Barbecue (alt.food.barbecue) Discuss barbecue and grilling--southern style "low and slow" smoking of ribs, shoulders and briskets, as well as direct heat grilling of everything from burgers to salmon to vegetables.

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Default Smoking Salmon in a WSM

I'm trying to smoke my first salmon today. I brined overnight and stuck
into my beloved WSM. In an effort to keep the temps to 140F, I (used the
minion method, just as all my other smoking activites), I kept the lower
vents as *closed* as possible.

Well, now I'll well over 250F, thinking I should have thought about this
more, and severly limited the qty of lump... maybe just to the lump in my
charcoal starter.

So, can anyone give me some pointers:

1) How will this salmon come out? I can't imagine it being bad, but not
like I was hoping. I'll cook it to ~160F and see, this ship has sailed.
;-)

2) How does one keep a WSM ~140F. Maybe just pour (into an empty WSM)
whatever lump is in the charcoal starter and add more lump as needed?


I s'ppose nothing is lost here. I have two loins waiting in the wings for
their chance into the smoker. ;-)

--
Better living through smoking.
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Default Smoking Salmon in a WSM


"Heavy_Smoker" > wrote
> 2) How does one keep a WSM ~140F. Maybe just pour (into an empty WSM)
> whatever lump is in the charcoal starter and add more lump as needed?


Cook in January here in New England
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"Heavy_Smoker" > wrote in message
...
> I'm trying to smoke my first salmon today. I brined overnight and stuck
> into my beloved WSM. In an effort to keep the temps to 140F, I (used the
> minion method, just as all my other smoking activites), I kept the lower
> vents as *closed* as possible.
>
> Well, now I'll well over 250F, thinking I should have thought about this
> more, and severly limited the qty of lump... maybe just to the lump in my
> charcoal starter.
>
> So, can anyone give me some pointers:
>
> 1) How will this salmon come out? I can't imagine it being bad, but not
> like I was hoping. I'll cook it to ~160F and see, this ship has sailed.
> ;-)
>
> 2) How does one keep a WSM ~140F. Maybe just pour (into an empty WSM)
> whatever lump is in the charcoal starter and add more lump as needed?
>
>
> I s'ppose nothing is lost here. I have two loins waiting in the wings for
> their chance into the smoker. ;-)
>
> Better living through smoking.
>
>

Are you trying to make "cold smoked salmon", or the regular smoked salmon? I
can't think of a name for the latter firmer smoked salmon.

I've tried to make cold smoked salmon a number of times in an electric and
in a bullet charcoal smoker. Neither worked. I believe you must make gravlax
from a good wild fresh salmon, and then smoke that at room temperature. I
think that's what the pros do. One of my attempts was at 150F with my Luhrs
Jensen and that overcooked the salmon. It turned out too firm.

If you're trying to make a firmer smoked salmon, I think it can be done, but
the smoking temp. must be much lower than the 225-250F. The WSM gives you
that temp when the water pan is full. It's difficult to get the WSM much
below that. I'd use miniscule charcoal ala Minion, and a very full water pan
and carefully adjust the bottom vents before you put the meat on. It should
go on the lower grate, as you know.

I had a somewhat humerous interchange with someone at the fish market
recently. She said she makes gravlax and adds liquid smoke! Horrors! I may
try it sometime.

In N. Cal right now the market price for fresh non farmed salmon is about
$15 a pound, frequently more. A good cold smoked salmon at Costco is just a
few dollars more. Today I saw a 1.5lb package for $19 something. That's
cheaper than fresh.

Good Luck,

Kent






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Default Smoking Salmon in a WSM

Kent said

> Are you trying to make "cold smoked salmon", or the regular smoked
> salmon? I can't think of a name for the latter firmer smoked salmon.


You think to much of me. I'm just trying to smoke some salmon. ;-)
I know that I'm not looking for cold smoking, no preservation, just
taste. This is my first swing into smoking fish.....

> If you're trying to make a firmer smoked salmon, I think it can be
> done, but the smoking temp. must be much lower than the 225-250F. The
> WSM gives you that temp when the water pan is full. It's difficult to
> get the WSM much below that. I'd use miniscule charcoal ala Minion,
> and a very full water pan and carefully adjust the bottom vents
> before you put the meat on. It should go on the lower grate, as you
> know.


Next time I plan to try something like this. Very small amount of lump,
in an attempt to keep the fire very very small, and the temps ~140F.

> I had a somewhat humerous interchange with someone at the fish market
> recently. She said she makes gravlax and adds liquid smoke! Horrors!
> I may try it sometime.


Liquid smoke!. Oh man, such words in this newsgroup illicite immediate
wrath. Let the record show, I did not utter the unholy word. ;-)

Well, all this being said. Qing the salmon produced some of the best
fish I have ever had. Outstanding. If this is the worst smoked salmon I
ever produce, I'm looking forward to the future. Frankly, I'm tiring of
ribs/butts.... this may open up whole new experience.

The wife and stepson were also pleased.....

best regards,

--
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Default Smoking Salmon in a WSM


"Sqwertz" > wrote in message
...
> On Sun, 15 May 2011 22:37:22 +0000 (UTC), Heavy_Smoker wrote:
>
>> Kent said
>>
>>> Are you trying to make "cold smoked salmon", or the regular smoked
>>> salmon? I can't think of a name for the latter firmer smoked salmon.

>>
>> You think to much of me. I'm just trying to smoke some salmon. ;-)

>
> No, no, no. It's just Kent. Any time the subject of smoking fish
> comes up Kent is there to confuse matters.
>
> You want to hot smoke fish.


I want to cold smoke fish.





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Default Smoking Salmon in a WSM


"Sqwertz" > wrote in message
...
> On Sun, 15 May 2011 22:37:22 +0000 (UTC), Heavy_Smoker wrote:
>
>> Kent said
>>
>>> Are you trying to make "cold smoked salmon", or the regular smoked
>>> salmon? I can't think of a name for the latter firmer smoked salmon.

>>
>> You think to much of me. I'm just trying to smoke some salmon. ;-)

>
> No, no, no. It's just Kent. Any time the subject of smoking fish
> comes up Kent is there to confuse matters.
>
> You want to hot smoke fish.
>
>

And, have another drink, Sqwertz.


> He may have a point in the fact that you wanted to smoke at 140F until
> the fish reaches 160F. And that only happens in a Magic Smoker
> (available at your Magic Carpet dealer for about $7.2K)
>
> Brine and dry your fish. Use MINIMAL lump (see my previous post).
> Shoot for 180-200F for about an hour to hour.5. I don't use a thermo.
> I go by look and feel and knowing how hot the smoker was.
>
> A good fatty piece of salmon is fairly forgiving.
>
> Unless you're kent.
>
> -sw



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Default Smoking Salmon in a WSM

On Sun, 15 May 2011 16:25:33 +0000 (UTC), "Heavy_Smoker"
> wrote:

>I'm trying to smoke my first salmon today. I brined overnight and stuck
>into my beloved WSM. In an effort to keep the temps to 140F, I (used the
>minion method, just as all my other smoking activites), I kept the lower
>vents as *closed* as possible.
>
>Well, now I'll well over 250F, thinking I should have thought about this
>more, and severly limited the qty of lump... maybe just to the lump in my
>charcoal starter.
>
>So, can anyone give me some pointers:
>
>1) How will this salmon come out? I can't imagine it being bad, but not
>like I was hoping. I'll cook it to ~160F and see, this ship has sailed.
>;-)
>
>2) How does one keep a WSM ~140F. Maybe just pour (into an empty WSM)
>whatever lump is in the charcoal starter and add more lump as needed?
>
>
>I s'ppose nothing is lost here. I have two loins waiting in the wings for
>their chance into the smoker. ;-)


I smoke large trout all the time, 5-6 lb. I'm using a side-box smoker
and all i use is one chimney of charcoal and one chunk of apple wood.
When the coals die out the fish is done. Simplest thing I've ever
smoked.






Shinglhed
If you can't be a good example, then you'll just have to be a horrible
warning.
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"Sqwertz" > wrote in message
...
> On Sun, 15 May 2011 22:37:22 +0000 (UTC), Heavy_Smoker wrote:
>
>> Kent said
>>
>>> Are you trying to make "cold smoked salmon", or the regular smoked
>>> salmon? I can't think of a name for the latter firmer smoked salmon.

>>
>> You think to much of me. I'm just trying to smoke some salmon. ;-)

>
> No, no, no. It's just Kent. Any time the subject of smoking fish
> comes up Kent is there to confuse matters.
>
> You want to hot smoke fish.
>
> He may have a point in the fact that you wanted to smoke at 140F until
> the fish reaches 160F. And that only happens in a Magic Smoker
> (available at your Magic Carpet dealer for about $7.2K)
>
> Brine and dry your fish. Use MINIMAL lump (see my previous post).
> Shoot for 180-200F for about an hour to hour.5. I don't use a thermo.
> I go by look and feel and knowing how hot the smoker was.
>
> A good fatty piece of salmon is fairly forgiving.
>
> Unless you're kent.
>
> -sw
>
>

Your smoked steelhead in your post above looks pretty firm. I don't think it
could be called cold smoked in the usual sense that we know it.

Kent




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On May 16, 3:15*pm, "Kent" > wrote:
>
> Your smoked steelhead in your post above looks pretty firm. I don't think it
> could be called cold smoked in the usual sense that we know it.
>


Kent, when we see your name we invariably anticipate reading something
inane, and usually pretty amusing.

Your run is intact.

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On 5/15/2011 11:25 AM, Heavy_Smoker wrote:
> I'm trying to smoke my first salmon today. I brined overnight and stuck
> into my beloved WSM. In an effort to keep the temps to 140F, I (used the
> minion method, just as all my other smoking activites), I kept the lower
> vents as *closed* as possible.
>
> Well, now I'll well over 250F, thinking I should have thought about this
> more, and severly limited the qty of lump... maybe just to the lump in my
> charcoal starter.
>
> So, can anyone give me some pointers:
>
> 1) How will this salmon come out? I can't imagine it being bad, but not
> like I was hoping. I'll cook it to ~160F and see, this ship has sailed.
> ;-)
>
> 2) How does one keep a WSM ~140F. Maybe just pour (into an empty WSM)
> whatever lump is in the charcoal starter and add more lump as needed?
>
>
> I s'ppose nothing is lost here. I have two loins waiting in the wings for
> their chance into the smoker. ;-)
>



I have cold smoked cheese, I know in an ECB smoker. Don't remember if I
have tried it in the WSM. I used 3 hardwood briquettes kept close
together using a small ring. That got me to about 80F on a very cool
day (40F) or so.

It doesn't take much in coals to get that low of temperature. One of
the keys is to keep them close together, so they help each other stay
started.

Lump being irregular shape and size, hard to say how much to use. I was
told of the "use 3 briquettes method" and he held up 3 fingers.
Not 2, not 4, but 3 was the way I took that. It worked. Obviously,
that is a cool weather cook. You wanting to get a temperature of 140F,
my guess would be outside temperature 70F or less.

Good luck

BBQ
--
Vegetarian

An old Indian term for poor hunter...


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On May 17, 9:37*am, Sqwertz > wrote:
>
> Your "Anal-Vision"(tm) just saw all that, totally blew it off, and
> then told your brain "Cold Smoking". *Don't ever trust your brain,
> Kent.
>


Wouldn't it be something if Kent is one of those paranoid conspiracy
types that could be made to beleive his brain is in league with his
enemies?

Heh.
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"Sqwertz" > wrote in message
...
> On Sun, 15 May 2011 22:37:22 +0000 (UTC), Heavy_Smoker wrote:
>
>> Kent said
>>
>>> Are you trying to make "cold smoked salmon", or the regular smoked
>>> salmon? I can't think of a name for the latter firmer smoked salmon.

>>
>> You think to much of me. I'm just trying to smoke some salmon. ;-)

>
> No, no, no. It's just Kent. Any time the subject of smoking fish
> comes up Kent is there to confuse matters.
>
> You want to hot smoke fish.
>
> He may have a point in the fact that you wanted to smoke at 140F until
> the fish reaches 160F. And that only happens in a Magic Smoker
> (available at your Magic Carpet dealer for about $7.2K)
>
> Brine and dry your fish. Use MINIMAL lump (see my previous post).
> Shoot for 180-200F for about an hour to hour.5. I don't use a thermo.
> I go by look and feel and knowing how hot the smoker was.
>
> A good fatty piece of salmon is fairly forgiving.
>
> Unless you're kent.
>
> -sw
>
>

Why da ya want to: "You want to hot smoke fish"? Always?
To "smoke" a salmon, or other white fish @180+ grills it with a bit of smoke
flavor if ya used wood.

Kent

,smoking at 100F, sometimes less,





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Default Smoking Salmon in a WSM

On May 17, 6:19*pm, Omelet > wrote:

> But I've personally recently experienced this as a truth and made the
> mistake of not covering my ass sufficiently.
> --


Complaining about too much to cover? Or needing larger hands?

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On 5/17/2011 8:19 PM, Omelet wrote:
> In article
> >,
> > wrote:
>
>> On May 17, 9:37 am, > wrote:
>>>
>>> Your "Anal-Vision"(tm) just saw all that, totally blew it off, and
>>> then told your brain "Cold Smoking". Don't ever trust your brain,
>>> Kent.
>>>

>>
>> Wouldn't it be something if Kent is one of those paranoid conspiracy
>> types that could be made to beleive his brain is in league with his
>> enemies?
>>
>> Heh.

>
> "If you think they are out to get you, they probably are".
>
> --Anon
>
> But I've personally recently experienced this as a truth and made the
> mistake of not covering my ass sufficiently.



You could always wear your pants at your waist.. ;-)

BBQ
--
RIP Harmon Killebrew - Thanks for the good times on many Saturday
afternoons in the 60's at the old Met Stadium

Vegetarian

An old Indian term for poor hunter...
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"Omelet" > wrote in message
news
> In article >,
> "Pico Rico" > wrote:
>
>> "Sqwertz" > wrote in message
>> ...
>> > On Sun, 15 May 2011 22:37:22 +0000 (UTC), Heavy_Smoker wrote:
>> >
>> >> Kent said
>> >>
>> >>> Are you trying to make "cold smoked salmon", or the regular smoked
>> >>> salmon? I can't think of a name for the latter firmer smoked salmon.
>> >>
>> >> You think to much of me. I'm just trying to smoke some salmon. ;-)
>> >
>> > No, no, no. It's just Kent. Any time the subject of smoking fish
>> > comes up Kent is there to confuse matters.
>> >
>> > You want to hot smoke fish.

>>
>> I want to cold smoke fish.

>
> Only if you want fish jerky.
> For once, I have to agree with Steve.
>
> Fish is best smoked hot and fast.



I have had cold smoked fish which is quite tender, and hot smoked fish which
is more like jerky. I guess it depends on how well you do either. I think
the delicious photos by Sqwertz may have me thinking more about specific
techniques, rather than painting either hot or cold with a broad brush.




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On 5/18/2011 12:22 AM, Omelet wrote:
> In >,
> "Pico > wrote:
>
>> > wrote in message
>> ...
>>> On Sun, 15 May 2011 22:37:22 +0000 (UTC), Heavy_Smoker wrote:
>>>
>>>> Kent said
>>>>
>>>>> Are you trying to make "cold smoked salmon", or the regular smoked
>>>>> salmon? I can't think of a name for the latter firmer smoked salmon.
>>>>
>>>> You think to much of me. I'm just trying to smoke some salmon. ;-)
>>>
>>> No, no, no. It's just Kent. Any time the subject of smoking fish
>>> comes up Kent is there to confuse matters.
>>>
>>> You want to hot smoke fish.

>>
>> I want to cold smoke fish.

>
> Only if you want fish jerky.
> For once, I have to agree with Steve.
>
> Fish is best smoked hot and fast.



Isn't gravlax salmon that is cold smoked? I read up on gravelax a few
years ago. I remember that gravlax, like barbecue, means different
things to different people.

BBQ
--
RIP Harmon Killebrew - Thanks for the good times on many Saturday
afternoons in the 60's at the old Met Stadium

Vegetarian

An old Indian term for poor hunter...
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"bbq" > wrote in message
.com...
> On 5/18/2011 12:22 AM, Omelet wrote:
>> In >,
>> "Pico > wrote:
>>
>>> > wrote in message
>>> ...
>>>> On Sun, 15 May 2011 22:37:22 +0000 (UTC), Heavy_Smoker wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Kent said
>>>>>
>>>>>> Are you trying to make "cold smoked salmon", or the regular smoked
>>>>>> salmon? I can't think of a name for the latter firmer smoked salmon.
>>>>>
>>>>> You think to much of me. I'm just trying to smoke some salmon. ;-)
>>>>
>>>> No, no, no. It's just Kent. Any time the subject of smoking fish
>>>> comes up Kent is there to confuse matters.
>>>>
>>>> You want to hot smoke fish.
>>>
>>> I want to cold smoke fish.

>>
>> Only if you want fish jerky.
>> For once, I have to agree with Steve.
>>
>> Fish is best smoked hot and fast.

>
>
> Isn't gravlax salmon that is cold smoked? I read up on gravelax a few
> years ago. I remember that gravlax, like barbecue, means different things
> to different people.
>
> BBQ
> --
>

Gravlax is not smoked. It is fresh salmon dry cured by immersion in salt
sugar and dill. It's a Scandinavian dish with slightly different names in
each country. It's not smoked. The following is from Wikipedia. When I've
tried to smoke salmon, I've made gravlax and then smoked at as low a
temperature as possible. I believe the smoked salmon you see packaged at
Trader Joe's is made like this.
"During the Middle Ages, gravlax was made by fishermen, who salted the
salmon and lightly fermented it by burying it in the sand above the
high-tide line. The word gravlax comes from the Scandinavian word grav,
which literally means "grave" or "hole in the ground" (in Swedish,
Norwegian, Danish, Dutch and Estonian), and lax (or laks), which means
"salmon", thus gravlax means "buried salmon".

Today fermentation is no longer used in the production process. Instead the
salmon is "buried" in a dry marinade of salt, sugar, and dill, and cured for
a few days. As the salmon cures, by the action of osmosis, the moisture
turns the dry cure into a highly concentrated brine, which can be used in
Scandinavian cooking as part of a sauce.[1] This same method of curing can
be used for any fatty fish, but salmon is the most common."

Kent












Cold smoking


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"Pico Rico" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Sqwertz" > wrote in message
> ...
>> On Sun, 15 May 2011 22:37:22 +0000 (UTC), Heavy_Smoker wrote:
>>
>>> Kent said
>>>
>>>> Are you trying to make "cold smoked salmon", or the regular smoked
>>>> salmon? I can't think of a name for the latter firmer smoked salmon.
>>>
>>> You think to much of me. I'm just trying to smoke some salmon. ;-)

>>
>> No, no, no. It's just Kent. Any time the subject of smoking fish
>> comes up Kent is there to confuse matters.
>>
>> You want to hot smoke fish.

>
> I want to cold smoke fish.
>
>

This page from Wikipedia pretty much explains what we've been talking about.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smoked_salmon Basically cold smoked salmon is
gravlax smoked at a very very low temp.

If you can find good fresh salmon, it's very easy to make your own gravlax.
You don't have to smoke it. It tastes great without the smoke.

Kent



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> "During the Middle Ages, gravlax was made by fishermen, who salted the
> salmon and lightly fermented it by burying it in the sand above the
> high-tide line. The word gravlax comes from the Scandinavian word grav,
> which literally means "grave" or "hole in the ground" (in Swedish,
> Norwegian, Danish, Dutch and Estonian), and lax (or laks), which means
> "salmon", thus gravlax means "buried salmon".
>
> Today fermentation is no longer used in the production process. Instead
> the salmon is "buried" in a dry marinade of salt, sugar, and dill, and
> cured for a few days. As the salmon cures, by the action of osmosis, the
> moisture turns the dry cure into a highly concentrated brine, which can be
> used in Scandinavian cooking as part of a sauce.[1] This same method of
> curing can be used for any fatty fish, but salmon is the most common."
>



Why did it ferment in the middle ages, when it seems about the same
technique is used today?


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"Pico Rico" > wrote in message
...
>
>> "During the Middle Ages, gravlax was made by fishermen, who salted the
>> salmon and lightly fermented it by burying it in the sand above the
>> high-tide line. The word gravlax comes from the Scandinavian word grav,
>> which literally means "grave" or "hole in the ground" (in Swedish,
>> Norwegian, Danish, Dutch and Estonian), and lax (or laks), which means
>> "salmon", thus gravlax means "buried salmon".
>>
>> Today fermentation is no longer used in the production process. Instead
>> the salmon is "buried" in a dry marinade of salt, sugar, and dill, and
>> cured for a few days. As the salmon cures, by the action of osmosis, the
>> moisture turns the dry cure into a highly concentrated brine, which can
>> be used in Scandinavian cooking as part of a sauce.[1] This same method
>> of curing can be used for any fatty fish, but salmon is the most common."
>>

> Why did it ferment in the middle ages, when it seems about the same
> technique is used today?

I don't know. It may have fermented because of the lack of salt. I suspect
the term in Wikipedia is incorrect. But who knows?

Kent





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Kent wrote:
> "Pico > wrote in message
> ...
>
>>
>>> "During the Middle Ages, gravlax was made by fishermen, who salted the
>>> salmon and lightly fermented it by burying it in the sand above the
>>> high-tide line. The word gravlax comes from the Scandinavian word grav,
>>> which literally means "grave" or "hole in the ground" (in Swedish,
>>> Norwegian, Danish, Dutch and Estonian), and lax (or laks), which means
>>> "salmon", thus gravlax means "buried salmon".
>>>
>>> Today fermentation is no longer used in the production process. Instead
>>> the salmon is "buried" in a dry marinade of salt, sugar, and dill, and
>>> cured for a few days. As the salmon cures, by the action of osmosis, the
>>> moisture turns the dry cure into a highly concentrated brine, which can
>>> be used in Scandinavian cooking as part of a sauce.[1] This same method
>>> of curing can be used for any fatty fish, but salmon is the most common."
>>>
>>>

>> Why did it ferment in the middle ages, when it seems about the same
>> technique is used today?
>>

> I don't know. It may have fermented because of the lack of salt. I suspect
> the term in Wikipedia is incorrect. But who knows?
>
> Kent
>
>
>
>

That's the problem...you don't know. Please don't resort to Wikipedia.
We can all look there, bozo.
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Smile

Quote:
Originally Posted by Heavy_Smoker View Post
I'm trying to smoke my first salmon today. I brined overnight and stuck
into my beloved WSM. In an effort to keep the temps to 140F, I (used the
minion method, just as all my other smoking activites), I kept the lower
vents as *closed* as possible.

Well, now I'll well over 250F, thinking I should have thought about this
more, and severly limited the qty of lump... maybe just to the lump in my
charcoal starter.

So, can anyone give me some pointers:

1) How will this salmon come out? I can't imagine it being bad, but not
like I was hoping. I'll cook it to ~160F and see, this ship has sailed.
;-)

2) How does one keep a WSM ~140F. Maybe just pour (into an empty WSM)
whatever lump is in the charcoal starter and add more lump as needed?


I s'ppose nothing is lost here. I have two loins waiting in the wings for
their chance into the smoker. ;-)

--
Better living through smoking.

What did you use to brine the salmon? What kind of salmon are you using? I have smoked tons of salmon, some is better then others but its all usable, if I over smoke it or over brine it and it comes out dry I make salmon spread. As far as keeping the smoker very low I can only get it low by using very little fuel and adding as I need to, just remember fish with an internal temp of less then 160 is dangerous unless its sushi of course. After years I have what I consider the fool proof dry brine for salmon, 1 cup kosher salt, 4 cups dark brown sugar 15 cloves minced garlic, the time brining and smoking depends on the type of salmon and its fat content.
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