Barbecue (alt.food.barbecue) Discuss barbecue and grilling--southern style "low and slow" smoking of ribs, shoulders and briskets, as well as direct heat grilling of everything from burgers to salmon to vegetables.

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Default Vacuum Marinating in FoodSaver-Type Bags - Myth?

What Marty says. I've had a few products appear to boil
inside the bag as the vacuum in my chamber machine
progressed. Sometimes it boils vigorously enough to
escape the bag and make a mess. .

Brick said that
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What Marty says. I've had a few products appear to boil
inside the bag as the vacuum in my chamber machine
progressed. Sometimes it boils vigorously enough to
escape the bag and make a mess. .

Brick said that
It aint boiling..its just being sucked up through the pump. The best and about only way to to pull a vacuum on a bag containing liquid is to partially freeze it first. That will work. Now the high dollar vacuum cabinets can do it..but not the cheaper Food Saver/Twila type systems.
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Default Vacuum Marinating in FoodSaver-Type Bags - Myth?

On Sat, 5 Apr 2014 22:33:01 +0100, bigwheel
> wrote:

>It aint boiling..its just being sucked up through the pump. The best and
>about only way to to pull a vacuum on a bag containing liquid is to
>partially freeze it first. That will work. Now the high dollar vacuum
>cabinets can do it..but not the cheaper Food Saver/Twila type systems.


It'll boil alright -- if it's in a solid container and the pressure gets low
enough. Something around 0.3 psi / 3/4 inch of mercury, for water at 70° F, if I
read wikipedia correctly. The kicker is that the pressure can't get any lower
until all the water is boiled off.

Personally, I'd expect that the marinade will get in the food not with the
vacuum, but with the pressure rising again: suck air out with a vacuum, marinade
bubbles. Suck more, marinade boils (probably a good thing, like stirring the
pot). Release the vacuum, and the marinade gets pushed into the holes where the
air was. Something like that?

Probably different if the goal is not marinating, but preservation: less air
means less oxygen means one way less for food to spoil. So suck air out, and
keep it out.

I think they put little teabags of iron filings in with those emergency rations
for that reason... OK, looked it up: "oxygen scavenger", often iron filings and
salt. The iron rusts away merrily in the presence of salt, like a car at the
seaside. This uses up the oxygen in the sealed container, like a MRE. This in
turn means the food keeps better. The benefit of removing the oxygen is listed
as "preventing oxidation" (yeah, I figured that...), so oils don't go rancid,
fruit doesn't go brown. Doesn't inhibit bacteria, though it does some molds. And
they pack some meats in a "controlled atmosphere", which probably means no
oxygen -- and maybe are careful mix of gases to make the meat look redder.



Thomas Prufer
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Default Vacuum Marinating in FoodSaver-Type Bags - Myth?

I was talking about the effect in a chamber vacuum machine. And
yes it does appear as if it were boiling.

Brick said that.
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Default Vacuum Marinating in FoodSaver-Type Bags - Myth?

Bread keeps marvelously well under vacuum. Atisan
breads from the Deli keep for a couple of weeks
easily.

Brick said that


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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thomas Prufer View Post
On Sat, 5 Apr 2014 22:33:01 +0100, bigwheel
wrote:

It aint boiling..its just being sucked up through the pump. The best and
about only way to to pull a vacuum on a bag containing liquid is to
partially freeze it first. That will work. Now the high dollar vacuum
cabinets can do it..but not the cheaper Food Saver/Twila type systems.


It'll boil alright -- if it's in a solid container and the pressure gets low
enough. Something around 0.3 psi / 3/4 inch of mercury, for water at 70° F, if I
read wikipedia correctly. The kicker is that the pressure can't get any lower
until all the water is boiled off.

Personally, I'd expect that the marinade will get in the food not with the
vacuum, but with the pressure rising again: suck air out with a vacuum, marinade
bubbles. Suck more, marinade boils (probably a good thing, like stirring the
pot). Release the vacuum, and the marinade gets pushed into the holes where the
air was. Something like that?

Probably different if the goal is not marinating, but preservation: less air
means less oxygen means one way less for food to spoil. So suck air out, and
keep it out.

I think they put little teabags of iron filings in with those emergency rations
for that reason... OK, looked it up: "oxygen scavenger", often iron filings and
salt. The iron rusts away merrily in the presence of salt, like a car at the
seaside. This uses up the oxygen in the sealed container, like a MRE. This in
turn means the food keeps better. The benefit of removing the oxygen is listed
as "preventing oxidation" (yeah, I figured that...), so oils don't go rancid,
fruit doesn't go brown. Doesn't inhibit bacteria, though it does some molds. And
they pack some meats in a "controlled atmosphere", which probably means no
oxygen -- and maybe are careful mix of gases to make the meat look redder.



Thomas Prufer
Wow..hanging out on here is like picking up a few semester hours in food science. I been looking for a way to scavenge oxygen from packs of beef jerky. In fact was just fixing to send off for some high dollar food grade oxygen absorbers. Now I can make my own with a nail and small bag of salt or do you reckon a person could just put a nail in it since its already pretty salty? I bet they both work on the same principle most likely.

Amazon.com - Oxy-Sorb Oxygen Absorbers for Food Storage -
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I was talking about the effect in a chamber vacuum machine. And
yes it does appear as if it were boiling.

Brick said that.
Ok..sounds plausible to me. Its boiling. I stand corrected. Sorry. Only thing I ever noticed was when it cycled through the pump.
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Default Vacuum Marinating in FoodSaver-Type Bags - Myth?


On 7-Apr-2014, bigwheel > wrote:

> Wow..hanging out on here is like picking up a few semester hours in food
> science. I been looking for a way to scavenge oxygen from packs of beef
> jerky. In fact was just fixing to send off for some high dollar food
> grade oxygen absorbers. Now I can make my own with a nail and small bag
> of salt or do you reckon a person could just put a nail in it since its
> already pretty salty? I bet they both work on the same principle most
> likely.
>
> 'Amazon.com - Oxy-Sorb Oxygen Absorbers for Food Storage -'
> (http://tinyurl.com/nfzuyne)
>
> --
> bigwheel


Sorry to burst your bubble Bigwheel, but a solid nail isn't going to
feed the dog. You'll need good old iron filings to get the job done. It
has to do with the amount of surface area of the iron as presented
to the salt. No doubt that it'll work though if you can get your hands
on a quantity of iron filings.

Brick.
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Default Vacuum Marinating in FoodSaver-Type Bags - Myth?


On 9-Apr-2014, bigwheel > wrote:

> ;1922267 Wrote:
> > On 8-Apr-2014, Thomas Prufer
lid
> > wrote:
> > -
> > On Mon, 7 Apr 2014 21:23:04 GMT,
wrote:
> > -
> > Sorry to burst your bubble Bigwheel, but a solid nail isn't going to
> > feed the dog. You'll need good old iron filings to get the job done.
> > It
> > has to do with the amount of surface area of the iron as presented
> > to the salt. No doubt that it'll work though if you can get your hands
> > on a quantity of iron filings.-
> >
> > What he said. (The nail will likely be zinc-plated, besides not having
> > enough
> > surface area.)
> >
> > But ebay and the net are full of people selling iron filings, for
> > showing
> > magnetic field lines in school. Alternatively, you could actually file
> > iron. Or
> > clean up that old BBQ/grill/smoker with an angle grinder and go over
> > the
> > dust
> > produced with a magnet. (If you do that, put the magnet in plastic bag
> > first.
> > Makes it a lot easier to get the iron dust back off the magnet...
> > BTDTGTTS,
> > ended up using hotmelt glue.)
> >
> >
> > Thomas Prufer-
> >
> > Gotta love those little bits of wisdom that jump out at me in this
> > group. I
> > never would have thought of that magnet in the plastic bag trick.
> >
> > Brick

>
> Well have about decided vacuum packing might be cheaper than the O2
> absorbers. I got in a five gallon bucket of dessicant pouches yesterday.
> Think that will prob work till I find some cheap and right sized
> recloseable vacuum bags.
>
> --
> bigwheel


My FoodSaver Vac machine has been pretty much on the back shelf
for a couple of years now due to the high cost of compatible bags. I
pay 7¢ to 9¢ for chamber vac compatible bags. For many items I can
snip open a bag, remove part of the contents and reseal the same
bag until the total contents are gone.

I couple of years ago, I was using a "Snorkel" Vac (Sinbo VS280)
machine which uses the cheap bags. Trouble is, that machine is
built too cheaply and doesn't hold up well. Also it suffers from the
same "suck the liquid into the machine" problem as the FoodSaver.

I finally saved my pennies long enough to get a chamber vac and
I'll never go back.

Brick
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