Barbecue (alt.food.barbecue) Discuss barbecue and grilling--southern style "low and slow" smoking of ribs, shoulders and briskets, as well as direct heat grilling of everything from burgers to salmon to vegetables.

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"Mort" > wrote in message
...
> Kent wrote:
>
>> The whole idea of sous vide is to very slowly cook steak through the
>> temperature band where the muscle fibers are enzematically broken
>> down[85F-130F or something close to that]. This is how it's done in a
>> restaurant,
>> http://food.rlove.org/2009/01/perfec...rip-steak.html ,
>> by
>> vacuum packing the steak and very very slowly heating it through this
>> band
>> in a bath of water. Then the steak is seared. The idea is to get the
>> steak
>> fork tender, and rare edge to edge without a grey band under the surface.

>
> Sheer psychosis on your part. That "temperature band" will do
> nothing to promote enzymatic activity.
>
> Unless you actually add enzymes ("meat tenderizers", etc) will be no
> enzymatic effect in anything less than 3 days, MINIMUM. The time
> required for any real world effect is more like 5-7 days. The process
> takes place quite well at refrigerator temps (because temperature is
> not a factor with regard to enzymatic activity, enzymes are!).
>
> This is commonly known as dry aging. How you could have possibly
> convoluterized that up with "sous-vide" is a mystery.
>
> --
> Mort
>
>

My interest in this was prompted by two articles in Cook's Illustrated about
slow cooking and tenderness and flavor of the meat.
The term "enzymatic breakdown" came from two articles. The author, David
Pazminoe, in the Jan-Feb 2008 issue felt that holding meat as long as
possible close to 122F enzymaticaly breaks down muscle fiber and increases
tenderness. I've tried this and the meat is more tender and tasteful
roasting in the usual fashion. I posted this sometime in 2008.

Brian Roofe, in the article, "Inexpensive Grill-Roasted Beef" just published
in Cook's Illustrated says the same thing, that holding the meat at 122F as
long as possible makes beef more tender and flavorful by enzymatic breakdown
of the muscle fibers.

"Sous Vide" means "under vacuum" in English and doesn't have anything to do
with what we're discussing. The restaurateur accomplishes this very slow
cooking in water held at a very constant temperature for a long time. The
vacuum keeps the water away from the meat, while the cooking occurs. The
meat doesn't dry out because of that.

Kent



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Kent wrote:

>.... holding meat as long as possible close to 122F enzymaticaly breaks
>down muscle fiber
> and increases tenderness.


Which has no scientific validity. Enzymes break down meat at a wide range of
temperatures. Hanging meat has been done since before the dark ages to
accomplish that effect. And while one component of aging meat is to reduce
moisture and thereby increasing the flavor of the meat, it also tenderizes
the meat by the effect of enzymatic action.

> I've tried this and the meat is more tender
> and tasteful roasting in the usual fashion.


Purely a placebo effect.

--
Dave Bugg
"For it's 'guns this' and 'guns that', and 'chuck 'em out, the brutes',
But they're the 'Savior of our loved ones' when the thugs begin to
loot." - Rudyard Kipling


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"Sqwertz" > wrote in message
...
> On Mon, 5 Jul 2010 13:38:31 -0700, Kent wrote:
>
>> "Sous Vide" means "under vacuum" in English and doesn't have anything to
>> do
>> with what we're discussing. The restaurateur accomplishes this very slow
>> cooking in water held at a very constant temperature for a long time. The
>> vacuum keeps the water away from the meat, while the cooking occurs. The
>> meat doesn't dry out because of that.

>
> You just said that sous vide doesn't have anything to do with
> this, yet in the very next sentence you go on to describe holding
> steaks under heated water in a vacuum bag.
>
> You're kinda hard to follow, Kent.
>
> Would it surprise you to know that Michael Mina, one of souse vide
> original promoters, doesn't even use sous vide for his steaks?
> You would had you read the article ion Food Arts that I pointed
> you to a couple days ago. Matter of fact, none of the restaurants
> in the article used sous vide (some do get close, though...)
>
> Whatever you do *don't* read the article. I wouldn't want to
> confuse you, or those 2 year old facts all jumbled around in your
> head.
>
> -sw
>
>

I apologize for not being clear. It is a bit confusing. Cooking "sous vide"
has come to mean cooking very slowly at a low temperature. The phrase "sous
vide", however, translates to "under vacuum". At least that's what I've been
reading.

Kent



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"Sqwertz" > wrote in message
...
> On Mon, 5 Jul 2010 13:38:31 -0700, Kent wrote:
>
>> "Sous Vide" means "under vacuum" in English and doesn't have anything to
>> do
>> with what we're discussing. The restaurateur accomplishes this very slow
>> cooking in water held at a very constant temperature for a long time. The
>> vacuum keeps the water away from the meat, while the cooking occurs. The
>> meat doesn't dry out because of that.

>
> You just said that sous vide doesn't have anything to do with
> this, yet in the very next sentence you go on to describe holding
> steaks under heated water in a vacuum bag.
>
> You're kinda hard to follow, Kent.
>
> Would it surprise you to know that Michael Mina, one of souse vide
> original promoters, doesn't even use sous vide for his steaks?
> You would had you read the article ion Food Arts that I pointed
> you to a couple days ago. Matter of fact, none of the restaurants
> in the article used sous vide (some do get close, though...)
>
> Whatever you do *don't* read the article. I wouldn't want to
> confuse you, or those 2 year old facts all jumbled around in your
> head.
>
> -sw
>
>

I can't open anything on the Food Arts page. I'd like to read the article if
there's way to get it.
Thanks in advance if you can.

Kent



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Kent wrote:

> Basically, you want to hold the meat at a stable, low temp while the
> above happens. That's what barbecue, or "low and slow " is all about,
> plus, of course, the smoke.


I know what bbq means far better than you do. What you were talking about
has nothing to do with bbq, but, yet again, you are confused and pathetic in
your attempt to prevail. You are entertaining, in the same way that one
counts the number of roadkill on a long, boring road trip.

--
Dave Bugg
"For it's 'guns this' and 'guns that', and 'chuck 'em out, the brutes',
But they're the 'Savior of our loved ones' when the thugs begin to
loot." - Rudyard Kipling




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Kent wrote:

> I apologize for not being clear.


For someone with a personality disorder of Monk proportions, that seems to
be your stock-n-trade.
--
Dave Bugg
"For it's 'guns this' and 'guns that', and 'chuck 'em out, the brutes',
But they're the 'Savior of our loved ones' when the thugs begin to
loot." - Rudyard Kipling


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Another ABF midsummer classic.

Just got back from a nice long weekend with the family and see this.
Funny stuff.

This is why I would never k/f Kent, just too damn amusing.

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Kent wrote:
> The mistake can be attributed to their science editor, Guy Crosby,
> Ph.D.


Do you really have that much of a disconnect with reality, Kent? YOU were
the one that posted your crap BASED on what you are now calling a 'mistake'.
The Crosby guy didn't post his stuff here. YOU were incorrect. YOU provided
crap. YOU are the one responsible. And this is nothing new for you. You get
caught up in all of this pathetic culinary new-age voodo, like some
addle-brained victim of a cult, because you have never grilled or bbq'd a
thing in your life, and I doubt you even do any cooking indoors. Then you
get called on the AFB carpet because YOU choose to expose us to your
cult-based stupidity. What is truly sad is that you refuse to see the truth
of what you are. Unfortunately, there are no de-programmers for what ails
you.

--
Dave Bugg
"For it's 'guns this' and 'guns that', and 'chuck 'em out, the brutes',
But they're the 'Savior of our loved ones' when the thugs begin to
loot." - Rudyard Kipling


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Kent wrote:

> As you probably know, sous vide cooking is the commercial rage these days.
> Thomas Keller, owner and executive chef of the "The French Laundry", the
> only Michelin 3 star restaurant in California and only one of several in
> the U.S. has just written a book about sous vide.


Yes and he would very much like you to pay $49.95 for it,
and he appreciates you jumping on the hype bandwagon.

> I think it would be pretty
> difficult to do in the home because of equipment requirements. It's of
> interest to this newsgroup because it's tied to "low and slow".


I have a a good deal of experience with sous vide and I don't have
much good to say about it. There may be some legitimate applications
for it in commercial kitchens but not for food quality reasons. It's a
non-starter in that department.

>
> Cook's Illustrated is the editorial product of Christopher Kimball, who also
> has/owns a raft of other food related products. He produces "America's Test
> Kitchen" and "Country Cooking" on PBS every Saturday. The mistake can be
> attributed to their science editor, Guy Crosby, Ph.D.


Problem is, anyone with basic knowledge of food science should
have caught that. I laughed out loud when I read the claim.

--
Mort
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"Mort" > wrote in message
...
> Kent wrote:
>
>> As you probably know, sous vide cooking is the commercial rage these
>> days.
>> Thomas Keller, owner and executive chef of the "The French Laundry", the
>> only Michelin 3 star restaurant in California and only one of several in
>> the U.S. has just written a book about sous vide.

>
> Yes and he would very much like you to pay $49.95 for it,
> and he appreciates you jumping on the hype bandwagon.
>
>> I think it would be pretty
>> difficult to do in the home because of equipment requirements. It's of
>> interest to this newsgroup because it's tied to "low and slow".

>
> I have a a good deal of experience with sous vide and I don't have
> much good to say about it. There may be some legitimate applications
> for it in commercial kitchens but not for food quality reasons. It's a
> non-starter in that department.
>
>>
>> Cook's Illustrated is the editorial product of Christopher Kimball, who
>> also
>> has/owns a raft of other food related products. He produces "America's
>> Test
>> Kitchen" and "Country Cooking" on PBS every Saturday. The mistake can be
>> attributed to their science editor, Guy Crosby, Ph.D.

>
> Problem is, anyone with basic knowledge of food science should
> have caught that. I laughed out loud when I read the claim.
>
> --
> Mort
>
>

I'd forgotten how long it takes for enzymes to work. It's been a long time
since biochemistry.

Kent





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In article >,
"Kent" > wrote:

> As you probably know, sous vide cooking is the commercial rage these days.


So is stacking food for presentation. ;-)
That does not make it good, nor the best way to cook a steak...
--
Peace! Om

Web Albums: <http://picasaweb.google.com/OMPOmelet>
*Only Irish *coffee provides in a single glass all four *essential food groups: alcohol, caffeine, sugar *and fat. --Alex Levine
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"Sqwertz" > wrote in message
...
> On Mon, 5 Jul 2010 15:20:49 -0700, Kent wrote:
>
>> I can't open anything on the Food Arts page. I'd like to read the article
>> if
>> there's way to get it.
>> Thanks in advance if you can.

>
> Oops.
>
> I'm looking at the archives page and it appears the current
> issue's articles are not available online, only last month and
> prior to that.
>
> http://www.foodarts.com/Foodarts/FA_...2,2010,00.html
>
> I guess that makes sense since they want you to subscribe to the
> magazine instead of reading it online. I just saw the table fo
> contents and assumed it was clickable. Sorry.
>
> You'll have to wait until the new issue is released online, I
> guess. Bookmark the page above and check again in a week. I've
> had my issue for at least 2 weeks probably longer.
>
> Also, subscribe to the magazine. It's free. And if you lie
> correctly, they'll approve your subscription automatically. For
> example, I am "Spiro Glover", distributor of fine American lamb
> (and propane accessories <snork>). My company name is "LambRite"
> which was phonetically correct at the time I subscribed. The best
> lies have a hint of truth to them.
>
> It's one of the most informative of all the food/cooking trade
> mags I receive.
>
> -sw
>
>

Thanks, I see it's published by the same people that publish Wine
Spectator. I don't know if that's free anymore or not.

Kent





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Default Report on Chuck Steak

In article >,
"Kent" > wrote:

> The Best of Morning, Om,


Good evening Kent. ;-)

> The "chuck steak" really wasn't a steak at all. It was a piece of USDA Prime
> chuck that Costco cut like a steak. It was the same meat I use in boeuf
> bourguignon, or any other long braised meat.


Chuck does make excellent pot roast, but I adore Chuck Eye (some places
call them chuck tenders) bacon wrapped and cooked hot and fast with a
mild marinade.

>
> I really don't like A-1[I call it "asso uno sauce" on an expensive steak,
> though I like its taste. I ran across a suggestion where someone marinated a
> piece of beef with dilute A1, Worcestershire, and a bit of cider vinegar. I
> did this, with the chuck overnight, and used the marinade along with beef
> stock and wine, two to one ratio by volume, as a braising liquid. I did this
> all on the Weber indirectly. I browned the steaks over the coals, and then
> made a braise by combining meat and braise in a foil pan. That went onto the
> indirect portion of the grill, at 350F, or a simmer, until done, about 2
> hours until done, tested by the meat tenderness. It more or less worked. The
> flavor was there. I'm not sure I liked the slight A-1, or "asso-uno"
> addition, and the meat did not have quite the same consistency when you the
> brown pieces of chuck in salt pork fat prior to the braise.


I would personally avoid an acidic (vinegar) marinade over night for
beef. Chicken or fish, maybe. It tends to denature the meat, chemically
cooking it. I guess it might work on a really thick roast like a brisket
but I'd still not risk it.

I do, however, do long term brining in a sugar/salt solution with herbs
and nitrates. See my Picasa series for Canadian Bacon. Note I did not
add vinegar. <g> The 5 day curing process worked a LOT better for the
final texture than the first try at only 3 days.

I still have a 9lb. pork loin in the freezer. I want to partially thaw
that one just enough to cut 1/3rd off of it and try a 7 day brine/cure.

I did try this with a piece of beef (chuck). Once. Never again! For some
reason, overly salted beef does not work for me like it does for pork...
I ended up tossing it.

As for A-1 in the marinade sauce? It may work for some but does not
appeal to me. The only sauce I'll often use for marinades is maybe some
diluted soy sauce.

Try Barding some beef with bacon some time and see if that works for you?

>
> I'm over to chop up the leftovers, and make hot beef sandwiches with the
> sauce for lunch. That sounds pretty good as I I'm typing.
>
> Kent

--
Peace! Om

Web Albums: <http://picasaweb.google.com/OMPOmelet>
*Only Irish *coffee provides in a single glass all four *essential food groups: alcohol, caffeine, sugar *and fat. --Alex Levine
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the dh asks two question when deciding if his steak is done, grill or
otherwise,

1. is it frozen if no go to next question...
2. is it mooing, if no then plate and eat,

Lee
"Brick" > wrote in message
er.com...
>
> On 2-Jul-2010, bbq > wrote:
>
>> On 7/2/2010 7:36 PM, Kent wrote:
>> > "Dave > wrote in message
>> > ...
>> >> Kent wrote:
>> >>
>> >>> The quantity of charcoal he used was a single layer spread evenly
>> >>> across the whole charcoal grate of a 22" Weber.
>> >>>
>> >>> What can oir do you barbecue or grill on that?? He said "ready to
>> >>> go". He didn't talk about indirect. That won't even grill a brat!
>> >>
>> >> I read exactly what was said and understood it perfectly,
>> >> smegma-fer-brains. The amount of charcoal used will provide plenty of
>> >> heat
>> >> for a normal grilling session for steaks, burgers, dogs, OR BRATS
>> >> unless
>> >> you were cooking for a party instead of a family. Why would you even
>> >> think
>> >> that I was referring to INDIRECT cooking, which takes a longer period
>> >> of
>> >> time and would take MORE charcoal? Why do you not know just how long a
>> >> chimney full of charcoal will provide useable heat for grilling? Why
>> >> are
>> >> you constantly asking questions that any normal person, who actually
>> >> cooks
>> >> with charcoal --- whether lump or briquets --- should know? Why the
>> >> sexually-driven obsession with 'char rare'? The answer: you don't, nor
>> >> have you EVER, done any outdoor grilling or barbecue. YOU are a
>> >> groupie.
>> >> YOU are a desperate, pathetic hanger-on. YOU read some books about
>> >> grilling, watched some cooking channel shows on barbecue, and thought
>> >> being part of the outdoor cooking crowd was THE in-thing to do. YOU
>> >> are
>> >> nothing but a fraud, a poseur, a wanna-be.
>> >>
>> >> Now, go on back to Sears and window shop the grills until you get a
>> >> stiffie, then fantasize about really cooking outdoors. Oh, and don't
>> >> forget to post your next proof that you have never actually grilled a
>> >> thing: a formulaic opinion of why the btu's of a said amount of
>> >> charcoal
>> >> in said amount of equipment will not have the capability to grill said
>> >> amount of meat. After all, that is another typical Kentism,
>> >> desperately
>> >> arguing theoritical crap into the ground because you have no
>> >> real-world
>> >> experience.
>> >> --
>> >> Dave Bugg
>> >>
>> >>
>> > I looked at that video again. The amount of charcoal Cheney used
>> > resulted in
>> > a single layer of burning coals on the charcoal grate marginally more
>> > than
>> > one coal high. That leaves 4-5 inches between the charcoal and the
>> > cooking
>> > grate. On that 22" Weber with that charcoal arrangement you won't get
>> > enough heat to grill a steak with the lid up.
>> >
>> > Do you grill strip steak with a hood up or down? As I recall I don't
>> > think
>> > you use the Weber for direct grilling. Maybe that's the difference in
>> > our
>> > points of view.
>> >
>> > As I write I'm grilling indirectly on the Weber Performer two USDA
>> > Prime
>> > "Chuck Steaks". After salt and pepper I painted the meat with A-1
>> > Sauce,
>> > diluted with water and a small bit of vinegar. The hood down "Indirect
>> > oven"
>> > temp. is 275F. To what temp. would you cook this? More than 175F?? I'm
>> > thinking 175F, to the point where the meat begins to fall apart.
>> >
>> > Thanks so much and a happy fourth to you Dave.
>> >
>> > Kent
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >

>> Cook it to what ever want. It's your meat. Most people around here will
>> cook a steak to blood rare(100° ), rare (120°), medium (140°), well
>> (160°), leather (180°)
>>
>> I don't use "chuck steaks" for a steak. I use Sirloin, NY Strip,
>> Porterhouse or Prime Rib for steak meals. Chuck Steaks, I would use for
>> a small batch of chili, stew or goulash.
>>
>> Turn up the heat, all you have to do is turn up the dial. Why wait so
>> long to cook "just a steak"?
>>
>> BBQ

>
> I want to know where Kent found a Chuck steak labelled USDA Prime.
> As far as what temp to cook a steak to, the subject is rediculous. I
> never heard of anybody that measures the temperature of a steak.
> And finally, I wouldn't think of ever trying to cook a steak with indirect
> heat. By definition, Grilling is cooking over high direct heat. I've heard
> of folks finishing a steak over indirect heat or even in an oven, but I
> personally am not going there. I limit my steak thickness to about
> 1-1/4" and they do just fine over very hot direct charcoal heat, two
> to three minutes to a side. I have no idea what temperature they end
> up at. They come off blood rare in the middle and get to the table a
> nice medium rare. (Warm, but not hot, center)
>
> --
> Brick said that



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left or right hooved, Lee, the farmer's daughter
"bbq" > wrote in message
...
> On 7/2/2010 10:32 PM, Sqwertz wrote:
>
>>
>> I know the result already: Dry. Depending on which part of part
>> of the shoulder he's referring to, it could be drier than dry.
>>
>> -sw

>
>
> Could it also be dependent on if the cow was left or right handed, (maybe
> shouldered is better word)? ;-)
>
> BBQ





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In article >,
"Stormmee" > wrote:

> the dh asks two question when deciding if his steak is done, grill or
> otherwise,
>
> 1. is it frozen if no go to next question...
> 2. is it mooing, if no then plate and eat,
>
> Lee


<lol>

Sounds like me!
--
Peace! Om

Web Albums: <http://picasaweb.google.com/OMPOmelet>
*Only Irish *coffee provides in a single glass all four *essential food groups: alcohol, caffeine, sugar *and fat. --Alex Levine
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wht always amases me is that people who think he is useless continue to
answer/engage him, i just get rid of posters that irritate me, i have enough
RL stress that looking for it in ngs is just a concept that is beyond me,
Lee
"Omelet" > wrote in message
news
> In article >,
> "Dave Bugg" > wrote:
>
>> > Thanks so much, and again I apologize for my comments before. I don't
>> > feel very good when I do something like this, especially to a NG
>> > contributor like you.
>> >
>> > Kent

>>
>> Om, do you need any clearer example of why the majority of us have long
>> ago
>> quit interacting with this nitwit, unless it is to make fun of him. If
>> you
>> do realize it, is this realization from home or at work? What were you
>> eating at the time of this realization? If you were eating, was it animal
>> or
>> vegetable, hot or cold? Do you think your car was a factor in the
>> realization of Kent's nitwitery? What kind of car do you drive? Is it
>> 'char-rare' in color?

>
> More importantly, what was I wearing? <g>
>
> JUST KIDDING!!!
>
> Sorry luv, but I sometimes post not too bright things too and end up
> regretting them. :-) And I DO get beat up for it on some lists!
>
> Life has been far more stressful than normal lately and I regret some
> posts I've made on r.f.c.
>
> I guess it's just in me to give him the benefit of the doubt and be nice
> to him. Time will tell if he learnt his lessons the hard way like I did,
> especially earlier in my "career" on usenet. I posted like a total
> dumbass before I learned some of the dynamics.
>
> Give him another chance. Then if he screws up again, put him in to
> permanent killfile.
>
> Forgive me for being soft hearted enough to root for an underdog. <g>
> --
> Peace! Om
>
> Web Albums: <http://picasaweb.google.com/OMPOmelet>
> Only Irish coffee provides in a single glass all four essential food
> groups: alcohol, caffeine, sugar and fat. --Alex Levine



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lol, Lee
"Omelet" > wrote in message
news
> In article >,
> Sqwertz > wrote:
>
>> On Fri, 02 Jul 2010 23:10:30 -0500, Omelet wrote:
>>
>> > I've held 3 (real) jobs in 23 years.
>> >
>> > You?

>>
>> Now you're trying to belittle me with blind pot shots?

>
> You started it! <she responds childishly>
>
>>
>> I've had 5. And they averaged a hell of a lot more than you make
>> at your "real" jobs.

>
> And? How do you know what I really make, with overtime?
> (which has been a LOT considering how badly my field is currently
> understaffed).
>
> And more importantly, have you SAVED any of it with your prime beef
> habit?
>
>>
>> Now shut the **** up. Or not. Insert last word he (I know you
>> will)
>>
>> -sw

>
> I'm a woman. What's your excuse? <eg>
>
> <daring Steve to respond...>
> --
> Peace! Om
>
> Web Albums: <http://picasaweb.google.com/OMPOmelet>
> Only Irish coffee provides in a single glass all four essential food
> groups: alcohol, caffeine, sugar and fat. --Alex Levine



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my father is always a bit uncomfortable when dh goes and looks at the
cattle... sorta like, he thinks dh will cut off a hunk and eat, Lee
"Omelet" > wrote in message
news
> In article >,
> "Stormmee" > wrote:
>
>> the dh asks two question when deciding if his steak is done, grill or
>> otherwise,
>>
>> 1. is it frozen if no go to next question...
>> 2. is it mooing, if no then plate and eat,
>>
>> Lee

>
> <lol>
>
> Sounds like me!
> --
> Peace! Om
>
> Web Albums: <http://picasaweb.google.com/OMPOmelet>
> Only Irish coffee provides in a single glass all four essential food
> groups: alcohol, caffeine, sugar and fat. --Alex Levine



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om is good hearted, Lee
"Dave Bugg" > wrote in message
...
> Kent wrote:
>> "Sqwertz" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>> On Thu, 1 Jul 2010 10:19:36 -0700, Kent wrote:
>>>
>>>> I suspect we've all used his lighting techniques, except maybe for
>>>> the "blowtorch" lighter. The problem I have with his video is that
>>>> he's not using enough charcoal to grill. The grate temp. wtih that
>>>> amount of charcoal
>>>> would not grill a steak char rare.
>>>
>>> Perhaps he's "slow grilling for tenderness" [sic]
>>>
>>> -sw
>>>
>>>

>> You should sear before or after, and then "low temp" cook in the WSM
>> @ about 200-225F. His demo leaves you with a grill with at least 350F
>> at the grate.

>
> Un-freakin'-believable. And Om thinks you are salvageable.
>
> --
> Dave Bugg
> "For it's 'guns this' and 'guns that', and 'chuck 'em out, the brutes',
> But they're the 'Savior of our loved ones' when the thugs begin to
> loot." - Rudyard Kipling
>





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om,

if i croak in the near future, and the dh posts such, you need to correspond
with him, you already have lots in commom with him, ll, Lee
"Omelet" > wrote in message
news
> In article >,
> "Kent" > wrote:
>
>> > It won't be "rare" meat Kent. <sigh>
>> > --
>> > Peace! Om
>> >
>> >

>> Om, this isn't a cut of beef you'd want to eat rare. It just looks like a
>> grilled rare strip steak. As I look at it now it looks great!
>>
>> Kent

>
> I've personally found that some of the "toughest" cuts of beef are the
> most tender raw.
>
> Steak Tartar for instance, I prefer to make out of top round due to it's
> lack of fat. I detest raw beef fat.
>
> This was the gods... cubed and served with a whipped dipping sauce of
> soy sauce and raw egg yolk:
>
> <http://i16.tinypic.com/5xywje1.jpg>
> --
> Peace! Om
>
> Web Albums: <http://picasaweb.google.com/OMPOmelet>
> Only Irish coffee provides in a single glass all four essential food
> groups: alcohol, caffeine, sugar and fat. --Alex Levine



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pot roast in slow cooker, have a seven quart s/c and it is one of the few
things i put together and do instead of dh... he is in general a better cook
than I am, but i do the pot roasts. Lee
"Omelet" > wrote in message
news
> In article >,
> "Kent" > wrote:
>
>> > You grilled it too "long and slow".
>> > Needed hot and fast!
>> >
>> > I've had plenty of tender chuck steaks. ;-)
>> > --

>> Do you eat chuck steak rare?

>
> Yes.
>
>> This chuck steak is riddled with fat. You'd
>> really want to render it in some way.

>
> Never had a problem with it.
>
>> I'm going to do the other two tonight.
>> The meat has been marinating in a dillute solution containing A-1 sauce
>> as
>> the primary ingredient. I'm going to semi brown them at a very high
>> temperature indirectly over charcoal for a short time, and then braise,
>> as
>> an "A-1 beouf bourguignon". I'll finalize by simmering beef stock and
>> pinot
>> noir]2 to 1 ratio stock to wine] with lightly browned onions, and a thin
>> roux for thickening. I braise chuck to the point where the meat falls
>> apart.
>>
>> I know this sounds a bit wierd. I'm really interested in preserving the
>> A-1
>> taste.
>>
>> Kent

>
> A-1 is meant to be added to the steak AFTER it's been cooked Kent.
>
> And Braising will never net you a rare steak. It'll be no different
> than pot roast or long slow cooked brisket.
>
> If you like well done steak Kent, just admit it! There is no sin in
> that. It is not my personal preference but not everybody likes bloody
> rare steak like many of us do.
>
> A good pot roast is also quite good, but I do that in the roaster, not
> the pit!
> --
> Peace! Om
>
> Web Albums: <http://picasaweb.google.com/OMPOmelet>
> Only Irish coffee provides in a single glass all four essential food
> groups: alcohol, caffeine, sugar and fat. --Alex Levine



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In article >,
"Stormmee" > wrote:

> my father is always a bit uncomfortable when dh goes and looks at the
> cattle... sorta like, he thinks dh will cut off a hunk and eat, Lee


<laughs> I totally understand!!!
--
Peace! Om

Web Albums: <http://picasaweb.google.com/OMPOmelet>
*Only Irish *coffee provides in a single glass all four *essential food groups: alcohol, caffeine, sugar *and fat. --Alex Levine
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In article >,
"Stormmee" > wrote:

> "Omelet" > wrote in message
> news >
> > I've personally found that some of the "toughest" cuts of beef are the
> > most tender raw.
> >
> > Steak Tartar for instance, I prefer to make out of top round due to it's
> > lack of fat. I detest raw beef fat.
> >
> > This was the gods... cubed and served with a whipped dipping sauce of
> > soy sauce and raw egg yolk:
> >
> > <http://i16.tinypic.com/5xywje1.jpg>
> > --
> > Peace! Om
> >

> om,
>
> if i croak in the near future, and the dh posts such, you need to correspond
> with him, you already have lots in commom with him, ll, Lee


I doubt you will croak any time soon... :-)
Besides, I'd miss YOU!
--
Peace! Om

Web Albums: <http://picasaweb.google.com/OMPOmelet>
*Only Irish *coffee provides in a single glass all four *essential food groups: alcohol, caffeine, sugar *and fat. --Alex Levine
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In article >,
"Stormmee" > wrote:

> pot roast in slow cooker, have a seven quart s/c and it is one of the few
> things i put together and do instead of dh... he is in general a better cook
> than I am, but i do the pot roasts. Lee


Hm, so does that work similar to a crock pot?

I've considered using the crock pot this week and making some pot roast
for dad, He's getting bored with the usual even though I made baked
catfish this past week.

The fish came out really good that way. :-d
I baked it in the convection oven.
--
Peace! Om

Web Albums: <http://picasaweb.google.com/OMPOmelet>
*Only Irish *coffee provides in a single glass all four *essential food groups: alcohol, caffeine, sugar *and fat. --Alex Levine


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while i don't understand eating it that way i have accepted this is what dh
wants... and since he cooks mine done enough i am good with it, especially
now i can't see the blood run on his plate, there really is a list of stuff
its just fine i can't see, lol, Lee
"Omelet" > wrote in message
news
> In article >,
> "Stormmee" > wrote:
>
>> my father is always a bit uncomfortable when dh goes and looks at the
>> cattle... sorta like, he thinks dh will cut off a hunk and eat, Lee

>
> <laughs> I totally understand!!!
> --
> Peace! Om
>
> Web Albums: <http://picasaweb.google.com/OMPOmelet>
> Only Irish coffee provides in a single glass all four essential food
> groups: alcohol, caffeine, sugar and fat. --Alex Levine



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i'm just sayin' Lee
"Omelet" > wrote in message
news
> In article >,
> "Stormmee" > wrote:
>
>> "Omelet" > wrote in message
>> news >>
>> > I've personally found that some of the "toughest" cuts of beef are the
>> > most tender raw.
>> >
>> > Steak Tartar for instance, I prefer to make out of top round due to
>> > it's
>> > lack of fat. I detest raw beef fat.
>> >
>> > This was the gods... cubed and served with a whipped dipping sauce of
>> > soy sauce and raw egg yolk:
>> >
>> > <http://i16.tinypic.com/5xywje1.jpg>
>> > --
>> > Peace! Om
>> >

>> om,
>>
>> if i croak in the near future, and the dh posts such, you need to
>> correspond
>> with him, you already have lots in commom with him, ll, Lee

>
> I doubt you will croak any time soon... :-)
> Besides, I'd miss YOU!
> --
> Peace! Om
>
> Web Albums: <http://picasaweb.google.com/OMPOmelet>
> Only Irish coffee provides in a single glass all four essential food
> groups: alcohol, caffeine, sugar and fat. --Alex Levine



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the one i have is a seven quart oval shaped that you can take the ceramic
out of the heating element, and i think dh told me it said slow cooking
crock pot on one side and the other side said, two part slow cooker... lol,
i think its the same critter, like soda/pop...

what i do is this.
-Cut celery in lengths to go across the crock lay one layer in.
-Cut carrots to fit in length wise, clean as you normally do, i don't peel
just clean and cut ends. again one layer. i lay them in close and end to
base so i get more in.
-season pot roast as you would like and place on bed of carrots and celery.
-slice onion of choice and place on top of roast.
-carefully put in acup or so of beef broth being careful to not dislodge
spices on roast.
-cook on high for 2 hours then on low until done.
-if you want to do it over night just put it on low and let it rip.

variations include;
-use pearl onions underneath and mushrooms on top.
-add green beans, and juice if canned.
-use any fresh begetables that are in the frige and need to be used up.

if you use potatoes cut them and place around the outside edges I leave
skins on, when i use them but i actually prefer rice with this and some of
the juice poured over the rice.

Lee

"Omelet" > wrote in message
news
> In article >,
> "Stormmee" > wrote:
>
>> pot roast in slow cooker, have a seven quart s/c and it is one of the few
>> things i put together and do instead of dh... he is in general a better
>> cook
>> than I am, but i do the pot roasts. Lee

>
> Hm, so does that work similar to a crock pot?
>
> I've considered using the crock pot this week and making some pot roast
> for dad, He's getting bored with the usual even though I made baked
> catfish this past week.
>
> The fish came out really good that way. :-d
> I baked it in the convection oven.
> --
> Peace! Om
>
> Web Albums: <http://picasaweb.google.com/OMPOmelet>
> Only Irish coffee provides in a single glass all four essential food
> groups: alcohol, caffeine, sugar and fat. --Alex Levine



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In article >,
"Stormmee" > wrote:

> while i don't understand eating it that way i have accepted this is what dh
> wants... and since he cooks mine done enough i am good with it, especially
> now i can't see the blood run on his plate, there really is a list of stuff
> its just fine i can't see, lol, Lee


I understand... :-)

It's like my series on chicken foot stock.
There is a reason I hide in my bedroom with the salt shaker and eat
pressure cooked chicken feet in private!
--
Peace! Om

Web Albums: <http://picasaweb.google.com/OMPOmelet>
*Only Irish *coffee provides in a single glass all four *essential food groups: alcohol, caffeine, sugar *and fat. --Alex Levine
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In article >,
"Stormmee" > wrote:

> the one i have is a seven quart oval shaped that you can take the ceramic
> out of the heating element, and i think dh told me it said slow cooking
> crock pot on one side and the other side said, two part slow cooker... lol,
> i think its the same critter, like soda/pop...
>
> what i do is this.
> -Cut celery in lengths to go across the crock lay one layer in.
> -Cut carrots to fit in length wise, clean as you normally do, i don't peel
> just clean and cut ends. again one layer. i lay them in close and end to
> base so i get more in.
> -season pot roast as you would like and place on bed of carrots and celery.
> -slice onion of choice and place on top of roast.
> -carefully put in acup or so of beef broth being careful to not dislodge
> spices on roast.
> -cook on high for 2 hours then on low until done.
> -if you want to do it over night just put it on low and let it rip.
>
> variations include;
> -use pearl onions underneath and mushrooms on top.
> -add green beans, and juice if canned.
> -use any fresh begetables that are in the frige and need to be used up.
>
> if you use potatoes cut them and place around the outside edges I leave
> skins on, when i use them but i actually prefer rice with this and some of
> the juice poured over the rice.
>
> Lee


Ah, gotcha.

You layer veggies similar to the way I do except I put the carrots on
the bottom. Mine also has a low, high and warm setting and a ceramic
insert. Mushrooms and onions do go on top. Thanks!

What seasonings and spices do you use?

I also do not peel carrots or potatoes.

The baked potatoes I made last night came out as good as they did last
time. I use Yukon golds and nuke them in a corningware with some water
to speed up the cooking time. They are mostly done coming out of the
microwave. I then place them nekkid into the convection oven at 375 for
45 minutes to 1 hour depending on their size.

This dries them a bit and makes a nice crispy skin without over-cooking
them and drying them out.

My sister thought it was a cool idea. :-) I may get them a small
convection oven like I have for her birthday. It's small, but large
enough to cook a standard 5 lb. chicken.

It is an Oster.
--
Peace! Om

Web Albums: <http://picasaweb.google.com/OMPOmelet>
*Only Irish *coffee provides in a single glass all four *essential food groups: alcohol, caffeine, sugar *and fat. --Alex Levine


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bletch" i still have a pretty good visualation center,, oohhh, Lee
"Omelet" > wrote in message
news
> In article >,
> "Stormmee" > wrote:
>
>> while i don't understand eating it that way i have accepted this is what
>> dh
>> wants... and since he cooks mine done enough i am good with it,
>> especially
>> now i can't see the blood run on his plate, there really is a list of
>> stuff
>> its just fine i can't see, lol, Lee

>
> I understand... :-)
>
> It's like my series on chicken foot stock.
> There is a reason I hide in my bedroom with the salt shaker and eat
> pressure cooked chicken feet in private!
> --
> Peace! Om
>
> Web Albums: <http://picasaweb.google.com/OMPOmelet>
> Only Irish coffee provides in a single glass all four essential food
> groups: alcohol, caffeine, sugar and fat. --Alex Levine



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i put the celery on the bottom because i want it uber done for broth
purposes... a lot of the time i use no seasonings on the roast as i am
usually doing a huge one, think, fills the whole insert... same settings
btw, if it is a smaller one my real favorite is cumen and rosemary only,
neither of us like salt much and DH is an anti pepper fanatic.

I do same for chicken, Lee
"Omelet" > wrote in message
news
> In article >,
> "Stormmee" > wrote:
>
>> the one i have is a seven quart oval shaped that you can take the ceramic
>> out of the heating element, and i think dh told me it said slow cooking
>> crock pot on one side and the other side said, two part slow cooker...
>> lol,
>> i think its the same critter, like soda/pop...
>>
>> what i do is this.
>> -Cut celery in lengths to go across the crock lay one layer in.
>> -Cut carrots to fit in length wise, clean as you normally do, i don't
>> peel
>> just clean and cut ends. again one layer. i lay them in close and end to
>> base so i get more in.
>> -season pot roast as you would like and place on bed of carrots and
>> celery.
>> -slice onion of choice and place on top of roast.
>> -carefully put in acup or so of beef broth being careful to not dislodge
>> spices on roast.
>> -cook on high for 2 hours then on low until done.
>> -if you want to do it over night just put it on low and let it rip.
>>
>> variations include;
>> -use pearl onions underneath and mushrooms on top.
>> -add green beans, and juice if canned.
>> -use any fresh begetables that are in the frige and need to be used up.
>>
>> if you use potatoes cut them and place around the outside edges I leave
>> skins on, when i use them but i actually prefer rice with this and some
>> of
>> the juice poured over the rice.
>>
>> Lee

>
> Ah, gotcha.
>
> You layer veggies similar to the way I do except I put the carrots on
> the bottom. Mine also has a low, high and warm setting and a ceramic
> insert. Mushrooms and onions do go on top. Thanks!
>
> What seasonings and spices do you use?
>
> I also do not peel carrots or potatoes.
>
> The baked potatoes I made last night came out as good as they did last
> time. I use Yukon golds and nuke them in a corningware with some water
> to speed up the cooking time. They are mostly done coming out of the
> microwave. I then place them nekkid into the convection oven at 375 for
> 45 minutes to 1 hour depending on their size.
>
> This dries them a bit and makes a nice crispy skin without over-cooking
> them and drying them out.
>
> My sister thought it was a cool idea. :-) I may get them a small
> convection oven like I have for her birthday. It's small, but large
> enough to cook a standard 5 lb. chicken.
>
> It is an Oster.
> --
> Peace! Om
>
> Web Albums: <http://picasaweb.google.com/OMPOmelet>
> Only Irish coffee provides in a single glass all four essential food
> groups: alcohol, caffeine, sugar and fat. --Alex Levine



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In article >,
"Stormmee" > wrote:

> i put the celery on the bottom because i want it uber done for broth
> purposes... a lot of the time i use no seasonings on the roast as i am
> usually doing a huge one, think, fills the whole insert... same settings
> btw, if it is a smaller one my real favorite is cumen and rosemary only,
> neither of us like salt much and DH is an anti pepper fanatic.
>
> I do same for chicken, Lee


I understand!
--
Peace! Om

Web Albums: <http://picasaweb.google.com/OMPOmelet>
*Only Irish *coffee provides in a single glass all four *essential food groups: alcohol, caffeine, sugar *and fat. --Alex Levine
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