'k, today I went to "The Fatted Calf Charcuterie" in Napa, CA:

http://fattedcalf.com/

and picked up 2 pork porterhouse steaks, each about 1" thick and 14
oz. I'll have them for dinner tomorrow.

Anybody got a suggestion how to cook 'em?

-Zz
"Zz Yzx" rhymes with "physics"; or " Isaacs" if you prefer.
http://www.abandonedbutnotforgotten.com/zzyzx_road.htm

"Zz Yzx" > wrote in message
...
> 'k, today I went to "The Fatted Calf Charcuterie" in Napa, CA:
>
> http://fattedcalf.com/
>
> and picked up 2 pork porterhouse steaks, each about 1" thick and 14
> oz. I'll have them for dinner tomorrow.
>
> Anybody got a suggestion how to cook 'em?
>

better be careful around here. some folks only know pulled pork!

In article >,
Zz Yzx > wrote:

> 'k, today I went to "The Fatted Calf Charcuterie" in Napa, CA:
>
> http://fattedcalf.com/
>
> and picked up 2 pork porterhouse steaks, each about 1" thick and 14
> oz. I'll have them for dinner tomorrow.
>
> Anybody got a suggestion how to cook 'em?
>
> -Zz
> "Zz Yzx" rhymes with "physics"; or " Isaacs" if you prefer.
> http://www.abandonedbutnotforgotten.com/zzyzx_road.htm

Vac bag 'em and water bath the bags at 125F for 72 hours.
It's called 'soo veed'.

monroe(top with flavored alginate beads-mmm good eatin)

On Fri, 09 Dec 2011 18:01:18 -0800, Zz Yzx >
wrote:

>'k, today I went to "The Fatted Calf Charcuterie" in Napa, CA:
>
> http://fattedcalf.com/
>
>and picked up 2 pork porterhouse steaks, each about 1" thick and 14
>oz. I'll have them for dinner tomorrow.
>
>Anybody got a suggestion how to cook 'em?
>
>-Zz
>"Zz Yzx" rhymes with "physics"; or " Isaacs" if you prefer.
>http://www.abandonedbutnotforgotten.com/zzyzx_road.htm


I'd grill them to 140 degrees. Salt, pepper, garlic.

"Zz Yzx" wrote in message
...

'k, today I went to "The Fatted Calf Charcuterie" in Napa, CA:

http://fattedcalf.com/

and picked up 2 pork porterhouse steaks, each about 1" thick and 14
oz. I'll have them for dinner tomorrow.

Anybody got a suggestion how to cook 'em?

OK, this is how I do it.

I kosher salt the outside of each steak and put them on a wire rack in the
fridge for about 2 hours, plenty of time for osmosis to do it's thing
(pulling some of the moisture out of the meat and then soaking back in
taking some of the salt with it)

After 2 or so hours, remove the meat (still on the rack) and place on
counter to come to room temperature (this does 2 things, it helps the meat
to cook evenly and keeps the meat from sticking on the grill).

I use a infra-red grill cranked all the way up. If using charcoal (lump or
briqs) get the heat as high as possible...700F degrees or higher at the
grate. This will not really seal in the juices, but it will improve the
texture and flavor of the meat. Oil the grill with veg or canola oil. Grill
each steak till well charred on each side and internal temp of 130 degrees
F. Remove, grind some black pepper over each steak to taste, set aside, tent
with foil, and rest for 10 min. The internal temp should rise to about 135
for med-rare.

Garlic or chilli butter goes well over the top.

Done.

A tip: If using a broiler for indoor cooking, roll up some foil and place it
in the door of your oven to keep the door from closing all the way. This
will keep the thermostat from cutting off and lowering the broiler temp.

Good luck and enjoy!

Gene

snip

Vac bag 'em and water bath the bags at 125F for 72 hours.
It's called 'soo veed'.

monroe(top with flavored alginate beads-mmm good eatin)

Done that way you can kill someone.

72 hours?

WTF!

"Pico Rico" wrote in message ...


snip

better be careful around here. some folks only know pulled pork!

Do you EVER have anything useful to contribute?

Gene

On Dec 9, 9:28*pm, "Gene" > wrote:

> F. Remove, grind some black pepper over each steak to taste, set aside, tent

Seen this often enough to want to try this, thanks. Have always pre
peppered and don't mind the results, will see if they are better.

"tutall" wrote in message
...

On Dec 9, 9:28 pm, "Gene" > wrote:

> F. Remove, grind some black pepper over each steak to taste, set aside,
> tent

Seen this often enough to want to try this, thanks. Have always pre
peppered and don't mind the results, will see if they are better.

There are 2 issues with pre-peppering. The 1st is that you can burn off all
the pepper, 2nd is that what ever pepper is left can turn bitter. There is a
big difference between grilling a well peppered steak, and ROASTING a large
hunk of meat at a lower temp over a longer period of time when it comes to
pepper.

The point is that you have much more control over the final pepper taste if
you pepper the steak at the end. In THIS application anyway.

BTW, there is a reason behind leaving the steaks in the fridge for 2 hours
that I did not mention. Osmosis does not take 2 hours, not on a 1 inch
steak. But a good deal of the time in the fridge is intended to dry out the
surface of the meat, so that when you grill it, it does not "steam" but
comes up to searing temp fast.

Once again, this is my way. You might also put the meat in a 200 degree oven
for a little time to activate enzymes that will make the meat more tender. A
short cut of sorts to dry aging. But I really do not think that it is
effective on thin cuts of meat.

"Gene" > wrote in message
.com...
>
>
> "Zz Yzx" wrote in message
> ...
>
> 'k, today I went to "The Fatted Calf Charcuterie" in Napa, CA:
>
> http://fattedcalf.com/
>
> and picked up 2 pork porterhouse steaks, each about 1" thick and 14
> oz. I'll have them for dinner tomorrow.
>
> Anybody got a suggestion how to cook 'em?
>
> OK, this is how I do it.
>
> I kosher salt the outside of each steak and put them on a wire rack in the
> fridge for about 2 hours, plenty of time for osmosis to do it's thing
> (pulling some of the moisture out of the meat and then soaking back in
> taking some of the salt with it)
>
> After 2 or so hours, remove the meat (still on the rack) and place on
> counter to come to room temperature (this does 2 things, it helps the meat
> to cook evenly and keeps the meat from sticking on the grill).
>
> I use a infra-red grill cranked all the way up. If using charcoal (lump or
> briqs) get the heat as high as possible...700F degrees or higher at the
> grate. This will not really seal in the juices, but it will improve the
> texture and flavor of the meat. Oil the grill with veg or canola oil.
> Grill each steak till well charred on each side and internal temp of 130
> degrees F. Remove, grind some black pepper over each steak to taste, set
> aside, tent with foil, and rest for 10 min. The internal temp should rise
> to about 135 for med-rare.
>
> Garlic or chilli butter goes well over the top.
>
> Done.
>
> A tip: If using a broiler for indoor cooking, roll up some foil and place
> it in the door of your oven to keep the door from closing all the way.
> This will keep the thermostat from cutting off and lowering the broiler
> temp.
>

good ideas, including the use of what some people call "dry brining" (seems
like silly nomenclature to me, but it is out there in use).

I would kick it up a notch (several, actually) and skip the butter and use a
chasseur sauce. Or any other demi-based sauce. Here is a quickie (you can
adjust for quantity):

Ingredients:
a.. 2 Tbsp butter
b.. 1 cup sliced mushrooms
c.. ¼ cup chopped shallots
d.. 1 cup white wine
e.. 1 quart demi-glace
f.. 1 cup diced tomatoes
g.. 1 Tbsp chopped parsley
Preparation:
1.. In a heavy-bottomed saucepan, heat the butter over medium heat until
it's frothy. Add the mushrooms and shallots and sauté until the mushrooms
are soft and the shallots are translucent, about 5 minutes.


2.. Add the wine, heat until the liquid boils, then lower the heat a bit
and continue simmering until the liquid has reduced by about three-fourths.


3.. Add the demi-glace and the diced tomato, then lower heat to a simmer
and reduce for about 5 minutes.


4.. Stir in the chopped parsley and serve right away.
Makes about 1 quart of Chasseur Sauce.

"Gene" > wrote in message
news
>
>
> "Pico Rico" wrote in message ...
>
> snip
>
> better be careful around here. some folks only know pulled pork!
> Do you EVER have anything useful to contribute?
>
> Gene

yes. I got you past your first thought of pulled pork, didn't I?

Gene wrote:
> snip
>
> Vac bag 'em and water bath the bags at 125F for 72 hours.
> It's called 'soo veed'.
>
> monroe(top with flavored alginate beads-mmm good eatin)
>
> Done that way you can kill someone.
>
> 72 hours?
>
> WTF!

Monroe was being tongue-in-cheek as a tribute to our Kent.
--
Dave
"A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion,
butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance
accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders,
give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new
problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight
efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects."......
Robert Heinlein

On 10-Dec-2011, tutall > wrote:

> On Dec 9, 9:28*pm, "Gene" > wrote:
>
> > F. Remove, grind some black pepper over each steak to taste, set aside,
> > tent
>
> Seen this often enough to want to try this, thanks. Have always pre
> peppered and don't mind the results, will see if they are better.

We tend to fall into habits over a long period of time, often without
realizing that we actually prefer something different. Pepper is a good
case in point. How many people have actually paused to think about
how differently black pepper tastes when freshly ground rather then
cooked in some way. Who stops a minute before starting to cook to
decide how they will use pepper 'this time' and why. I have been
peppering my steaks before cooking for a long time. Now I want to
have some freshly seasoned at the table.
--
Brick(Better to remain silent and be thought a fool
then to speak up and remove all doubt)

On 10-Dec-2011, "Gene" > wrote:

> Vac bag 'em and water bath the bags at 125F for 72 hours.
> It's called 'soo veed'.
>
> monroe(top with flavored alginate beads-mmm good eatin)
>
> Done that way you can kill someone.
>
> 72 hours?
>
> WTF!

Botulism toxins are produced in an anaerobic environment
such as exists in low temperature heating of vacuum packed
foods. The idea of any food being held at 125F for 72 hours
without the protection of concentrated salt or acid scares the
shit out of me. Botulism is one of the deadliest toxins on the
planet. Clostridium botulinum exist naturally just about
everywhere. These bacteria are harmless in and of themselves,
but allowed to germinate and grow they produce the toxins
which are lethal.

--
Brick(Better to remain silent and be thought a fool
then to speak up and remove all doubt)

"Dave Bugg" wrote in message
...

Gene wrote:
> snip
>
> Vac bag 'em and water bath the bags at 125F for 72 hours.
> It's called 'soo veed'.
>
> monroe(top with flavored alginate beads-mmm good eatin)
>
> Done that way you can kill someone.
>
> 72 hours?
>
> WTF!

Monroe was being tongue-in-cheek as a tribute to our Kent.

Snip

Ah! I should have known that! Beer, it sure help make things clear (my
tongue-in-cheek now).

Thanks for clearing that up!

Gene

snip

I would kick it up a notch (several, actually) and skip the butter and use a
chasseur sauce. Or any other demi-based sauce. Here is a quickie (you can
adjust for quantity):

Ingredients:
a.. 2 Tbsp butter
b.. 1 cup sliced mushrooms
c.. ¼ cup chopped shallots
d.. 1 cup white wine
e.. 1 quart demi-glace
f.. 1 cup diced tomatoes
g.. 1 Tbsp chopped parsley
Preparation:
1.. In a heavy-bottomed saucepan, heat the butter over medium heat until
it's frothy. Add the mushrooms and shallots and sauté until the mushrooms
are soft and the shallots are translucent, about 5 minutes.


2.. Add the wine, heat until the liquid boils, then lower the heat a bit
and continue simmering until the liquid has reduced by about three-fourths.


3.. Add the demi-glace and the diced tomato, then lower heat to a simmer
and reduce for about 5 minutes.


4.. Stir in the chopped parsley and serve right away.
Makes about 1 quart of Chasseur Sauce.

Now that was useful! Well done.

Gene

"Gene" > wrote in message
om...
>
>
> snip
>
> I would kick it up a notch (several, actually) and skip the butter and use
> a
> chasseur sauce. Or any other demi-based sauce. Here is a quickie (you can
> adjust for quantity):
>
> Ingredients:
> a.. 2 Tbsp butter
> b.. 1 cup sliced mushrooms
> c.. ¼ cup chopped shallots
> d.. 1 cup white wine
> e.. 1 quart demi-glace
> f.. 1 cup diced tomatoes
> g.. 1 Tbsp chopped parsley
> Preparation:
> 1.. In a heavy-bottomed saucepan, heat the butter over medium heat until
> it's frothy. Add the mushrooms and shallots and sauté until the mushrooms
> are soft and the shallots are translucent, about 5 minutes.
>
>
> 2.. Add the wine, heat until the liquid boils, then lower the heat a bit
> and continue simmering until the liquid has reduced by about
> three-fourths.
>
>
> 3.. Add the demi-glace and the diced tomato, then lower heat to a simmer
> and reduce for about 5 minutes.
>
>
> 4.. Stir in the chopped parsley and serve right away.
> Makes about 1 quart of Chasseur Sauce.
>
> Now that was useful! Well done.
>
> Gene
>
How do you make demiglace? What recipe do you use? Are you able to buy it?

SNIP

How do you make demiglace? What recipe do you use? Are you able to buy it?

Go he

http://www.saveur.com/article/Recipe...ade-Demi-Glace

"Gene" > wrote in message
. com...
>
> SNIP
>
> How do you make demiglace? What recipe do you use? Are you able to buy
> it?
>
> Go he
>
> http://www.saveur.com/article/Recipe...ade-Demi-Glace
>
>
>

that is a good recipe. I was prepared to say never mind the espangnole
sauce step, just reduce the veal stock, possibly with added roasted mirepoix
and tomato product, and strain again. but, they got it right:
"Traditionally, the stock for demi-glace was thickened with a roux, but
modern chefs have shunned thickeners in favor of reducing stock to a pure,
more syrupy consistency."

I would deglaze with a hearty red wine, not water.

On Fri, 09 Dec 2011 18:01:18 -0800, Zz Yzx >
wrote:

>'k, today I went to "The Fatted Calf Charcuterie" in Napa, CA:
>
> http://fattedcalf.com/
>
>and picked up 2 pork porterhouse steaks, each about 1" thick and 14
>oz. I'll have them for dinner tomorrow.
>
>Anybody got a suggestion how to cook 'em?
>
>-Zz
>"Zz Yzx" rhymes with "physics"; or " Isaacs" if you prefer.
>http://www.abandonedbutnotforgotten.com/zzyzx_road.htm

Thanks for all the help. Here's what I did:

Rubbed w/ coarse salt, a little coars pepper, and garlic, let sit in
fridge ~ 2 hrs.

Took out and let sit at room temp for ~1 hr, then brushed with olive
oil.

Slapped 'em down on a TOO HOT Smokey Joe. Good thing I was attentive
and got 'em seared.... OK, a little over-seared. Then I went to
finish them in my pre-warmed Weber gas grill, but the propane was all
gone. So I finished them in the convection toaster oven.

Served with a fresh pear-apple-cranberry chutney off Epicurious
(modified).

Thanks a heap,
-Zz

"Gene" > wrote in message
. com...
>
> SNIP
>
> How do you make demiglace? What recipe do you use? Are you able to buy
> it?
>
> Go he
>
> http://www.saveur.com/article/Recipe...ade-Demi-Glace
>
>
The Saveur recipe above is pretty ridiculous. The ingredients are listed
below. Tomato paste in demi glace??? That's a joke, a very big one.

"10 lbs. veal bones
3 carrots, roughly chopped
2 onions, roughly chopped
1 white part of leek, roughly
chopped (optional)
1 Bouquet Garni
1 6-oz. can tomato paste"

Kent

"Kent" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Gene" > wrote in message
> . com...
>>
>> SNIP
>>
>> How do you make demiglace? What recipe do you use? Are you able to buy
>> it?
>>
>> Go he
>>
>> http://www.saveur.com/article/Recipe...ade-Demi-Glace
>>
>>
> The Saveur recipe above is pretty ridiculous. The ingredients are listed
> below. Tomato paste in demi glace??? That's a joke, a very big one.
>
> "10 lbs. veal bones
> 3 carrots, roughly chopped
> 2 onions, roughly chopped
> 1 white part of leek, roughly
> chopped (optional)
> 1 Bouquet Garni
> 1 6-oz. can tomato paste"
>
> Kent
>

you are wrong.

"Pico Rico" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Gene" > wrote in message
> . com...
>>
>> SNIP
>>
>> How do you make demiglace? What recipe do you use? Are you able to buy
>> it?
>>
>> Go he
>>
>> http://www.saveur.com/article/Recipe...ade-Demi-Glace
>>
>>
>>
>
> that is a good recipe. I was prepared to say never mind the espangnole
> sauce step, just reduce the veal stock, possibly with added roasted
> mirepoix and tomato product, and strain again. but, they got it right:
> "Traditionally, the stock for demi-glace was thickened with a roux, but
> modern chefs have shunned thickeners in favor of reducing stock to a pure,
> more syrupy consistency."
>
> I would deglaze with a hearty red wine, not water.
>
I was going to contest the roux as an ingredient. However in both of my
editions of the Larousse Gastronimique I found that roux is added when
making Sauce Espagnole. "horrors" That is then reduced further to Glace de
Viande, or Demi-Glace. That's never done today. Brown stock is reduced to
espagnole, and then on to demiglace. You wouldn't add wine unless you want
to flavor a sauce you're making with your demi-glace.

Kent

"Kent" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Pico Rico" > wrote in message
> ...
>>
>> "Gene" > wrote in message
>> . com...
>>>
>>> SNIP
>>>
>>> How do you make demiglace? What recipe do you use? Are you able to buy
>>> it?
>>>
>>> Go he
>>>
>>> http://www.saveur.com/article/Recipe...ade-Demi-Glace
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>> that is a good recipe. I was prepared to say never mind the espangnole
>> sauce step, just reduce the veal stock, possibly with added roasted
>> mirepoix and tomato product, and strain again. but, they got it right:
>> "Traditionally, the stock for demi-glace was thickened with a roux, but
>> modern chefs have shunned thickeners in favor of reducing stock to a
>> pure, more syrupy consistency."
>>
>> I would deglaze with a hearty red wine, not water.
>>
> I was going to contest the roux as an ingredient. However in both of my
> editions of the Larousse Gastronimique I found that roux is added when
> making Sauce Espagnole. "horrors" That is then reduced further to Glace de
> Viande, or Demi-Glace. That's never done today. Brown stock is reduced to
> espagnole, and then on to demiglace. You wouldn't add wine unless you want
> to flavor a sauce you're making with your demi-glace.
>
> Kent
>


Brown stock is not reduced to espagnole - that requires a roux. Brown stock
can be reduced to demi, rather than using half brown and half espagnole.

The wine is for deglazing, and is commonly done. the tomato paste is also a
fundamental part of the brown stock.

Have you ever worked in a kitchen? Have you ever learned what different
chefs do?

"Pico Rico" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Kent" > wrote in message
> ...
>>
>> "Gene" > wrote in message
>> . com...
>>>
>>> SNIP
>>>
>>> How do you make demiglace? What recipe do you use? Are you able to buy
>>> it?
>>>
>>> Go he
>>>
>>> http://www.saveur.com/article/Recipe...ade-Demi-Glace
>>>
>>>
>> The Saveur recipe above is pretty ridiculous. The ingredients are listed
>> below. Tomato paste in demi glace??? That's a joke, a very big one.
>>
>> "10 lbs. veal bones
>> 3 carrots, roughly chopped
>> 2 onions, roughly chopped
>> 1 white part of leek, roughly
>> chopped (optional)
>> 1 Bouquet Garni
>> 1 6-oz. can tomato paste"
>>
>> Kent
>>
> you are wrong.
>
I don't think so. I'd be interested in your source. Tomato is not part of
any classical brown stock. I've seen recipes where one sneaks in a bit of
tomato in brown sauce as an enrichener, but not 6 oz of tomato paste for
only 10 lbs of veal bones. I do this myself, though in very tiny quantities,
and only when the usual richness of the veal portion of the brown stock is
lacking. As well, the brown stock that is reduced to demi-glace is usually
not just veal. Almost always you add some beef remnant, and you can add ham.
I haven't done the latter. In an old edition of the Larrousse, Prosper
Montagne did add ham. Veal adds the richness, but not enough flavor. The
sauce needs an additional meat ingredient.

Kent



Kent

"Kent" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Pico Rico" > wrote in message
> ...
>>
>> "Kent" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>>
>>> "Gene" > wrote in message
>>> . com...
>>>>
>>>> SNIP
>>>>
>>>> How do you make demiglace? What recipe do you use? Are you able to buy
>>>> it?
>>>>
>>>> Go he
>>>>
>>>> http://www.saveur.com/article/Recipe...ade-Demi-Glace
>>>>
>>>>
>>> The Saveur recipe above is pretty ridiculous. The ingredients are listed
>>> below. Tomato paste in demi glace??? That's a joke, a very big one.
>>>
>>> "10 lbs. veal bones
>>> 3 carrots, roughly chopped
>>> 2 onions, roughly chopped
>>> 1 white part of leek, roughly
>>> chopped (optional)
>>> 1 Bouquet Garni
>>> 1 6-oz. can tomato paste"
>>>
>>> Kent
>>>
>> you are wrong.
>>
> I don't think so. I'd be interested in your source. Tomato is not part
> of any classical brown stock. I've seen recipes where one sneaks in a bit
> of tomato in brown sauce as an enrichener, but not 6 oz of tomato paste
> for only 10 lbs of veal bones. I do this myself, though in very tiny
> quantities, and only when the usual richness of the veal portion of the
> brown stock is lacking. As well, the brown stock that is reduced to
> demi-glace is usually not just veal. Almost always you add some beef
> remnant, and you can add ham. I haven't done the latter. In an old edition
> of the Larrousse, Prosper Montagne did add ham. Veal adds the richness,
> but not enough flavor. The sauce needs an additional meat ingredient.
>
> Kent


Professional Cooking, by Gisslen, shows 10 pounds of veal bones and 1 pound
of tomatoes or puree. I have used paste (not quite so much, but six ounces
would not be overdoing it).

You do not need an "additional meat ingredient" when reducing brown stock to
demi. But you can if you wish.

I think a few posts ago you seemed to indicate you never made demi. Now you
are an expert. Stop posting and asking questions, you already know it all.

"Pico Rico" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Kent" > wrote in message
> ...
>>
>> "Pico Rico" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>>
>>> "Kent" > wrote in message
>>> ...
>>>>
>>>> "Gene" > wrote in message
>>>> . com...
>>>>>
>>>>> SNIP
>>>>>
>>>>> How do you make demiglace? What recipe do you use? Are you able to
>>>>> buy it?
>>>>>
>>>>> Go he
>>>>>
>>>>> http://www.saveur.com/article/Recipe...ade-Demi-Glace
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> The Saveur recipe above is pretty ridiculous. The ingredients are
>>>> listed below. Tomato paste in demi glace??? That's a joke, a very big
>>>> one.
>>>>
>>>> "10 lbs. veal bones
>>>> 3 carrots, roughly chopped
>>>> 2 onions, roughly chopped
>>>> 1 white part of leek, roughly
>>>> chopped (optional)
>>>> 1 Bouquet Garni
>>>> 1 6-oz. can tomato paste"
>>>>
>>>> Kent
>>>>
>>> you are wrong.
>>>
>> I don't think so. I'd be interested in your source. Tomato is not part
>> of any classical brown stock. I've seen recipes where one sneaks in a bit
>> of tomato in brown sauce as an enrichener, but not 6 oz of tomato paste
>> for only 10 lbs of veal bones. I do this myself, though in very tiny
>> quantities, and only when the usual richness of the veal portion of the
>> brown stock is lacking. As well, the brown stock that is reduced to
>> demi-glace is usually not just veal. Almost always you add some beef
>> remnant, and you can add ham. I haven't done the latter. In an old
>> edition of the Larrousse, Prosper Montagne did add ham. Veal adds the
>> richness, but not enough flavor. The sauce needs an additional meat
>> ingredient.
>>
>> Kent
>
>
> Professional Cooking, by Gisslen, shows 10 pounds of veal bones and 1
> pound of tomatoes or puree. I have used paste (not quite so much, but six
> ounces would not be overdoing it).
>
> You do not need an "additional meat ingredient" when reducing brown stock
> to demi. But you can if you wish.
>
> I think a few posts ago you seemed to indicate you never made demi. Now
> you are an expert. Stop posting and asking questions, you already know it
> all.
>
If I said that I wasn't expressing myself accurately. I have, a number of
times, though not recently, gathered up beef and veal bones, once a 100 lbs
and made my own brown stock, . I reduced that down to the espagnole level.
I don't know that I've ever reached the demi-glace level. When the stock
reaches the gelatinous stage I usually stop. I use that when I want to make
a brown sauce of some kind, usually adorning a beef dish. I have made my own
Tournedos Rossini and my own Boeuf Wellington. You must have a brown sauce
to adorn either dish.

Kent

snip
>
>I think maybe they get away with calling things stupid names these days
>because all the meat is coming to the grocers as subprimal cuts, or even
>precut, and they don't have some cuts at all. It never used to be unusual to
>see a bone in pork chop, but now all you see is boneless, and once in a
>while, some rib chops, which I love. Most grocers want to do as little meat
>processing as possible. So now a bone in pork chop is so rare it's deserving
>of a stupid name. And it's all kinds of meat, not just pork. I would bet
>that if you asked the first meat department worker you could find in your
>grocery store (I hesitate to call them butchers or meatcutters) when the
>last time was that they cut up a chicken, it would probably be at home, not
>at work, if at all. I wonder if some of the meatcutters know how to do
>anything more than slice off steaks from a boneless subprimal or run a pork
>butt through the bandsaw. They could do this with pork chops too, but they
>don't get the primal cuts they need to do this.
>
>MartyB
>

I went to Jewel for turkey legs a few years back. They came in 3 pks,
I needed 5. Soooooo, I asked the meat department Manager to repackage
them so I could have 5. He said no can do. They come in 3 packs. He
told me to freeze one. He told me all the meat comes pre-packed and
that they can not open a pack. He said they don't even have materials
to re-package. I know why. Can't let any CO2 get out of the package
now can we?

Meijer can repackage some meats, others not. And nope, they do not cut
meat either.

My local joint is Angelo's Fresh Market. I went there when beef shanks
were $2.25# looking to score a whole shank. Yep, they had them. They
get them in 2 packs and cut them down. I asked the meat mgr how much
per # for an entire shank. He showed me the cut up price. I told him I
am saving him labor cost buying a whole shank. He gave them to me for
$2.00# proved I would buy both shanks. DEAL.

Now if I want top quality I go to The Butcher on the Block in Lake In
The Hills Il.. http://www.butcherontheblock.com/

He cuts all of his meat from whole sides.. He is VERY expensive. He
only sells the top grade of choice (most people do not know that there
are 3 grades of choice). For those that want to check on grades of
choice go to http://www.steakperfection.com/grade/ . If his supplier
is out of choice then he is sent prime. He is not charged more for
this and passes his savings on to the customer. Once again, he is very
expensive, but he has the best meat I have found ANYWHERE. If you
order a "Prime Rib Roast", it is PRIME, not just a rib roast (choice).

Yep, the chains change cut names to make cuts sound "better". Jewel
and Miejer both sell the bottom grade of choice. That's about 2 grains
of fat above select. Hell, Jewel advertises their select cut as if it
is better than choice.

At Meijer, chuck can mean anything.

Long and the short of it is that YOU have to know one cut from
another. Or find a good butcher you can trust, and pay butcher prices.
Sometimes it is worth it. Other times not.

Gene

snip

>Anything with a t-bone or similar it needs to be grilled over flames.
>IMO. They do not lay flat and cook evenly in a pan.

snip

I do agree.

I also pick the damn thing up and chew all around the bone. And I
don't care where I'm at or who I am with. Best part! Closer to the
bone, the sweeter the meat. Kinda explains whey I always went for
skinny women

Gene

On Tue, 13 Dec 2011 21:25:18 -0600, Sqwertz >
wrote:

>On Fri, 09 Dec 2011 21:59:10 -0500, monroe, of course wrote:
>
>
>> Vac bag 'em and water bath the bags at 125F for 72 hours.
>> It's called 'soo veed'.
>
>Just put them in your hot garage for 72 hours. I'm sure the resident
>sous vide expert would agree.
>
>-sw

Ahhhh, but would putting them in a 72 degree garage for 1 hour work
just as well?

Or, cut them into 72 pieces and cook them at 125f for 1 hour!

Gene

On 13-Dec-2011, Zz Yzx > wrote:

> On Fri, 09 Dec 2011 18:01:18 -0800, Zz Yzx >
> wrote:
>
> >'k, today I went to "The Fatted Calf Charcuterie" in Napa, CA:
> >
> > http://fattedcalf.com/
> >
> >and picked up 2 pork porterhouse steaks, each about 1" thick and 14
> >oz. I'll have them for dinner tomorrow.
> >
> >Anybody got a suggestion how to cook 'em?
> >
> >-Zz
> >"Zz Yzx" rhymes with "physics"; or " Isaacs" if you prefer.
> >http://www.abandonedbutnotforgotten.com/zzyzx_road.htm
>
> Thanks for all the help. Here's what I did:
>
> Rubbed w/ coarse salt, a little coars pepper, and garlic, let sit in
> fridge ~ 2 hrs.
>
> Took out and let sit at room temp for ~1 hr, then brushed with olive
> oil.
>
> Slapped 'em down on a TOO HOT Smokey Joe. Good thing I was attentive
> and got 'em seared.... OK, a little over-seared. Then I went to
> finish them in my pre-warmed Weber gas grill, but the propane was all
> gone. So I finished them in the convection toaster oven.
>
> Served with a fresh pear-apple-cranberry chutney off Epicurious
> (modified).
>
> Thanks a heap,
> -Zz

Nice save with the toaster oven 'Z'.

--
Brick(Better to remain silent and be thought a fool
then to speak up and remove all doubt)

snip
>Thanks a heap,
>-Zz

Sooo, how did they turn out?

On 13-Dec-2011, "Kent" > wrote:

> "Gene" > wrote in message
> . com...
> >
> > SNIP
> >
> > How do you make demiglace? What recipe do you use? Are you able to buy
> > it?
> >
> > Go he
> >
> > http://www.saveur.com/article/Recipe...ade-Demi-Glace
> >
> >
> The Saveur recipe above is pretty ridiculous. The ingredients are listed
> below. Tomato paste in demi glace??? That's a joke, a very big one.
>
> "10 lbs. veal bones
> 3 carrots, roughly chopped
> 2 onions, roughly chopped
> 1 white part of leek, roughly
> chopped (optional)
> 1 Bouquet Garni
> 1 6-oz. can tomato paste"
>
> Kent

Tomato paste does two important things for me. It has a marvelous
effect on texture and acts as a flavor enhancer leaving no hint of
tomato flavor in the final dish. I use about a tablespoonful per quart
of product. Best guess since I seldom measure anything. Probably
most people think about MSG first when flavor enhancer is mentioned.
But, some will recognize Soy and Nuoc Mam right off. Research
'Umami' and you'll discover a number of flavor enhancers including
of all things, 'Anchovies'. As any good cook knows, if your guests
can identify the secret ingredient(s) then you used too much. Likewise,
if they find the dish wanting, you probably didn't use enough.

I find no fault whatever in the inclusion of tomato paste in a meat sauce.

--
Brick(Better to remain silent and be thought a fool
then to speak up and remove all doubt)

On Tue, 13 Dec 2011 22:49:44 -0600, Gene >
wrote:

>snip
>>Thanks a heap,
>>-Zz
>
>Sooo, how did they turn out?

VERRRRRY good. I managed to get them cooked to the proper doneness.
And the chutney was very good too. But the real credit goes to the
cut of meat to start with.

I'll go back to the meat shop.

-Zz

> wrote in message
.com...
>
> On 13-Dec-2011, "Kent" > wrote:
>
>> "Gene" > wrote in message
>> . com...
>> >
>> > SNIP
>> >
>> > How do you make demiglace? What recipe do you use? Are you able to buy
>> > it?
>> >
>> > Go he
>> >
>> > http://www.saveur.com/article/Recipe...ade-Demi-Glace
>> >
>> >
>> The Saveur recipe above is pretty ridiculous. The ingredients are listed
>> below. Tomato paste in demi glace??? That's a joke, a very big one.
>>
>> "10 lbs. veal bones
>> 3 carrots, roughly chopped
>> 2 onions, roughly chopped
>> 1 white part of leek, roughly
>> chopped (optional)
>> 1 Bouquet Garni
>> 1 6-oz. can tomato paste"
>>
>> Kent
>
> Tomato paste does two important things for me. It has a marvelous
> effect on texture and acts as a flavor enhancer leaving no hint of
> tomato flavor in the final dish. I use about a tablespoonful per quart
> of product. Best guess since I seldom measure anything. Probably
> most people think about MSG first when flavor enhancer is mentioned.
> But, some will recognize Soy and Nuoc Mam right off. Research
> 'Umami' and you'll discover a number of flavor enhancers including
> of all things, 'Anchovies'. As any good cook knows, if your guests
> can identify the secret ingredient(s) then you used too much. Likewise,
> if they find the dish wanting, you probably didn't use enough.
>
> I find no fault whatever in the inclusion of tomato paste in a meat sauce.
>
> --
> Brick
>

I frequently add tomato paste to enrich a brown sauce, and as you do, 1 TB
per quart. The recipe from Saveur magazine used 6 oz, or 12 TB of tomato
paste for a recipe that ended up with 2 cups of so called demi-glace.

I add garlic in very small amounts to enrich.

Kent

On 12/10/2011 8:57 PM, Kent wrote:

>>
> How do you make demiglace? What recipe do you use? Are you able to buy it?
>
>
>
http://culinaryarts.about.com/od/sauces/r/demiglaze.htm

It is best to do in the garage. For the pan, an oil change pan works
great. A weed torch is a great heat source. For a bit more texture,
adding a cup or so of garage sweepings does wonders.

Also, it is best to cover windows with a dark plastic so neighbors can't
see you creating this secret masterpiece.

BBQ
--
Vegetarian

An old Indian term for poor hunter...

"Pico Rico" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Kent" > wrote in message
> ...
>>
>> "Pico Rico" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>>
>>> "Kent" > wrote in message
>>> ...
>>>>
>>>> "Gene" > wrote in message
>>>> . com...
>>>>>
>>>>> SNIP
>>>>>
>>>>> How do you make demiglace? What recipe do you use? Are you able to
>>>>> buy it?
>>>>>
>>>>> Go he
>>>>>
>>>>> http://www.saveur.com/article/Recipe...ade-Demi-Glace
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> The Saveur recipe above is pretty ridiculous. The ingredients are
>>>> listed below. Tomato paste in demi glace??? That's a joke, a very big
>>>> one.
>>>>
>>>> "10 lbs. veal bones
>>>> 3 carrots, roughly chopped
>>>> 2 onions, roughly chopped
>>>> 1 white part of leek, roughly
>>>> chopped (optional)
>>>> 1 Bouquet Garni
>>>> 1 6-oz. can tomato paste"
>>>>
>>>> Kent
>>>>
>>> you are wrong.
>>>
>> I don't think so. I'd be interested in your source. Tomato is not part
>> of any classical brown stock. I've seen recipes where one sneaks in a bit
>> of tomato in brown sauce as an enrichener, but not 6 oz of tomato paste
>> for only 10 lbs of veal bones. I do this myself, though in very tiny
>> quantities, and only when the usual richness of the veal portion of the
>> brown stock is lacking. As well, the brown stock that is reduced to
>> demi-glace is usually not just veal. Almost always you add some beef
>> remnant, and you can add ham. I haven't done the latter. In an old
>> edition of the Larrousse, Prosper Montagne did add ham. Veal adds the
>> richness, but not enough flavor. The sauce needs an additional meat
>> ingredient.
>>
>> Kent
>
>
> Professional Cooking, by Gisslen, shows 10 pounds of veal bones and 1
> pound of tomatoes or puree. I have used paste (not quite so much, but six
> ounces would not be overdoing it).
>
> You do not need an "additional meat ingredient" when reducing brown stock
> to demi. But you can if you wish.
>
> I think a few posts ago you seemed to indicate you never made demi. Now
> you are an expert. Stop posting and asking questions, you already know it
> all.
>
Gisslen is wrong. Again, that's not a demiglace. It certainly ends up as a
sauce of sorts, but not a demiglace. Go to the following link:
http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_ss...refix=larrouse
You can probably find an edition of the Larousse Gastronomique in your local
library. That's where demiglace is defined, along with brown stock, sauce
espagnole, etc.

Kent





Kent

Kent wrote:
> "Pico Rico" > wrote in message
> ...
>>
>> "Kent" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>>
>>> "Pico Rico" > wrote in message
>>> ...
>>>>
>>>> "Kent" > wrote in message
>>>> ...
>>>>>
>>>>> "Gene" > wrote in message
>>>>> . com...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> SNIP
>>>>>>
>>>>>> How do you make demiglace? What recipe do you use? Are you able
>>>>>> to buy it?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Go he
>>>>>>
>>>>>> http://www.saveur.com/article/Recipe...ade-Demi-Glace
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>> The Saveur recipe above is pretty ridiculous. The ingredients are
>>>>> listed below. Tomato paste in demi glace??? That's a joke, a very
>>>>> big one.
>>>>>
>>>>> "10 lbs. veal bones
>>>>> 3 carrots, roughly chopped
>>>>> 2 onions, roughly chopped
>>>>> 1 white part of leek, roughly
>>>>> chopped (optional)
>>>>> 1 Bouquet Garni
>>>>> 1 6-oz. can tomato paste"
>>>>>
>>>>> Kent
>>>>>
>>>> you are wrong.
>>>>
>>> I don't think so. I'd be interested in your source. Tomato is not
>>> part of any classical brown stock. I've seen recipes where one
>>> sneaks in a bit of tomato in brown sauce as an enrichener, but not
>>> 6 oz of tomato paste for only 10 lbs of veal bones. I do this
>>> myself, though in very tiny quantities, and only when the usual
>>> richness of the veal portion of the brown stock is lacking. As
>>> well, the brown stock that is reduced to demi-glace is usually not
>>> just veal. Almost always you add some beef remnant, and you can add
>>> ham. I haven't done the latter. In an old edition of the Larrousse,
>>> Prosper Montagne did add ham. Veal adds the richness, but not
>>> enough flavor. The sauce needs an additional meat ingredient.
>>>
>>> Kent
>>
>>
>> Professional Cooking, by Gisslen, shows 10 pounds of veal bones and 1
>> pound of tomatoes or puree. I have used paste (not quite so much,
>> but six ounces would not be overdoing it).
>>
>> You do not need an "additional meat ingredient" when reducing brown
>> stock to demi. But you can if you wish.
>>
>> I think a few posts ago you seemed to indicate you never made demi. Now
>> you are an expert. Stop posting and asking questions, you
>> already know it all.
>>
> Gisslen is wrong. Again, that's not a demiglace. It certainly ends up
> as a sauce of sorts, but not a demiglace. Go to the following link:
> http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_ss_c_1_8?url=search-
> alias%3Dstripbooks&field-
> keywords=larousse+gastronomique&sprefix=larrouse You can probably
> find an edition of the Larousse Gastronomique in your local library.
> That's where demiglace is defined, along with brown stock, sauce
> espagnole, etc.
> Kent
>


oh good grief.

"Pico Rico" > wrote:

> oh good grief.

NSMF-my thoughts 'zackly when watching two knuckleheads fighting about
mothersauce recipes.
Sheesh.
Get a room you two.

monroe(alt.food.slapfight.over.recipes.tard.tard.t ard)

On Dec 14, 2:13*pm, bbq > wrote:
> On 12/10/2011 8:57 PM, Kent wrote:

> > How do you make demiglace? What recipe do you use? *Are you able to buy it?
>
> It is best to do in the garage. *For the pan, an oil change pan works
> great.

I strongly suggest using the classic metal pans, not one of those
cheap plastic/vinyl ones.
Though the plastic ones do offer something extra when heat is applied
to them.

>
> Also, it is best to cover windows with a dark plastic so neighbors can't
> see you creating this secret masterpiece.
>

Especially when the secret Silvyu (sp.?) ingredients are used.