somewhat dry. Somewhat disappointed in that, but I'll keep working til I
get it right.

Ended up getting just a flat, cut from the full packer, although theire
"full" brisket wasn't very big, maybe 8lbs tops? The flat portion I got was
just about 6lbs. Mixed a rub(ok, I didn't stay simple, but figured what the
heck, I'd try something *g*) of kosher salt, cracked pepper, garlic and
onion powder, a little chili powder, some sugar in the raw, and... um...
coffee. I dunno, I saw it done on one of the shows on tv, I think BBQ
University, and figured what the heck, I'll give it a try. I do have to say
this, the outside of the brisket, with that particular rub... damn that was
good!

Got some oak off my neighbor. Started up the GOSM at about 4:30am, but for
some reason it took forever for it to come up to temp. I need to check my
door thermometer again, as I know it's a bit low, but I think it's even
lower than I originally thought. Put the brisket on at around 5:30, water
and apple juice in the water pan. That big chunk of oak that I used lasted
the entire cook, and still isn't completely charred through I don't think.

It took a full 12hrs for the internal temp to reach 190... I tested it a
couple of times with a fork even as low as 170, and still seemed pretty
tough to get the fork in. Have to say, when it hit the 190 mark, left it
there just a little longer, and the fork slid right in.

Wrapped it double in aluminum foil, then in towels, then into a cooler for
about an hour. When I cut it, some juices ran, but not a lot. VERY tender,
much different than my previous attempts at doing brisket... more tender
than most roasts I've had. But like I said in the beginning, seemed pretty
dry.

I'm wondering now if I cooked it at too low a temp, for too long? I know
juices ran out while cooking as I put a pan of baked beans in underneath and
caught what "dropped" in them. Definitely added great flavor to the beans.
*g*

Any suggestions as to why it came out so dry though?

Thanks!!!

"Piedmont" > wrote in message
...
> 43fan wrote:
> snip
>> Any suggestions as to why it came out so dry though?
>>
>> Thanks!!!
>>
>>
> The flat section is the leanest cut of the packer, best to use a full,
> untrimmed packer. Or, at least trimmed with at least 1/4 inch fat cap.
> Other than that you did good!
>
> Or, I soak my packer cuts in Walter Jetton Mop for three days and you'll
> never have a dry brisket ever!
>
> http://web.infoave.net/~amwil/discursion.htm#Walter
>

Thanks! It had a pretty good cap on it, I trimmed just one section where
the fat was about 3/4" thick, trimmed it down to about 1/4". I didn't mop
it at all during the cook, tried to keep my fingers off actually, keep the
door closed and the heat in. *g* Hadn't thought of soaking it prior though.
Any reason ever to inject???


> --
> Regards,
>
> Piedmont
>
> The Practical Bar-B-Q'r at: http://web.infoave.net/~amwil/Index.htm
>
> What difference does it make to the dead, the orphans and the homeless,
> whether the mad destruction is wrought under the name of totalitarianism
> or the holy name of liberty or democracy?
>
> Mahatma Gandhi, "Non-Violence in Peace and War"
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

"Piedmont" > wrote in message
...
> 43fan wrote:
> snip
>> Got some oak off my neighbor. Started up the GOSM at about 4:30am, but
>> for
> snip
>
> What is a GOSM? Does it use a water pan? Did you pre-boil the water? Not
> having hot water to start with is primary reason for slow take off on
> temp!
> --
> Regards,
>
> Piedmont

Great Outdoors Smokey Mountain. LP Fueled smoker. Yep, water pan. And I
figured that would happen with the water. To be nice to others in the house,
I filled the water pan with the hose at 4:30am, instead of getting good hot
water. So yep, that's definitely what caused the length of time to get up
to a reasonable temp. Thing is though, even once the water was heated, it
still didn't want to get above about 250 on the door, which according to one
of the other temp tests I did, was actually probably only about 225 to 230,
tops, if even that high.

I really think, although I'm not as experienced as most here, that the very
long time it took for the internal temp to get to 190 is why it dried out?
Should I try to start it off a little higher, say 275 or so for a couple of
hours, then bring the temp down?

>
> The Practical Bar-B-Q'r at: http://web.infoave.net/~amwil/Index.htm
>
> What difference does it make to the dead, the orphans and the homeless,
> whether the mad destruction is wrought under the name of totalitarianism
> or the holy name of liberty or democracy?
>
> Mahatma Gandhi, "Non-Violence in Peace and War"
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

43fan wrote:
snip
> Any suggestions as to why it came out so dry though?
>
> Thanks!!!
>
>
The flat section is the leanest cut of the packer, best to use a full,
untrimmed packer. Or, at least trimmed with at least 1/4 inch fat cap.
Other than that you did good!

Or, I soak my packer cuts in Walter Jetton Mop for three days and
you'll never have a dry brisket ever!

http://web.infoave.net/~amwil/discursion.htm#Walter

--
Regards,

Piedmont

The Practical Bar-B-Q'r at: http://web.infoave.net/~amwil/Index.htm

What difference does it make to the dead, the orphans and the homeless,
whether the mad destruction is wrought under the name of totalitarianism
or the holy name of liberty or democracy?

Mahatma Gandhi, "Non-Violence in Peace and War"

43fan wrote:
snip
> Got some oak off my neighbor. Started up the GOSM at about 4:30am, but for
snip

What is a GOSM? Does it use a water pan? Did you pre-boil the water? Not
having hot water to start with is primary reason for slow take off on temp!
--
Regards,

Piedmont

The Practical Bar-B-Q'r at: http://web.infoave.net/~amwil/Index.htm

What difference does it make to the dead, the orphans and the homeless,
whether the mad destruction is wrought under the name of totalitarianism
or the holy name of liberty or democracy?

Mahatma Gandhi, "Non-Violence in Peace and War"

Wrap it in foil after about 6 hours of cooking.


"43fan" > wrote in message
et...
> somewhat dry. Somewhat disappointed in that, but I'll keep working til I
> get it right.
>
> Ended up getting just a flat, cut from the full packer, although theire
> "full" brisket wasn't very big, maybe 8lbs tops? The flat portion I got
> was just about 6lbs. Mixed a rub(ok, I didn't stay simple, but figured
> what the heck, I'd try something *g*) of kosher salt, cracked pepper,
> garlic and onion powder, a little chili powder, some sugar in the raw,
> and... um... coffee. I dunno, I saw it done on one of the shows on tv, I
> think BBQ University, and figured what the heck, I'll give it a try. I do
> have to say this, the outside of the brisket, with that particular rub...
> damn that was good!
>
> Got some oak off my neighbor. Started up the GOSM at about 4:30am, but for
> some reason it took forever for it to come up to temp. I need to check my
> door thermometer again, as I know it's a bit low, but I think it's even
> lower than I originally thought. Put the brisket on at around 5:30, water
> and apple juice in the water pan. That big chunk of oak that I used
> lasted the entire cook, and still isn't completely charred through I don't
> think.
>
> It took a full 12hrs for the internal temp to reach 190... I tested it a
> couple of times with a fork even as low as 170, and still seemed pretty
> tough to get the fork in. Have to say, when it hit the 190 mark, left it
> there just a little longer, and the fork slid right in.
>
> Wrapped it double in aluminum foil, then in towels, then into a cooler for
> about an hour. When I cut it, some juices ran, but not a lot. VERY
> tender, much different than my previous attempts at doing brisket... more
> tender than most roasts I've had. But like I said in the beginning,
> seemed pretty dry.
>
> I'm wondering now if I cooked it at too low a temp, for too long? I know
> juices ran out while cooking as I put a pan of baked beans in underneath
> and caught what "dropped" in them. Definitely added great flavor to the
> beans. *g*
>
> Any suggestions as to why it came out so dry though?
>
> Thanks!!!
>
>

"43fan" > wrote in message
> I really think, although I'm not as experienced as most here, that the
> very long time it took for the internal temp to get to 190 is why it dried
> out? Should I try to start it off a little higher, say 275 or so for a
> couple of hours, then bring the temp down?

I think the problem is you had just a flat, probably trimmed too close. Get
the packer cut and do it right. 12 hours is not too long.
--
Ed
http://pages.cthome.net/edhome/

"Edwin Pawlowski" > wrote in message
om...
>
> "43fan" > wrote in message
>> I really think, although I'm not as experienced as most here, that the
>> very long time it took for the internal temp to get to 190 is why it
>> dried out? Should I try to start it off a little higher, say 275 or so
>> for a couple of hours, then bring the temp down?
>
> I think the problem is you had just a flat, probably trimmed too close.
> Get the packer cut and do it right. 12 hours is not too long.
> --

I think I need someone to explain to me what a "packer" cut is. What I know
is that it's the full brisket, untrimmed, flat and point both. While all I
had was the flat, if I had both the flat and point, I'd have had to cut the
two apart in order to get them to fit in my smoker, so I don't understand
how that would be different than having just the flat?? Believe me, I'm not
arguing, just trying to understand. Or are you saying that the cut I
bought already had too much fat cut off?

I guess I'm not really saying that 12hrs is too long, just wondering if the
temp itself was too low in the beginning? I had someone tell me(a guy from
TX actually) that I should sear the brisket first. To me that doesn't make
sense, as then how would the smoke actually flavor anything?

Thanks for everyone's help!
> Ed
> http://pages.cthome.net/edhome/
>

On Wed, 31 May 2006 07:37:46 -0400, "43fan" >
wrote:

> I had someone tell me(a guy from
>TX actually) that I should sear the brisket first.

He's probably wrong about other things, as well.

43fan wrote:
snip

> Any reason ever to inject???
snip
Personal preference, I used to inject the mop in addition to soaking it
but got lazy!
--
Regards,

Piedmont

The Practical Bar-B-Q'r at: http://web.infoave.net/~amwil/Index.htm

What difference does it make to the dead, the orphans and the homeless,
whether the mad destruction is wrought under the name of totalitarianism
or the holy name of liberty or democracy?

Mahatma Gandhi, "Non-Violence in Peace and War"

43fan wrote:
snip
> I really think, although I'm not as experienced as most here, that the very
> long time it took for the internal temp to get to 190 is why it dried out?
> Should I try to start it off a little higher, say 275 or so for a couple of
> hours, then bring the temp down?

The cool water has a tremendous effect on cooling the cooker, plus the
water, even if heated will reduce cooker temp! But regardless, a
brisket does take a long time to cook and the reason I soak brisket is
because beef will dry out easily.

Cooking at 275 is not a bad temp for brisket, I'd say it was just about
right. Plus, if you hadn't read about it, brisket will sit at 150F-155F
forever! it will seem, before finally climbing again.

I'd say you did ok except for the cool water and that if you cook the
same cut again, you'll still have a dry cut. Oh, one thing, once meat
reaches 195F, remove, wrap in foil, place in insulated cooler for at
least one to three hours and the juice will pull back into the meat.

Other than soaking, leave more fat on as possible, preboil water, remove
and wrap at 195F is all you can do.

--
Regards,

Piedmont

The Practical Bar-B-Q'r at: http://web.infoave.net/~amwil/Index.htm

What difference does it make to the dead, the orphans and the homeless,
whether the mad destruction is wrought under the name of totalitarianism
or the holy name of liberty or democracy?

Mahatma Gandhi, "Non-Violence in Peace and War"

43fan wrote:
snip
> I think I need someone to explain to me what a "packer" cut is. What I know

snip

Click on the link to my website for pictures and description of brisket,

http://web.infoave.net/~amwil/discur...Beef%20Brisket

or

http://tinyurl.com/qx398

-
Regards,

Piedmont

The Practical Bar-B-Q'r at: http://web.infoave.net/~amwil/Index.htm

What difference does it make to the dead, the orphans and the homeless,
whether the mad destruction is wrought under the name of totalitarianism
or the holy name of liberty or democracy?

Mahatma Gandhi, "Non-Violence in Peace and War"

Keep on Plonkin' wrote:
> Wrap it in foil after about 6 hours of cooking.
snip

Can't go by '6 hours' either internal temp of 195F or fork is inserted
and twisted easily! But I do agree to wrap in foil after cooking and
internal reaches 195F.
--
Regards,

Piedmont

The Practical Bar-B-Q'r at: http://web.infoave.net/~amwil/Index.htm

What difference does it make to the dead, the orphans and the homeless,
whether the mad destruction is wrought under the name of totalitarianism
or the holy name of liberty or democracy?

Mahatma Gandhi, "Non-Violence in Peace and War"

"Piedmont" > wrote in message
...
> 43fan wrote:
> snip
>> I really think, although I'm not as experienced as most here, that the
>> very long time it took for the internal temp to get to 190 is why it
>> dried out? Should I try to start it off a little higher, say 275 or so
>> for a couple of hours, then bring the temp down?
>
> The cool water has a tremendous effect on cooling the cooker, plus the
> water, even if heated will reduce cooker temp! But regardless, a brisket
> does take a long time to cook and the reason I soak brisket is because
> beef will dry out easily.
>
> Cooking at 275 is not a bad temp for brisket, I'd say it was just about
> right. Plus, if you hadn't read about it, brisket will sit at 150F-155F
> forever! it will seem, before finally climbing again.
>
> I'd say you did ok except for the cool water and that if you cook the same
> cut again, you'll still have a dry cut. Oh, one thing, once meat reaches
> 195F, remove, wrap in foil, place in insulated cooler for at least one to
> three hours and the juice will pull back into the meat.
>
> Other than soaking, leave more fat on as possible, preboil water, remove
> and wrap at 195F is all you can do.

Escoffier (and later, Julia Child) described a complicated method of
"larding" meats for roasting, using long strips of fat and a device called a
larding needle. I'm wondering if this could be accomplished using modern
technology. What I'm thinking of is rendering the fat trimmed off the
brisket, then injecting it into the meat with a large hypodermic needle. I'm
guessing that this would be more effective at keeping the meat moist than
the common practice of injecting water-based marinades. I haven't tried it
yet, but I will, and I'll let you know how it comes out.
--


--Rich

"Piedmont" > wrote in message
...
> 43fan wrote:
> snip
>> I really think, although I'm not as experienced as most here, that the
>> very long time it took for the internal temp to get to 190 is why it
>> dried out? Should I try to start it off a little higher, say 275 or so
>> for a couple of hours, then bring the temp down?
>
> The cool water has a tremendous effect on cooling the cooker, plus the
> water, even if heated will reduce cooker temp! But regardless, a brisket
> does take a long time to cook and the reason I soak brisket is because
> beef will dry out easily.
>

Fortunately,(maybe?) I did refill the water pan as needed with very hot
water, so at least on refills it didn't take away near as much heat.

> Cooking at 275 is not a bad temp for brisket, I'd say it was just about
> right. Plus, if you hadn't read about it, brisket will sit at 150F-155F
> forever! it will seem, before finally climbing again.
>

Oh, it did that for sure... and again at 165 actually. Weird thing to me
was, it sat at 165 for a long time, then went to 166, then dropped back to
165! I had to run to the cooker to see if it was still burning. *g*

> I'd say you did ok except for the cool water and that if you cook the same
> cut again, you'll still have a dry cut. Oh, one thing, once meat reaches
> 195F, remove, wrap in foil, place in insulated cooler for at least one to
> three hours and the juice will pull back into the meat.
>

The fork slid in easy at about 190-191, so I pulled it then and double
wrapped it in foil, then in a coupla towels, then into a cooler for a little
over an hour before slicing. So far everyone that tasted it was actually
amazed at the tenderness and great flavor, and most haven't even commented
on it being dry. When I brought it in to work, it was sliced and in a
ziplock, I put about two tbl of water in the bag before heating it up, and
it actually made it somewhat "juicy"...

> Other than soaking, leave more fat on as possible, preboil water, remove
> and wrap at 195F is all you can do.
>
I'm wondering if the rub maybe didn't have something to do with it too?
Decent amount of kosher salt, and it was on there for roughly 12hrs before
starting to cook. I wonder if the salt pulled a lot of moisture out?

Someone below mentioned larding.. that's what I'd planned on doing if I ever
smoke a deer roast/leg... actually, had planned on using a leg, cut it like
you would a leg of lamb, then lay bacon in as it's laid out, and roll it
almost like a jellyroll so there's fat down all through the meat.

I have to say that I'm REAL happy with how it turned out, and nothing better
than having people eat the food you cooked and tell you how delicious it is.
Anxious to do some pork this weekend, not sure if it's gonna be a
shoulder/butt or maybe try my hand at baby backs again... still haven't
gotten them as tender as I want, so might need to experiment with that.

I'm sure some here will think I'm nuts, but I'm really hoping to get good
enough at this that I can maybe cater some parties on weekends. Nothing
major, no more than 15-20people to start anyway(I couldn't do enough for
more than that in that little GOSM anyway!*laffin*) but all that there is
around these parts as far as BBQ goes is there are some guys who do whole
hog roasts, but that's about it.

> --
> Regards,
>
> Piedmont
>
> The Practical Bar-B-Q'r at: http://web.infoave.net/~amwil/Index.htm
>
> What difference does it make to the dead, the orphans and the homeless,
> whether the mad destruction is wrought under the name of totalitarianism
> or the holy name of liberty or democracy?
>
> Mahatma Gandhi, "Non-Violence in Peace and War"
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

On Thu, 1 Jun 2006 08:06:28 -0400, "43fan" >
wrote:

>Anxious to do some pork this weekend, not sure if it's gonna be a
>shoulder/butt or maybe try my hand at baby backs again... still haven't
>gotten them as tender as I want, so might need to experiment with that.

Babybacks: 4-5 hours at 250-275
Spares: 5-6 hours at 250-275

Both are done (and tender) when the meat pulls away about a half-inch
from the bone and when the slab "breaks" when bent back on itself.

43fan wrote:

> I'm wondering if the rub maybe didn't have something to do with it too?
> Decent amount of kosher salt, and it was on there for roughly 12hrs before
> starting to cook. I wonder if the salt pulled a lot of moisture out?

Salt shouldn't dry it out, no. However, you can leave meat sitting
in it's own rub so long that it begins to "cure". It will start to
aquire that hammy taste and texture associated with cured meat.

I just cured a rolled and tied pork shoulder for a week in
salt, sugar, and prague powder. It sat in that in the fridge
for a week. It came off the smoker anything but dry.

--
Reg

Denny Wheeler wrote:
> On Thu, 01 Jun 2006 08:45:45 -0600, Kevin S. Wilson >
> wrote:
>
> >Babybacks: 4-5 hours at 250-275
> >Spares: 5-6 hours at 250-275
> >
> >Both are done (and tender) when the meat pulls away about a half-inch
> >from the bone and when the slab "breaks" when bent back on itself.
>
> I think your time numbers are WAY off, Kevin. Rack of spares I did
> yesterday took a bit under 3 hours at 225-235 to reach 'pulled and
> breaking' stage. Another half-hour or so wouldn't have hurt 'em any,
> but 2+ more hours??? Not.

4-5 hrs for me for spares at 220- 250; I take them out when I can tear
them apart easily with my fingers. Less time if marinated.
>
> --
> -denny-
> "Do your thoughts call ahead or do they just arrive at your mouth unannounced?"
>
> "It's come as you are, baby."
>
> -over the hedge

On Sun, 04 Jun 2006 13:49:59 -0700, Denny Wheeler
> wrote:

>On Thu, 01 Jun 2006 08:45:45 -0600, Kevin S. Wilson >
>wrote:
>
>>Babybacks: 4-5 hours at 250-275
>>Spares: 5-6 hours at 250-275
>>
>>Both are done (and tender) when the meat pulls away about a half-inch
>>from the bone and when the slab "breaks" when bent back on itself.
>
>I think your time numbers are WAY off, Kevin. Rack of spares I did
>yesterday took a bit under 3 hours at 225-235 to reach 'pulled and
>breaking' stage. Another half-hour or so wouldn't have hurt 'em any,
>but 2+ more hours??? Not.

Yeah, I know. I've often noticed the discrepancy between my times and
those of others. What can I say? That's how long ribs take on my K5 or
K7, give or take 30 minutes. The difference between my times and yours
could be a function of the difference between dome temp and grill temp
in my cooker; maybe at the grill my K is not truly running as high as
the dome-mounted gauge indicates. Or it could be attributable to
different interpretations of "pulled and breaking."

<shrug> Dunno. After numerous dinner parties that started right on
time, I've come to rely on those estimates.

On Mon, 05 Jun 2006 20:14:52 -0700, Denny Wheeler
> wrote:

>One thought/Q--and I dunno even if it'd be relevant, but: are you at
>altitude? I know some of Idaho is pretty high.

2842 feet

Kevin S. Wilson wrote:
> On Mon, 05 Jun 2006 20:14:52 -0700, Denny Wheeler
> > wrote:
>
> >One thought/Q--and I dunno even if it'd be relevant, but: are you at
> >altitude? I know some of Idaho is pretty high.
>
> 2842 feet

Is that the altitude of the fire or the food?

-John O