I was reviewing another post and the discussion turned to searing. A
statement was made to the effect that you can not sear meat using
propane and that you needed at least 1000F degrees of heat and a cast
iron grate to accomplish a sear. Don't tell me about a steak house you
go to and what they do and how hot their heat is and such. They have
PRIME, AGED MEAT. Most of us do not. It really does make a difference.
And there are several grades of CHOICE too. Most just don't know that.

OK.

I call bull shit.

I am not going to start a debate on whether searing seals in the
juices. It in fact does not. Take 2 equal steaks, sear one, cook both,
weigh before and after. The seared steak will lose just a TAD more
moisture than the non seared steak. I did this verifying what Alton
did on Good Eats. But in TASTE, well, the seared steak was imho,
better. BY FAR.

Searing WILL change the texture of the surface of the steak and for
many, well, that really is what makes the steak better tasting.

Cast iron grates don't really matter as not enough of the surface of
the metal is touching the meat. The sear comes from high heat.
Infrared, gas, propane, lump, really does not matter in creating a
sear. You could heat a rock (as some wague cooking is done) and sear.
A really hot cast iron pan can sear, but you are better off using 2,
one for each side of the steak.

All you need is 700F degrees at contact with the meat. It can be gas,
open flame, cast iron, what ever. Over 700, you get a faster sear.
Better, but not the end all be all difference.

The surface of the meat being dry sure does help for obvious reasons.

Just my 2 cents.

Peace!

Gene


http://www.nowyourcooking.net/

"We Americans have more food to eat than any other people and more diets to keep us from eating it"

In article >,
Gene > wrote:

> All you need is 700F degrees at contact with the meat. It can be gas,
> open flame, cast iron, what ever. Over 700, you get a faster sear.
> Better, but not the end all be all difference.
>
> The surface of the meat being dry sure does help for obvious reasons.
>
> Just my 2 cents.
>
> Peace!
>
> Gene

A 400 degree broiler element does a pretty good job too.;-)
Glad you mentioned drying the steak surface. I have a T-bone in the
'frige for later today with a rub on it I applied last night and it's
uncovered on a plate.

I will let it come to room temp before broiling it. ;-d

Since the broiler is the toaster oven, it'll be about 1" from the
elements...
--
Peace! Om

Web Albums: <http://picasaweb.google.com/OMPOmelet>
"We're all adults here, except for those of us who aren't." --Blake Murphy

On Fri, 26 Mar 2010 04:00:06 -0600, Omelet >
wrote:

>In article >,
> Gene > wrote:
>
>> All you need is 700F degrees at contact with the meat. It can be gas,
>> open flame, cast iron, what ever. Over 700, you get a faster sear.
>> Better, but not the end all be all difference.
>>
>> The surface of the meat being dry sure does help for obvious reasons.
>>
>> Just my 2 cents.
>>
>> Peace!
>>
>> Gene
>
>A 400 degree broiler element does a pretty good job too.;-)
>Glad you mentioned drying the steak surface. I have a T-bone in the
>'frige for later today with a rub on it I applied last night and it's
>uncovered on a plate.
>
>I will let it come to room temp before broiling it. ;-d
>
>Since the broiler is the toaster oven, it'll be about 1" from the
>elements...

Glad you responded as I miss you

The real key is to caramelize the surface of the meat and getting an
even dark brown crust with out "charring" it black. Black is not good
taste.

If you really want to "kill" it (well done) you are better off searing
on one side in a cast iron pan and then turn it and put it in a
preheated 400 degree oven. But I know your set up (from previous
posts).

I agree, room temp meat, ALWAYS!

The rub, depending on how much salt is in it and the way that the
fridge draws out moisture could aid in drying out the surface of the
meat. Good

One note of caution. If the rub contains sugar, the sugar WILL burn at
400. Not good. But I think you already know that

400 degrees in a toaster oven. At 1 inch that could be about 700 but I
really can't be sure.

My oldest son is here (for 2 weeks) and leaves on Sunday morn at about
4 AM. We haven't seen him in 3 years. I will be doing porterhouses
Sat. for a special going away meal.

My BBQ rub (that I sent out for Sec. Santa) is going on those babies.
I am not going to use the gas grill but am using a grill loaded with
Mesq. wood on one side. Getting the meat from a butcher I go to once
or twice a year. He knows me and knows that I know meat. I write up
cooking tips for him to pass out to his customers, he ensures I get
the best meat when I do go there.

This butcher serves only the top grade of choice and if the farm he
gets his meat from is out of top choice they send him PRIME at the
same price, which he then in turn passes on to his customers at the
same price as his choice. Enlightened self interest!!! I hope he is
out of choice





Gene


http://www.nowyourcooking.net/

"If people let government decide
what foods they eat and what medicines
they take, their bodies will soon be
in as sorry a state as are the souls of
those who live under tyranny"

"Thomas Jefferson"

In article >,
Gene > wrote:

> On Fri, 26 Mar 2010 04:00:06 -0600, Omelet >
> wrote:
>
> >A 400 degree broiler element does a pretty good job too.;-)
> >Glad you mentioned drying the steak surface. I have a T-bone in the
> >'frige for later today with a rub on it I applied last night and it's
> >uncovered on a plate.
> >
> >I will let it come to room temp before broiling it. ;-d
> >
> >Since the broiler is the toaster oven, it'll be about 1" from the
> >elements...
>
> Glad you responded as I miss you

Cheers! :-)
I've been posting mostly on r.f.c. I'm still kind of a "newbie" to real
smoking and BBQ'ing so I mostly just observe here and learn. <g>

>
> The real key is to caramelize the surface of the meat and getting an
> even dark brown crust with out "charring" it black. Black is not good
> taste.

Indeed.

>
> If you really want to "kill" it (well done) you are better off searing
> on one side in a cast iron pan and then turn it and put it in a
> preheated 400 degree oven. But I know your set up (from previous
> posts).

It will sit on a rack with a drip pan too so that helps. I've used the
broiler or pizza setting in the oven a couple of times for steaks and
it's working well. I just make sure that I pre-heat the little thing
and use a timer as I prefer my steaks rare.

>
> I agree, room temp meat, ALWAYS!

Took me awhile to learn that!

>
> The rub, depending on how much salt is in it and the way that the
> fridge draws out moisture could aid in drying out the surface of the
> meat. Good

Lemon pepper, MSG preceded by a very light coating of soy sauce.

>
> One note of caution. If the rub contains sugar, the sugar WILL burn at
> 400. Not good. But I think you already know that

Nah. no sugar, but thanks! <g>
>
> 400 degrees in a toaster oven. At 1 inch that could be about 700 but I
> really can't be sure.
>
> My oldest son is here (for 2 weeks) and leaves on Sunday morn at about
> 4 AM. We haven't seen him in 3 years. I will be doing porterhouses
> Sat. for a special going away meal.

Yum!

>
> My BBQ rub (that I sent out for Sec. Santa) is going on those babies.
> I am not going to use the gas grill but am using a grill loaded with
> Mesq. wood on one side. Getting the meat from a butcher I go to once
> or twice a year. He knows me and knows that I know meat. I write up
> cooking tips for him to pass out to his customers, he ensures I get
> the best meat when I do go there.

Nice arrangement.
Watch out tho' for using pure mesquite! I made that mistake once and
had to toss a piece of smoked brisket as it was way too bitter. I now
use more oak (since I have plenty of fallen branches at the moment) and
just add a small amount of mesquite to my oak coals.

>
> This butcher serves only the top grade of choice and if the farm he
> gets his meat from is out of top choice they send him PRIME at the
> same price, which he then in turn passes on to his customers at the
> same price as his choice. Enlightened self interest!!! I hope he is
> out of choice

<lol>
--
Peace! Om

Web Albums: <http://picasaweb.google.com/OMPOmelet>
"We're all adults here, except for those of us who aren't." --Blake Murphy

snip

>Lemon pepper, MSG preceded by a very light coating of soy sauce.

Soy sauce has the salt and MSG is only one atom away from salt (or one
molecule, I can't remember). MSG is NOT bad. God save us from bull
shit please.

>>
>> One note of caution. If the rub contains sugar, the sugar WILL burn at
>> 400. Not good. But I think you already know that
>
>Nah. no sugar, but thanks! <g>
>>
>> 400 degrees in a toaster oven. At 1 inch that could be about 700 but I
>> really can't be sure.
>>
>> My oldest son is here (for 2 weeks) and leaves on Sunday morn at about
>> 4 AM. We haven't seen him in 3 years. I will be doing porterhouses
>> Sat. for a special going away meal.
>
>Yum!
>
>>
>> My BBQ rub (that I sent out for Sec. Santa) is going on those babies.
>> I am not going to use the gas grill but am using a grill loaded with
>> Mesq. wood on one side. Getting the meat from a butcher I go to once
>> or twice a year. He knows me and knows that I know meat. I write up
>> cooking tips for him to pass out to his customers, he ensures I get
>> the best meat when I do go there.
>
>Nice arrangement.

Wait till I hit him on my DVD idea!

>Watch out tho' for using pure mesquite! I made that mistake once and
>had to toss a piece of smoked brisket as it was way too bitter. I now
>use more oak (since I have plenty of fallen branches at the moment) and
>just add a small amount of mesquite to my oak coals.

Thanks but I would never and have never used pure mesq. for brisket.
It is a low slow cook and would/could turn the meat bitter. But for
fast cooking like steaks it adds the smoke I like with out the bitter.

You really got to try it some time for steaks. Burns very hot!



Gene


http://www.nowyourcooking.net/

"If people let government decide
what foods they eat and what medicines
they take, their bodies will soon be
in as sorry a state as are the souls of
those who live under tyranny"

"Thomas Jefferson"

In article >,
Gene > wrote:

> snip
>
> >Lemon pepper, MSG preceded by a very light coating of soy sauce.
>
> Soy sauce has the salt

I know, but adds more flavor too. :-)

> and MSG is only one atom away from salt (or one
> molecule, I can't remember). MSG is NOT bad. God save us from bull
> shit please.

You may note I'm not afraid to use it. It helps me use less salt
actually.
>
> >> My BBQ rub (that I sent out for Sec. Santa) is going on those babies.
> >> I am not going to use the gas grill but am using a grill loaded with
> >> Mesq. wood on one side. Getting the meat from a butcher I go to once
> >> or twice a year. He knows me and knows that I know meat. I write up
> >> cooking tips for him to pass out to his customers, he ensures I get
> >> the best meat when I do go there.
> >
> >Nice arrangement.
>
> Wait till I hit him on my DVD idea!

I can hardly wait!
>
> >Watch out tho' for using pure mesquite! I made that mistake once and
> >had to toss a piece of smoked brisket as it was way too bitter. I now
> >use more oak (since I have plenty of fallen branches at the moment) and
> >just add a small amount of mesquite to my oak coals.
>
> Thanks but I would never and have never used pure mesq. for brisket.
> It is a low slow cook and would/could turn the meat bitter. But for
> fast cooking like steaks it adds the smoke I like with out the bitter.
>
> You really got to try it some time for steaks. Burns very hot!
>
I currently have a large pile of it... :-)
>
> Gene
>
>
> http://www.nowyourcooking.net/
--
Peace! Om

Web Albums: <http://picasaweb.google.com/OMPOmelet>
"We're all adults here, except for those of us who aren't." --Blake Murphy

On Mar 26, 7:30*am, Omelet > wrote:
> In article >,
>
> *Gene > wrote:
> > snip
>
> > >Lemon pepper, MSG preceded by a very light coating of soy sauce.
>
> > Soy sauce has the salt
>
> I know, but adds more flavor too. :-)
>
> > and MSG is only one atom away from salt (or one
> > molecule, I can't remember). MSG is NOT bad. God save us from bull
> > shit please.
>
> You may note I'm not afraid to use it. It helps me use less salt
> actually.
>
>
>
> > >> My BBQ rub (that I sent out for Sec. Santa) is going on those babies..
> > >> I am not going to use the gas grill but am using a grill loaded with
> > >> Mesq. wood on one side. Getting the meat from a butcher I go to once
> > >> or twice a year. He knows me and knows that I know meat. I write up
> > >> cooking tips for him to pass out to his customers, he ensures I get
> > >> the best meat when I do go there.
>
> > >Nice arrangement.
>
> > Wait till I hit him on my DVD idea!
>
> I can hardly wait!
>
> > >Watch out tho' for using pure mesquite! *I made that mistake once and
> > >had to toss a piece of smoked brisket as it was way too bitter. *I now
> > >use more oak (since I have plenty of fallen branches at the moment) and
> > >just add a small amount of mesquite to my oak coals.
>
> > Thanks but I would never and have never used pure mesq. for brisket.
> > It is a low slow cook and would/could turn the meat bitter. But for
> > fast cooking like steaks it adds the smoke I like with out the bitter.
>
> > You really got to try it some time for steaks. Burns very hot!
>
> I currently have a large pile of it... :-)
>
> > Gene
>
> >
> >http://www.nowyourcooking.net/
>
> --
> Peace! Om
>
> Web Albums: <http://picasaweb.google.com/OMPOmelet>
> "We're all adults here, except for those of us who aren't." --Blake Murphy

Glad to see you here Om. I had to look and be sure which group I was
in.
Nanzi

In article
>,
Olde Hippee > wrote:

> Glad to see you here Om. I had to look and be sure which group I was
> in.
> Nanzi

<salutes> Good to see you here too! Been awhile since I've seen you.
:-)
--
Peace! Om

Web Albums: <http://picasaweb.google.com/OMPOmelet>
"We're all adults here, except for those of us who aren't." --Blake Murphy

Gene wrote:
> I was reviewing another post and the discussion turned to searing. A
> statement was made to the effect that you can not sear meat using
> propane and that you needed at least 1000F degrees of heat and a cast
> iron grate to accomplish a sear. Don't tell me about a steak house you
> go to and what they do and how hot their heat is and such. They have
> PRIME, AGED MEAT. Most of us do not. It really does make a difference.
> And there are several grades of CHOICE too. Most just don't know that.
>
> OK.
>
> I call bull shit.
>
> I am not going to start a debate on whether searing seals in the
> juices. It in fact does not.

The science is with you on that one, Gene. I don't care about searing meat
on a grill, and I find it funny that our anal-retentive grinder monkey
constantly obsesses on it. If the meat surface hasn't caramelized enough, I
take a blow torch to my steak. Problem solved.
--
Dave
What is best in life? "To crush your enemies, see them driven before
you, and to hear the lamentation of the women." -- Conan

Omelet wrote:
> In article >,
> Gene > wrote:
>
>> On Fri, 26 Mar 2010 04:00:06 -0600, Omelet >
>> wrote:
>>
>>> A 400 degree broiler element does a pretty good job too.;-)
>>> Glad you mentioned drying the steak surface. I have a T-bone in the
>>> 'frige for later today with a rub on it I applied last night and
>>> it's uncovered on a plate.
>>>
>>> I will let it come to room temp before broiling it. ;-d
>>>
>>> Since the broiler is the toaster oven, it'll be about 1" from the
>>> elements...
>>
>> Glad you responded as I miss you
>
> Cheers! :-)
> I've been posting mostly on r.f.c. I'm still kind of a "newbie" to
> real smoking and BBQ'ing so I mostly just observe here and learn. <g>

Stick around here with real people. Between here and the .tx ng you can keep
a bit of sanity. RFC is like being Alice going through the looking glass.

--
Dave
What is best in life? "To crush your enemies, see them driven before
you, and to hear the lamentation of the women." -- Conan

Gene > wrote:
> [ . . . ]
> All you need is 700F degrees at contact with the meat. It can be gas,
> open flame, cast iron, what ever. Over 700, you get a faster sear.
> Better, but not the end all be all difference.

Agreed. I heat a CI pan up to 700 F (measured with an Omega HHM290's
non-contact laser sensor), wipe the steak with EVOO and a light sprinkle of
garlic salt. Beautiful sear! A couple of minutes on a side and it's charred
blod-rare. Perfect for backstrap, too.

--
Nick, KI6VAV. Support severely wounded and disabled Veterans and their
families: https://www.woundedwarriorproject.org/ Thank a Veteran!
Support Our Troops: http://anymarine.com/ You are not forgotten.
Thanks ! ! ~Semper Fi~ USMC 1365061

In article >,
"Dave Bugg" > wrote:

> Omelet wrote:
> > In article >,
> > Gene > wrote:
> >
> >> On Fri, 26 Mar 2010 04:00:06 -0600, Omelet >
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >>> A 400 degree broiler element does a pretty good job too.;-)
> >>> Glad you mentioned drying the steak surface. I have a T-bone in the
> >>> 'frige for later today with a rub on it I applied last night and
> >>> it's uncovered on a plate.
> >>>
> >>> I will let it come to room temp before broiling it. ;-d
> >>>
> >>> Since the broiler is the toaster oven, it'll be about 1" from the
> >>> elements...
> >>
> >> Glad you responded as I miss you
> >
> > Cheers! :-)
> > I've been posting mostly on r.f.c. I'm still kind of a "newbie" to
> > real smoking and BBQ'ing so I mostly just observe here and learn. <g>
>
> Stick around here with real people. Between here and the .tx ng you can keep
> a bit of sanity. RFC is like being Alice going through the looking glass.

<lol> It sure can be sometimes! I tend to kf the political threads for
the most part. That helps. :-) tx. can get a little irritating tho' with
the political crossposts, but they are easy to filter out.

So far, I like it here! I'm such a carnivore...
--
Peace! Om

Web Albums: <http://picasaweb.google.com/OMPOmelet>
"We're all adults here, except for those of us who aren't." --Blake Murphy

On 26-Mar-2010, Gene > wrote:

.. . .

>
> All you need is 700F degrees at contact with the meat. It can be gas,
> open flame, cast iron, what ever. Over 700, you get a faster sear.
> Better, but not the end all be all difference.
>
> The surface of the meat being dry sure does help for obvious reasons.
>
> Just my 2 cents.
>
> Peace!
>
> Gene

I read through the whole thread and had to do a double take. Every
single poster knew what they were talking about and every post
contributed something. I need to double check what I'm drinking.
I must be high on something.

I don't do steaks in the kitchen very often. My stove hood vent isn't
powerful enough to carry off the smoke. And I find myself reluctant
to get a grill pan hot enough on my stovetop to get the job done right.
I have an unjustified fear of damaging my cooktop with the heat reflected
from a super hot grill or grillpan.

Last week I got stingy with the fuel in my sportsman grill even though I
knew better. I could hold my hand within about 2 inches of the grill, but
went ahead and tried to cook steaks anyway. Needless to say, 7 minutes
on a side is no way to cook a steak.

Last night I built a proper fire. I couldn't get my hand closer then about
8 inches from the grill. The steaks were perfect at 2 minutes per side.
(1 inch NY steaks). Nice even sear, even close to a char on the ends and
even 3/4" thick rare center.

I had fuel in the firebox withing about 1 inch of the grill. There was some
grease drip into the fire, but flareup was minimized by virtually
vaporizing
the grease as fast as it dripped. I did not have to move the meat or resort
to spritzing the fire. I love it when a plan comes together.

Sides were large baker potatoes roasted naked in a 400F oven with
20 p nails inserted in both ends with about 1-1/2" sticking out. Taters
were cooked to 200F then wrapped in dish towels to mellow out while
I got the table set up. Steamed green beans rounded out the plate with
hot crusty Italian bread and whipped butter on the side.

Its hard to give enough credit to the flavor developed in the surface of
a properly seared steak as opposed to a fully cooked but unseared
steak. I personally like just the right amount of S&P seared right into
the steak. I never use garlic or onion with such high heat.

--
Brick (Agreeing by example with the rest of the thread)

On Fri, 26 Mar 2010 05:30:03 -0600, Omelet >
wrote:

>In article >,
> Gene > wrote:
>
>> snip
>>
>> >Lemon pepper, MSG preceded by a very light coating of soy sauce.
>>
>> Soy sauce has the salt
>
>I know, but adds more flavor too. :-)

Nothing wrong with the salt from the soy!
>
>> and MSG is only one atom away from salt (or one
>> molecule, I can't remember). MSG is NOT bad. God save us from bull
>> shit please.
>
>You may note I'm not afraid to use it. It helps me use less salt
>actually.

Yeppers!!!

>>
>> >> My BBQ rub (that I sent out for Sec. Santa) is going on those babies.
>> >> I am not going to use the gas grill but am using a grill loaded with
>> >> Mesq. wood on one side. Getting the meat from a butcher I go to once
>> >> or twice a year. He knows me and knows that I know meat. I write up
>> >> cooking tips for him to pass out to his customers, he ensures I get
>> >> the best meat when I do go there.
>> >
>> >Nice arrangement.
>>
>> Wait till I hit him on my DVD idea!
>
>I can hardly wait!

Me either


>>
>> >Watch out tho' for using pure mesquite! I made that mistake once and
>> >had to toss a piece of smoked brisket as it was way too bitter. I now
>> >use more oak (since I have plenty of fallen branches at the moment) and
>> >just add a small amount of mesquite to my oak coals.
>>
>> Thanks but I would never and have never used pure mesq. for brisket.
>> It is a low slow cook and would/could turn the meat bitter. But for
>> fast cooking like steaks it adds the smoke I like with out the bitter.
>>
>> You really got to try it some time for steaks. Burns very hot!
>>
>I currently have a large pile of it... :-)

You are more than welcome to drive some over here. I will Q you a real
"Gene" meal! Um, that might not have come out right :}~

>>
>> Gene
>>
>>
>> http://www.nowyourcooking.net/
Gene


http://www.nowyourcooking.net/

"If people let government decide
what foods they eat and what medicines
they take, their bodies will soon be
in as sorry a state as are the souls of
those who live under tyranny"

"Thomas Jefferson"

snip

>The science is with you on that one, Gene. I don't care about searing meat
>on a grill, and I find it funny that our anal-retentive grinder monkey
>constantly obsesses on it. If the meat surface hasn't caramelized enough, I
>take a blow torch to my steak. Problem solved.

I really love a good sear, but for the texture and flavor. Blow torch
works for you? GOOD! My motto is "do what works". That motto applies
to cooking, my Martial Arts, raising my kids, and my sex life. OK,
that might have been TMI! LOL!


Gene


http://www.nowyourcooking.net/

"If people let government decide
what foods they eat and what medicines
they take, their bodies will soon be
in as sorry a state as are the souls of
those who live under tyranny"

"Thomas Jefferson"

On 26 Mar 2010 22:08:55 GMT, Nick Cramer >
wrote:

>Gene > wrote:
>> [ . . . ]
>> All you need is 700F degrees at contact with the meat. It can be gas,
>> open flame, cast iron, what ever. Over 700, you get a faster sear.
>> Better, but not the end all be all difference.
>
>Agreed. I heat a CI pan up to 700 F (measured with an Omega HHM290's
>non-contact laser sensor), wipe the steak with EVOO and a light sprinkle of
>garlic salt. Beautiful sear! A couple of minutes on a side and it's charred
>blod-rare. Perfect for backstrap, too.

The only stakes that do not do well in cast iron are stakes that have
the bone in. I do ribeye stakes the very same way you do!

Glad to see you again bud!!!!

Gene


http://www.nowyourcooking.net/

"If people let government decide
what foods they eat and what medicines
they take, their bodies will soon be
in as sorry a state as are the souls of
those who live under tyranny"

"Thomas Jefferson"

snip

>
>I read through the whole thread and had to do a double take. Every
>single poster knew what they were talking about and every post
>contributed something. I need to double check what I'm drinking.
>I must be high on something.

Aww man. Now you jinxed it!

>
>I don't do steaks in the kitchen very often. My stove hood vent isn't
>powerful enough to carry off the smoke. And I find myself reluctant
>to get a grill pan hot enough on my stovetop to get the job done right.
>I have an unjustified fear of damaging my cooktop with the heat reflected
>from a super hot grill or grillpan.

My hood fan is the same way. I disconnect the smoke detector and put a
box fan in the window!

>
>Last week I got stingy with the fuel in my sportsman grill even though I
>knew better. I could hold my hand within about 2 inches of the grill, but
>went ahead and tried to cook steaks anyway. Needless to say, 7 minutes
>on a side is no way to cook a steak.

Happens to us all. I have ruined my fare share. It happens when I know
better but do something anyway.


>Last night I built a proper fire. I couldn't get my hand closer then about
>8 inches from the grill. The steaks were perfect at 2 minutes per side.
>(1 inch NY steaks). Nice even sear, even close to a char on the ends and
>even 3/4" thick rare center.
>
>I had fuel in the firebox withing about 1 inch of the grill. There was some
>grease drip into the fire, but flareup was minimized by virtually
>vaporizing
>the grease as fast as it dripped. I did not have to move the meat or resort
>to spritzing the fire. I love it when a plan comes together.

PPEPPP! OK, for those never in the services..Poor Planning Equals
**** Poor Performance. Unlike what Brick did here

>
>Sides were large baker potatoes roasted naked in a 400F oven with
>20 p nails inserted in both ends with about 1-1/2" sticking out. Taters
>were cooked to 200F then wrapped in dish towels to mellow out while
>I got the table set up. Steamed green beans rounded out the plate with
>hot crusty Italian bread and whipped butter on the side.
>
>Its hard to give enough credit to the flavor developed in the surface of
>a properly seared steak as opposed to a fully cooked but unseared
>steak. I personally like just the right amount of S&P seared right into
>the steak. I never use garlic or onion with such high heat.

Sounds fantastic!

Good to hear from you again bud!


Gene


http://www.nowyourcooking.net/

"If people let government decide
what foods they eat and what medicines
they take, their bodies will soon be
in as sorry a state as are the souls of
those who live under tyranny"

"Thomas Jefferson"

Gene > wrote:
> snip
>
> >The science is with you on that one, Gene. I don't care about searing
> >meat on a grill, and I find it funny that our anal-retentive grinder
> >monkey constantly obsesses on it. If the meat surface hasn't caramelized
> >enough, I take a blow torch to my steak. Problem solved.
>
> I really love a good sear, but for the texture and flavor. Blow torch
> works for you? GOOD! My motto is "do what works". That motto applies
> to cooking, my Martial Arts, raising my kids, and my sex life. OK,
> that might have been TMI! LOL!

Dave prolly runs his blowtorch on CH3NO2.

--
Nick, KI6VAV. Support severely wounded and disabled Veterans and their
families: https://www.woundedwarriorproject.org/ Thank a Veteran!
Support Our Troops: http://anymarine.com/ You are not forgotten.
Thanks ! ! ~Semper Fi~ USMC 1365061

On 27 Mar 2010 04:45:49 GMT, Nick Cramer >
wrote:

>Gene > wrote:
>> snip
>>
>> >The science is with you on that one, Gene. I don't care about searing
>> >meat on a grill, and I find it funny that our anal-retentive grinder
>> >monkey constantly obsesses on it. If the meat surface hasn't caramelized
>> >enough, I take a blow torch to my steak. Problem solved.
>>
>> I really love a good sear, but for the texture and flavor. Blow torch
>> works for you? GOOD! My motto is "do what works". That motto applies
>> to cooking, my Martial Arts, raising my kids, and my sex life. OK,
>> that might have been TMI! LOL!
>
>Dave prolly runs his blowtorch on CH3NO2.

Nitromethane. Hmmmm....

You know I am still wanting to try LOX as a fuel for grilling. And I
don't mean the salmon.

See http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TBLr_XrooLs



Gene


http://www.nowyourcooking.net/

"If people let government decide
what foods they eat and what medicines
they take, their bodies will soon be
in as sorry a state as are the souls of
those who live under tyranny"

"Thomas Jefferson"

Gene > wrote:
> Nick Cramer > wrote:
> [ . . . ]
> >Dave prolly runs his blowtorch on CH3NO2.
>
> Nitromethane. Hmmmm....

Another fuelly, eh?

> You know I am still wanting to try LOX as a fuel for grilling. And I
> don't mean the salmon.

Hmmm. LOX/LH2 should get purty hot. "To the Moon, Alice!" LMFAO

--
Nick, KI6VAV. Support severely wounded and disabled Veterans and their
families: https://www.woundedwarriorproject.org/ Thank a Veteran!
Support Our Troops: http://anymarine.com/ You are not forgotten.
Thanks ! ! ~Semper Fi~ USMC 1365061

In article .com>,
"Brick" > wrote:

> On 26-Mar-2010, Gene > wrote:
>
> . . .
>
> >
> > All you need is 700F degrees at contact with the meat. It can be gas,
> > open flame, cast iron, what ever. Over 700, you get a faster sear.
> > Better, but not the end all be all difference.
> >
> > The surface of the meat being dry sure does help for obvious reasons.
> >
> > Just my 2 cents.
> >
> > Peace!
> >
> > Gene
>
> I read through the whole thread and had to do a double take. Every
> single poster knew what they were talking about and every post
> contributed something. I need to double check what I'm drinking.
> I must be high on something.

<lol>

>
> I don't do steaks in the kitchen very often. My stove hood vent isn't
> powerful enough to carry off the smoke. And I find myself reluctant
> to get a grill pan hot enough on my stovetop to get the job done right.
> I have an unjustified fear of damaging my cooktop with the heat reflected
> from a super hot grill or grillpan.

I have found that, if I use Grapeseed oil and get it hot hot hot in the
CI pan, I get a most excellent sear and since it has a higher smoke
point than Olive oil, it does a good job and the flavor is good. Peanut
oil is my second choice.

Neither one set off my smoke alarm and hood is NOT vented to the outside.
It's just a filter.

>
> Last week I got stingy with the fuel in my sportsman grill even though I
> knew better. I could hold my hand within about 2 inches of the grill, but
> went ahead and tried to cook steaks anyway. Needless to say, 7 minutes
> on a side is no way to cook a steak.

Ack!

>
> Last night I built a proper fire. I couldn't get my hand closer then about
> 8 inches from the grill. The steaks were perfect at 2 minutes per side.
> (1 inch NY steaks). Nice even sear, even close to a char on the ends and
> even 3/4" thick rare center.

Oh yum. Did you leave the fat edges on them? ;-d

>
> I had fuel in the firebox withing about 1 inch of the grill. There was some
> grease drip into the fire, but flareup was minimized by virtually
> vaporizing
> the grease as fast as it dripped. I did not have to move the meat or resort
> to spritzing the fire. I love it when a plan comes together.
>
> Sides were large baker potatoes roasted naked in a 400F oven with
> 20 p nails inserted in both ends with about 1-1/2" sticking out. Taters
> were cooked to 200F then wrapped in dish towels to mellow out while
> I got the table set up. Steamed green beans rounded out the plate with
> hot crusty Italian bread and whipped butter on the side.

Perfect! I wonder how many people use potato nails? I even use them if
I coal bake potatoes as that is how mom and dad taught me to do it. :-)
I had/have a most excellent pair of parents. (still have dad)
>
> Its hard to give enough credit to the flavor developed in the surface of
> a properly seared steak as opposed to a fully cooked but unseared
> steak. I personally like just the right amount of S&P seared right into
> the steak. I never use garlic or onion with such high heat.

Nope! Gets bitter. But Soy sauce works.

I did not let the oven heat enough last night so only got a good sear
around the edges of the steak.<sigh> And it was almost medium rare
after 5 minutes. I gotta refine my technique. Maybe turn it at 2
minutes and cook for 2 more under the elements.? I dunno. I'll probably
either go back to pan searing in the kitchen or depend on the contact
grill as it is always reliable, even with no temp. control.
--
Peace! Om

Web Albums: <http://picasaweb.google.com/OMPOmelet>
"We're all adults here, except for those of us who aren't." --Blake Murphy

In article >,
Gene > wrote:

> >> Wait till I hit him on my DVD idea!
> >
> >I can hardly wait!
>
> Me either

Be sure to keep us informed! I might want to buy one. <g>
>
>
> >>
> >> >Watch out tho' for using pure mesquite! I made that mistake once and
> >> >had to toss a piece of smoked brisket as it was way too bitter. I now
> >> >use more oak (since I have plenty of fallen branches at the moment) and
> >> >just add a small amount of mesquite to my oak coals.
> >>
> >> Thanks but I would never and have never used pure mesq. for brisket.
> >> It is a low slow cook and would/could turn the meat bitter. But for
> >> fast cooking like steaks it adds the smoke I like with out the bitter.
> >>
> >> You really got to try it some time for steaks. Burns very hot!
> >>
> >I currently have a large pile of it... :-)
>
> You are more than welcome to drive some over here. I will Q you a real
> "Gene" meal! Um, that might not have come out right :}~
>
> >>
> >> Gene

If I can ever take a real vacation again, Canada would be a good choice.
<g> Got reindeer steaks???
--
Peace! Om

Web Albums: <http://picasaweb.google.com/OMPOmelet>
"We're all adults here, except for those of us who aren't." --Blake Murphy

In article >,
Gene > wrote:

> snip
>
> >The science is with you on that one, Gene. I don't care about searing meat
> >on a grill, and I find it funny that our anal-retentive grinder monkey
> >constantly obsesses on it. If the meat surface hasn't caramelized enough, I
> >take a blow torch to my steak. Problem solved.
>
> I really love a good sear, but for the texture and flavor. Blow torch
> works for you? GOOD! My motto is "do what works". That motto applies
> to cooking, my Martial Arts, raising my kids, and my sex life. OK,
> that might have been TMI! LOL!
>
>
> Gene

If you apply yourself to bedroom gymnastics the way you do to your
cooking, your wife is one very lucky woman... <g>
--
Peace! Om

Web Albums: <http://picasaweb.google.com/OMPOmelet>
"We're all adults here, except for those of us who aren't." --Blake Murphy

In article >,
Gene > wrote:

> >I don't do steaks in the kitchen very often. My stove hood vent isn't
> >powerful enough to carry off the smoke. And I find myself reluctant
> >to get a grill pan hot enough on my stovetop to get the job done right.
> >I have an unjustified fear of damaging my cooktop with the heat reflected
> >from a super hot grill or grillpan.
>
> My hood fan is the same way. I disconnect the smoke detector and put a
> box fan in the window!

Try a different oil. My kitchen smoke alarm hardly ever gets set off
and I get a good pan sear. The toaster oven broiling nearly always sets
it off.
--
Peace! Om

Web Albums: <http://picasaweb.google.com/OMPOmelet>
"We're all adults here, except for those of us who aren't." --Blake Murphy

In article >,
Gene > wrote:

> >Dave prolly runs his blowtorch on CH3NO2.
>
> Nitromethane. Hmmmm....
>
> You know I am still wanting to try LOX as a fuel for grilling. And I
> don't mean the salmon.
>
> See http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TBLr_XrooLs
>
>
>
> Gene

I don't think melting the grill is the goal... <lol>
--
Peace! Om

Web Albums: <http://picasaweb.google.com/OMPOmelet>
"We're all adults here, except for those of us who aren't." --Blake Murphy

On Sat, 27 Mar 2010 00:00:50 -0600, Omelet >
wrote:

>In article >,
> Gene > wrote:
>
>> >> Wait till I hit him on my DVD idea!
>> >
>> >I can hardly wait!
>>
>> Me either
>
>Be sure to keep us informed! I might want to buy one. <g>

snip

Oh please. I would send you one for free. Blank DVD's can be had on
sale for $20 per 100. Once I "produce" the things, reproduction is a
snap.

The idea is that my butcher would be able to give them away free and
it would be great marketing for my bis.

Win/Win!

Gene


http://www.nowyourcooking.net/

"If people let government decide
what foods they eat and what medicines
they take, their bodies will soon be
in as sorry a state as are the souls of
those who live under tyranny"

"Thomas Jefferson"

On 27 Mar 2010 05:40:26 GMT, Nick Cramer >
wrote:

>Gene > wrote:
>> Nick Cramer > wrote:
>> [ . . . ]
>> >Dave prolly runs his blowtorch on CH3NO2.
>>
>> Nitromethane. Hmmmm....
>
>Another fuelly, eh?
>
>> You know I am still wanting to try LOX as a fuel for grilling. And I
>> don't mean the salmon.
>
>Hmmm. LOX/LH2 should get purty hot. "To the Moon, Alice!" LMFAO

Humana, humana. humana!

Bang zoom!

Gene


http://www.nowyourcooking.net/

"If people let government decide
what foods they eat and what medicines
they take, their bodies will soon be
in as sorry a state as are the souls of
those who live under tyranny"

"Thomas Jefferson"

On Sat, 27 Mar 2010 00:08:07 -0600, Omelet >
wrote:

>In article >,
> Gene > wrote:
>
>> >Dave prolly runs his blowtorch on CH3NO2.
>>
>> Nitromethane. Hmmmm....
>>
>> You know I am still wanting to try LOX as a fuel for grilling. And I
>> don't mean the salmon.
>>
>> See http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TBLr_XrooLs
>>
>>
>>
>> Gene
>
>I don't think melting the grill is the goal... <lol>

Amazing way to put an old grill to rest

Gene


http://www.nowyourcooking.net/

"If people let government decide
what foods they eat and what medicines
they take, their bodies will soon be
in as sorry a state as are the souls of
those who live under tyranny"

"Thomas Jefferson"

On Sat, 27 Mar 2010 00:02:20 -0600, Omelet >
wrote:

>In article >,
> Gene > wrote:
>
>> snip
>>
>> >The science is with you on that one, Gene. I don't care about searing meat
>> >on a grill, and I find it funny that our anal-retentive grinder monkey
>> >constantly obsesses on it. If the meat surface hasn't caramelized enough, I
>> >take a blow torch to my steak. Problem solved.
>>
>> I really love a good sear, but for the texture and flavor. Blow torch
>> works for you? GOOD! My motto is "do what works". That motto applies
>> to cooking, my Martial Arts, raising my kids, and my sex life. OK,
>> that might have been TMI! LOL!
>>
>>
>> Gene
>
>If you apply yourself to bedroom gymnastics the way you do to your
>cooking, your wife is one very lucky woman... <g>

My dear you tempt me to respond in such a way that a gentleman would
never. Let me just say that a good cook/chef has a good palate, tastes
everything as often as he can, and always ensures that the receiver of
his efforts is always more than satisfied, and left awaiting the next
course.



Damn, it sure is getting deep in here

Gene


http://www.nowyourcooking.net/

"If people let government decide
what foods they eat and what medicines
they take, their bodies will soon be
in as sorry a state as are the souls of
those who live under tyranny"

"Thomas Jefferson"

On Sat, 27 Mar 2010 00:04:27 -0600, Omelet >
wrote:

>In article >,
> Gene > wrote:
>
>> >I don't do steaks in the kitchen very often. My stove hood vent isn't
>> >powerful enough to carry off the smoke. And I find myself reluctant
>> >to get a grill pan hot enough on my stovetop to get the job done right.
>> >I have an unjustified fear of damaging my cooktop with the heat reflected
>> >from a super hot grill or grillpan.
>>
>> My hood fan is the same way. I disconnect the smoke detector and put a
>> box fan in the window!
>
>Try a different oil. My kitchen smoke alarm hardly ever gets set off
>and I get a good pan sear. The toaster oven broiling nearly always sets
>it off.

Peanut, canola, it does not matter. Small space, hot as hell pan. I
don't mind. Heheheh.

Gene


http://www.nowyourcooking.net/

"If people let government decide
what foods they eat and what medicines
they take, their bodies will soon be
in as sorry a state as are the souls of
those who live under tyranny"

"Thomas Jefferson"

In article >,
Gene > wrote:

> >Be sure to keep us informed! I might want to buy one. <g>
>
> snip
>
> Oh please. I would send you one for free. Blank DVD's can be had on
> sale for $20 per 100. Once I "produce" the things, reproduction is a
> snap.
>
> The idea is that my butcher would be able to give them away free and
> it would be great marketing for my bis.
>
> Win/Win!
>
> Gene
>
>
> http://www.nowyourcooking.net/

Not a bad idea for advertising!
I may have to consider that route myself once I finally have inventory.
--
Peace! Om

Web Albums: <http://picasaweb.google.com/OMPOmelet>
"We're all adults here, except for those of us who aren't." --Blake Murphy

In article >,
Gene > wrote:

> >> See http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TBLr_XrooLs
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Gene
> >
> >I don't think melting the grill is the goal... <lol>
>
> Amazing way to put an old grill to rest
>
> Gene
>
>
> http://www.nowyourcooking.net/

True! <g> And fun.
--
Peace! Om

Web Albums: <http://picasaweb.google.com/OMPOmelet>
"We're all adults here, except for those of us who aren't." --Blake Murphy

In article >,
Gene > wrote:

> >If you apply yourself to bedroom gymnastics the way you do to your
> >cooking, your wife is one very lucky woman... <g>
>
> My dear you tempt me to respond in such a way that a gentleman would
> never. Let me just say that a good cook/chef has a good palate, tastes
> everything as often as he can, and always ensures that the receiver of
> his efforts is always more than satisfied, and left awaiting the next
> course.
>
>
>
> Damn, it sure is getting deep in here
>
> Gene

ROFL!
Thanks for the early morning chuckle...
and well stated too! :-)
--
Peace! Om

Web Albums: <http://picasaweb.google.com/OMPOmelet>
"We're all adults here, except for those of us who aren't." --Blake Murphy

On Sat, 27 Mar 2010 02:55:12 -0600, Omelet >
wrote:

>In article >,
> Gene > wrote:
>
>> >Be sure to keep us informed! I might want to buy one. <g>
>>
>> snip
>>
>> Oh please. I would send you one for free. Blank DVD's can be had on
>> sale for $20 per 100. Once I "produce" the things, reproduction is a
>> snap.
>>
>> The idea is that my butcher would be able to give them away free and
>> it would be great marketing for my bis.
>>
>> Win/Win!
>>
>> Gene
>>
>>
>> http://www.nowyourcooking.net/
>
>Not a bad idea for advertising!
>I may have to consider that route myself once I finally have inventory.

I'm focusing on selling my teaching skills, not a product yet.

I do not know what inventory you need to aquire, but I do know that
you know how to cook and would be a very good teacher of cooking.

Yes, I never tasted anything you made, but I DO understand based on
all the things you have described and the pictures I have seen.

You CAN cook!

Gene


http://www.nowyourcooking.net/

"If people let government decide
what foods they eat and what medicines
they take, their bodies will soon be
in as sorry a state as are the souls of
those who live under tyranny"

"Thomas Jefferson"

In article >,
Gene > wrote:

> On Sat, 27 Mar 2010 00:04:27 -0600, Omelet >
> wrote:
>
> >In article >,
> > Gene > wrote:
> >
> >> >I don't do steaks in the kitchen very often. My stove hood vent isn't
> >> >powerful enough to carry off the smoke. And I find myself reluctant
> >> >to get a grill pan hot enough on my stovetop to get the job done right.
> >> >I have an unjustified fear of damaging my cooktop with the heat reflected
> >> >from a super hot grill or grillpan.
> >>
> >> My hood fan is the same way. I disconnect the smoke detector and put a
> >> box fan in the window!
> >
> >Try a different oil. My kitchen smoke alarm hardly ever gets set off
> >and I get a good pan sear. The toaster oven broiling nearly always sets
> >it off.
>
> Peanut, canola, it does not matter. Small space, hot as hell pan. I
> don't mind. Heheheh.
>
> Gene

Don't reject Grape Seed oil. :-) Different types of oil can make a
difference in final flavor too, but you already knew that!

I personally cannot stand Canola oil. <g>
--
Peace! Om

Web Albums: <http://picasaweb.google.com/OMPOmelet>
"We're all adults here, except for those of us who aren't." --Blake Murphy

On Sat, 27 Mar 2010 03:01:00 -0600, Omelet >
wrote:

>In article >,
> Gene > wrote:
>
>> >If you apply yourself to bedroom gymnastics the way you do to your
>> >cooking, your wife is one very lucky woman... <g>
>>
>> My dear you tempt me to respond in such a way that a gentleman would
>> never. Let me just say that a good cook/chef has a good palate, tastes
>> everything as often as he can, and always ensures that the receiver of
>> his efforts is always more than satisfied, and left awaiting the next
>> course.
>>
>>
>>
>> Damn, it sure is getting deep in here
>>
>> Gene
>
>ROFL!
>Thanks for the early morning chuckle...
>and well stated too! :-)

Sometimes I just can't help myself! LOL!!!!!

Gene


http://www.nowyourcooking.net/

"If people let government decide
what foods they eat and what medicines
they take, their bodies will soon be
in as sorry a state as are the souls of
those who live under tyranny"

"Thomas Jefferson"

snip
>
>Don't reject Grape Seed oil. :-) Different types of oil can make a
>difference in final flavor too, but you already knew that!
>
>I personally cannot stand Canola oil. <g>

Canola is one of two cultivars of rapeseed or Brassica campestris
(Brassica napus L. and B. campestris L.).[1] Their seeds are used to
produce edible oil that is fit for human consumption because it has
lower levels of erucic acid than traditional rapeseed oils and to
produce livestock feed because it has reduced levels of the toxic
glucosinolates.[2] Canola was originally naturally bred from rapeseed
in Canada by Keith Downey and Baldur R. Stefansson in the early
1970s,[3][4] but it has a very different nutritional profile in
addition to much less erucic acid.[5] The name "canola" was derived
from "Canadian oil, low acid" in 1978.[6][7] A product known as LEAR
(for low erucic acid rapeseed) derived from cross-breeding of multiple
lines of Brassica juncea is also referred to as canola oil and is
considered safe for consumption.[8]

Grape seed? Or Rape seed?

Grape seed oil is extracted from grape seeds and has a relatively high
smoke point, approximately 420 °F (216 °C), so it can be safely used
to cook at high temperature. Grape seed oil can be used for
stir-fries, sautéing and fondue. In addition to its high smoking
point, grape seed oil has other positive attributes in relation to
cooking. It has a clean, light taste that has been described as
'nutty'. Because of its 'neutral' taste, grape seed oil is often used
as an ingredient in salad dressings or as a base for infusing or
flavoring with garlic, rosemary, or other herbs or spices. It is also
used as an ingredient in homemade mayonnaise.

Oh hell, I don't care for the tech of it. I do know that the fat in a
well marbled steak will produce smoke too. I think smoke detectors are
set to go off on a wift of smoke.

I DO reconnect the damn thing when I finish cooking.

Bacon grease is king

Nope, that last statement has NOTHING to do with this topic. I just
needed to say it

Gene


http://www.nowyourcooking.net/

"If people let government decide
what foods they eat and what medicines
they take, their bodies will soon be
in as sorry a state as are the souls of
those who live under tyranny"

"Thomas Jefferson"

In article >,
Gene > wrote:

> >Not a bad idea for advertising!
> >I may have to consider that route myself once I finally have inventory.
>
> I'm focusing on selling my teaching skills, not a product yet.
>
> I do not know what inventory you need to aquire, but I do know that
> you know how to cook and would be a very good teacher of cooking.

Thank you! :-) The product I'll be selling would do well if I were able
to give some instructional videos on how to use it. I'm planning on
contacting the publisher that publishes the best manuals on it and see
if I can get a seller price and minimum order quote.

It's a type of sports tape.

I will later set up a cooking website with links to kitchen gadget sales
tho' so I won't ignore this hobby completely. :-)

>
> Yes, I never tasted anything you made, but I DO understand based on
> all the things you have described and the pictures I have seen.
>
> You CAN cook!
>
> Gene

My friends and family think so, but I do deeply value and appreciate the
opinions of a pro' Chef.

Thank you! And I sincerely mean that...
--
Peace! Om

Web Albums: <http://picasaweb.google.com/OMPOmelet>
"We're all adults here, except for those of us who aren't." --Blake Murphy

snip
>Grape seed oil is extracted from grape seeds and has a relatively high
>smoke point, approximately 420 °F (216 °C), so it can be safely used
>to cook at high temperature.

snip

Forgot to mention, grape seend as mentioned above has a 420 degree F
smoke point. I sear at 700. I will get enough smoke to set off the
alarm.


But I CAN live with the smoke

Gene


http://www.nowyourcooking.net/

"If people let government decide
what foods they eat and what medicines
they take, their bodies will soon be
in as sorry a state as are the souls of
those who live under tyranny"

"Thomas Jefferson"

In article >,
Gene > wrote:

> Grape seed? Or Rape seed?

Grape seed. I can get it for slightly less than good olive oil at a
Greek store in Austin. :-)

>
> Grape seed oil is extracted from grape seeds and has a relatively high
> smoke point, approximately 420 °F (216 °C), so it can be safely used
> to cook at high temperature. Grape seed oil can be used for
> stir-fries, sautéing and fondue. In addition to its high smoking
> point, grape seed oil has other positive attributes in relation to
> cooking. It has a clean, light taste that has been described as
> 'nutty'. Because of its 'neutral' taste, grape seed oil is often used
> as an ingredient in salad dressings or as a base for infusing or
> flavoring with garlic, rosemary, or other herbs or spices. It is also
> used as an ingredient in homemade mayonnaise.
>
> Oh hell, I don't care for the tech of it. I do know that the fat in a
> well marbled steak will produce smoke too. I think smoke detectors are
> set to go off on a wift of smoke.
>
> I DO reconnect the damn thing when I finish cooking.
>
> Bacon grease is king

No arguments there. Great for fish, eggs and a few other things. I've
deep fried bacon in peanut oil in my fryer and ended up having to bail
my fryer so I ended up with a nice mix of bacon fat and peanut oil.

Fried catfish nuggets in that mix later on. It was the GODS!

>
> Nope, that last statement has NOTHING to do with this topic. I just
> needed to say it
>
> Gene

Thread drift. <g>

Om -> who is going back to bed...
--
Peace! Om

Web Albums: <http://picasaweb.google.com/OMPOmelet>
"We're all adults here, except for those of us who aren't." --Blake Murphy