Barbecue (alt.food.barbecue) Discuss barbecue and grilling--southern style "low and slow" smoking of ribs, shoulders and briskets, as well as direct heat grilling of everything from burgers to salmon to vegetables.

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  #1 (permalink)   Report Post  
 
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Default Advice on starting a BBQ joint

I live in upstate NY. No good BBQ joints anywhere.

1. Can someone provide gotchas related to opening a small BBQ joint?(I
don't want to open a franchise related place).

2. Where is the best place in USA to order a wood smoker?

3. Why don't famous places like Arthur Bryant's expand in the East?
Should be a no-brainer in theory.

4. How much should a decent pit master make?(I want to recruit one from
the West).

Thanks
Nat

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Duwop
 
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> wrote in message
>
> Thanks
> Nat



So, you want to open up a restaurant but not work at it. Riiiiiight, that's
got success written all over it.



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I will definetely manage the place. Not being an expert in running a
commercial type smoker, I hope to hire help (at least till I become an
expert myself).

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I will definetely manage the place. Not being an expert in running a
commercial type smoker, I hope to hire help (at least till I become an
expert myself).



  #6 (permalink)   Report Post  
Karl Kingston
 
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In article .com>,
> wrote:
>I live in upstate NY. No good BBQ joints anywhere.



Say what?!?! Where in upstate NY?? There's Dinosaur BBQ in Syracuse (and Rochester).


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Take no offense please. Can't tell you the exact location and have
someone beat me to the spot.
>From the statements I've read, I get the vibe that only good BBQ cooks

should attempt to get into this business. This may be true, but there
has to be room for people with some venture capital and willingness to
bust their ass to drive the startup efforts.
I have a very good job in the computer field and have enough common
sense to realize that my job will be outsourced sooner or later.
Running my own joint (even if I have to put in 20 hours a day) would be
a lot risky in the end IMHO.
Thanks for all the good advice so far.

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Default User
 
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wrote:
> Take no offense please. Can't tell you the exact location and have
> someone beat me to the spot.


Right. That's what happens all the time, people steal prime BBQ
restaurant locations from usenet strangers.


> Running my own joint (even if I have to put in 20 hours a day) would

be
> a lot risky in the end IMHO.



If you meant to say, "a lot less risky" then you are sadly mistaken
about the restaurant business. It has the highest failure rate of all
startup businesses, even when started by food service professionals.
Rank amateurs have little hope.

If you were really interested in this, a better idea would be to get
some substantial instruction in food service management before
attempting such a venture.


Brian

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> I have a very good job in the computer field and have enough common
> sense to realize that my job will be outsourced sooner or later.


Nat-

We are in the same boat. I'm in the computer field as well. The recent
I.T. downturn has left me in a government job with tons of job security
but, not a ton of cash.

Yeah, we could be outsourced but, only that job duty that is outsource
ready. Can't imagine a Network Tech not on site to punch down, pull
cable, etc.

The idea of opening my own Q' joint has sounded attractive to me as
well.
But, NO WAY am I going in to business without a damn good plan and some
solid food service managment experience (not taught in college)!

The competition in my part of NC is serious. There are three entrenched
players within a 10 mile radius of each other and one of these is a
local, multi-unit operator. Recently, a new joint opened and seems to
be doing well by outward appearances. However, all are old school
a.k.a. barely smoked, pork joints with some sprawling into doing
breakfast and dinners with fried fish.

If you can find some VC and not give away the candy store all the
better for you. The VCs are way more decerning than ever with the
"Dot-bust" behind us. Besides, VCs demand a huge slice of the pie and
AN EXIT STRATEGY.

So, then you're out another job (possibly) and this is the one you
built from the ground up.

Rob

Rob



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Dimitri
 
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> wrote in message
oups.com...
>I live in upstate NY. No good BBQ joints anywhere.
>
> 1. Can someone provide gotchas related to opening a small BBQ joint?(I
> don't want to open a franchise related place).
>
> 2. Where is the best place in USA to order a wood smoker?
>
> 3. Why don't famous places like Arthur Bryant's expand in the East?
> Should be a no-brainer in theory.
>
> 4. How much should a decent pit master make?(I want to recruit one from
> the West).
>
> Thanks
> Nat



http://davebbq.com/

Dimitri


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Chef Juke
 
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On 8 Feb 2005 07:07:57 -0800, wrote:

>I live in upstate NY. No good BBQ joints anywhere.
>
>1. Can someone provide gotchas related to opening a small BBQ joint?(I
>don't want to open a franchise related place).
>
>2. Where is the best place in USA to order a wood smoker?
>
>3. Why don't famous places like Arthur Bryant's expand in the East?
>Should be a no-brainer in theory.
>
>4. How much should a decent pit master make?(I want to recruit one from
>the West).
>
>Thanks
>Nat



Nat,

Okay, so you wanna open a BBQ joint. From your initial post it
*seems* like you many not have much if any restaurant experience.

Here are some suggestions from a person who is also in the computer
field, but has worked over 20 years in the restaurant biz.

First, you need to learn. You need to understand as much as you
possibly can about the restaurant business. One of the biggest
reasons for restaurant failure that I have seen have been people who
did not have a good enough working knowledge of the business they were
going into. They saw ONE part of the biz and thought that was all
there was to it.

Sometimes, when an entrepreneur knows enough to know that they don't
know enough to do it by themselves, they partner up with someone who
knows restaurants better. Problem is...if *YOU* don't know
restaurants enough, how can you judge whether the partner you bring in
does? Additionally, partnerships don't last. Two people may want to
do the same thing at the same particular point in time, but that
doesn't mean their interests will consistently parallel. If you go
into a partnership, you will need to make sure that you have an
agreement on how to amicably separate if one party so desires.

Now, to the REAL nitty gritty.

The standard statistics for Restaurant success in the US (and these
figures are from a consulting firm survey of National business
statistics done about 10 years ago, but had been pretty steady for the
25 years before that) are as follows:

Approximately 95% of new single owner restaurants (not franchises) in
the U.S. fail or are sold in the first 2 years, 50% of the remaining
fail/sell within the next 3 years, and 50% of the remaining fail/sell
in the next 5 years. So for every 100 new restaurants that start this
year, by 2015 less than 2 of them will still be in business with the
original owners.

If this does not scare/dissuade you, then here's some suggestions:

1) If I were going to open a BBQ restaurant, a REAL BBQ restaurant,
mind you (anyone can steam/boil/bake ribs), the first thing I would do
is take a road trip. I would take at least month (if I had to I
would break it up into 2 trips) and seek out and visit as many
family-owned, long time BBQ restaurants in the south and midwest as I
could. I would focus on those places with good reputations that are
single owner (or family owned) that have been in business for 10+
years. These are the places that have figured out a successful model
that beats the averages that I quoted above.

Talk to the owners....ask them about their experiences...what worked
for them..what didn't...sample their Que....scope out their
business...some may talk to you...some may not...but at the very
least, if you take copious notes on how they do their business, you
can get some clues . After your trip...compare notes on the different
places...see what common denominators they have.

2) Next...Business plan. You have to have a solid business plan. And
your plan must be *REAL*. Don't make up numbers. Loan officers will
know when you are trying to shine them on. To get real numbers you
will need to use the research from item #1. If you don't do the
research, you won't have the real numbers and if you are a first time
business person trying to get financing to open a restaurant and you
don't have real numbers they will laugh you out of the bank.

If you are not going through a bank, say you have friends/associates
who are willing to front you...well, you should STILL have those real
numbers. You shouldn't take other people's money any more lightly
than your own.

Ask Dave Bugg. He got his business started after doing a HELL of a
lot of research and it showed in his business plan.

(See Article on Dave's Business Plan at
http://tinyurl.com/5dxgb )

If you can just get through items 1 & 2 above AND you still want to go
into the biz...more power to you. I think that getting through the
above is a challenge in and of itself and by the time you are through,
you will either have gained the knowledge you need to be able to make
and educated descision as to whether or not you want to move forward
with the BBQ joint idea OR you will have decided that maybe a
Starbucks franchise is more along the lines of what you want to do...

Finally, restaurant work is hard work. It is NOT an easy business and
the monetary return on investment tends to be fairly low compared to
other investment opportunities. The restauranteurs that I have known
who have suceeded were ones who either had a simple affair that they
ran themselves day in and day out...or they had a deep-seated passion
and drive for what they were doing...so much so that they couldn't
imagine doing anything else....

So there's at least something to chew on. All of the above is my
personal opinion. Your Mileage May Vary...








-Chef Juke
"EVERYbody Eats When They Come To MY House!"

  #14 (permalink)   Report Post  
Piedmont
 
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wrote:
> I live in upstate NY. No good BBQ joints anywhere.
>
> 1. Can someone provide gotchas related to opening a small BBQ joint?(I
> don't want to open a franchise related place).
>
> 2. Where is the best place in USA to order a wood smoker?
>
> 3. Why don't famous places like Arthur Bryant's expand in the East?
> Should be a no-brainer in theory.
>
> 4. How much should a decent pit master make?(I want to recruit one from
> the West).
>
> Thanks
> Nat
>


Nat:

Remember this and move n it soon! Just because you like something in no
way means the community will like!

I spoke with the owner of Baby Back Blues in Plainfeild, IL. Even thogh
he had great commercial cooker, the locals had no idea what good bbq
was. The locals would not eat his ribs unless they were boiled first!

First thing that I would do If I were you is do some trials. Some market
reasearch up front! Get yourself a Weber Smokey Mountain. You should be
able to get good results fast with it. Then try some of the recipes you
can find here and in the FAQ.

Then give samples away to strangers, not family, tell the you are doing
market research and need to know their opinion.

You also need to decide what will be on your menu before time, not just
meats but sides too.

Also, take yourself to some of the real bbq restraunts already in
business to find out what is actually selling. For example, Th Moonlite
in Owensboro, KY, The Lexington in Lexington, NC, Thelma's in Houston,
TX, to name just a few.

On my MSn Group, The Practical Bar B Q'r you'll find links to commercial
cookers such as the Olyer Pit and Ole Hickory Pits. Withthese your
learning curve for Q will be fast.

I beleive your biggest obstacles will be learning the business of the
kitchen. Food codes and food safety, along with the fact that if you've
never run a business before, then basic business accounting. youll also
need to find suppliers for food, napkins, etc..

Id say don't worry about a bbq chef but perhaps someone that can manage
arestraunt!

Just for starters! (grin)


--
Mike Willsey (Piedmont)
"The Practical Bar-B-Q'r!"
http://groups.msn.com/ThePracticalBa...ewwelcome.msnw

Charities; Oxfam GB: http://www.oxfam.org.uk/about_us/index.htm,
Operation Smile: http://www.operationsmile.org/

If you or a loved one has thyroid issues, please have their thyroid
checked for radiation levels!





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Dana H. Myers
 
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Default User wrote:

> If you meant to say, "a lot less risky" then you are sadly mistaken
> about the restaurant business. It has the highest failure rate of all
> startup businesses, even when started by food service professionals.


Based on what several folks in the biz have told me,
the half-life of a new restaurant is something like
6 months and this can extend for years.

Dana


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Edwin Pawlowski
 
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> wrote in message
oups.com...
>I live in upstate NY. No good BBQ joints anywhere.
>
> 1. Can someone provide gotchas related to opening a small BBQ joint?(I
> don't want to open a franchise related place).


Sure, not enough people in the area to support one. Probably less than 1%
know what real bbq is. We had a mediocre one in my town, population 10,000
and surrounding towns of another 15,000 and it barely made it for a couple
of years. Finally closed in December.



> 2. Where is the best place in USA to order a wood smoker?


Sitting at your desk in your office.


>
> 3. Why don't famous places like Arthur Bryant's expand in the East?
> Should be a no-brainer in theory.


Sure, not enough people in the area to support one. Probably less than 1%
know what real bbq is.


>
> 4. How much should a decent pit master make?(I want to recruit one from
> the West).


I'd do it for you for 100k, but it would have to be up front or in an escrow
account. Too many restaurants fold after a few months.

Truth is, I rarely ate at the bbq place in town, or any other others in the
east. Why? Because none make the food as good as I can at home. If it
does not meet my standards, I'm not buying it. Here in New England to worst
of places make a decent chowder and I often order it when out. . Very few
bbq places make it big because people just don't care about it. The care
about chowder and fish 'n' chips.
--
Ed
http://pages.cthome.net/edhome/


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"Edwin Pawlowski" > wrote:
> > wrote in message
>
> >I live in upstate NY. No good BBQ joints anywhere.
> >
> > 1. Can someone provide gotchas related to opening a small BBQ joint?(I
> > don't want to open a franchise related place).

>
> Sure, not enough people in the area to support one. Probably less than
> 1% know what real bbq is. We had a mediocre one in my town, population
> 10,000 and surrounding towns of another 15,000 and it barely made it for
> a couple of years. Finally closed in December.
>
> > 2. Where is the best place in USA to order a wood smoker?

>
> Sitting at your desk in your office.
> >
> > 3. Why don't famous places like Arthur Bryant's expand in the East?
> > Should be a no-brainer in theory.

>
> Sure, not enough people in the area to support one. Probably less than
> 1% know what real bbq is.
>
> >
> > 4. How much should a decent pit master make?(I want to recruit one from
> > the West).

>
> I'd do it for you for 100k, but it would have to be up front or in an
> escrow account. Too many restaurants fold after a few months.
>
> Truth is, I rarely ate at the bbq place in town, or any other others in
> the east. Why? Because none make the food as good as I can at home. If
> it does not meet my standards, I'm not buying it. Here in New England to
> worst of places make a decent chowder and I often order it when out. .
> Very few bbq places make it big because people just don't care about it.
> The care about chowder and fish 'n' chips.


I hope you're listening AND paying attention, Nat. None of the posts that
I've seen in response to your question have been intended to turn you off,
only to make you think. Call it tough love. Ponder well, Grasshopper!

--
Nick. To help with tsunami relief, go to: http://usafreedomcorps.gov/


Thank a Veteran and Support Our Troops. You are not forgotten. Thanks ! ! !
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Yeah, very surprised by the complexity...

I was working in VA (just outside DC) a few years ago. There was a farm
near my office complex. One of the farmers would smoke a large pig
every day in a homemade smoker he kept right by the road. At lunch
time, we would all go over there to get $5.00 plates of pretty decent
Q. By 2:30 he would sell all the meat and always had a pretty
impressive wad of cash (income tax free).
When I lost my job, I stopped in for my last meal and thought to myself
"..this guy with a 3rd grade education has the best gig in town and
sleeps much better than me....".

Nat

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Yeah, very surprised by the complexity...

I was working in VA (just outside DC) a few years ago. There was a farm
near my office complex. One of the farmers would smoke a large pig
every day in a homemade smoker he kept right by the road. At lunch
time, we would all go over there to get $5.00 plates of pretty decent
Q. By 2:30 he would sell all the meat and always had a pretty
impressive wad of cash (income tax free).
When I lost my job, I stopped in for my last meal and thought to myself
"..this guy with a 3rd grade education has the best gig in town and
sleeps much better than me....".

Nat



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Edwin Pawlowski
 
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> wrote in message
oups.com...
> Yeah, very surprised by the complexity...
>
> I was working in VA (just outside DC) a few years ago. There was a farm
> near my office complex. One of the farmers would smoke a large pig
> every day in a homemade smoker he kept right by the road. At lunch
> time, we would all go over there to get $5.00 plates of pretty decent
> Q. By 2:30 he would sell all the meat and always had a pretty
> impressive wad of cash (income tax free).
> When I lost my job, I stopped in for my last meal and thought to myself
> "..this guy with a 3rd grade education has the best gig in town and
> sleeps much better than me....".
>
> Nat



If you read the history of barbecue, there were many people that did that
sort of thing. Probably the best food you can get. Today, they'd take you
to court and take away the family farm in court costs and fines.

Check out the requirements for a catering truck to comply with all the laws.


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"Edwin Pawlowski" > wrote:
> > wrote in message
>
> > Yeah, very surprised by the complexity...
> >
> > I was working in VA (just outside DC) a few years ago. There was a farm
> > near my office complex. One of the farmers would smoke a large pig
> > every day in a homemade smoker he kept right by the road. At lunch
> > time, we would all go over there to get $5.00 plates of pretty decent
> > Q. By 2:30 he would sell all the meat and always had a pretty
> > impressive wad of cash (income tax free).
> > When I lost my job, I stopped in for my last meal and thought to myself
> > "..this guy with a 3rd grade education has the best gig in town and
> > sleeps much better than me....".
> >

> If you read the history of barbecue, there were many people that did that
> sort of thing. Probably the best food you can get. Today, they'd take
> you to court and take away the family farm in court costs and fines.
>
> Check out the requirements for a catering truck to comply with all the
> laws.


Here in Los Angeles, the requirements are brutal, not only for the truck
but for your base of operations. While they're called 'Roach Coaches', if
they find on roach, dead or alive, or one rat turd, you're shut down. I
forget what the re-inspection to let you operate again costs, but it's much
more thorough, if that's possible.

--
Nick. To help with tsunami relief, go to: http://usafreedomcorps.gov/


Thank a Veteran and Support Our Troops. You are not forgotten. Thanks ! ! !
  #25 (permalink)   Report Post  
MonopTN
 
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>>>>>>The locals would not eat his ribs unless they >>>>>>were boiled first!


That's one way to make the folks here boil their ribs. If they buy 'em,
boil em!

> wrote in message
...
> "Edwin Pawlowski" > wrote:
>> > wrote in message
>>
>> > Yeah, very surprised by the complexity...
>> >
>> > I was working in VA (just outside DC) a few years ago. There was a farm
>> > near my office complex. One of the farmers would smoke a large pig
>> > every day in a homemade smoker he kept right by the road. At lunch
>> > time, we would all go over there to get $5.00 plates of pretty decent
>> > Q. By 2:30 he would sell all the meat and always had a pretty
>> > impressive wad of cash (income tax free).
>> > When I lost my job, I stopped in for my last meal and thought to myself
>> > "..this guy with a 3rd grade education has the best gig in town and
>> > sleeps much better than me....".
>> >

>> If you read the history of barbecue, there were many people that did that
>> sort of thing. Probably the best food you can get. Today, they'd take
>> you to court and take away the family farm in court costs and fines.
>>
>> Check out the requirements for a catering truck to comply with all the
>> laws.

>
> Here in Los Angeles, the requirements are brutal, not only for the truck
> but for your base of operations. While they're called 'Roach Coaches', if
> they find on roach, dead or alive, or one rat turd, you're shut down. I
> forget what the re-inspection to let you operate again costs, but it's
> much
> more thorough, if that's possible.
>
> --
> Nick. To help with tsunami relief, go to: http://usafreedomcorps.gov/
>
>
> Thank a Veteran and Support Our Troops. You are not forgotten. Thanks ! !
> !





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Steve House
 
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Come north a bit over into Southern Ontario and visit Camp 31

> wrote in message
oups.com...
>I live in upstate NY. No good BBQ joints anywhere.
>
> 1. Can someone provide gotchas related to opening a small BBQ joint?(I
> don't want to open a franchise related place).
>
> 2. Where is the best place in USA to order a wood smoker?
>
> 3. Why don't famous places like Arthur Bryant's expand in the East?
> Should be a no-brainer in theory.
>
> 4. How much should a decent pit master make?(I want to recruit one from
> the West).
>
> Thanks
> Nat
>


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