Barbecue (alt.food.barbecue) Discuss barbecue and grilling--southern style "low and slow" smoking of ribs, shoulders and briskets, as well as direct heat grilling of everything from burgers to salmon to vegetables.

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Default Help: Bad baby back ribs

I've got a WSMC and thought I was doing pretty good.

I bbq'd 3 racks of baby backs yesterday, and now I think otherwise.

The meat was cooked to perfect doneness (fall off the bone, but
juicy), but just doesn't taste right.

I think the problem is a combination of too much rub and/or too much
smoke. The rub was a no-salt, lemonade-type rub from Raichlen's book.
The fire was Kingsford briquets with hickory chips.

The Q's;

Rub: How much rub to apply? A sprinkle, like was salting scrambled
eggs? Or a thick, generous pour and rub it in? Or something between?

Smoke: I've heard "just a wisp" is the rule. HOw much smoke-chips or
smoke-wood is right? For how long?

As always, thanks a heap,
-Zz
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Default Help: Bad baby back ribs


"Zz Yzx" > wrote

> The Q's;
>
> Rub: How much rub to apply? A sprinkle, like was salting scrambled
> eggs? Or a thick, generous pour and rub it in? Or something between?



Very little, IMO. I don't want to eat heavily spiced food with the texture
of sawdust on it. Rubs enhance, not overpower or become the main flavor.
Too often, beginners rub them with the same amount of spices they'd put on a
6" around roast. Look at the meat to rub ratio.


>
> Smoke: I've heard "just a wisp" is the rule. HOw much smoke-chips or
> smoke-wood is right? For how long?


You should barely see any smoke. Billowing smoke, too cold a fire,
over-soaked chips can all give a creosote flavor to the meat. After an
hour on ribs it makes no difference so just stop it. Wood should burn, not
smolder

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Default Bad baby back ribs

Zz Yzx wrote:
> I've got a WSMC and thought I was doing pretty good.
>
> I bbq'd 3 racks of baby backs yesterday, and now I think otherwise.
>
> The meat was cooked to perfect doneness (fall off the bone, but
> juicy), but just doesn't taste right.


Hey, man. I believe that ribs should have a bit of toothy tug to them. If
they just come loose from the bone, the meat is overdone. Ed hit my other
points just fine. I know what the WSM is, what is the WSMC?

--
Dave
What is best in life? "To crush your enemies, see them driven before
you, and to hear the lamentation of the women." -- Conan


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Default Bad baby back ribs

On Sat, 24 Apr 2010 12:08:59 -0700, "Dave Bugg" >
wrote:

> I know what the WSM is, what is the WSMC?


Weber Smokey Mountain Cooker?
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Default Bad baby back ribs

"Zz Yzx" > wrote in message
...
> I've got a WSMC and thought I was doing pretty good.
>
> I bbq'd 3 racks of baby backs yesterday, and now I think otherwise.
>
> The meat was cooked to perfect doneness (fall off the bone, but
> juicy), but just doesn't taste right.
>
> I think the problem is a combination of too much rub and/or too much
> smoke. The rub was a no-salt, lemonade-type rub from Raichlen's book.
> The fire was Kingsford briquets with hickory chips.
>
> The Q's;
>
> Rub: How much rub to apply? A sprinkle, like was salting scrambled
> eggs? Or a thick, generous pour and rub it in? Or something between?
>
> Smoke: I've heard "just a wisp" is the rule. HOw much smoke-chips or
> smoke-wood is right? For how long?
>
> As always, thanks a heap,
> -Zz



Detail the, 'but just doesn't taste right' first made me think the meat was
rotten or something. a beginner rub would be for example light sprinkling of
something like Lawry's seasones salt or Sylvia's. One ladies fist size of
hickory chunk wrapped in foil with three toothpick size holes in the foil
would be enough. Or, if you were cooking directly over coal then no wood at
all. Probably the Kingsford with hickory is the main culprit, go to plain
Kingsford and foil a chunk of hickory as I discribe. Then again, yech, a
lemonade type rub, gag!!!

mike / piedmont



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Default Bad baby back ribs

"Zz Yzx" > wrote in message
...
> I've got a WSMC and thought I was doing pretty good.
>
> I bbq'd 3 racks of baby backs yesterday, and now I think otherwise.
>
> The meat was cooked to perfect doneness (fall off the bone, but
> juicy), but just doesn't taste right.
>
> I think the problem is a combination of too much rub and/or too much
> smoke. The rub was a no-salt, lemonade-type rub from Raichlen's book.
> The fire was Kingsford briquets with hickory chips.
>
> The Q's;
>
> Rub: How much rub to apply? A sprinkle, like was salting scrambled
> eggs? Or a thick, generous pour and rub it in? Or something between?
>
> Smoke: I've heard "just a wisp" is the rule. HOw much smoke-chips or
> smoke-wood is right? For how long?
>
> As always, thanks a heap,
> -Zz


Another thought, I would say Kingsford with hickory is best used in an open
top grill, not a closed cooker like a E CB or WSM.

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Default Help: Bad baby back ribs

On 4/24/2010 12:28 PM, Zz Yzx wrote:
> I've got a WSMC and thought I was doing pretty good.
>
> I bbq'd 3 racks of baby backs yesterday, and now I think otherwise.
>
> The meat was cooked to perfect doneness (fall off the bone, but
> juicy), but just doesn't taste right.
>
> I think the problem is a combination of too much rub and/or too much
> smoke. The rub was a no-salt, lemonade-type rub from Raichlen's book.
> The fire was Kingsford briquets with hickory chips.
>
> The Q's;
>
> Rub: How much rub to apply? A sprinkle, like was salting scrambled
> eggs? Or a thick, generous pour and rub it in? Or something between?
>
> Smoke: I've heard "just a wisp" is the rule. HOw much smoke-chips or
> smoke-wood is right? For how long?
>
> As always, thanks a heap,
> -Zz



I don't cook till the fall off the bone. I want ribs to be tender, but
still finger food, so a slight tug when knawing on them is perfect.

Rubs are sprinkled heavily and rubbed in if you want. The entire surface
of the meat should have rub.

Get some natural lump charcoal. Stay away from Kingsford. I use natural
lump charcoal and 2-3 chunks of what ever wood I am using. Hickory for
beef and pork. Apple for poultry.

I can't say how much smoke, but I have heard just a wisp is fine. I
never felt meat was too heavily smoked. Cheese, yes, the one time I
smoked cheddar, it was heavily smoked. The next day though it was fine.

BBQ
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Default Help: Bad baby back ribs

> Get some natural lump charcoal. Stay away from Kingsford. I use natural
> lump charcoal and 2-3 chunks of what ever wood I am using. Hickory for
> beef and pork. Apple for poultry.
>
> I can't say how much smoke, but I have heard just a wisp is fine. I
> never felt meat was too heavily smoked. Cheese, yes, the one time I
> smoked cheddar, it was heavily smoked. The next day though it was fine.
>
> BBQ



I agree with everything said about the rub, the wet wood and
cooking them only till they pull with a gnaw.

In summary: ALL of these problems will be non-issues once
you start cooking with Lump.

Craig- they showed me the way
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"Craig Watts" > wrote in message
...
>> Get some natural lump charcoal. Stay away from Kingsford. I use natural
>> lump charcoal and 2-3 chunks of what ever wood I am using. Hickory for
>> beef and pork. Apple for poultry.
>>
>> I can't say how much smoke, but I have heard just a wisp is fine. I never
>> felt meat was too heavily smoked. Cheese, yes, the one time I smoked
>> cheddar, it was heavily smoked. The next day though it was fine.
>>
>> BBQ

>
>
> I agree with everything said about the rub, the wet wood and cooking them
> only till they pull with a gnaw.
>
> In summary: ALL of these problems will be non-issues once you start
> cooking with Lump.
>
> Craig- they showed me the way



Well, not really. I do indeed like lump except for the cost. Lump is lighter
then briquettes and lump can last as long as briq.s if measured pound for
pound. But because he is cooking indirectly in WSM using lump would be a
waste IMHO.

--
regards, piedmont (michael)
The Practical BBQ'r - http://sites.google.com/site/thepracticalbbqr/
(mawil55) Hardiness Zone 7-8

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On 4/25/2010 7:14 AM, piedmont wrote:
> "Craig Watts" > wrote in message
> ...
>>> Get some natural lump charcoal. Stay away from Kingsford. I use
>>> natural lump charcoal and 2-3 chunks of what ever wood I am using.
>>> Hickory for beef and pork. Apple for poultry.
>>>
>>> I can't say how much smoke, but I have heard just a wisp is fine. I
>>> never felt meat was too heavily smoked. Cheese, yes, the one time I
>>> smoked cheddar, it was heavily smoked. The next day though it was fine.
>>>
>>> BBQ

>>
>>
>> I agree with everything said about the rub, the wet wood and cooking
>> them only till they pull with a gnaw.
>>
>> In summary: ALL of these problems will be non-issues once you start
>> cooking with Lump.
>>
>> Craig- they showed me the way

>
>
> Well, not really. I do indeed like lump except for the cost. Lump is
> lighter then briquettes and lump can last as long as briq.s if measured
> pound for pound. But because he is cooking indirectly in WSM using lump
> would be a waste IMHO.
>



There is a natural briquette available from Royal Oak. That is
acceptable to. I can find both at a Butcher Shop.

One thing that has not been mentioned, I'll bet he used fluid to start
the coals. Fluid is a NO NO to.

Use a chimney starter and 2-3 sheets of newspaper to get the lump or
natural briquettes started. Weber has starter cubes and they work well
to, if you don't like the ash of newspaper.

Stay away from Kingsford and Fluid. Like Craig said "ALL of these
problems will be non-issues".

BBQ - They showed me the way to


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>One thing that has not been mentioned, I'll bet he used fluid to start
>the coals. Fluid is a NO NO to.
>
>Use a chimney starter and 2-3 sheets of newspaper to get the lump or
>natural briquettes started. Weber has starter cubes and they work well
>to, if you don't like the ash of newspaper.

I know better than to use starter fluid. I've used a chimney and
newspaper from the git-go.

But thanks

-Zz
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Zz Yzx wrote:
>>One thing that has not been mentioned, I'll bet he used fluid to start
>>the coals. Fluid is a NO NO to.
>>
>>Use a chimney starter and 2-3 sheets of newspaper to get the lump or
>>natural briquettes started. Weber has starter cubes and they work well
>>to, if you don't like the ash of newspaper.

>
> I know better than to use starter fluid. I've used a chimney and
> newspaper from the git-go.
>
> But thanks
>
> -Zz


Personally we like the electric starters from Home Depot.
They are ten bucks and easy to use when close to the house.
We use the chimney for camping and the beach.

Craig
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On 4/25/2010 1:28 PM, Craig Watts wrote:
> Zz Yzx wrote:
>>> One thing that has not been mentioned, I'll bet he used fluid to
>>> start the coals. Fluid is a NO NO to.
>>>
>>> Use a chimney starter and 2-3 sheets of newspaper to get the lump or
>>> natural briquettes started. Weber has starter cubes and they work
>>> well to, if you don't like the ash of newspaper.

>>
>> I know better than to use starter fluid. I've used a chimney and
>> newspaper from the git-go.
>>
>> But thanks
>>
>> -Zz

>
> Personally we like the electric starters from Home Depot. They are ten
> bucks and easy to use when close to the house. We use the chimney for
> camping and the beach.
>
> Craig



Those work to. Though I have never tried the one I bought 3 or 4 years
ago :-)

BBQ
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Default Help: Bad baby back ribs

BBQ > wrote:
> [ . . . ]
> Stay away from Kingsford and Fluid. Like Craig said "ALL of these
> problems will be non-issues".
>
> BBQ - They showed me the way to


http://www.nakedwhiz.com/lumpothertesting.htm

--
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On Sun, 25 Apr 2010 09:59:07 -0500, BBQ wrote:

> One thing that has not been mentioned, I'll bet he used fluid to start
> the coals. Fluid is a NO NO to.


I use fluid as a starter and have never had any complaints. You
cannot tell fluid was used as the starter. As long as you don't
have the body on the unit for the initial petroleum soot to collect
in/on, then you'll be just fine. I can guarantee you'll never know
the difference.

-sw


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In article >,
Sqwertz > wrote:

> On Sun, 25 Apr 2010 09:59:07 -0500, BBQ wrote:
>
> > One thing that has not been mentioned, I'll bet he used fluid to start
> > the coals. Fluid is a NO NO to.

>
> I use fluid as a starter and have never had any complaints. You
> cannot tell fluid was used as the starter. As long as you don't
> have the body on the unit for the initial petroleum soot to collect
> in/on, then you'll be just fine. I can guarantee you'll never know
> the difference.
>
> -sw


I'll sometimes use Kerosine. It seems to burn off a lot cleaner with no
residue.

And it's cheaper.
--
Peace! Om

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Only Irish coffee provides in a single glass all four essential food groups: alcohol, caffeine, sugar and fat. --Alex Levine
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Default Help: Bad baby back ribs

Seems like you have received a lot of good advice, starting back with
Ed.

The only thing I would add is that the WSM is a slow cooker, so make
sure you don't overdo your seasoning wood. When I started using mine,
I put too much wood in there on the other fuel. This is from a guy
that cooked on wood
only for 20+ years.

The only thing I can figure is that since I cook on the WSM at low
temps, the outside of the meat doesn't dry up, nothing in the rub
hardens/carmelizes immediately (hence the lack of bark).

While I cook on my offset at about 300 - 325F for brisket and pork
shoulder, when I cook on the WSM I usually only hit about 225 - 250F
depending on how the pit feels.

The WSM was purpose bought so that I could put some Q on the night
before and actually sleep all night without checking it. The Q tastes
different from the stuff coming off the offset, but the WSM turns out
a great product.

One of the things I did was to cut down the amount of wood I used
dramatically for the long smokes (12 - 16 hours) and the meat has the
right amount of smoke. Like you have been told, a thin blue wisp is
all you need. There are times with the WSM I think the fire has gone
out, but the end result is still has plenty of smoke flavor, but
doesn't get bitter.

For a 12+ hour brisket smoke (+/- 250F) I use about 4-5 pieces of wood
about 2"X4" and toss in another 2-3 when I add more fuel, which is
usually around the 8 hour mark.

Robert
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On Apr 26, 12:50*am, " >
wrote:

> One of the things I did was to cut down the amount of wood I used
> dramatically for the long smokes (12 - 16 hours) and the meat has the
> right amount of smoke. *Like you have been told, a thin blue wisp is
> all you need. *There are times with the WSM I think the fire has gone
> out, but the end result is still has plenty of smoke flavor, but
> doesn't get bitter.


My experience is that meat will effectively stop soaking-up
smoke as the exterior of the meat begins to cook, perhaps 2-3
hours or so. My strategy in the WSM is to use 5-6 finger-sized
pieces of smoke would in the fuel pile arranged to burn early.
No soaking or wrapping, just finger-sized pieces buried in the
fuel pile where they smolder early in the cook.

Cheers,
Dana

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On 4/26/2010 11:19 AM, Dana wrote:
> On Apr 26, 12:50 am, >
> wrote:
>
>> One of the things I did was to cut down the amount of wood I used
>> dramatically for the long smokes (12 - 16 hours) and the meat has the
>> right amount of smoke. Like you have been told, a thin blue wisp is
>> all you need. There are times with the WSM I think the fire has gone
>> out, but the end result is still has plenty of smoke flavor, but
>> doesn't get bitter.

>
> My experience is that meat will effectively stop soaking-up
> smoke as the exterior of the meat begins to cook, perhaps 2-3
> hours or so. My strategy in the WSM is to use 5-6 finger-sized
> pieces of smoke would in the fuel pile arranged to burn early.
> No soaking or wrapping, just finger-sized pieces buried in the
> fuel pile where they smolder early in the cook.
>
> Cheers,
> Dana
>



I have heard that once the meat reaches 140° or so, no more smoke wood
is needed. If there is still some left, let it be. No need to add more
though if it burns out. You will still get some smoke from the lump.

Been considering just using lump and not adding any wood. Will be an
interesting experiment. Wish I had 2 WSM's. Cook a butt on each, one
with lump only and one with lump and hickory.

I do have a cheap char broil. Maybe dig that out for an experiment such
as this. But gotta wait till I can get butts at 99 cents or less per
pound :-)

BBQ


--

It is not the employer who pays the wages. Employers only
handle the money. It is the customer who pays the wages.
(and the taxes, my addition)
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On Apr 26, 2:21*pm, BBQ > wrote:

> I have heard that once the meat reaches 140° or so, no more smoke wood
> is needed. If there is still some left, let it be. No need to add more
> though if it burns out. You will still get some smoke from the lump.


I've heard the same thing about 140° F or so, and it's close-enough
for me.
I agree with you.

> Been considering just using lump and not adding any wood. Will be an
> interesting experiment. Wish I had 2 WSM's. Cook a butt on each, one
> with lump only and one with lump and hickory.


All of the lump and lump briquettes (Rancher or TJ's) I've ever used
produce a
steady and functional level of smoke, so you might be surprised how
much you
like no-added-wood. I mean, I don't add very much wood now it's
enough.

Sounds like a worthy experiment but that meat does start to get
expensive.
You have to get people to start paying for your meat to feed their
party
so you can experiment :-)

Cheers,
Dana


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On 4/27/2010 1:49 AM, Dana wrote:
> On Apr 26, 2:21 pm, > wrote:
>
>> I have heard that once the meat reaches 140° or so, no more smoke wood
>> is needed. If there is still some left, let it be. No need to add more
>> though if it burns out. You will still get some smoke from the lump.

>
> I've heard the same thing about 140° F or so, and it's close-enough
> for me.
> I agree with you.
>
>> Been considering just using lump and not adding any wood. Will be an
>> interesting experiment. Wish I had 2 WSM's. Cook a butt on each, one
>> with lump only and one with lump and hickory.

>
> All of the lump and lump briquettes (Rancher or TJ's) I've ever used
> produce a
> steady and functional level of smoke, so you might be surprised how
> much you
> like no-added-wood. I mean, I don't add very much wood now it's
> enough.
>
> Sounds like a worthy experiment but that meat does start to get
> expensive.
> You have to get people to start paying for your meat to feed their
> party
> so you can experiment :-)
>

Great idea... Fourth of July party. Potluck style. Me, I supply ice
and coolers and lump. Ok, outdoor plates and utensils too !!

Good luck in your competition...

BBQ

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handle the money. It is the customer who pays the wages.
(and the taxes, my addition)
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