On 2-Jul-2010, bbq > wrote:

> On 7/2/2010 7:36 PM, Kent wrote:
> > "Dave > wrote in message
> > ...
> >> Kent wrote:
> >>
> >>> The quantity of charcoal he used was a single layer spread evenly
> >>> across the whole charcoal grate of a 22" Weber.
> >>>
> >>> What can oir do you barbecue or grill on that?? He said "ready to
> >>> go". He didn't talk about indirect. That won't even grill a brat!
> >>
> >> I read exactly what was said and understood it perfectly,
> >> smegma-fer-brains. The amount of charcoal used will provide plenty of
> >> heat
> >> for a normal grilling session for steaks, burgers, dogs, OR BRATS
> >> unless
> >> you were cooking for a party instead of a family. Why would you even
> >> think
> >> that I was referring to INDIRECT cooking, which takes a longer period
> >> of
> >> time and would take MORE charcoal? Why do you not know just how long a
> >> chimney full of charcoal will provide useable heat for grilling? Why
> >> are
> >> you constantly asking questions that any normal person, who actually
> >> cooks
> >> with charcoal --- whether lump or briquets --- should know? Why the
> >> sexually-driven obsession with 'char rare'? The answer: you don't, nor
> >> have you EVER, done any outdoor grilling or barbecue. YOU are a
> >> groupie.
> >> YOU are a desperate, pathetic hanger-on. YOU read some books about
> >> grilling, watched some cooking channel shows on barbecue, and thought
> >> being part of the outdoor cooking crowd was THE in-thing to do. YOU are
> >> nothing but a fraud, a poseur, a wanna-be.
> >>
> >> Now, go on back to Sears and window shop the grills until you get a
> >> stiffie, then fantasize about really cooking outdoors. Oh, and don't
> >> forget to post your next proof that you have never actually grilled a
> >> thing: a formulaic opinion of why the btu's of a said amount of
> >> charcoal
> >> in said amount of equipment will not have the capability to grill said
> >> amount of meat. After all, that is another typical Kentism, desperately
> >> arguing theoritical crap into the ground because you have no real-world
> >> experience.
> >> --
> >> Dave Bugg
> >>
> >>
> > I looked at that video again. The amount of charcoal Cheney used
> > resulted in
> > a single layer of burning coals on the charcoal grate marginally more
> > than
> > one coal high. That leaves 4-5 inches between the charcoal and the
> > cooking
> > grate. On that 22" Weber with that charcoal arrangement you won't get
> > enough heat to grill a steak with the lid up.
> >
> > Do you grill strip steak with a hood up or down? As I recall I don't
> > think
> > you use the Weber for direct grilling. Maybe that's the difference in
> > our
> > points of view.
> >
> > As I write I'm grilling indirectly on the Weber Performer two USDA Prime
> > "Chuck Steaks". After salt and pepper I painted the meat with A-1
> > Sauce,
> > diluted with water and a small bit of vinegar. The hood down "Indirect
> > oven"
> > temp. is 275F. To what temp. would you cook this? More than 175F?? I'm
> > thinking 175F, to the point where the meat begins to fall apart.
> >
> > Thanks so much and a happy fourth to you Dave.
> >
> > Kent
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> Cook it to what ever want. It's your meat. Most people around here will
> cook a steak to blood rare(100° ), rare (120°), medium (140°), well
> (160°), leather (180°)
>
> I don't use "chuck steaks" for a steak. I use Sirloin, NY Strip,
> Porterhouse or Prime Rib for steak meals. Chuck Steaks, I would use for
> a small batch of chili, stew or goulash.
>
> Turn up the heat, all you have to do is turn up the dial. Why wait so
> long to cook "just a steak"?
>
> BBQ

I want to know where Kent found a Chuck steak labelled USDA Prime.
As far as what temp to cook a steak to, the subject is rediculous. I
never heard of anybody that measures the temperature of a steak.
And finally, I wouldn't think of ever trying to cook a steak with indirect
heat. By definition, Grilling is cooking over high direct heat. I've heard
of folks finishing a steak over indirect heat or even in an oven, but I
personally am not going there. I limit my steak thickness to about
1-1/4" and they do just fine over very hot direct charcoal heat, two
to three minutes to a side. I have no idea what temperature they end
up at. They come off blood rare in the middle and get to the table a
nice medium rare. (Warm, but not hot, center)

--
Brick said that

On 2-Jul-2010, Omelet > wrote:

> In article om>,
> wrote:
>
> > Anybody wants to watch me turn dead animal parts into mouth watering
> > food that won't run the dogs off is welcome to stop by. BYOB.
> >
> > --
> > Brick said that.
>
> Where do you live? <g>
> I'd even provide some of the dead birds and mammals...
> --
> Peace! Om

Try your phone book Om., My location is not a secret. The location of
my guns is.

--
Brick said that

On 7/2/2010 9:22 PM, Brick wrote:

>
> I want to know where Kent found a Chuck steak labelled USDA Prime.
> As far as what temp to cook a steak to, the subject is rediculous. I
> never heard of anybody that measures the temperature of a steak.
> And finally, I wouldn't think of ever trying to cook a steak with indirect
> heat. By definition, Grilling is cooking over high direct heat. I've heard
> of folks finishing a steak over indirect heat or even in an oven, but I
> personally am not going there. I limit my steak thickness to about
> 1-1/4" and they do just fine over very hot direct charcoal heat, two
> to three minutes to a side. I have no idea what temperature they end
> up at. They come off blood rare in the middle and get to the table a
> nice medium rare. (Warm, but not hot, center)
>

I used those temperature ranges for those that need a "number". After
grilling several steaks, one should be able to KNOW the time it takes to
get a steak to a desired doneness. I have heard of a touch test to
determine, rare, medium, well, etc. I never could develop that with any
accuracy.

I think Kent might be his own butcher and grader to.

BBQ

Kent wrote:

> The whole idea of sous vide is.....

yet another example of your anal-retentive addiction to pretentiousness.

ROTFLOL!!!!

--
Dave Bugg
"For it's 'guns this' and 'guns that', and 'chuck 'em out, the brutes',
But they're the 'Savior of our loved ones' when the thugs begin to
loot." - Rudyard Kipling

In article >,
Sqwertz > wrote:

> On Fri, 02 Jul 2010 20:11:20 -0500, Omelet wrote:
>
> > In article >,
> > Sqwertz > wrote:
> >
> >> On Fri, 02 Jul 2010 06:01:37 -0500, Omelet wrote:
> >>
> >>> Ok, I will ignore him if that is the judgement of the list. I don't
> >>> wish to be killfiled for responding to him.
> >>
> >> And the other day you had a misguided hissy fit over people
> >> supposedly controlling how you post. Men doing that, in
> >> particular.
> >>
> >> Go figure.
> >
> > That was over a single person... not the consensus of an entire list
> > babe. Not the same thing at all. I do give in to social pressure, but
> > not to individual control freaks.
>
> Who else told you not to bother with Kent? And how many people
> think Peter is an complete asshole and have him killfiled? Not
> that I *ever* implied that you should not be friends with Peter
> (and you know that).

You just did.

>
> You are so two-faced you don't know your headface from assface.
> Backpedal faster!
>
> -sw

I like Peter and know him personally.
I don't know Kent. Never exchanged snail mail and gifts with him.

Please leave Peter out of this.
--
Peace! Om

Web Albums: <http://picasaweb.google.com/OMPOmelet>
Only Irish coffee provides in a single glass all four essential food groups: alcohol, caffeine, sugar and fat. --Alex Levine

Sqwertz wrote:

> The fibers braking down via enzymes is a feature of "aging" (at
> under 40F), either wet or dry, not of temperatures between 85 and
> 130F. Where you got those numbers is a mystery. This is where I
> usually insert a (*) sphincter to indicate something was pulled
> out of its ass.

Kent is confusing brining his turkey in the garage with aging. Poor sot.

--
Dave Bugg
"For it's 'guns this' and 'guns that', and 'chuck 'em out, the brutes',
But they're the 'Savior of our loved ones' when the thugs begin to
loot." - Rudyard Kipling

In article >,
"Kent" > wrote:

> The whole idea of sous vide is to very slowly cook steak through the
> temperature band where the muscle fibers are enzematically broken
> down[85F-130F or something close to that]. This is how it's done in a
> restaurant,
> http://food.rlove.org/2009/01/perfec...rip-steak.html , by
> vacuum packing the steak and very very slowly heating it through this band
> in a bath of water. Then the steak is seared. The idea is to get the steak
> fork tender, and rare edge to edge without a grey band under the surface.
>
> I think this could be done on your WSM, by smoking the steak at 225F until
> the internal temp. reaches 125F or whatever you want, and then searing
> following. I'm going to sear on the stove top following the "slow wood
> cook".
>
> Kent

But you will still never get a rare steak out of that that is bloody raw
in the middle.
--
Peace! Om

Web Albums: <http://picasaweb.google.com/OMPOmelet>
*Only Irish *coffee provides in a single glass all four *essential food groups: alcohol, caffeine, sugar *and fat. --Alex Levine

"Brick" > wrote:
> On 2-Jul-2010, Omelet > wrote:
> > wrote:
> >
> > > Anybody wants to watch me turn dead animal parts into mouth watering
> > > food that won't run the dogs off is welcome to stop by. BYOB.

> > Where do you live? <g>
> > I'd even provide some of the dead birds and mammals...

> Try your phone book Om., My location is not a secret. The location of
> my guns is.

Brick. Back in the 50's, my goomba, Joe, had Chick Gaylord make him a
crotch holster for his Colt Cobra .38 Spec. It was invisible.

--
Nick, KI6VAV. Support severely wounded and disabled Veterans and their
families: https://www.woundedwarriorproject.org/
http://www.helpforheroes.org.uk/ Thank a Veteran! Support Our Troops!
http://anymarine.com/ You are not forgotten. Thanks ! ! ~Semper Fi~

In article >,
"Kent" > wrote:

> > It won't be "rare" meat Kent. <sigh>
> > --
> > Peace! Om
> >
> >
> Om, this isn't a cut of beef you'd want to eat rare. It just looks like a
> grilled rare strip steak. As I look at it now it looks great!
>
> Kent

I've personally found that some of the "toughest" cuts of beef are the
most tender raw.

Steak Tartar for instance, I prefer to make out of top round due to it's
lack of fat. I detest raw beef fat.

This was the gods... cubed and served with a whipped dipping sauce of
soy sauce and raw egg yolk:

<http://i16.tinypic.com/5xywje1.jpg>
--
Peace! Om

Web Albums: <http://picasaweb.google.com/OMPOmelet>
*Only Irish *coffee provides in a single glass all four *essential food groups: alcohol, caffeine, sugar *and fat. --Alex Levine

On 7/2/2010 10:32 PM, Nick Cramer wrote:
> > wrote:
>> On 2-Jul-2010, > wrote:
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Anybody wants to watch me turn dead animal parts into mouth watering
>>>> food that won't run the dogs off is welcome to stop by. BYOB.
>
>>> Where do you live?<g>
>>> I'd even provide some of the dead birds and mammals...
>
>> Try your phone book Om., My location is not a secret. The location of
>> my guns is.
>
> Brick. Back in the 50's, my goomba, Joe, had Chick Gaylord make him a
> crotch holster for his Colt Cobra .38 Spec. It was invisible.
>


OUCH, if something happens and the trigger is accidentally pulled.
Invisible maybe, but the ladies thought it might be something else :-)

BBQ

In article om>,
"Brick" > wrote:

> On 2-Jul-2010, Omelet > wrote:
>
> > In article om>,
> > wrote:
> >
> > > Anybody wants to watch me turn dead animal parts into mouth watering
> > > food that won't run the dogs off is welcome to stop by. BYOB.
> > >
> > > --
> > > Brick said that.
> >
> > Where do you live? <g>
> > I'd even provide some of the dead birds and mammals...
> > --
> > Peace! Om
>
> Try your phone book Om., My location is not a secret. The location of
> my guns is.

I keep my guns concealed too. <g>

Want to meet at the range in New Braunfels sometime, e-mail me!
--
Peace! Om

Web Albums: <http://picasaweb.google.com/OMPOmelet>
*Only Irish *coffee provides in a single glass all four *essential food groups: alcohol, caffeine, sugar *and fat. --Alex Levine

On 7/2/2010 10:32 PM, Sqwertz wrote:

>
> I know the result already: Dry. Depending on which part of part
> of the shoulder he's referring to, it could be drier than dry.
>
> -sw


Could it also be dependent on if the cow was left or right handed,
(maybe shouldered is better word)? ;-)

BBQ

In article >,
Nick Cramer > wrote:

> "Brick" > wrote:
> > On 2-Jul-2010, Omelet > wrote:
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > > Anybody wants to watch me turn dead animal parts into mouth watering
> > > > food that won't run the dogs off is welcome to stop by. BYOB.
>
> > > Where do you live? <g>
> > > I'd even provide some of the dead birds and mammals...
>
> > Try your phone book Om., My location is not a secret. The location of
> > my guns is.
>
> Brick. Back in the 50's, my goomba, Joe, had Chick Gaylord make him a
> crotch holster for his Colt Cobra .38 Spec. It was invisible.
>
> --
> Nick,

<http://www.thunderwear.com/>

;-)
--
Peace! Om

Web Albums: <http://picasaweb.google.com/OMPOmelet>
*Only Irish *coffee provides in a single glass all four *essential food groups: alcohol, caffeine, sugar *and fat. --Alex Levine

In article >,
bbq > wrote:

> On 7/2/2010 10:32 PM, Nick Cramer wrote:
> > > wrote:
> >> On 2-Jul-2010, > wrote:
> >>> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> Anybody wants to watch me turn dead animal parts into mouth watering
> >>>> food that won't run the dogs off is welcome to stop by. BYOB.
> >
> >>> Where do you live?<g>
> >>> I'd even provide some of the dead birds and mammals...
> >
> >> Try your phone book Om., My location is not a secret. The location of
> >> my guns is.
> >
> > Brick. Back in the 50's, my goomba, Joe, had Chick Gaylord make him a
> > crotch holster for his Colt Cobra .38 Spec. It was invisible.
> >
>
>
> OUCH, if something happens and the trigger is accidentally pulled.
> Invisible maybe, but the ladies thought it might be something else :-)
>
> BBQ

"Are you packing or are you just happy to see me?"

;-)
--
Peace! Om

Web Albums: <http://picasaweb.google.com/OMPOmelet>
*Only Irish *coffee provides in a single glass all four *essential food groups: alcohol, caffeine, sugar *and fat. --Alex Levine

In article >,
Sqwertz > wrote:

>
> He hears dead cows.
>
> -sw

<lol>!
--
Peace! Om

Web Albums: <http://picasaweb.google.com/OMPOmelet>
Only Irish coffee provides in a single glass all four essential food groups: alcohol, caffeine, sugar and fat. --Alex Levine

In article >,
Sqwertz > wrote:

> You just say whatever comes to the top of your head and out your
> ears whether it makes sense or not.

The irony astounds me. ;-)

> You are completely bonkers.
> You're not from Venus, you're from some completely other solar
> system. How do you even function at work?

Just fine, thank you.
And you?

I've held 3 (real) jobs in 23 years.

You?

>
> And I reserve the right to point out your hypocrisy every chance I
> get.
>
> -sw

And I, yours babe.

Cheers!
--
Peace! Om

Web Albums: <http://picasaweb.google.com/OMPOmelet>
Only Irish coffee provides in a single glass all four essential food groups: alcohol, caffeine, sugar and fat. --Alex Levine

In article >,
Sqwertz > wrote:

> On Fri, 02 Jul 2010 23:10:30 -0500, Omelet wrote:
>
> > I've held 3 (real) jobs in 23 years.
> >
> > You?
>
> Now you're trying to belittle me with blind pot shots?

You started it! <she responds childishly>

>
> I've had 5. And they averaged a hell of a lot more than you make
> at your "real" jobs.

And? How do you know what I really make, with overtime?
(which has been a LOT considering how badly my field is currently
understaffed).

And more importantly, have you SAVED any of it with your prime beef
habit?

>
> Now shut the **** up. Or not. Insert last word he (I know you
> will)
>
> -sw

I'm a woman. What's your excuse? <eg>

<daring Steve to respond...>
--
Peace! Om

Web Albums: <http://picasaweb.google.com/OMPOmelet>
Only Irish coffee provides in a single glass all four essential food groups: alcohol, caffeine, sugar and fat. --Alex Levine

In article >,
Nick Cramer > wrote:

> > Please leave Peter out of this.
>
> Peter's a big boy. He'll handle this if/as he sees fit.

He does not post on this list.
--
Peace! Om

Web Albums: <http://picasaweb.google.com/OMPOmelet>
*Only Irish *coffee provides in a single glass all four *essential food groups: alcohol, caffeine, sugar *and fat. --Alex Levine

Omelet > wrote:
> Sqwertz > wrote:
> > On Fri, 02 Jul 2010 20:11:20 -0500, Omelet wrote:
> > > Sqwertz > wrote:>
> >> On Fri, 02 Jul 2010 06:01:37 -0500, Omelet wrote:
> > >>
> > >>> Ok, I will ignore him if that is the judgement of the list. I
> > >>> don't wish to be killfiled for responding to him.
> > >>
> > >> And the other day you had a misguided hissy fit over people
> > >> supposedly controlling how you post. Men doing that, in
> > >> particular.
> > >>
> > >> Go figure.
> > >
> > > That was over a single person... not the consensus of an entire list
> > > babe. Not the same thing at all. I do give in to social pressure,
> > > but not to individual control freaks.
> >
> > Who else told you not to bother with Kent? And how many people
> > think Peter is an complete asshole and have him killfiled? Not
> > that I *ever* implied that you should not be friends with Peter
> > (and you know that).
>
> You just did.

> > You are so two-faced you don't know your headface from assface.
> > Backpedal faster!

> I like Peter and know him personally.
> I don't know Kent. Never exchanged snail mail and gifts with him.
>
> Please leave Peter out of this.

Peter's a big boy. He'll handle this if/as he sees fit.

--
Nick, KI6VAV. Support severely wounded and disabled Veterans and their
families: https://www.woundedwarriorproject.org/
http://www.helpforheroes.org.uk/ Thank a Veteran! Support Our Troops!
http://anymarine.com/ You are not forgotten. Thanks ! ! ~Semper Fi~

bbq > wrote:
> On 7/2/2010 10:32 PM, Nick Cramer wrote:
> > > wrote:
> >> On 2-Jul-2010, > wrote:
> >>> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> Anybody wants to watch me turn dead animal parts into mouth watering
> >>>> food that won't run the dogs off is welcome to stop by. BYOB.
> >
> >>> Where do you live?<g>
> >>> I'd even provide some of the dead birds and mammals...
> >
> >> Try your phone book Om., My location is not a secret. The location of
> >> my guns is.
> >
> > Brick. Back in the 50's, my goomba, Joe, had Chick Gaylord make him a
> > crotch holster for his Colt Cobra .38 Spec. It was invisible.
> >
>
> OUCH, if something happens and the trigger is accidentally pulled.
> Invisible maybe, but the ladies thought it might be something else :-)

It was a beautiful piece of workmanship, Rick. The grip snuggled up to the
right of his scrotum, the tip of the barrel was at his sphincter ani
externus. He kept the gun fully loaded. I never asked how it was fitted to
him.

--
Nick, KI6VAV. Support severely wounded and disabled Veterans and their
families: https://www.woundedwarriorproject.org/
http://www.helpforheroes.org.uk/ Thank a Veteran! Support Our Troops!
http://anymarine.com/ You are not forgotten. Thanks ! ! ~Semper Fi~

Omelet > wrote:
> Nick Cramer > wrote:
> > "Brick" > wrote:
> > > On 2-Jul-2010, Omelet > wrote:
> > > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Anybody wants to watch me turn dead animal parts into mouth
> > > > > watering food that won't run the dogs off is welcome to stop by.
> > > > > BYOB.
> >
> > > > Where do you live? <g>
> > > > I'd even provide some of the dead birds and mammals...
> >
> > > Try your phone book Om., My location is not a secret. The location of
> > > my guns is.
> >
> > Brick. Back in the 50's, my goomba, Joe, had Chick Gaylord make him a
> > crotch holster for his Colt Cobra .38 Spec. It was invisible.

> <http://www.thunderwear.com/>

Thanks, Om. Those are nice, but not even close. ;-))

--
Nick, KI6VAV. Support severely wounded and disabled Veterans and their
families: https://www.woundedwarriorproject.org/
http://www.helpforheroes.org.uk/ Thank a Veteran! Support Our Troops!
http://anymarine.com/ You are not forgotten. Thanks ! ! ~Semper Fi~

In article >,
Sqwertz > wrote:

> On Fri, 02 Jul 2010 23:42:19 -0500, Omelet wrote:
>
> > And? How do you know what I really make, with overtime?
>
> You told me what you were expecting at your new job. That's how.
> Overtime? What's that?

And plenty of it. ;-)
More than expected, but I volunteer.

>
> > And more importantly, have you SAVED any of it with your prime beef
> > habit?
>
> Still trying to take pot shots BASED ON SPECULATION rather than
> facts.
>
> Insert last word (again):
>
> -sw

<sigh> Go to bed Steve...
--
Peace! Om

Web Albums: <http://picasaweb.google.com/OMPOmelet>
Only Irish coffee provides in a single glass all four essential food groups: alcohol, caffeine, sugar and fat. --Alex Levine

On 7/2/2010 11:02 PM, Sqwertz wrote:
> On Fri, 02 Jul 2010 22:49:12 -0500, bbq wrote:
>
>> On 7/2/2010 10:32 PM, Sqwertz wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> I know the result already: Dry. Depending on which part of part
>>> of the shoulder he's referring to, it could be drier than dry.
>>
>> Could it also be dependent on if the cow was left or right handed,
>> (maybe shouldered is better word)? ;-)
>
> It depends on which hemisphere the cow was raised. Southern
> hemisphere cows leave the barn and make a counter-clockwise trips
> around the yard. So the right side of beef is more tender.
> Northern hemisphere cows, the left side of beef. You will never
> find left sides of cow at the grocery stores. These are reserved
> for the top steakhouses and hotels. And Japan, of course.
>
> I have a mildly amusing live cow(s) story that happened to me/us
> yesterday, but I'll save that for later.
>
> -sw


Japanese cows, at least those from Kobe, Japan don't even have to leave
the barn. The get to sit around all day, drink beer and be massaged.

BBQ

On 7/2/2010 10:19 PM, Sqwertz wrote:

>
>> I think ....
>
> There's your problem. You need to drop this whole Souse vide
> thing. It's just confusing you.
>
> If you're not going to take advice or criticism from us, why are
> you posting here? If you want to "think" out load, do it
> privately.
>
> -sw

I was thinking the same thing. He has "aging" a steak to tenderness and
"grilling" a steak to tenderness confused.

Agree, "thinking" is his problem. Maybe we can design/invent a barbecue
chip for him. Current designs need to be changed though. These types of
chips are designed to be inserted in a brain type area above the
shoulders. He is missing that.

The "new and improved barbecue brain chip" available in November, just
for Kent (and his family)..

BBQ

On 2-Jul-2010, bbq > wrote:

> On 7/2/2010 9:22 PM, Brick wrote:
>
> >
> > I want to know where Kent found a Chuck steak labelled USDA Prime.
> > As far as what temp to cook a steak to, the subject is rediculous. I
> > never heard of anybody that measures the temperature of a steak.
> > And finally, I wouldn't think of ever trying to cook a steak with
> > indirect
> > heat. By definition, Grilling is cooking over high direct heat. I've
> > heard
> > of folks finishing a steak over indirect heat or even in an oven, but I
> > personally am not going there. I limit my steak thickness to about
> > 1-1/4" and they do just fine over very hot direct charcoal heat, two
> > to three minutes to a side. I have no idea what temperature they end
> > up at. They come off blood rare in the middle and get to the table a
> > nice medium rare. (Warm, but not hot, center)
> >
>
> I used those temperature ranges for those that need a "number". After
> grilling several steaks, one should be able to KNOW the time it takes to
> get a steak to a desired doneness. I have heard of a touch test to
> determine, rare, medium, well, etc. I never could develop that with any
> accuracy.
>
> I think Kent might be his own butcher and grader to.
>
> BBQ

I can't do any good with the touch test either, but my eye does a sufficient
job for me. I'm aware that all the coaching in the world isn't going to help
the first time griller a whole lot. The best advice I can give a neophyte is
a. get the fire a lot hotter then seems necessary.
b. get your steaks to room temperature
c. don't put anything on your raw meat that will burn and turn bitter.
(garlic)
d. don't play with your food. Exercise makes tough bodies and does the
same to steak. Put it on the grill. Turn once only. Take it off and let rest
a few minutes.

e. If you really have to have perfect grill marks, you have a major strike
against you before you have even started.

--
Brick (That's my story, and I'm sticking to it.)

On 2-Jul-2010, Nick Cramer > wrote:

> "Brick" > wrote:
> > On 2-Jul-2010, Omelet > wrote:
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > > Anybody wants to watch me turn dead animal parts into mouth watering
> > > > food that won't run the dogs off is welcome to stop by. BYOB.
>
> > > Where do you live? <g>
> > > I'd even provide some of the dead birds and mammals...
>
> > Try your phone book Om., My location is not a secret. The location of
> > my guns is.
>
> Brick. Back in the 50's, my goomba, Joe, had Chick Gaylord make him a
> crotch holster for his Colt Cobra .38 Spec. It was invisible.
>
> --
> Nick, KI6VAV.

I suppose that's one way to make the women think a guy has something
special. <-

--
Brick said that

Kent wrote:

> The whole idea of sous vide is to very slowly cook steak through the
> temperature band where the muscle fibers are enzematically broken
> down[85F-130F or something close to that]. This is how it's done in a
> restaurant,
> http://food.rlove.org/2009/01/perfec...rip-steak.html , by
> vacuum packing the steak and very very slowly heating it through this band
> in a bath of water. Then the steak is seared. The idea is to get the steak
> fork tender, and rare edge to edge without a grey band under the surface.

Sheer psychosis on your part. That "temperature band" will do
nothing to promote enzymatic activity.

Unless you actually add enzymes ("meat tenderizers", etc) will be no
enzymatic effect in anything less than 3 days, MINIMUM. The time
required for any real world effect is more like 5-7 days. The process
takes place quite well at refrigerator temps (because temperature is
not a factor with regard to enzymatic activity, enzymes are!).

This is commonly known as dry aging. How you could have possibly
convoluterized that up with "sous-vide" is a mystery.

--
Mort

In article >,
Mort > wrote:

> (because temperature is
> not a factor with regard to enzymatic activity, enzymes are!).

That is not entirely true. ;-) Enzyme activity is a rate reaction, and
is sped up by temperature... but slowed by EXTREME temperatures.

Cooking is not a way to increase enzyme activity.

The trick with meat aging is to keep it at the right temperature for
enzyme tenderization without risking bacterial spoilage.
--
Peace! Om

Web Albums: <http://picasaweb.google.com/OMPOmelet>
*Only Irish *coffee provides in a single glass all four *essential food groups: alcohol, caffeine, sugar *and fat. --Alex Levine

Omelet wrote:
> In >,
> > wrote:
>
>> (because temperature is
>> not a factor with regard to enzymatic activity, enzymes are!).
>
> That is not entirely true. ;-) Enzyme activity is a rate reaction, and
> is sped up by temperature... but slowed by EXTREME temperatures.

For purposes of this conversation it is entirely true. Context,
Madam.

I'll spell it out for you again.

Temperature has an insignificant effect if you are relying
on the enzymes that naturally occur in the product. That being
the case (i.e. you are not adding meat tenderizers such as
papain, bromelain, etc) it takes MANY DAYS to create any
enzymatic effect on meat no matter what the temperature.

--
Mort

"Dave Bugg" > wrote in message
...
> Kent wrote:
>
>> The quantity of charcoal he used was a single layer spread evenly
>> across the whole charcoal grate of a 22" Weber.
>>
>> What can oir do you barbecue or grill on that?? He said "ready to
>> go". He didn't talk about indirect. That won't even grill a brat!
>
> I read exactly what was said and understood it perfectly,
> smegma-fer-brains. The amount of charcoal used will provide plenty of heat
> for a normal grilling session for steaks, burgers, dogs, OR BRATS unless
> you were cooking for a party instead of a family. Why would you even think
> that I was referring to INDIRECT cooking, which takes a longer period of
> time and would take MORE charcoal? Why do you not know just how long a
> chimney full of charcoal will provide useable heat for grilling? Why are
> you constantly asking questions that any normal person, who actually cooks
> with charcoal --- whether lump or briquets --- should know? Why the
> sexually-driven obsession with 'char rare'? The answer: you don't, nor
> have you EVER, done any outdoor grilling or barbecue. YOU are a groupie.
> YOU are a desperate, pathetic hanger-on. YOU read some books about
> grilling, watched some cooking channel shows on barbecue, and thought
> being part of the outdoor cooking crowd was THE in-thing to do. YOU are
> nothing but a fraud, a poseur, a wanna-be.
>
> Now, go on back to Sears and window shop the grills until you get a
> stiffie, then fantasize about really cooking outdoors. Oh, and don't
> forget to post your next proof that you have never actually grilled a
> thing: a formulaic opinion of why the btu's of a said amount of charcoal
> in said amount of equipment will not have the capability to grill said
> amount of meat. After all, that is another typical Kentism, desperately
> arguing theoritical crap into the ground because you have no real-world
> experience.
> --
> Dave Bugg
>
>
I grill or barbecue at least 130 times a year, on my Weber Performer, my
WSM, my gas[my God!], the Weber Silver Genesis B, and rarely on my Little
Chief electric smoker. I'd say 85% of the time it's on the Weber Performer
over charcoal.

When I grill a steak "char rare" I get the charcoal to 1" below the grate.
If it's a thick[usually a 2.5' thick "butt end" sirloin, I char the surface,
and complete cooking over a cooler portion of the grill. Virtually all steak
grilling is with the lid up. In the winter, to adjust for the lower ambient
temperature I lift the lid partially. This is done with ease with the
Performer, just by pulling the lid partially up.. Weber should do something
that allows you to partially open the grill lid on their other charcoal and
their gas grills by simply lifting the lid up. The lid should stay in place
when you get it whee you want it.

Happy 4th to all,

Kent

"Brick" > wrote in message
ster.com...
>
> On 2-Jul-2010, bbq > wrote:
>
>> On 7/2/2010 9:22 PM, Brick wrote:
>>
>> >
>> > I want to know where Kent found a Chuck steak labelled USDA Prime.
>> > As far as what temp to cook a steak to, the subject is rediculous. I
>> > never heard of anybody that measures the temperature of a steak.
>> > And finally, I wouldn't think of ever trying to cook a steak with
>> > indirect
>> > heat. By definition, Grilling is cooking over high direct heat. I've
>> > heard
>> > of folks finishing a steak over indirect heat or even in an oven, but I
>> > personally am not going there. I limit my steak thickness to about
>> > 1-1/4" and they do just fine over very hot direct charcoal heat, two
>> > to three minutes to a side. I have no idea what temperature they end
>> > up at. They come off blood rare in the middle and get to the table a
>> > nice medium rare. (Warm, but not hot, center)
>> >
>>
>> I used those temperature ranges for those that need a "number". After
>> grilling several steaks, one should be able to KNOW the time it takes to
>> get a steak to a desired doneness. I have heard of a touch test to
>> determine, rare, medium, well, etc. I never could develop that with any
>> accuracy.
>>
>> I think Kent might be his own butcher and grader to.
>>
>> BBQ
>
> I can't do any good with the touch test either, but my eye does a
> sufficient
> job for me. I'm aware that all the coaching in the world isn't going to
> help
> the first time griller a whole lot. The best advice I can give a neophyte
> is
> a. get the fire a lot hotter then seems necessary.
> b. get your steaks to room temperature
> c. don't put anything on your raw meat that will burn and turn bitter.
> (garlic)
> d. don't play with your food. Exercise makes tough bodies and does the
> same to steak. Put it on the grill. Turn once only. Take it off and let
> rest
> a few minutes.
>
> e. If you really have to have perfect grill marks, you have a major strike
> against you before you have even started.
>
> --
> Brick (That's my story, and I'm sticking to it.)
>
>
A properly grilled steak should have a "char" appearance over its whole
surface. If you see "grill marks" the steak is not grilled properly. The
temperature on the grate surface is too low. The grilling temperature should
be high enough to evenly grill the whole surface at the same time, without
relying on the heat in the grate. This is not possible on any currently
available propane grill, except for a few more expensive infrared grills.

Kent

"Omelet" > wrote in message
news
> In article >,
> "Kent" > wrote:
>
>> > It won't be "rare" meat Kent. <sigh>
>> > --
>> > Peace! Om
>> >
>> >
>> Om, this isn't a cut of beef you'd want to eat rare. It just looks like a
>> grilled rare strip steak. As I look at it now it looks great!
>>
>> Kent
>
> I've personally found that some of the "toughest" cuts of beef are the
> most tender raw.
>
> Steak Tartar for instance, I prefer to make out of top round due to it's
> lack of fat. I detest raw beef fat.
>
> This was the gods... cubed and served with a whipped dipping sauce of
> soy sauce and raw egg yolk:
>
> <http://i16.tinypic.com/5xywje1.jpg>
> --
> Peace! Om
>
>
Absolutely agree, on the "raw rare"

Report on the "Chuck Steak": I grilled it, indirectly and covered, as I said
above, to 175F. The meat was too dry. At that point, or sometime earlier I
should have braised it, like you would any beef stew.

Kent

"Kent" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Brick" > wrote in message
> ster.com...
>>
>> On 2-Jul-2010, bbq > wrote:
>>
>>> On 7/2/2010 9:22 PM, Brick wrote:
>>>
>>> >
>>> > I want to know where Kent found a Chuck steak labelled USDA Prime.
>>> > As far as what temp to cook a steak to, the subject is rediculous. I
>>> > never heard of anybody that measures the temperature of a steak.
>>> > And finally, I wouldn't think of ever trying to cook a steak with
>>> > indirect
>>> > heat. By definition, Grilling is cooking over high direct heat. I've
>>> > heard
>>> > of folks finishing a steak over indirect heat or even in an oven, but
>>> > I
>>> > personally am not going there. I limit my steak thickness to about
>>> > 1-1/4" and they do just fine over very hot direct charcoal heat, two
>>> > to three minutes to a side. I have no idea what temperature they end
>>> > up at. They come off blood rare in the middle and get to the table a
>>> > nice medium rare. (Warm, but not hot, center)
>>> >
>>>
>>> I used those temperature ranges for those that need a "number". After
>>> grilling several steaks, one should be able to KNOW the time it takes to
>>> get a steak to a desired doneness. I have heard of a touch test to
>>> determine, rare, medium, well, etc. I never could develop that with any
>>> accuracy.
>>>
>>> I think Kent might be his own butcher and grader to.
>>>
>>> BBQ
>>
>> I can't do any good with the touch test either, but my eye does a
>> sufficient
>> job for me. I'm aware that all the coaching in the world isn't going to
>> help
>> the first time griller a whole lot. The best advice I can give a neophyte
>> is
>> a. get the fire a lot hotter then seems necessary.
>> b. get your steaks to room temperature
>> c. don't put anything on your raw meat that will burn and turn bitter.
>> (garlic)
>> d. don't play with your food. Exercise makes tough bodies and does the
>> same to steak. Put it on the grill. Turn once only. Take it off and let
>> rest
>> a few minutes.
>>
>> e. If you really have to have perfect grill marks, you have a major
>> strike
>> against you before you have even started.
>>
>> --
>> Brick (That's my story, and I'm sticking to it.)
>>
>>
> A properly grilled steak should have a "char" appearance over its whole
> surface. If you see "grill marks" the steak is not grilled properly. The
> temperature on the grate surface is too low. The grilling temperature
> should be high enough to evenly grill the whole surface at the same time,
> without relying on the heat in the grate. This is not possible on any
> currently available propane grill, except for a few more expensive
> infrared grills.
>
> Kent
>
>
It's my routine to accomplish by grilling over charcoal with the charcoal 1"
below the surface of the grate. I don't ever grill steak over gas, and will
not until the right infrared product becomes available.

Kent

Kent wrote:

> A properly grilled steak should...snip

The above is the only thing in that entire post that is reasonable, honest,
and accurate. Since you have never really grilled anything on outdoor
equipment, I thought an intervention was in order.

Kent wrote:

> I grill or barbecue at least 130 times a year, on my ....snip

Kent, you poor, poor thing. Lying does not equal outdoor cooking. So when
you SAY that you grill or barbecue 130 times a year, you really mean that
you write LIES about grilling or barbecue on AFB 130 times a year. That is
NOT the same as outdoor cooking. Now, why don't you go post on alt.rac.cars
and tell those good folks how you race Formula One "...at least 130 times a
year".
--
Dave Bugg
"For it's 'guns this' and 'guns that', and 'chuck 'em out, the brutes',
But they're the 'Savior of our loved ones' when the thugs begin to
loot." - Rudyard Kipling

Sqwertz wrote:
> On Sat, 3 Jul 2010 13:54:55 -0700, Dave Bugg wrote:
>
>> Kent wrote:
>>
>>> A properly grilled steak should...snip
>>
>> The above is the only thing in that entire post that is reasonable,
>> honest, and accurate. Since you have never really grilled anything
>> on outdoor equipment, I thought an intervention was in order.
>
> I can just see 5 years from now. Kent will find that "perfect
> grill" and cook his first real Ruths Chris-style steak. He will
> take one bite, smile, and his heart will peacefully stop - but
> he's still grinning.

Yeah, it's a sexual substitute thingy for the ol' fart.

--
Dave Bugg
"For it's 'guns this' and 'guns that', and 'chuck 'em out, the brutes',
But they're the 'Savior of our loved ones' when the thugs begin to
loot." - Rudyard Kipling

In article >,
"Kent" > wrote:

> "Omelet" > wrote in message
> news
> > In article >,
> > "Kent" > wrote:
> >
> >> > It won't be "rare" meat Kent. <sigh>
> >> > --
> >> > Peace! Om
> >> >
> >> >
> >> Om, this isn't a cut of beef you'd want to eat rare. It just looks like a
> >> grilled rare strip steak. As I look at it now it looks great!
> >>
> >> Kent
> >
> > I've personally found that some of the "toughest" cuts of beef are the
> > most tender raw.
> >
> > Steak Tartar for instance, I prefer to make out of top round due to it's
> > lack of fat. I detest raw beef fat.
> >
> > This was the gods... cubed and served with a whipped dipping sauce of
> > soy sauce and raw egg yolk:
> >
> > <http://i16.tinypic.com/5xywje1.jpg>
> > --
> > Peace! Om
> >
> >
> Absolutely agree, on the "raw rare"
>
> Report on the "Chuck Steak": I grilled it, indirectly and covered, as I said
> above, to 175F. The meat was too dry. At that point, or sometime earlier I
> should have braised it, like you would any beef stew.
>
> Kent

You grilled it too "long and slow".
Needed hot and fast!

I've had plenty of tender chuck steaks. ;-)
--
Peace! Om

Web Albums: <http://picasaweb.google.com/OMPOmelet>
*Only Irish *coffee provides in a single glass all four *essential food groups: alcohol, caffeine, sugar *and fat. --Alex Levine

"Omelet" > wrote in message
news
> In article >,
> "Kent" > wrote:
>
>> "Omelet" > wrote in message
>> news
>> > In article >,
>> > "Kent" > wrote:
>> >
>> >> > It won't be "rare" meat Kent. <sigh>
>> >> > --
>> >> > Peace! Om
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> Om, this isn't a cut of beef you'd want to eat rare. It just looks
>> >> like a
>> >> grilled rare strip steak. As I look at it now it looks great!
>> >>
>> >> Kent
>> >
>> > I've personally found that some of the "toughest" cuts of beef are the
>> > most tender raw.
>> >
>> > Steak Tartar for instance, I prefer to make out of top round due to
>> > it's
>> > lack of fat. I detest raw beef fat.
>> >
>> > This was the gods... cubed and served with a whipped dipping sauce of
>> > soy sauce and raw egg yolk:
>> >
>> > <http://i16.tinypic.com/5xywje1.jpg>
>> > --
>> > Peace! Om
>> >
>> >
>> Absolutely agree, on the "raw rare"
>>
>> Report on the "Chuck Steak": I grilled it, indirectly and covered, as I
>> said
>> above, to 175F. The meat was too dry. At that point, or sometime earlier
>> I
>> should have braised it, like you would any beef stew.
>>
>> Kent
>
> You grilled it too "long and slow".
> Needed hot and fast!
>
> I've had plenty of tender chuck steaks. ;-)
> --
Do you eat chuck steak rare? This chuck steak is riddled with fat. You'd
really want to render it in some way. I'm going to do the other two tonight.
The meat has been marinating in a dillute solution containing A-1 sauce as
the primary ingredient. I'm going to semi brown them at a very high
temperature indirectly over charcoal for a short time, and then braise, as
an "A-1 beouf bourguignon". I'll finalize by simmering beef stock and pinot
noir]2 to 1 ratio stock to wine] with lightly browned onions, and a thin
roux for thickening. I braise chuck to the point where the meat falls apart.

I know this sounds a bit wierd. I'm really interested in preserving the A-1
taste.

Kent

In article >,
"Kent" > wrote:

> > You grilled it too "long and slow".
> > Needed hot and fast!
> >
> > I've had plenty of tender chuck steaks. ;-)
> > --
> Do you eat chuck steak rare?

Yes.

> This chuck steak is riddled with fat. You'd
> really want to render it in some way.

Never had a problem with it.

> I'm going to do the other two tonight.
> The meat has been marinating in a dillute solution containing A-1 sauce as
> the primary ingredient. I'm going to semi brown them at a very high
> temperature indirectly over charcoal for a short time, and then braise, as
> an "A-1 beouf bourguignon". I'll finalize by simmering beef stock and pinot
> noir]2 to 1 ratio stock to wine] with lightly browned onions, and a thin
> roux for thickening. I braise chuck to the point where the meat falls apart.
>
> I know this sounds a bit wierd. I'm really interested in preserving the A-1
> taste.
>
> Kent

A-1 is meant to be added to the steak AFTER it's been cooked Kent.

And Braising will never net you a rare steak. It'll be no different
than pot roast or long slow cooked brisket.

If you like well done steak Kent, just admit it! There is no sin in
that. It is not my personal preference but not everybody likes bloody
rare steak like many of us do.

A good pot roast is also quite good, but I do that in the roaster, not
the pit!
--
Peace! Om

Web Albums: <http://picasaweb.google.com/OMPOmelet>
*Only Irish *coffee provides in a single glass all four *essential food groups: alcohol, caffeine, sugar *and fat. --Alex Levine

"Omelet" > wrote in message
news
> In article >,
> "Kent" > wrote:
>
>> > You grilled it too "long and slow".
>> > Needed hot and fast!
>> >
>> > I've had plenty of tender chuck steaks. ;-)
>> > --
>> Do you eat chuck steak rare?
>
> Yes.
>
>> This chuck steak is riddled with fat. You'd
>> really want to render it in some way.
>
> Never had a problem with it.
>
>> I'm going to do the other two tonight.
>> The meat has been marinating in a dillute solution containing A-1 sauce
>> as
>> the primary ingredient. I'm going to semi brown them at a very high
>> temperature indirectly over charcoal for a short time, and then braise,
>> as
>> an "A-1 beouf bourguignon". I'll finalize by simmering beef stock and
>> pinot
>> noir]2 to 1 ratio stock to wine] with lightly browned onions, and a thin
>> roux for thickening. I braise chuck to the point where the meat falls
>> apart.
>>
>> I know this sounds a bit wierd. I'm really interested in preserving the
>> A-1
>> taste.
>>
>> Kent
>
> A-1 is meant to be added to the steak AFTER it's been cooked Kent.
>
> And Braising will never net you a rare steak. It'll be no different
> than pot roast or long slow cooked brisket.
>
> If you like well done steak Kent, just admit it! There is no sin in
> that. It is not my personal preference but not everybody likes bloody
> rare steak like many of us do.
>
> A good pot roast is also quite good, but I do that in the roaster, not
> the pit!
> --
> Peace! Om
>
> The Best of Morning, Om,
The "chuck steak" really wasn't a steak at all. It was a piece of USDA Prime
chuck that Costco cut like a steak. It was the same meat I use in boeuf
bourguignon, or any other long braised meat.

I really don't like A-1[I call it "asso uno sauce" on an expensive steak,
though I like its taste. I ran across a suggestion where someone marinated a
piece of beef with dilute A1, Worcestershire, and a bit of cider vinegar. I
did this, with the chuck overnight, and used the marinade along with beef
stock and wine, two to one ratio by volume, as a braising liquid. I did this
all on the Weber indirectly. I browned the steaks over the coals, and then
made a braise by combining meat and braise in a foil pan. That went onto the
indirect portion of the grill, at 350F, or a simmer, until done, about 2
hours until done, tested by the meat tenderness. It more or less worked. The
flavor was there. I'm not sure I liked the slight A-1, or "asso-uno"
addition, and the meat did not have quite the same consistency when you the
brown pieces of chuck in salt pork fat prior to the braise.

I'm over to chop up the leftovers, and make hot beef sandwiches with the
sauce for lunch. That sounds pretty good as I I'm typing.

Kent