I'll beat this dead horse again, I have been beating this dead horse
since the mid-1990's and I will keep on beating this dead horse until
there is nothing left. With this, I will not point fingers directly at
anyone, just ask questions. Any and all industry folk please chime in.
Who is to blame?

The brewer or importer? A few actually buy back stale beer. Freshness
dates vary from brewery to brewery. Some don't use any kind of
freshness dating.

The distributor? Some have been know to watch their stock carefully
and others will sell last years like it is this year's brew.

The retailer? This is critical mass here for the consumer, the make or
break point for everyone. Two-year-old O-fest is not a good thing even
if it has been sitting in the cooler. Brewpubs serving Maibock in
July? O-fest in Dec?

The consumer? A handful of beer geeks know what to look for, but
getting burned is still a problem. Novice beer drinkers don't have a
clue so education is a must.

The government? Alcohol is deemed a drug so beer is on the short end
of the stick to start with. We would not buy milk, bread or eggs past
their prime right?

http://beeradvocate.com/smack/archives/2007/08/1049804

I can tell you it's probably not the brewer, as:
a) beer is freshest at the brewery;
b) breweries get beer out the door as fast as humanly possible(usually
space considerations, not too mention cash flow;
c) breweries WANT beer to be consumed at it's freshest-moist others on
the list could give a rat's ass.

I would tend to place blame on the retailer, as this is where beer does
not get rotated, and, especially in the case of package beer, beer sits
longest at room temp(displays, hot shelf, etc).

"Frank Mancuso" > wrote in message
t...

>I can tell you it's probably not the brewer, as:
> a) beer is freshest at the brewery;
> b) breweries get beer out the door as fast as humanly possible(usually
> space considerations, not too mention cash flow;
> c) breweries WANT beer to be consumed at it's freshest-moist others on the
> list could give a rat's ass.
>
> I would tend to place blame on the retailer, as this is where beer does
> not get rotated, and, especially in the case of package beer, beer sits
> longest at room temp(displays, hot shelf, etc).

You forgot the distributor (in the typical three-tier system anyway).

I've had stale/oxidized/sour beer that was purely the fault of the
distributor not pulling product that shouldn't have made it to the
final point of sale.

Distributors also should be the ones pulling retail product that's
past stale dates, but if the retail product is placed past the stale
date anyway...
--
dgs

On Jul 31, 11:06 pm, "
> wrote:
> I'll beat this dead horse again, I have been beating this dead horse
> since the mid-1990's and I will keep on beating this dead horse until
> there is nothing left. With this, I will not point fingers directly at
> anyone, just ask questions. Any and all industry folk please chime in.
> Who is to blame?
>
> The brewer or importer? A few actually buy back stale beer. Freshness
> dates vary from brewery to brewery. Some don't use any kind of
> freshness dating.
>
> The distributor? Some have been know to watch their stock carefully
> and others will sell last years like it is this year's brew.
>
> The retailer? This is critical mass here for the consumer, the make or
> break point for everyone. Two-year-old O-fest is not a good thing even
> if it has been sitting in the cooler. Brewpubs serving Maibock in
> July? O-fest in Dec?
>
> The consumer? A handful of beer geeks know what to look for, but
> getting burned is still a problem. Novice beer drinkers don't have a
> clue so education is a must.
>


Clearly the consumer is in control here. If consumers are willing to
roll the dice by purchasing beer with no bottling date then they have
themselves to blame if the beer ends up being 1 year old. The problem
will be resolved quickly if they patronize only those brewers willing
to display a meaningful date.

However, I think it is safe to say that this is a non-issue for the
vast majority of beer drinkers.

"John S." > schreef in bericht
ups.com...
> On Jul 31, 11:06 pm, "
> > wrote:
>> I'll beat this dead horse again, I have been beating this dead horse
>> since the mid-1990's and I will keep on beating this dead horse until
>> there is nothing left. With this, I will not point fingers directly at
>> anyone, just ask questions. Any and all industry folk please chime in.
>> Who is to blame?
>>
>> The brewer or importer? A few actually buy back stale beer. Freshness
>> dates vary from brewery to brewery. Some don't use any kind of
>> freshness dating.
>>
>> The distributor? Some have been know to watch their stock carefully
>> and others will sell last years like it is this year's brew.
>>
>> The retailer? This is critical mass here for the consumer, the make or
>> break point for everyone. Two-year-old O-fest is not a good thing even
>> if it has been sitting in the cooler. Brewpubs serving Maibock in
>> July? O-fest in Dec?
>>
>> The consumer? A handful of beer geeks know what to look for, but
>> getting burned is still a problem. Novice beer drinkers don't have a
>> clue so education is a must.
>>
>
>
> Clearly the consumer is in control here. If consumers are willing to
> roll the dice by purchasing beer with no bottling date then they have
> themselves to blame if the beer ends up being 1 year old. The problem
> will be resolved quickly if they patronize only those brewers willing
> to display a meaningful date.
>
> However, I think it is safe to say that this is a non-issue for the
> vast majority of beer drinkers.
>

Correction: the consumer OUGHT to be in control. However, by mentioning
something completely inane as a "best before date", the consumer has no idea
whatsoever. There's only one date which is important: the bottling date
(kegging date, OK, in the specific cases). No idea how it is on the "West"
side of the pond, but in the EU, this is forbidden by law. "Morons" doesn't
come near...

On 2007-08-01, Frank Mancuso > wrote:
> I can tell you it's probably not the brewer, as:
> a) beer is freshest at the brewery;
> b) breweries get beer out the door as fast as humanly possible(usually
> space considerations, not too mention cash flow;
> c) breweries WANT beer to be consumed at it's freshest-moist others on
> the list could give a rat's ass.
>
> I would tend to place blame on the retailer, as this is where beer does
> not get rotated, and, especially in the case of package beer, beer sits
> longest at room temp(displays, hot shelf, etc).

I agree, especially microbrewers. Most have not the resources for
major stockpiling.

What to do? I just called the brewer and let them know I got hold of
a couple crappy sixers, knowing they make very good beer. The crappy
one's came from a chain-marketer, yet I always get good stuff from the
small time retailer around the corner with a high turnaround (I'm
their biggest customer . In short.... complain!

nb

On Aug 1, 3:34 pm, "Joris Pattyn" > wrote:
> "John S." > schreef in oglegroups.com...
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Jul 31, 11:06 pm, "
> > > wrote:
> >> I'll beat this dead horse again, I have been beating this dead horse
> >> since the mid-1990's and I will keep on beating this dead horse until
> >> there is nothing left. With this, I will not point fingers directly at
> >> anyone, just ask questions. Any and all industry folk please chime in.
> >> Who is to blame?
>
> >> The brewer or importer? A few actually buy back stale beer. Freshness
> >> dates vary from brewery to brewery. Some don't use any kind of
> >> freshness dating.
>
> >> The distributor? Some have been know to watch their stock carefully
> >> and others will sell last years like it is this year's brew.
>
> >> The retailer? This is critical mass here for the consumer, the make or
> >> break point for everyone. Two-year-old O-fest is not a good thing even
> >> if it has been sitting in the cooler. Brewpubs serving Maibock in
> >> July? O-fest in Dec?
>
> >> The consumer? A handful of beer geeks know what to look for, but
> >> getting burned is still a problem. Novice beer drinkers don't have a
> >> clue so education is a must.
>
> > Clearly the consumer is in control here. If consumers are willing to
> > roll the dice by purchasing beer with no bottling date then they have
> > themselves to blame if the beer ends up being 1 year old. The problem
> > will be resolved quickly if they patronize only those brewers willing
> > to display a meaningful date.
>
> > However, I think it is safe to say that this is a non-issue for the
> > vast majority of beer drinkers.
>
> Correction: the consumer OUGHT to be in control. However, by mentioning
> something completely inane as a "best before date", the consumer has no idea
> whatsoever. There's only one date which is important: the bottling date
> (kegging date, OK, in the specific cases). No idea how it is on the "West"
> side of the pond, but in the EU, this is forbidden by law. "Morons" doesn't
> come near...- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

I was NOT suggesting a best-before-date, but a bottled on date. And
the consumer can be in control. If this is perceived of as a
signficant problem by enough beer drinkers then it's resolution is
indeed very simple and it is in their control. Just buy beer from
brewers that properly mark their beer. The non-complying beer makers
will adjust or go out of business.

OTOH, if only a few beer drinkers see this as a problem then they can
do one of two things:
1. Continue drinking many brands of beer with the understanding that
they will lilkely encounter some old beer.
2. Switch to beer from brewers that date their beer properly.

Joris Pattyn wrote:
> However, by mentioning
> something completely inane as a "best before date", the consumer has no idea
> whatsoever. There's only one date which is important: the bottling date
> (kegging date, OK, in the specific cases). No idea how it is on the "West"
> side of the pond, but in the EU, this is forbidden by law. "Morons" doesn't
> come near...
>

I have no problem with "Best By" *as long* as I know how many months the
brewer allows for that period.

Funny you should mention European vs. US dates, because in the US the
majority of imported Euro-brands (the ones I check most often are
Pilsner Urquell, Jever and UK brands like Young's and Fullers) that are
dated have a "Best by" date and seem to give their beers 1 YEAR from
bottling/canning, which is WAY to much for those beers. (The last of the
Young's beers from the Ram Brewery that still sit on the shelf near me,
for instance, have "Best by" dates of Aug. or Sept. '07- and the brewery
closed in Sept. 2006.) By comparison, most US brewers, even the
industrial light lagers "Big 3" only give their beers 3-4 months before
the pull date.

Another problem, tho', with "Best By" is that some drinkers mis-read it
as "This will kill you after..."- when, obviously, it's a recommendation
to drink the beer within the "Best" period and that after it, while it
may not be "Best", it's still "OK" to drink and enjoy. Obviously, most
retailers don't read or care about the dates, since one can easily find
out-of-date beers on the shelf of both the corner liquor store and the
some of the best craft beer-centric retailers. It's no longer old,
stale beer- it's pre-cellared!