Ole Hickory Pits and Service
Hi guys. Thought you might find this interesting.
Situation: The propane log lighter is inserted through a hole of my Ole Hickory pit into the fire chamber. As it turns out, at least in my pit, there is a large air-gap from this hole which was never sealed. This has allowed significant quantities of smoke to leak into the kitchen. This has been a nuisance, but I've put up with it because it was low on the priority list. We simply opened the back door and used a fan to push out any smoke build-up. I finally called Ole Hickory yesterday afternoon to talk about fixes --- I had thought placing some firestove type fiberglass door gasket material into the air-gap, or using a high-temp silicone sealant would do the trick, and I just wanted to confirm my thoughts. Well, their head tech, Tony, completely and repeatedly denied that the large air-gaps from the hole had anything to do with the situation. He continually insisted that the problem was a plugged chimney or inadequate make-up air from the stove's hood system. {note: the chimney was checked for cleaning -- none needed -- the week previous, and my make-up air system was designed and installed by a professional hood manufacturer/installer for 1.5 times the amount needed for BOTH the hood and the pit} So, after an infuriating 20 minutes, I asked for Tony's boss. That guy readily listened and agreed with my assessment and offered to send the materials to accomplish the task (which I declined, given the low-tech nature of the fix, and the fact that I didn't want to wait for the materials to make the fix). So, today, I get an email from Tony, completely taking my assessment to task with a full-frontal denial of the need for a fix, and warning me of dire consequences if I don't get my chimney unplugged immediately and if I don't shut my pit down until the make up air system is re-evaluated. Sigh. This guy is unbelievable. Not only is shutting my pit or my store down the furthest thing from necessary, I sent the following email: [begin quote] The assertion that either there is inadequate make-up air, or that there is a blocked flue or chimney are incorrect. Our make-up air system was designed to provide 1.5 to 2 times the amount of make-up air required for both the restaurant hood system and the chimney and fan system installed on my EL unit. I had the entire chimney assembly checked last week for obstructions, and it is clear. The fact of the matter is this: There is a weakness to the design or assembly of MY el model pit The hole that pierces the firebox, in order to accommodate the log-burner assembly, is not sealed properly - and in fact has large gaps -- and allows quantities of smoke to leak before being drawn into the cooking chamber. This is unsatisfactory. At this point, with your persistent, obtuse refusal to: 1. Consider the possibility that there is a flaw in the design or assembly of MY el model pit; 2. Responsibly, and with an open mind, from both our unsatisfactory phone conversation and then this e-mail, attempt to correctly ascertain the solution to a problem that you have NOT EVEN PERSONALLY INSPECTED; 3. Entirely REJECT my personal observations about the problem and potential flaws, the adequacy of my make-up air system (which was designed and installed by a major regional professional manufacturer and installer, who also installed the chimney and the cooking chamber evacuation fan and vent. This was recently reinspected by a second installer and found to be MORE than adequate). I have decided to be angry about the defensive and absolute rudely dismissive attitude. After speaking with your boss after our conversation, I had decided to take his recommendations and apply high temp sealer Sealant to the leaky hole in the firebox. Now, that has changed. You have made me angry with your attitude and it appears I cannot get anywhere with Ole Hickory. I now am demanding that, under warranty, you send a service technician within the next 7 working days to fix the problems. If this is NOT done, my attorney will be in touch with the State of Missouri's Attorneys General Office of consumer affairs to file the proper complaints. I will then proceed to do the same with our own AG's office, as well as with the various state departments that deal with unsafe manufacturing practices identified in industrial and commercial use equipment. In addition, since our business has grown so rapidly in the three months since we have opened our doors, we have a need to add an additional pit. It is now obvious that Southern Pride will be getting our business. When I had visited Cape Girardeau to look at your pits, I was impressed with all the talk of how well Ole Hickory took care of its customers. It is now clear that this had, indeed, been mere talk and that you don't walk the walk. It seems your first line of dealing with the customer is to blame everything else, try to intimidate with bluster, than walk away. Fine. But I ain't taking it. [end quote] Leaky, or not, the pit turns out some great 'Q. Life sure would have been simpler if our climate here would have allowed an outdoor install :-) -- Dave Dave's Pit-Smoked Bar-B-Que http://davebbq.com/ |
Jack Curry wrote:
> Company Presidents usually don't like this sort of thing...and > employees generally **** themselves when letters of complaint > featuring their name reach the bossman's desk. I left it to our attorney to do the registered mail thingy with all the lawyer language. My email was cc'd to the president of the company, though. Gad, we're thinking alike, Jack :-) BTW, sorry 'bout being so snotty and petualant in our previous. :-( -- Dave Dave's Pit-Smoked Bar-B-Que http://davebbq.com/ |
> BTW, sorry 'bout being so snotty and petualant in our previous. :-( > > -- > Dave > Dave's Pit-Smoked Bar-B-Que > http://davebbq.com/ > > Bygones. ;-) Jack |
Dave Bugg wrote:
> Hi guys. Thought you might find this interesting. SNIP > Leaky, or not, the pit turns out some great 'Q. Life sure would have been > simpler if our climate here would have allowed an outdoor install :-) > Hey Dave, If your cooker is still under warranty, and you don't want them to be legally responsible for carbon monoxide issues, etc.. You might want to step back and double check. Also, by doing a "modification and or repair yourself" you might be nullifing the warranty. Also, even with a great chimmney, if the building is "tight" it could be the intake of air from outside stifles the out flow of air. I guess you have an air make-up from outside plumbed in or do you just take air from the surrounding kitchen air? Just some stuff, otherwise called food for thought. -- Mike Willsey (Pedmont) "The Practical Bar-B-Q'r!" http://groups.msn.com/ThePracticalBa...ewwelcome.msnw Charities; Oxfam GB: http://www.oxfam.org.uk/about_us/index.htm, Operation Smile: http://www.operationsmile.org/ |
Piedmont wrote:
> Dave Bugg wrote: >> Hi guys. Thought you might find this interesting. > SNIP >> Leaky, or not, the pit turns out some great 'Q. Life sure would >> have been simpler if our climate here would have allowed an outdoor >> install :-) > > Hey Dave, > > If your cooker is still under warranty, and you don't want them to be > legally responsible for carbon monoxide issues, etc.. You might want > to step back and double check. Also, by doing a "modification and or > repair yourself" you might be nullifing the warranty. Which is why I've given Ole Hickory 7 working days to get the work done. > Also, even with a great chimmney, if the building is "tight" it could > be the intake of air from outside stifles the out flow of air. I > guess you have an air make-up from outside plumbed in or do you just > take air from the surrounding kitchen air? As I indicated in my post, the makeup air system was designed and installed by a company that specializes in such installs. My spec for the system was to provide 150 to 200% of required make up air. > Just some stuff, otherwise called food for thought. Thanks, but it was already taken into consideration and acted upon :-) -- Dave Dave's Pit-Smoked Bar-B-Que http://davebbq.com/ |
" >> "Dave Bugg" > wrote in message >>>The propane log lighter is inserted through a hole of my Ole Hickory pit >>>into the fire chamber. As it turns out, at least in my pit, there is a >>>large air-gap from this hole which was never sealed. Is it supposed to be sealed? Could there be a reason it is intentionally left open? If the draft was high, it should be drawing air in, not putting smoke out. I've seen many woodstoves with holes or openings that never leak. The biggest problem becomes one of difficulty of control on an airtight model. In most any heater, boiler, stove, if the chimney has a good draw openings on the fire chamber or before, allow air in, but not smoke out. Just like opening the peep hole on an oil burner. Check to see tha all the internal baffles, if any, are in proper position. I don't know your particular setup, but I do have 25 years of experinece and carry two licences for operation of high pressure steam systems of various fuels. The principal of operation is the same. If smoke is coming out, so is CO. |
Dave Bugg wrote: > > Jack Curry wrote: > > Company Presidents usually don't like this sort of thing...and > > employees generally **** themselves when letters of complaint > > featuring their name reach the bossman's desk. > > I left it to our attorney to do the registered mail thingy with all the > lawyer language. My email was cc'd to the president of the company, though. > Gad, we're thinking alike, Jack :-) > > BTW, sorry 'bout being so snotty and petualant in our previous. :-( Technically, if the makeup air is " 1.5 to 2 times the amount of make-up air required" you couldn't have leakage due to a pressurization. Just ignore the cooker for a second. Your system would ventilate any smoke in the area with a very fast turnover rate and wouldn't necessitate opeing the back door. Obviously the system either has a leak, inadequate ventilation or the MA system isn't providing what it is speced out to produce. I would heed the designer's warning and have a HVAC engineer review the make-up air design and have the safety of the indoor air quality tested and approved. There is no need to risk litigation and bad press from patrons getting CO poisoning. -CAL |
On Thu, 20 Jan 2005 16:09:32 -0800, "Dave Bugg" >
wrote: >Jack Curry wrote: >> Company Presidents usually don't like this sort of thing...and >> employees generally **** themselves when letters of complaint >> featuring their name reach the bossman's desk. > >I left it to our attorney to do the registered mail thingy with all the >lawyer language. My email was cc'd to the president of the company, though. >Gad, we're thinking alike, Jack :-) > >BTW, sorry 'bout being so snotty and petualant in our previous. :-( Dave, how about you invite the Sales guy out to talk about the additional equipment that you will need, and take the opportunity to ask for some clarification about and correction to your existing unit. Sales guys tend rip Tech/Support Guys a new one when this type of thing gets going. BTW I've seen those Southern Pride Units and they are quite nice also. Harry |
Harry Demidavicius wrote:
> On Thu, 20 Jan 2005 16:09:32 -0800, "Dave Bugg" > > wrote: > >> Jack Curry wrote: >>> Company Presidents usually don't like this sort of >>> thing...and employees generally **** themselves when >>> letters of complaint featuring their name reach the >>> bossman's desk. >> >> I left it to our attorney to do the registered mail >> thingy with all the lawyer language. My email was cc'd >> to the president of the company, though. Gad, we're >> thinking alike, Jack :-) >> >> BTW, sorry 'bout being so snotty and petualant in our >> previous. :-( > > Dave, how about you invite the Sales guy out to talk > about the additional equipment that you will need, and > take the opportunity to ask for some clarification about > and correction to your existing unit. Sales guys tend rip > Tech/Support Guys a new one when this type of thing gets > going. BTW I've seen those Southern Pride Units and they > are quite nice also. > > Harry I know nothing about those types of cookers, but Paul Kirk is opening a restuarant in NYC this spring, and has plans to use J & R out of Mesquite, TX . Here's the thread: http://www.rbjb.com/rbjb/rbjbboard/messages/375988.html and his response when asked what smokers he would be using. http://www.rbjb.com/rbjb/rbjbboard/messages/376227.html This info might come in handy when talking to sales reps. BOB |
Dave Bugg wrote: > Hi guys. Thought you might find this interesting. > >snipped yet another example of poor customer service.< Dave- Sorry to hear of your problems. Please keep us informed as to your progress. FWIW: Recently, a new Q joint opened in my necck of the woods in NC. Turns out they have a Southern Pride unit installed (mostly) outside. They have the right equipment, I just don't think they know how to use it yet as the food lacks a smoke ring or taste. Rob |
Dave Bugg wrote: > Hi guys. Thought you might find this interesting. > So, Dave what finally happened? Did they make good or not? Rob |
" wrote: > > Dave Bugg wrote: > > Hi guys. Thought you might find this interesting. > > > > So, Dave what finally happened? Did they make good or not? > > Rob Dave, I was wondering that too. -CAL |
cl wrote:
> Dave, I was wondering that too. > > -CAL Hi Rob and Cal. Nothing has happened. I've forwarded my complaints to the appropriate agencies. <shrug> In the meantime, I plugged up the gap and that solved the problem. -- Dave Dave's Pit-Smoked Bar-B-Que http://davebbq.com/ |
So a rude email from some flunkey in customer service caused you to
threaten legal action against his company, and to cease business with them? You definitely burned some bridges there, for no reason. To quote the Preacher: "Vanity, vanity, all is vanity." On Thu, 10 Feb 2005 21:20:54 -0800, Dave Bugg > wrote: > Hi Rob and Cal. Nothing has happened. I've forwarded my complaints to the > appropriate agencies. <shrug> In the meantime, I plugged up the gap and > that solved the problem. |
"anon" > wrote in message ... > So a rude email from some flunkey in customer service caused you to > threaten legal action against his company, and to cease business with > them? You definitely burned some bridges there, for no reason. To quote > the Preacher: "Vanity, vanity, all is vanity." > > On Thu, 10 Feb 2005 21:20:54 -0800, Dave Bugg > wrote: > >> Hi Rob and Cal. Nothing has happened. I've forwarded my complaints to >> the >> appropriate agencies. <shrug> In the meantime, I plugged up the gap and >> that solved the problem. Apparently, Mr. Anon, you don't "get" that there a lot of choices Dave could have made and may well make in the future. You also don't understand that getting things "right" for your customer after the sale will have a large bearing on repeat business. Finally, the lifeblood of any business is referals. Do a good job and a satisfied client will tell anyone who asks. Do a bad job and they'll tell everyone whether they asked or not. Don't you feel a bit emasculated having to post behind an anonymizer? JD |
anon wrote:
> So a rude email from some flunkey in customer service caused you to > threaten legal action against his company, and to cease business with > them? You definitely burned some bridges there, for no reason. To > quote the Preacher: "Vanity, vanity, all is vanity." And you are???? Of course, the top-posting gave you away. Come back when you have a clue. -- Dave Dave's Pit-Smoked Bar-B-Que http://davebbq.com/ |
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