Jerry Avins wrote:
>
> Yes. "Kosher salt" would better be called "koshering salt" It is used
> to salt meat to make the meat kosher. (Kosher meat must come from
> ritually slaughtered animals, and not from the hindquarters. The

No, it can come from hindquarters. The reason it's
not usually done is that the major blood vessels
must be cut out. In the forequarters, they are
mostly on the outside of the cut, so this is relatively
easy to do. In the hindquarters, some of them are deep
within the cut, so you'd have to tear the cut apart
to dig them out.

On Apr 24, 6:46*pm, Mark Thorson > wrote:
> Jerry Avins wrote:
>
> > Yes. "Kosher salt" would better be called "koshering salt" It is used
> > to salt meat to make the meat kosher. (Kosher meat must come from
> > ritually slaughtered animals, and not from the hindquarters. The
>
> No, it can come from hindquarters. *The reason it's
> not usually done is that the major blood vessels
> must be cut out. *In the forequarters, they are
> mostly on the outside of the cut, so this is relatively
> easy to do. *In the hindquarters, some of them are deep
> within the cut, so you'd have to tear the cut apart
> to dig them out.

I'm a bit confused: the faq for rec.food.cuisine.jewish says the
sciatic nerve and certain parts of the fat must be removed from the
hindquarters.

spamtrap1888 wrote:
>
> On Apr 24, 6:46 pm, Mark Thorson > wrote:
> > Jerry Avins wrote:
> >
> > > Yes. "Kosher salt" would better be called "koshering salt" It is used
> > > to salt meat to make the meat kosher. (Kosher meat must come from
> > > ritually slaughtered animals, and not from the hindquarters. The
> >
> > No, it can come from hindquarters. The reason it's
> > not usually done is that the major blood vessels
> > must be cut out. In the forequarters, they are
> > mostly on the outside of the cut, so this is relatively
> > easy to do. In the hindquarters, some of them are deep
> > within the cut, so you'd have to tear the cut apart
> > to dig them out.
>
> I'm a bit confused: the faq for rec.food.cuisine.jewish says the
> sciatic nerve and certain parts of the fat must be removed from the
> hindquarters.

Quoting from Beef,_Veal_and_Lamb_Operations_ 4th edition
(University of Chicago, 1954), pages 69 and 70.

"Contrary to popular belief, both the fore quarter and
hind quarter of meat animals (except pork) are eligible
for consumption by the Jewish trade, if properly
handled by the kosher retailer. The requirement of the
religious law is that all veins must be removed before
delivery of meat to the consumer. For this reason,
the Jewish trade confines itself to the fore quarter,
from which the veins may be easily and quickly removed
with a minimum amount of mutilation of the meat."

"There is no objection on the part of the Jewish trade
to the hind quarter carcass cuts, such as loins and
rounds, if they are handled in accordance with the
religious requirements that the blood veins be removed.
The veins in these parts are very small and their
complete removal necessitates such mutilation of these
parts as to practically destroy their identity. For
this reason, the demand in this country is confined
to the fore quarter, which can be bought at lower
prices and from which the veins can be removed with
a minimum amount of mutilation."

"Mark Thorson" > wrote

>> >
>> > No, it can come from hindquarters. The reason it's
>> > not usually done is that the major blood vessels
>> > must be cut out.
>>
>> I'm a bit confused: the faq for rec.food.cuisine.jewish says the
>> sciatic nerve and certain parts of the fat must be removed from the
>> hindquarters.
>
> Quoting from Beef,_Veal_and_Lamb_Operations_ 4th edition
> (University of Chicago, 1954), pages 69 and 70.
>
> "Contrary to popular belief, both the fore quarter and
> hind quarter of meat animals (except pork) are eligible
> for consumption by the Jewish trade, if properly
> handled by the kosher retailer. The requirement of the
> religious law is that all veins must be removed before
> delivery of meat to the consumer.

Similar he
Datum: Dienstag, 1. September 1998 12:25
Betreff: FAQ - Kosher Food


>NOTE: A hypertext version of this FAQ is available at:
http://www.cyber-kitchen.com/rfcj/kosherfaq.htm

Meat That Is Allowed:
Beef
Veal
Venison
Mutton
Lamb
Goat

Notes:>
1. The animal from which the meat is taken must have been slaughtered in
accordance with prescribed Jewish ritual.

2. All liver must be broiled before use in recipes, because of a prohibition
against ingesting blood.
All meat must be kashered by (1) soaking and salting or by (2) sprinkling
with salt and broiling. Liver may be kashered only by broiling.

Ashkenazim generally soak and salt all meat, while Sephardim omit this if
the meat is to be broiled. Note that if the meat was not kashered within
three days of slaughter, it should be kashered by broiling. For meat which
has been frozen, CYLAH.

3. Because the sciatic nerve and certain parts of the fat must be removed in
order to eat the meat of the hindquarters (this is a laborious job and takes
special training), filet mignon, rump and sirloin steaks, leg of lamb, and
London broil usually are not available in kosher form in North America,
though they may be in other parts of the world.

On Apr 25, 7:14*pm, "Ed Pawlowski" > wrote:
>
> Meat That Is Allowed:
> Beef
> Veal
> Venison
> Mutton
> Lamb
> Goat
>
> Notes:>
> 1. The animal from which the meat is taken must have been slaughtered in
> accordance with prescribed Jewish ritual.
>

How does one slaughter venison, or is butchering it appropriately
acceptable and the terms used here interchangably (have to imagine
so) ? And nothing about poultry?

On 4/26/2011 9:41 AM, tutall wrote:
> On Apr 25, 7:14 pm, "Ed > wrote:
>>
>> Meat That Is Allowed:
>> Beef
>> Veal
>> Venison
>> Mutton
>> Lamb
>> Goat
>>
>> Notes:>
>> 1. The animal from which the meat is taken must have been slaughtered in
>> accordance with prescribed Jewish ritual.
>>
>
> How does one slaughter venison, or is butchering it appropriately
> acceptable and the terms used here interchangably (have to imagine
> so) ? And nothing about poultry?

I don't know the answer and I don't know what happened 2000 years ago
but would a present day, observant, orthodox Jew go hunting to kill for
food?

--


James Silverton, Potomac

I'm "not"

On Apr 26, 6:58*am, James Silverton >
wrote:
> On 4/26/2011 9:41 AM, tutall wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Apr 25, 7:14 pm, "Ed > *wrote:
>
> >> Meat That Is Allowed:
> >> Beef
> >> Veal
> >> Venison
> >> Mutton
> >> Lamb
> >> Goat
>
> >> Notes:>
> >> 1. The animal from which the meat is taken must have been slaughtered in
> >> accordance with prescribed Jewish ritual.
>
> > How does one slaughter venison, or is butchering it appropriately
> > acceptable and the terms used here interchangably (have to imagine
> > so) ? *And nothing about poultry?
>
> I don't know the answer and I don't know what happened 2000 years ago
> but would a present day, observant, orthodox Jew go hunting to kill for
> food?


If he's a Pennsylvanian, sure. ;-)

It's not only O's who keep kosher, C's and some even a few R's do too.
Though a lesser %.

On Tue, 26 Apr 2011 16:54:00 +0100, Janet > wrote:

>In article <9df3c347-762c-4200-94df-69757f90f1e3
>, says...
>>
>> On Apr 25, 7:14*pm, "Ed Pawlowski" > wrote:
>> >
>> > Meat That Is Allowed:
>> > Beef
>> > Veal
>> > Venison
>> > Mutton
>> > Lamb
>> > Goat
>> >
>> > Notes:>
>> > 1. The animal from which the meat is taken must have been slaughtered in
>> > accordance with prescribed Jewish ritual.
>> >
>>
>> How does one slaughter venison, or is butchering it appropriately
>> acceptable
>
>no, the slaughter method must comply with Jewish religious rules.
>
>>and the terms used here interchangably (have to imagine
>> so) ?
>
>no
>
> The animal must not be stunned before killing. It must be conscious when
>it dies, and it must be killed by a single cut to the neck severing the
>major blood vessels and oesophegus (but not the spinal cord), then the
>carcase has to be bled out.
>
> The butchering of the carcase also has to follow set religious procedure
>(quite different from non-kosher butchering). The carcase has to pass a
>religious inspection before the meat is passed as kosher.

I would have thought that shechita only applied to cattle, sheep, and
goats. Deer and gazelle are not flock animals and are actually
sectioned out in Deuteronomy 12:22. The only requirement is that they
must be bled out prior to eating (Deut 12:15/16).

On Mon, 25 Apr 2011 15:03:10 -0800, Mark Thorson >
wrote:

>spamtrap1888 wrote:
>>
>> On Apr 24, 6:46 pm, Mark Thorson > wrote:
>> > Jerry Avins wrote:
>> >
>> > > Yes. "Kosher salt" would better be called "koshering salt" It is used
>> > > to salt meat to make the meat kosher. (Kosher meat must come from
>> > > ritually slaughtered animals, and not from the hindquarters. The
>> >
>> > No, it can come from hindquarters. The reason it's
>> > not usually done is that the major blood vessels
>> > must be cut out. In the forequarters, they are
>> > mostly on the outside of the cut, so this is relatively
>> > easy to do. In the hindquarters, some of them are deep
>> > within the cut, so you'd have to tear the cut apart
>> > to dig them out.
>>
>> I'm a bit confused: the faq for rec.food.cuisine.jewish says the
>> sciatic nerve and certain parts of the fat must be removed from the
>> hindquarters.
>
>Quoting from Beef,_Veal_and_Lamb_Operations_ 4th edition
>(University of Chicago, 1954), pages 69 and 70.
>
>"Contrary to popular belief, both the fore quarter and
>hind quarter of meat animals (except pork) are eligible
>for consumption by the Jewish trade, if properly
>handled by the kosher retailer. The requirement of the
>religious law is that all veins must be removed before
>delivery of meat to the consumer. For this reason,
>the Jewish trade confines itself to the fore quarter,
>from which the veins may be easily and quickly removed
>with a minimum amount of mutilation of the meat."
>
>"There is no objection on the part of the Jewish trade
>to the hind quarter carcass cuts, such as loins and
>rounds, if they are handled in accordance with the
>religious requirements that the blood veins be removed.
>The veins in these parts are very small and their
>complete removal necessitates such mutilation of these
>parts as to practically destroy their identity. For
>this reason, the demand in this country is confined
>to the fore quarter, which can be bought at lower
>prices and from which the veins can be removed with
>a minimum amount of mutilation."


In Leviticus, the choice parts of the animal are reserved. The choice
parts being the stomach fat, lobe of the liver nearest the kidneys,
kidneys and their fat, the sheep's tail, and, for some sacrifices, the
right hind leg. In peace offerings the right hind leg is given to the
priest. The hind leg taken as an elevated gift could be eaten by the
priest and his children.

"tutall" > wrote in message
...
> On Apr 25, 7:14 pm, "Ed Pawlowski" > wrote:
>>
>> Meat That Is Allowed:
>> Beef
>> Veal
>> Venison
>> Mutton
>> Lamb
>> Goat
>>
>> Notes:>
>> 1. The animal from which the meat is taken must have been slaughtered in
>> accordance with prescribed Jewish ritual.
>>
>
> How does one slaughter venison, or is butchering it appropriately
> acceptable and the terms used here interchangably (have to imagine
> so) ? And nothing about poultry?

I have no idea about the venison.

Meat That Is Not Allowed:
Any animal which does not both chew its cud and have a split hoof, such as
rabbit or hare, pig, horse, dog or cat.

Poultry and Other Fowl:

The Torah names the bird species which are not kosher. Since we are not
certain to which birds all of these ancient Hebrew names refer, only birds
which traditionally have been eaten are allowed; primarily, domesticated
fowl.

Please note that they are considered to be *meat*. They must be slaughtered
by a ritual slaughterer (shokhet), and the prohibition against >mixing dairy
products with them applies, as for with other sources of meat.

Fowl That Is Allowed:
Chicken
Turkey
Squab
Quail
Cornish Hens
Doves/Pigeon
Goose
Duck
Pheasant

Note: All liver must be broiled before use in recipes, because of a
prohibition against ingesting blood.

Note: In the U.S., the only fowl which are kosher-slaughtered, commercially,
are chickens, turkeys, ducks and geese.

On Apr 26, 7:52*pm, "Ed Pawlowski" > wrote:
> "tutall" > wrote in message
>
> ...
>
>
>
> > On Apr 25, 7:14 pm, "Ed Pawlowski" > wrote:
>
> >> Meat That Is Allowed:
> >> Beef
> >> Veal
> >> Venison
> >> Mutton
> >> Lamb
> >> Goat
>
> >> Notes:>
> >> 1. The animal from which the meat is taken must have been slaughtered in
> >> accordance with prescribed Jewish ritual.
>
> > How does one slaughter venison, or is butchering it appropriately
> > acceptable and the terms used here interchangably (have to imagine
> > so) ? *And nothing about poultry?
>
> I have no idea about the venison.
>
> Meat That Is Not Allowed:
> Any animal which does not both chew its cud and have a split hoof, such as
> rabbit or hare, pig, horse, dog or cat.
>
> Poultry and Other Fowl:
>
> The Torah names the bird species which are not kosher. Since we are not
> certain to which birds all of these ancient Hebrew names refer, only birds
> which traditionally have been eaten are allowed; primarily, domesticated
> fowl.
>
> Please note that they are considered to be *meat*. They must be slaughtered
> by a ritual slaughterer (shokhet), and the prohibition against >mixing dairy
> products with them applies, as for with other sources of meat.
>
> Fowl That Is Allowed:
> Chicken
> Turkey
> Squab
> Quail
> Cornish Hens
> Doves/Pigeon
> Goose
> Duck
> Pheasant
>
> Note: All liver must be broiled before use in recipes, because of a
> prohibition against ingesting blood.
>
> Note: In the U.S., the only fowl which are kosher-slaughtered, commercially,
> are chickens, turkeys, ducks and geese.

Apparently the Muscovy duck controversy tested the best rabbinical
minds.

On Apr 26, 10:52*pm, "Ed Pawlowski" > wrote:

...

> The Torah names the bird species which are not kosher. Since we are not
> certain to which birds all of these ancient Hebrew names refer, only birds
> which traditionally have been eaten are allowed; primarily, domesticated
> fowl.
>
> Please note that they are considered to be *meat*. They must be slaughtered
> by a ritual slaughterer (shokhet), and the prohibition against >mixing dairy
> products with them applies, as for with other sources of meat.

Until the middle ages, fowl was considered parve (neither meat nor
milk) just as fish still is today. The prohibition against mixing meat
with milk comes from the biblical injunction against cooking a kid in
the milk of its mother, and was extended to all mammals. The chance in
medieval times was probably imposed to enforce separation.

...

Jerry
--
Engineering is the art of making what you want from things you can get.

On 4/25/2011 10:14 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

> 1. The animal from which the meat is taken must have been slaughtered in
> accordance with prescribed Jewish ritual.
>
> 2. All liver must be broiled before use in recipes, because of a
> prohibition against ingesting blood.
> All meat must be kashered by (1) soaking and salting or by (2)
> sprinkling with salt and broiling. Liver may be kashered only by broiling.
>
> Ashkenazim generally soak and salt all meat, while Sephardim omit this
> if the meat is to be broiled. Note that if the meat was not kashered
> within three days of slaughter, it should be kashered by broiling. For
> meat which has been frozen, CYLAH.
>
> 3. Because the sciatic nerve and certain parts of the fat must be
> removed in order to eat the meat of the hindquarters (this is a
> laborious job and takes special training), filet mignon, rump and
> sirloin steaks, leg of lamb, and London broil usually are not available
> in kosher form in North America, though they may be in other parts of
> the world.

How do you recognize the sciatic nerve and veins in butchered meat? I
never thought about this before.

On Fri, 29 Apr 2011 19:35:41 -0400, Cheryl >
wrote:

>On 4/25/2011 10:14 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
>
>> 1. The animal from which the meat is taken must have been slaughtered in
>> accordance with prescribed Jewish ritual.
>>
>> 2. All liver must be broiled before use in recipes, because of a
>> prohibition against ingesting blood.
>> All meat must be kashered by (1) soaking and salting or by (2)
>> sprinkling with salt and broiling. Liver may be kashered only by broiling.
>>
>> Ashkenazim generally soak and salt all meat, while Sephardim omit this
>> if the meat is to be broiled. Note that if the meat was not kashered
>> within three days of slaughter, it should be kashered by broiling. For
>> meat which has been frozen, CYLAH.
>>
>> 3. Because the sciatic nerve and certain parts of the fat must be
>> removed in order to eat the meat of the hindquarters (this is a
>> laborious job and takes special training), filet mignon, rump and
>> sirloin steaks, leg of lamb, and London broil usually are not available
>> in kosher form in North America, though they may be in other parts of
>> the world.
>
>How do you recognize the sciatic nerve and veins in butchered meat? I
>never thought about this before.

Anatomy 101