Barbecue (alt.food.barbecue) Discuss barbecue and grilling--southern style "low and slow" smoking of ribs, shoulders and briskets, as well as direct heat grilling of everything from burgers to salmon to vegetables.

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Default smoked turkey...starting early


Getting an early start I know, but I am going to do a couple of trial runs
before the "BIG" one

I want to do a smoked turkey for T-day this year. I have done them in
the past on my old offset but I got really varied results raw to over done,
and cajun style, black on outside raw in middle. The flavor lacked, I
attribute that to lack of heat control and my lack of prep.. I'm a cheap
sort so yeah I'll be buying the routine frozen bird hopefully at 40
cents a pound. In the 12-18 range with an "enhanced" solution in it. I am
dubious brining works on these. I've read low temps for 10 plus hours but
It's not brisket why slow? I am leaning to apple if I can find some
good chunks
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Sqwertz > wrote in
:

> On 22 Sep 2011 01:53:36 GMT, Charly Horse wrote:
>
>> Getting an early start I know, but I am going to do a couple of trial
>> runs before the "BIG" one
>>
>> I want to do a smoked turkey for T-day this year. I have done
>> them in the past on my old offset but I got really varied results raw
>> to over done, and cajun style, black on outside raw in middle. The
>> flavor lacked, I attribute that to lack of heat control and my lack
>> of prep.. I'm a cheap sort so yeah I'll be buying the routine
>> frozen bird hopefully at 40 cents a pound. In the 12-18 range with
>> an "enhanced" solution in it. I am dubious brining works on these.
>> I've read low temps for 10 plus hours but It's not brisket why
>> slow? I am leaning to apple if I can find some good chunks

>
> You don't cook a turkey for 10 hours. Assuming 15 pounds, you should
> be able to get it done in 5 hours at 325F. Try and get a minimally
> injected turkey (mine are 4%) and brine it. You don't brine a
> Butterball, for example.
>
> I though you had an Apollo smoker?
>
> -sw
>


I do I should have made it clearer.. I "used" to use an offset.. But
will be coking on the Apollo. It's a lot easier to control temps on, I
can hold it at 325 just fine. it's the 225 I have trouble with
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"Charly Horse" <no.com> wrote in message
...
>
> Getting an early start I know, but I am going to do a couple of trial runs
> before the "BIG" one
>
> I want to do a smoked turkey for T-day this year. I have done them
> in
> the past on my old offset but I got really varied results raw to over
> done,
> and cajun style, black on outside raw in middle. The flavor lacked, I
> attribute that to lack of heat control and my lack of prep.. I'm a cheap
> sort so yeah I'll be buying the routine frozen bird hopefully at 40
> cents a pound. In the 12-18 range with an "enhanced" solution in it. I am
> dubious brining works on these. I've read low temps for 10 plus hours
> but
> It's not brisket why slow? I am leaning to apple if I can find some
> good chunks
>
>

I've smoked a number of turkeys in the past with very good results. I use a
Luhr Jensen Little Chief smoker. The Technique is different than the usual
250F low and slow smoker used for brisket .
http://prostores4.carrierzone.com/se...e-Chief/Detail

I brine the turkey, overnight at least. Luhr Jensen says to brine with a
very strong salt solution[1/2 cup salt to 1 quart water]. I think I've done
that once and then reverted to the less salty brines.

Then the turkey goes into the smoker for 4-6 hours at about 145F, more or
less depending on the outside temp. During that time it's smoked, not
cooked. After that it goes into anything you want to use to bake the turkey
at 350F. Since the turkey is smoked, you can bake in your indoor oven and
not lose anything. I use the Weber kettle, though, on a rainy day there
isn't any reason to not cook inside.

What's needed with fowl and fish is to separate the smoking from the
cooking. You can smoke turkey as above, and then put it in the frig for
several days and then roast it. Almost all commercial home smokers bake at
about 225-250F, which slowly brings the meat, after 8-10 hours, to the temp.
you want. As you point out, this doesn't work with turkey or seafood. You
have to separate the smoking from the cooking.

I use the Luhr Jensen Little Chief which lets me smoke low. I think it'd be
pretty tricky to pull this off with a bullet smoker. With an offset you
might be able to smoke at 145F. The important thing is that you're smoking
first, and roasting after. With brisket you're very slowly smoking and
roasting over 8-10 hours. I don't think that works with larger fowl.

As a certified tightwad I do the above routinely with low priced supermarket
turkey. To brine, use a 2.5 gallon Hefty Ziploc bag. It will hold a turkey
up to about 14lb.

Cheers,

Kent



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On Thu, 22 Sep 2011 10:07:58 -0500, Sqwertz wrote:

> On 22 Sep 2011 01:53:36 GMT, Charly Horse wrote:
>
>> Getting an early start I know, but I am going to do a couple of trial runs
>> before the "BIG" one
>>
>> I want to do a smoked turkey for T-day this year. I have done them in
>> the past on my old offset but I got really varied results raw to over done,
>> and cajun style, black on outside raw in middle. The flavor lacked, I
>> attribute that to lack of heat control and my lack of prep.. I'm a cheap
>> sort so yeah I'll be buying the routine frozen bird hopefully at 40
>> cents a pound. In the 12-18 range with an "enhanced" solution in it. I am
>> dubious brining works on these. I've read low temps for 10 plus hours but
>> It's not brisket why slow? I am leaning to apple if I can find some
>> good chunks

>
> You don't cook a turkey for 10 hours. Assuming 15 pounds, you should
> be able to get it done in 5 hours at 325F. Try and get a minimally
> injected turkey (mine are 4%) and brine it. You don't brine a
> Butterball, for example.
>
> I though you had an Apollo smoker?
>
> -sw



Those stinking commercial turkeys are bland as hell to start with and
there's no way in Hell you're gonna get really good smoke penetration
before it's done at reasonable turkey smoking temps 300 and above.

Brine it, yes.
Inject it, definitely.

I can't stand white meat from any bird unless it's been brined and injected
liberally.

Shoot that breast up like a junkie who just won the lottery. The dark meat
has flavor of it's own and doesn't need so much help, but a little doesn't
hurt.

Read up on the art of injecting. You don't just stick it in and squirt
like sex back in high school.

I like honey and butter in equal portions (or whatever, I don't measure
anything) melted to injectable consistency with a good bit of good garlic
powder added in.

Throw the pop-up timer that comes with the bird in the trash the minute you
unwrap the bird. They pop somewhere around 180 and will gaurantee a dry
breast.
Never ever cook the breast past 170. Pull it from the heat before 170 and
let it coast up.

Never cut into the bird until it has rested for 30 minutes or more. That
cooling period prevents the explosive release of all the juices. Juices
are good, they should be kept in the meat.

Finally, no matter how good the breast is when you're finally sitting at
the table eating, it will be as dry as sawdust after one night in the
fridge.

That's one reason I quit barbecueing so much. There's no way I've found to
reproduce the flavor of "right off the pit".
AFAIK, it's a one day deal. Cook it, eat it, love it. It might as well be
a Swanson TV dinner the next day.


TFM®
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On 22 Sep 2011 16:27:51 GMT, Charly Horse wrote:

> Sqwertz > wrote in
> :
>
>> On 22 Sep 2011 01:53:36 GMT, Charly Horse wrote:
>>
>>> Getting an early start I know, but I am going to do a couple of trial
>>> runs before the "BIG" one
>>>
>>> I want to do a smoked turkey for T-day this year. I have done
>>> them in the past on my old offset but I got really varied results raw
>>> to over done, and cajun style, black on outside raw in middle. The
>>> flavor lacked, I attribute that to lack of heat control and my lack
>>> of prep.. I'm a cheap sort so yeah I'll be buying the routine
>>> frozen bird hopefully at 40 cents a pound. In the 12-18 range with
>>> an "enhanced" solution in it. I am dubious brining works on these.
>>> I've read low temps for 10 plus hours but It's not brisket why
>>> slow? I am leaning to apple if I can find some good chunks

>>
>> You don't cook a turkey for 10 hours. Assuming 15 pounds, you should
>> be able to get it done in 5 hours at 325F. Try and get a minimally
>> injected turkey (mine are 4%) and brine it. You don't brine a
>> Butterball, for example.
>>
>> I though you had an Apollo smoker?
>>
>> -sw
>>

>
> I do I should have made it clearer.. I "used" to use an offset.. But
> will be coking on the Apollo. It's a lot easier to control temps on, I
> can hold it at 325 just fine. it's the 225 I have trouble with



225 is a ridiculous temp to try to hold. If 325 is where the cooker wants
to cook, let it.
It's more about the quality of the fire than anything.

TFM®


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TFM® > wrote in
:

>
>> I do I should have made it clearer.. I "used" to use an
>> offset.. But will be coking on the Apollo. It's a lot easier to
>> control temps on, I can hold it at 325 just fine. it's the
>> 225 I have trouble with

>
>
> 225 is a ridiculous temp to try to hold. If 325 is where the cooker
> wants to cook, let it.
> It's more about the quality of the fire than anything.
>
> TFM®



I have to agree with you, On my gf's WSM I can hold it down in the
225-250 range without choking it, This apollo is bigger and it wants to
run a bit hotter. If I try to take it much below 300 it dies out on me but
if I know where it's gonna be and it's stable I can adjust.
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On 24-Sep-2011, =?iso-8859-1?Q?TFM=AE?= > wrote:

> On Sat, 24 Sep 2011 02:03:07 GMT, Brick wrote:
>


.. . .

> > Oh yeh, I got me a new toy: Vac Master VP112 chamber machine. I'm
> > in love with a hunk of plastic and steel.

>
> Congrats on the new toy.
> Unfortunately I've never had the equipment to test that reheating method
> with my own BBQ.
> The reasoning is sound and I have no reason to doubt that it would work
> well with a good initial product.
>
> TFM®


I'm not about to say that it's as good as fresh from the pit because nothing
is. But, I think it preserves the original a little better then any other
method
I know of. The next best procedure(s) is to convert the original into some
thing else. Simmering in sauce of some kind or even a pot of beans
produces a product which is highly palatable and pretty much recognizable
as BBQ. Probably the least palatable, but nevertheless still wholesome is
simply reheating in a (shudder) microwave. Face it people, late at night on
top of several adult beverages, the microwave gets a lot of play.

As for vacuum devices, I now have experience with three types. I have/had
a Sinbo VS280 snorkel sealer, a FoodSaver II channel bag sealer and now
the ARY VacMaster VP112 chamber machine. They all have their advantages
and drawbacks.

The snorkel sealer is initially the cheapest, uses cheapest bags, but is a
little
harder to use. It uses minimal counter space.

The channel bag machine(s) is still reasonably priced, but uses rather
expensive
texture surface channel bags. It uses minimal counter space.

The Chamber machine(s) cost considerably more, are much heavier and take
up a lot more counter space. But they evacuate and seal most any kind of
bag including the cheapest 3 mil mylar bags at about 6¢/ea. Quick, very
easy to use and can vacuum soup without freezing first. Top of the line for
quick freezing fresh meat without losing any of the juice.

If you can dream about a Klose or Tejas smoker pit, you might as well
include a decent chamber vacuum machine in the same dream. Oh, throw
in a larger freezer because you'll eventually need it too.

--
Brick(Too soon old and too late smart)
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On Sep 24, 6:12*am, Sqwertz > wrote:
> On Thu, 22 Sep 2011 23:12:21 -0700, Kent wrote:


> Everybody known by now that Kent is an idiot, right? *Please don't try
> this at home. *This method is reserved for Kent and his soon to be
> poisoned family.
>


A dangerous idiot, he should have a permament sig stating :"listening
to my advice is dangerous to your health".

Especially when it comes to poultry.

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On Sat, 24 Sep 2011 13:52:11 GMT, Brick wrote:

> On 24-Sep-2011, =?iso-8859-1?Q?TFM=AE?= > wrote:
>
>> On Sat, 24 Sep 2011 02:03:07 GMT, Brick wrote:
>>

>
> . . .
>
>>> Oh yeh, I got me a new toy: Vac Master VP112 chamber machine. I'm
>>> in love with a hunk of plastic and steel.

>>
>> Congrats on the new toy.
>> Unfortunately I've never had the equipment to test that reheating method
>> with my own BBQ.
>> The reasoning is sound and I have no reason to doubt that it would work
>> well with a good initial product.
>>
>> TFM®

>
> I'm not about to say that it's as good as fresh from the pit because nothing
> is. But, I think it preserves the original a little better then any other
> method
> I know of. The next best procedure(s) is to convert the original into some
> thing else. Simmering in sauce of some kind or even a pot of beans
> produces a product which is highly palatable and pretty much recognizable
> as BBQ. Probably the least palatable, but nevertheless still wholesome is
> simply reheating in a (shudder) microwave. Face it people, late at night on
> top of several adult beverages, the microwave gets a lot of play.
>
> As for vacuum devices, I now have experience with three types. I have/had
> a Sinbo VS280 snorkel sealer, a FoodSaver II channel bag sealer and now
> the ARY VacMaster VP112 chamber machine. They all have their advantages
> and drawbacks.
>
> The snorkel sealer is initially the cheapest, uses cheapest bags, but is a
> little
> harder to use. It uses minimal counter space.
>
> The channel bag machine(s) is still reasonably priced, but uses rather
> expensive
> texture surface channel bags. It uses minimal counter space.
>
> The Chamber machine(s) cost considerably more, are much heavier and take
> up a lot more counter space. But they evacuate and seal most any kind of
> bag including the cheapest 3 mil mylar bags at about 6¢/ea. Quick, very
> easy to use and can vacuum soup without freezing first. Top of the line for
> quick freezing fresh meat without losing any of the juice.
>
> If you can dream about a Klose or Tejas smoker pit, you might as well
> include a decent chamber vacuum machine in the same dream. Oh, throw
> in a larger freezer because you'll eventually need it too.


You should discuss this with Master Chef Richard Cammpbell. He's looking
for a chamber vacuum.

TFM®
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On 24-Sep-2011, =?iso-8859-1?Q?TFM=AE?= > wrote:

> On Sat, 24 Sep 2011 13:52:11 GMT, Brick wrote:
>
> > On 24-Sep-2011, =?iso-8859-1?Q?TFM=AE?= >
> > wrote:
> >
> >> On Sat, 24 Sep 2011 02:03:07 GMT, Brick wrote:
> >>

> >
> > . . .
> >
> >>> Oh yeh, I got me a new toy: Vac Master VP112 chamber machine. I'm
> >>> in love with a hunk of plastic and steel.
> >>
> >> Congrats on the new toy.
> >> Unfortunately I've never had the equipment to test that reheating
> >> method
> >> with my own BBQ.
> >> The reasoning is sound and I have no reason to doubt that it would work
> >> well with a good initial product.
> >>
> >> TFM®

> >
> > I'm not about to say that it's as good as fresh from the pit because
> > nothing
> > is. But, I think it preserves the original a little better then any
> > other
> > method
> > I know of. The next best procedure(s) is to convert the original into
> > some
> > thing else. Simmering in sauce of some kind or even a pot of beans
> > produces a product which is highly palatable and pretty much
> > recognizable
> > as BBQ. Probably the least palatable, but nevertheless still wholesome
> > is
> > simply reheating in a (shudder) microwave. Face it people, late at night
> > on
> > top of several adult beverages, the microwave gets a lot of play.
> >
> > As for vacuum devices, I now have experience with three types. I
> > have/had
> > a Sinbo VS280 snorkel sealer, a FoodSaver II channel bag sealer and now
> > the ARY VacMaster VP112 chamber machine. They all have their advantages
> > and drawbacks.
> >
> > The snorkel sealer is initially the cheapest, uses cheapest bags, but is
> > a
> > little
> > harder to use. It uses minimal counter space.
> >
> > The channel bag machine(s) is still reasonably priced, but uses rather
> > expensive
> > texture surface channel bags. It uses minimal counter space.
> >
> > The Chamber machine(s) cost considerably more, are much heavier and take
> > up a lot more counter space. But they evacuate and seal most any kind of
> > bag including the cheapest 3 mil mylar bags at about 6¢/ea. Quick, very
> > easy to use and can vacuum soup without freezing first. Top of the line
> > for
> > quick freezing fresh meat without losing any of the juice.
> >
> > If you can dream about a Klose or Tejas smoker pit, you might as well
> > include a decent chamber vacuum machine in the same dream. Oh, throw
> > in a larger freezer because you'll eventually need it too.

>
> You should discuss this with Master Chef Richard Cammpbell. He's looking
> for a chamber vacuum.
>
> TFM®


I should think Richard can find one himself. He may be accident prone,
but he's not stupid. Wait! Is there any inherent danger in the use of vac
machines? If there is, MCRC will find it. Or it will find him.

--
Brick(Too soon old and too late smart)


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On 23 Sep 2011 21:33:55 GMT, Charly Horse wrote:


> Marty could ya point me to TFMs method?? I tried to find the
> brine and got some associated brines which look good but this is
> first I'v have seen mention of this "method" Is it a slow heat to start
> then rise to higher cooking temp?



http://www.activedwg.com/t5/Recipes/TurkeyBrining.htm

TFM®
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TFM® > wrote in
:

> On 23 Sep 2011 21:33:55 GMT, Charly Horse wrote:
>
>
>> Marty could ya point me to TFMs method?? I tried to find the
>> brine and got some associated brines which look good but this is
>> first I'v have seen mention of this "method" Is it a slow heat to
>> start then rise to higher cooking temp?

>
>
> http://www.activedwg.com/t5/Recipes/TurkeyBrining.htm
>
> TFM®
>


thanks muchly
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"Kent" > wrote in :

> Charlie, the other posters in this thread are wrong. The Luhr Jensen
> "Little and Big Chief" smokers have been manufactured more than 40
> years. They smoke at 145F at most. The smoking occurs at a lower temp,
> if you smoke later in the year when it's cool outside.
>
> Fish and poultry must be smoked for a longer time and at a lower
> temperature. This is the reason no one in this thread has smoked
> turkey successfully. The meat is initially smoked, not cooked. After
> the smoking you roast to your safe eating temperature. The latter, of
> course is very important. As has been pointed out in this thread if
> you smoke at a higher temp. you dry out the meat to the point where
> it's not edible.
>
> You have to smoke longest with turkey. I smoke 4 hours at least,
> though only after brining, as the Luhr Jensen recipe manual says.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Kent,
>


Well Kent I don't mean a smoke cured turkey but a turkey with a smoked
flavor. You know like we say we are gonna smoke a brisket. I am not
trying to preserve it. I am after all gonna eat the dang thing. In my area
it's seldom below 40 outside until we get close to end of December and
there is no way I'm putting poultry fish or any other meat out for an
extended time period smoke or no smoke present.Perhaps the smoke itself
somehow kills the pathogens I dunno


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"Charly Horse" <no.com> wrote in message
...
> "Kent" > wrote in :
>
>> Charlie, the other posters in this thread are wrong. The Luhr Jensen
>> "Little and Big Chief" smokers have been manufactured more than 40
>> years. They smoke at 145F at most. The smoking occurs at a lower temp,
>> if you smoke later in the year when it's cool outside.
>>
>> Fish and poultry must be smoked for a longer time and at a lower
>> temperature. This is the reason no one in this thread has smoked
>> turkey successfully. The meat is initially smoked, not cooked. After
>> the smoking you roast to your safe eating temperature. The latter, of
>> course is very important. As has been pointed out in this thread if
>> you smoke at a higher temp. you dry out the meat to the point where
>> it's not edible.
>>
>> You have to smoke longest with turkey. I smoke 4 hours at least,
>> though only after brining, as the Luhr Jensen recipe manual says.
>>
>> Cheers,
>>
>> Kent,
>>

>
> Well Kent I don't mean a smoke cured turkey but a turkey with a smoked
> flavor. You know like we say we are gonna smoke a brisket. I am not
> trying to preserve it. I am after all gonna eat the dang thing. In my area
> it's seldom below 40 outside until we get close to end of December and
> there is no way I'm putting poultry fish or any other meat out for an
> extended time period smoke or no smoke present.Perhaps the smoke itself
> somehow kills the pathogens I dunno
>
>

I just brine routinely when I smoke or roast turkeys, only to alter the salt
and water content of the meat. There isn't anything in the brine that
"cures". When you reach a certain salt level I suppose one could think that
you are actually curing.







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Sqwertz wrote:
> On Thu, 22 Sep 2011 23:12:21 -0700, Kent wrote:
>
>> "Charly Horse" <no.com> wrote in message
>> ...
>>>
>>> Getting an early start I know, but I am going to do a couple of
>>> trial runs before the "BIG" one
>>>
>>> I want to do a smoked turkey for T-day this year. I have done
>>> them in
>>> the past on my old offset but I got really varied results raw to
>>> over done,
>>> and cajun style, black on outside raw in middle. The flavor
>>> lacked, I attribute that to lack of heat control and my lack of
>>> prep.. I'm a cheap sort so yeah I'll be buying the routine frozen
>>> bird hopefully at 40 cents a pound. In the 12-18 range with an
>>> "enhanced" solution in it. I am dubious brining works on these.
>>> I've read low temps for 10 plus hours but
>>> It's not brisket why slow? I am leaning to apple if I can find
>>> some good chunks
>>>
>>>

>> I've smoked a number of turkeys in the past with very good results.




Snipped a big bunch of kent's bull shit, mind altering, sure to make normal
people sick brining/smoking techniques


>>
>> As a certified tightwad I do the above routinely with low priced
>> supermarket turkey. To brine, use a 2.5 gallon Hefty Ziploc bag. It
>> will hold a turkey up to about 14lb.

>
> Everybody known by now that Kent is an idiot, right? Please don't try
> this at home. This method is reserved for Kent and his soon to be
> poisoned family.
>
> -sw


Ya butt,,,,,

he doesn't talk about brining in his garage any more. At least THAT part
is an improvement. Maybe he did get sick the last time he brined outside
over night but just won't admit it? I know for fact that kent's brining
methods have killed more than just a few of his brain cells.


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