Will a pork butt continue to cure if frozen before it has fully
cured?

Sounds silly, I know. Frozen water doesn't move. But this wasn't a
brine.

-sw

On Sat, 6 Mar 2010 11:18:58 -0600, Sqwertz wrote:

> Will a pork butt continue to cure if frozen before it has fully
> cured?
>
> Sounds silly, I know. Frozen water doesn't move. But this wasn't a
> brine.

It was a basic dry cure, BTW. Salt box method. I edited that part
out. Do dry cures rely on osmosis just as brines?

-sw

"Sqwertz" > wrote in message
...
> On Sat, 6 Mar 2010 11:18:58 -0600, Sqwertz wrote:
>
>> Will a pork butt continue to cure if frozen before it has fully
>> cured?
>>
>> Sounds silly, I know. Frozen water doesn't move. But this wasn't a
>> brine.
>
> It was a basic dry cure, BTW. Salt box method. I edited that part
> out. Do dry cures rely on osmosis just as brines?
>
> -sw

Yes, I'd imagine the curing would stop.

On Sat, 6 Mar 2010 17:17:56 -0500, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

> "Sqwertz" > wrote in message
> ...
>> On Sat, 6 Mar 2010 11:18:58 -0600, Sqwertz wrote:
>>
>>> Will a pork butt continue to cure if frozen before it has fully
>>> cured?
>>>
>>> Sounds silly, I know. Frozen water doesn't move. But this wasn't a
>>> brine.
>>
>> It was a basic dry cure, BTW. Salt box method. I edited that part
>> out. Do dry cures rely on osmosis just as brines?
>
> Yes, I'd imagine the curing would stop.

I was worried that the cure wouldn't have penetrated in only 3.5
days, but it had on the first butt, so the second one should be OK.

I've been using this same cure (fresh garlic and pink salt) on "pork
loin grilling strips". These are that strip of meat just outside
the eye of the loin next to the rib. They take these off in 12"-14"
strips when cutting down a loin into baby and boneless pork loins.
It's about 40% fat. These have come out excellent, so I decided to
try it on a bigger piece of meat.

It didn't turn out nearly as well. They "eye watering" taste is
just not there and the cheap pork butt taste is evident. Those
$1/lb pork butts sound like a great deal, and I always find myself
buying them, but I have been really disappointed int hem the last
couple years, even when I smoke them.

I just recently re-discovered CostCo pork butts and those will be
the only butts I buy anymore. They don't go on sale and cost
$1.70/lb, but they're a much better value. Especially considering
I've thrown away more pork butt than I've eaten in the last 2 years.
(Or I sometimes make the failures into a pork salad spread).

-sw

Sqwertz wrote:

> I was worried that the cure wouldn't have penetrated in only 3.5
> days, but it had on the first butt, so the second one should be OK.
>
> I've been using this same cure (fresh garlic and pink salt) on "pork
> loin grilling strips". These are that strip of meat just outside
> the eye of the loin next to the rib. They take these off in 12"-14"
> strips when cutting down a loin into baby and boneless pork loins.
> It's about 40% fat. These have come out excellent, so I decided to
> try it on a bigger piece of meat.
>
> It didn't turn out nearly as well. They "eye watering" taste is
> just not there and the cheap pork butt taste is evident. Those
> $1/lb pork butts sound like a great deal, and I always find myself
> buying them, but I have been really disappointed int hem the last
> couple years, even when I smoke them.
>
> I just recently re-discovered CostCo pork butts and those will be
> the only butts I buy anymore. They don't go on sale and cost
> $1.70/lb, but they're a much better value. Especially considering
> I've thrown away more pork butt than I've eaten in the last 2 years.
> (Or I sometimes make the failures into a pork salad spread).

I hear you. My response to the ever diminishing quality of
pork butt has been to use it for something like tasso, smoked or
unsmoked, which is very un-subtle in both flavor and texture and
therefore seems to work ok.

For most any other preparation I am now paying up to $2/lb.

Sucks.

--
Mort

On 3/6/2010 12:18 PM, Sqwertz wrote:
> Will a pork butt continue to cure if frozen before it has fully
> cured?
>
> Sounds silly, I know. Frozen water doesn't move. But this wasn't a
> brine.
>
> -sw
I have bbq meats with a hickory smoke become more 'penetrated' with
smoke flavor even in the freezer.

--
regards, mike
piedmont, The Practical BBQ'r
http://sites.google.com/site/thepracticalbbqr/
(mawil55)

So why do you guys think that the quality of pork but flavor is
deteriorating?

Is it the actual meat source, a feed change, meat handling or
something else?

Something seems to be going on with brisket, too. The texture has
changed; with several hundred of them under my belt (literally!), I
have noticed a distinct change in the flat side after a long smoke.

I seems tougher. I tried finishing up and down from my normal 195F
finish temp, and nothing seem to change the texture of the flat. For
me, the flat should be just barely able to hold together when cutting
slices. No crumbling, no breaking apart. Slices that are 1/4 - 3/8"
thick that are fork tender are perfect.

I had the last brisket on the pit until it reached 200F, and taking
about 12 hours to do so at 225 - 250F pit temp in my WSM. The one
before I cooked at 325 - 350F on my side box pit to 195. Neither were
satisfactory. The flat seems too fibrous and you need a knife to cut
the slices.

I have noticed this more and more over the past couple of years.

I won't cook a brisket until it can be pulled, nor will I foil, or
leave it in a cooler for several hours after it reaches temp. If I
want smoke flavored stew meat, I will make it in the crock pot.

Anyone have any idea on the pork or beef on what gives here?

Robert

wrote:

> So why do you guys think that the quality of pork but flavor is
> deteriorating?

I think at least part of what's happening is that the quality
is diminishing to match the low absolute price. Inflation continues
on, at whatever rate, and either prices have to rise or quality
has to drop.

Part of this is my own mental barrier pertaining to the 99c/lb
(or so) "cheap meat" price point. The best part of BBQ is having
the skill to take the cheapest of cuts and make them great through
sheer technique. But, what was once good at 99c became $1.49 which
is now slowly approaching $1.99.

--
Mort

In article >,
piedmont > wrote:

> On 3/6/2010 12:18 PM, Sqwertz wrote:
> > Will a pork butt continue to cure if frozen before it has fully
> > cured?
> >
> > Sounds silly, I know. Frozen water doesn't move. But this wasn't a
> > brine.
> >
> > -sw
> I have bbq meats with a hickory smoke become more 'penetrated' with
> smoke flavor even in the freezer.

I would suspect so. Freezing only slows down reactions. It does not stop
them.
--
Peace! Om

"Human nature seems to be to control other people until they put their foot down."
--Steve Rothstein

Web Albums: <http://picasaweb.google.com/OMPOmelet>

Subscribe:

In article
>,
" > wrote:

> So why do you guys think that the quality of pork but flavor is
> deteriorating?
>
> Is it the actual meat source, a feed change, meat handling or
> something else?
>
> Something seems to be going on with brisket, too. The texture has
> changed; with several hundred of them under my belt (literally!), I
> have noticed a distinct change in the flat side after a long smoke.
>
> I seems tougher. I tried finishing up and down from my normal 195F
> finish temp, and nothing seem to change the texture of the flat. For
> me, the flat should be just barely able to hold together when cutting
> slices. No crumbling, no breaking apart. Slices that are 1/4 - 3/8"
> thick that are fork tender are perfect.
>
> I had the last brisket on the pit until it reached 200F, and taking
> about 12 hours to do so at 225 - 250F pit temp in my WSM. The one
> before I cooked at 325 - 350F on my side box pit to 195. Neither were
> satisfactory. The flat seems too fibrous and you need a knife to cut
> the slices.
>
> I have noticed this more and more over the past couple of years.
>
> I won't cook a brisket until it can be pulled, nor will I foil, or
> leave it in a cooler for several hours after it reaches temp. If I
> want smoke flavored stew meat, I will make it in the crock pot.
>
> Anyone have any idea on the pork or beef on what gives here?
>
> Robert

Yes.

Farmers are trying to breed animals to be lower in fat due to the
mistaken idea that fat is bad for you.
--
Peace! Om

"Human nature seems to be to control other people until they put their foot down."
--Steve Rothstein

Web Albums: <http://picasaweb.google.com/OMPOmelet>

Subscribe:

On 3/7/2010 1:39 PM, wrote:
> So why do you guys think that the quality of pork but flavor is
> deteriorating?
>
> Is it the actual meat source, a feed change, meat handling or
> something else?
>
> Something seems to be going on with brisket, too. The texture has
> changed; with several hundred of them under my belt (literally!), I
> have noticed a distinct change in the flat side after a long smoke.
>
> I seems tougher. I tried finishing up and down from my normal 195F
> finish temp, and nothing seem to change the texture of the flat. For
> me, the flat should be just barely able to hold together when cutting
> slices. No crumbling, no breaking apart. Slices that are 1/4 - 3/8"
> thick that are fork tender are perfect.
>
> I had the last brisket on the pit until it reached 200F, and taking
> about 12 hours to do so at 225 - 250F pit temp in my WSM. The one
> before I cooked at 325 - 350F on my side box pit to 195. Neither were
> satisfactory. The flat seems too fibrous and you need a knife to cut
> the slices.
>
> I have noticed this more and more over the past couple of years.
>
> I won't cook a brisket until it can be pulled, nor will I foil, or
> leave it in a cooler for several hours after it reaches temp. If I
> want smoke flavored stew meat, I will make it in the crock pot.
>
> Anyone have any idea on the pork or beef on what gives here?
>
> Robert
Where do you buy them, are they packer cut?

--
regards, mike
piedmont, The Practical BBQ'r
http://sites.google.com/site/thepracticalbbqr/
(mawil55)

On 3/8/2010 3:14 PM, Nunya Bidnits wrote:
> Mort said:
>> wrote:
>>
>>> So why do you guys think that the quality of pork but flavor is
>>> deteriorating?
>>
>> I think at least part of what's happening is that the quality
>> is diminishing to match the low absolute price. Inflation continues
>> on, at whatever rate, and either prices have to rise or quality
>> has to drop.
>>
>> Part of this is my own mental barrier pertaining to the 99c/lb
>> (or so) "cheap meat" price point. The best part of BBQ is having
>> the skill to take the cheapest of cuts and make them great through
>> sheer technique. But, what was once good at 99c became $1.49 which
>> is now slowly approaching $1.99.
>
> That is so true. It pretty much has to be either Certified Angus Beef or
> choice grade anymore, (haven't tried any other brand of breed specific beef)
> especially for competition. We even see people buying $100 Waygu briskets
> for competition, but that just seems crazy. A good CAB brisket will be well
> marbled, and have an especially flavorful point, but it's around $2 lb, and
> that's at semi-wholesale at Restaurant Depot. You can't get that in the $1
> to $1.50 range around here.
>
> I'm curious as to what others are using, and how you are prepping the
> brisket.
>
> Assuming most of us are buying packer cut, whole brisket, are you going for
> the larger briskets or the smaller ones? How do you adjust for larger sizes,
> esp. thickness, relative to temperature and time?
>
> Are you separating your point and flat before cooking, and how agressively
> do you trim the fat cap?
>
> I'm usually separating the point, and trimming the fat cap down to about
> 3/8" or so. I've tried for smaller, briskets but thick for their size, where
> the flat still has respectable thickness at the thin end.
>
> MartyB in KC
>
I have always bought packer cuts at walmart, only place i can find, it
trim the outside to 1/4 inch and trim out the 'pocket' of fat in the one
side. Usually I soak in mop and sometimes also inject, let sit for two
days then cook.

--
regards, mike
piedmont, The Practical BBQ'r
http://sites.google.com/site/thepracticalbbqr/
(mawil55)