-bittered" boxes, but
there was
no alpha rating on the boxes in question. The de-bittered
pellets
themselves had no aroma whatsoever [though the ambient temp
was ~40F so, duh].
>>>



Scott Kaczorowski
Seal Beach, CA
  #65 (permalink)   Report Post  
Scott Kaczorowski
 
Posts: n/a
Default


> What's more American than tobacco, alcohol and firearms?


BATF, sure. An arm of the American govt.

But...alcohol: Invented 12 hours after someone added water
to honey (**** the "who's first?" wine/beer debate). You've
never had breakfast in Bavaria, have you? Firearms? Not
invented in the US, but certainly embraced (I personally own
five - two handguns and three rifles). Tobacco - My
understanding is that the tobacco plant is indigenous to
north America, but I'm willing to be wrong.
Smoking?...Europe has taken the concept and run with it.

American? C'mon. I'll give you #2 (firearms). The other
two...what are you on about?


Scott Kaczorowski
Seal Beach, CA



  #66 (permalink)   Report Post  
Scott Kaczorowski
 
Posts: n/a
Default


> What's more American than tobacco, alcohol and firearms?


BATF, sure. An arm of the American govt.

But...alcohol: Invented 12 hours after someone added water
to honey (**** the "who's first?" wine/beer debate). You've
never had breakfast in Bavaria, have you? Firearms? Not
invented in the US, but certainly embraced (I personally own
five - two handguns and three rifles). Tobacco - My
understanding is that the tobacco plant is indigenous to
north America, but I'm willing to be wrong.
Smoking?...Europe has taken the concept and run with it.

American? C'mon. I'll give you #2 (firearms). The other
two...what are you on about?


Scott Kaczorowski
Seal Beach, CA

  #67 (permalink)   Report Post  
Scott Kaczorowski
 
Posts: n/a
Default


> What's more American than tobacco, alcohol and firearms?


BATF, sure. An arm of the American govt.

But...alcohol: Invented 12 hours after someone added water
to honey (**** the "who's first?" wine/beer debate). You've
never had breakfast in Bavaria, have you? Firearms? Not
invented in the US, but certainly embraced (I personally own
five - two handguns and three rifles). Tobacco - My
understanding is that the tobacco plant is indigenous to
north America, but I'm willing to be wrong.
Smoking?...Europe has taken the concept and run with it.

American? C'mon. I'll give you #2 (firearms). The other
two...what are you on about?


Scott Kaczorowski
Seal Beach, CA

  #68 (permalink)   Report Post  
Craig Bergren
 
Posts: n/a
Default

On Thu, 16 Dec 2004 12:56:09 -0500, Scott Kaczorowski wrote:

>
> No, stick with the former. Miller uses only corn syrup. No actual corn
> to be seen.


Totally in keeping the the All American business process of outsourcing.
Why convert your own corn starch to sugar when you can outsource the
process to ADM? It's shame that shipping costs prohibit moving the
process to India.


  #69 (permalink)   Report Post  
Lew Bryson
 
Posts: n/a
Default

"Scott Kaczorowski" > wrote in message
> "Lew Bryson" > wrote in
> Prodigy? They're still there? That's cool. No sarcasm
> intended.


Nah, they got bought by SBC Yahoo, but we still have the addresses, for
which I'm thankful. Beats changing it, even with the spam. The address is
essentially a fossil.

> > Don't tell Joel, he's sure he tastes corn in S*iner B*ck.

>
> You can't? That falls into the "Seriously?" category.


Do I taste something in Shiner that tastes like corn on the cob or cornbread
or grits or cornmeal? No. Do I taste another sweet, vaguely grainy flavor
that I think Joel (and you, evidently) thinks is corn? Yes.

> > www.lewbryson.com

>
> Heh! I LOVE it!


So does my Mom.

> How are things with you, Lew? I hope they are well.


Pretty good, actually. 2004 is shaping up to have been my best year ever for
writing income, by a strong margin, and my marriage and family are great.
How's by you?

--
Lew Bryson

www.LewBryson.com
Author of "New York Breweries" and "Pennsylvania Breweries," 2nd ed., both
available at <www.amazon.com>
The Hotmail address on this post is for newsgroups only: I don't check it,
or respond to it. Spam away.


  #70 (permalink)   Report Post  
Lew Bryson
 
Posts: n/a
Default

"Scott Kaczorowski" > wrote in message
> "Lew Bryson" > wrote in
> Prodigy? They're still there? That's cool. No sarcasm
> intended.


Nah, they got bought by SBC Yahoo, but we still have the addresses, for
which I'm thankful. Beats changing it, even with the spam. The address is
essentially a fossil.

> > Don't tell Joel, he's sure he tastes corn in S*iner B*ck.

>
> You can't? That falls into the "Seriously?" category.


Do I taste something in Shiner that tastes like corn on the cob or cornbread
or grits or cornmeal? No. Do I taste another sweet, vaguely grainy flavor
that I think Joel (and you, evidently) thinks is corn? Yes.

> > www.lewbryson.com

>
> Heh! I LOVE it!


So does my Mom.

> How are things with you, Lew? I hope they are well.


Pretty good, actually. 2004 is shaping up to have been my best year ever for
writing income, by a strong margin, and my marriage and family are great.
How's by you?

--
Lew Bryson

www.LewBryson.com
Author of "New York Breweries" and "Pennsylvania Breweries," 2nd ed., both
available at <www.amazon.com>
The Hotmail address on this post is for newsgroups only: I don't check it,
or respond to it. Spam away.




  #71 (permalink)   Report Post  
E. Carl Speros
 
Posts: n/a
Default

  #72 (permalink)   Report Post  
E. Carl Speros
 
Posts: n/a
Default

  #73 (permalink)   Report Post  
E. Carl Speros
 
Posts: n/a
Default

  #74 (permalink)   Report Post  
E. Carl Speros
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Reply
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules

Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
CBN Evening Brews [email protected] Beer 0 18-04-2008 05:59 AM
Remembering Some Strange Old Brews Phxbrd Beer 3 05-05-2005 09:55 AM
Brews of herbs and spices Phred General Cooking 0 30-11-2004 12:59 PM


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 10:48 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2004-2024 FoodBanter.com.
The comments are property of their posters.
 

About Us

"It's about Food and drink"