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Barbecue (alt.food.barbecue) Discuss barbecue and grilling--southern style "low and slow" smoking of ribs, shoulders and briskets, as well as direct heat grilling of everything from burgers to salmon to vegetables. |
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Fermented Sausages
Good news, to me at least. There's a book out on Dry Cured and
Fermented Sausages that looks like it might be a winner. The Art of Making Fermented Sausages <http://www.amazon.com/dp/0982426712/ref=pe_606_14001560_pe_ar_t1> I've always liked the Kutas book, and others on the subject, but they fall completely short on the subject of fermented products. I think this book might fill that niche. Hopefully some of the recipes will give my cold smoker something to do this winter. -- Mort |
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Fermented Sausages
"Mort" > wrote in message
... > Good news, to me at least. There's a book out on Dry Cured and > Fermented Sausages that looks like it might be a winner. > > The Art of Making Fermented Sausages > <http://www.amazon.com/dp/0982426712/ref=pe_606_14001560_pe_ar_t1> > > I've always liked the Kutas book, and others on the subject, > but they fall completely short on the subject of fermented > products. I think this book might fill that niche. Hopefully > some of the recipes will give my cold smoker something to do > this winter. > > -- > Mort Hi Mort, I read the description of the book and it sounds interesting, whats th deal about salami they mentioned and it being fermented, I never heard of thif fermanted thing with sausage, give us some insight. piedmont |
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Fermented Sausages
"Mort" > wrote in message
... > Good news, to me at least. There's a book out on Dry Cured and > Fermented Sausages that looks like it might be a winner. > > The Art of Making Fermented Sausages > <http://www.amazon.com/dp/0982426712/ref=pe_606_14001560_pe_ar_t1> > > I've always liked the Kutas book, and others on the subject, > but they fall completely short on the subject of fermented > products. I think this book might fill that niche. Hopefully > some of the recipes will give my cold smoker something to do > this winter. > > -- > Mort Hi Mort, I read the description of the book and it sounds interesting, whats th deal about salami they mentioned and it being fermented, I never heard of thif fermanted thing with sausage, give us some insight. piedmont |
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Fermented Sausages
piedmont wrote:
> "Mort" > wrote in message > ... > >> Good news, to me at least. There's a book out on Dry Cured and >> Fermented Sausages that looks like it might be a winner. >> >> The Art of Making Fermented Sausages >> <http://www.amazon.com/dp/0982426712/ref=pe_606_14001560_pe_ar_t1> >> >> I've always liked the Kutas book, and others on the subject, >> but they fall completely short on the subject of fermented >> products. I think this book might fill that niche. Hopefully >> some of the recipes will give my cold smoker something to do >> this winter. >> > > Hi Mort, > I read the description of the book and it sounds interesting, whats th > deal about salami they mentioned and it being fermented, I never heard > of thif fermanted thing with sausage, give us some insight. > piedmont There's two main types of the dried sausage products. One is dried (or semi-dried), but not fermented. The other is dried as well as fermented. The dried products are stuffed as usual, then allowed to slowly dry in a controlled environment. The end product is shelf stable and theoretically doesn't require refrigeration, though I typically do keep most of them in a cooler of some sort. It depends on the degree of drying, which varies. Fermented products also have a starter culture added during mixing. The starter culture adds an organism that grows in the initial drying phase and gives the product a slight tang (it raises the acidity like any fermented product). The higher acidity also contributes to the anti microbial effect. These products are truly shelf stable and can be kept at room temperature indefinitely. Not only that, they're incredibly good. Ever try a really high quality dried salami or pepperoni? They're a work of art. When you add to that a cold smoking step at the end, it turns into one the best foods in the world. Here's one of the few good online sources with in-depth info on making fermented and dry cured products. He's got all kinds of different recipes on sausage making. Len Poli's Site http://home.pacbell.net/lpoli/ More than just sausage recipes there, too. Also whole muscle meat products like cappacolla and breseola. Here's a source for starter cultures: Allied Kenco Cultures <http://www.alliedkenco.com/catalog/advanced_search_result.php?keywords=culture&osCsid =undefined> There's only one other book (besides the above one) I've been able to find with good coverage of the dry curing and fermenting process. Cooking by Hand <http://www.amazon.com/Cooking-Hand-Paul-Bertolli/dp/0609608932/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1263838237&sr=1-1> -- Mort |
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Fermented Sausages
"Mort" > wrote in message
... > piedmont wrote: > >> "Mort" > wrote in message >> ... >> >>> Good news, to me at least. There's a book out on Dry Cured and >>> Fermented Sausages that looks like it might be a winner. >>> >>> The Art of Making Fermented Sausages >>> <http://www.amazon.com/dp/0982426712/ref=pe_606_14001560_pe_ar_t1> >>> >>> I've always liked the Kutas book, and others on the subject, >>> but they fall completely short on the subject of fermented >>> products. I think this book might fill that niche. Hopefully >>> some of the recipes will give my cold smoker something to do >>> this winter. >>> >> >> Hi Mort, >> I read the description of the book and it sounds interesting, whats th >> deal about salami they mentioned and it being fermented, I never heard of >> thif fermanted thing with sausage, give us some insight. >> piedmont > > There's two main types of the dried sausage products. > > One is dried (or semi-dried), but not fermented. > > The other is dried as well as fermented. > > The dried products are stuffed as usual, then allowed to > slowly dry in a controlled environment. The end product > is shelf stable and theoretically doesn't require refrigeration, > though I typically do keep most of them in a cooler of some > sort. It depends on the degree of drying, which varies. > > Fermented products also have a starter culture added during mixing. > The starter culture adds an organism that grows in the initial > drying phase and gives the product a slight tang (it raises the > acidity like any fermented product). The higher acidity also > contributes to the anti microbial effect. These products are > truly shelf stable and can be kept at room temperature > indefinitely. > > Not only that, they're incredibly good. Ever try a really high > quality dried salami or pepperoni? They're a work of art. > When you add to that a cold smoking step at the end, it > turns into one the best foods in the world. > > Here's one of the few good online sources with in-depth info on > making fermented and dry cured products. He's got all kinds of > different recipes on sausage making. > > Len Poli's Site > http://home.pacbell.net/lpoli/ > > More than just sausage recipes there, too. Also whole muscle meat > products like cappacolla and breseola. > > Here's a source for starter cultures: > > Allied Kenco Cultures > <http://www.alliedkenco.com/catalog/advanced_search_result.php?keywords=culture&osCsid =undefined> > > There's only one other book (besides the above one) I've been > able to find with good coverage of the dry curing and fermenting > process. > > Cooking by Hand > <http://www.amazon.com/Cooking-Hand-Paul-Bertolli/dp/0609608932/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1263838237&sr=1-1> > > -- > Mort Mort, Very interesting, much to look over, and I doubt I've ever in my life had any good quality salami or pepperoni buying the typical crap in grocery. But I think I may make a search in Charlotte for a 'real' sausage maker. Thanks! piedmont |
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Fermented Sausages
On Jan 18, 12:41*pm, "piedmont" > wrote:
> > Hi Mort, > I read the description of the book and it sounds interesting, whats th deal > about salami they mentioned and it being fermented, I never heard of thif > fermanted thing with sausage, give us some insight. > piedmont Ever has summer sausage? It is fermented. Whenever I'm passing through Elmira Ontario I stop and get some from a Mennonite farmer. It's awesome stuff. Cam |
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Fermented Sausages
On Mon, 18 Jan 2010 12:08:03 -0800 (PST), Cam wrote:
> On Jan 18, 12:41*pm, "piedmont" > wrote: >> >> Hi Mort, >> I read the description of the book and it sounds interesting, whats th deal >> about salami they mentioned and it being fermented, I never heard of thif >> fermanted thing with sausage, give us some insight. >> piedmont > > Ever has summer sausage? It is fermented. Whenever I'm passing through > Elmira Ontario I stop and get some from a Mennonite farmer. It's > awesome stuff. Most summer sausage I've had isn't fermented. Nor dry. But there are fermented sausages that are not dry or shelf-stable (Lebanon bolgna, for example). Which is a good question: Some of the mass-produced summer sausages are neither dry, but are shelf-stable (when vac-packed). What category do these fit into? But the better summer sausages are always refrigerated. Unlike Hickory Farms. -sw |
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Fermented Sausages
On Mon, 18 Jan 2010 15:12:00 -0600, Sqwertz wrote:
> Which is a good question: Some of the mass-produced summer sausages > are neither dry, but are shelf-stable (when vac-packed). What > category do these fit into? I just looked them up and they claim to be dry fermented sausages. They don't taste fermented and they sure aren't very dry to me. <shrug> -sw |
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Fermented Sausages
Sqwertz wrote:
> On Mon, 18 Jan 2010 15:12:00 -0600, Sqwertz wrote: > > >>Which is a good question: Some of the mass-produced summer sausages >>are neither dry, but are shelf-stable (when vac-packed). What >>category do these fit into? > > > I just looked them up and they claim to be dry fermented sausages. > > They don't taste fermented and they sure aren't very dry to me. > > <shrug> No you're right. Some commercial versions claim to be (and no doubt are) fully shelf stable, but the classic semi-dried homemade version doesn't keep as well as a fully dried product. There are degrees of drying. Here'a another guy who knows his stuff. He gives a definitive answer: http://schmidling.com/saus.htm If you're into cheesemaking you should check that part of his site too. -- Mort |
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Fermented Sausages
"piedmont" > wrote in message ... > "Mort" > wrote in message > ... >> piedmont wrote: >> >>> "Mort" > wrote in message >>> ... >>> >>>> Good news, to me at least. There's a book out on Dry Cured and >>>> Fermented Sausages that looks like it might be a winner. >>>> >>>> The Art of Making Fermented Sausages >>>> <http://www.amazon.com/dp/0982426712/ref=pe_606_14001560_pe_ar_t1> >>>> >>>> I've always liked the Kutas book, and others on the subject, >>>> but they fall completely short on the subject of fermented >>>> products. I think this book might fill that niche. Hopefully >>>> some of the recipes will give my cold smoker something to do >>>> this winter. >>>> >>> >>> Hi Mort, >>> I read the description of the book and it sounds interesting, whats th >>> deal about salami they mentioned and it being fermented, I never heard >>> of thif fermanted thing with sausage, give us some insight. >>> piedmont >> >> There's two main types of the dried sausage products. >> >> One is dried (or semi-dried), but not fermented. >> >> The other is dried as well as fermented. >> >> The dried products are stuffed as usual, then allowed to >> slowly dry in a controlled environment. The end product >> is shelf stable and theoretically doesn't require refrigeration, >> though I typically do keep most of them in a cooler of some >> sort. It depends on the degree of drying, which varies. >> >> Fermented products also have a starter culture added during mixing. >> The starter culture adds an organism that grows in the initial >> drying phase and gives the product a slight tang (it raises the >> acidity like any fermented product). The higher acidity also >> contributes to the anti microbial effect. These products are >> truly shelf stable and can be kept at room temperature >> indefinitely. >> >> Not only that, they're incredibly good. Ever try a really high >> quality dried salami or pepperoni? They're a work of art. >> When you add to that a cold smoking step at the end, it >> turns into one the best foods in the world. >> >> Here's one of the few good online sources with in-depth info on >> making fermented and dry cured products. He's got all kinds of >> different recipes on sausage making. >> >> Len Poli's Site >> http://home.pacbell.net/lpoli/ >> >> More than just sausage recipes there, too. Also whole muscle meat >> products like cappacolla and breseola. >> >> Here's a source for starter cultures: >> >> Allied Kenco Cultures >> <http://www.alliedkenco.com/catalog/advanced_search_result.php?keywords=culture&osCsid =undefined> >> >> There's only one other book (besides the above one) I've been >> able to find with good coverage of the dry curing and fermenting >> process. >> >> Cooking by Hand >> <http://www.amazon.com/Cooking-Hand-Paul-Bertolli/dp/0609608932/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1263838237&sr=1-1> >> >> -- >> Mort > > > Mort, > Very interesting, much to look over, and I doubt I've ever in my life had > any good quality salami or pepperoni buying the typical crap in grocery. > But I think I may make a search in Charlotte for a 'real' sausage maker. > Thanks! piedmont > You can buy Paul Bertolli's fermented sausages at: http://www.framani.com/our_craft . He is a former chef at Chez Panisse, in Berkeley, and coauthor with Alice Waters of one of her books. He then was executive chef at Olivettos in Oakland before plunging into sausage making. Here's a review of his company on Yelp. http://www.yelp.com/biz/fra-mani-han...alumi-berkeley . One of these days when I have a spare $100 I'm going to splurge and buy one. Kent |
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Fermented Sausages
Kent wrote:
> You can buy Paul Bertolli's fermented sausages at: > http://www.framani.com/our_craft . He is a former chef at Chez Panisse, in > Berkeley, and coauthor with Alice Waters of one of her books. He then was > executive chef at Olivettos in Oakland before plunging into sausage making. > Here's a review of his company on Yelp. > http://www.yelp.com/biz/fra-mani-han...alumi-berkeley . One of these > days when I have a spare $100 I'm going to splurge and buy one. Please do try them and report back. I've had friends raves about Olivetto's meats so I expect it would be a favorable report. I'd take the word of an afb'er over stuff I read on yelp anyday. Don't ask me how I know this. -- Mort |
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Fermented Sausages
piedmont wrote:
> "Mort" > wrote in message > ... > >> Good news, to me at least. There's a book out on Dry Cured and >> Fermented Sausages that looks like it might be a winner. >> >> The Art of Making Fermented Sausages >> <http://www.amazon.com/dp/0982426712/ref=pe_606_14001560_pe_ar_t1> >> >> I've always liked the Kutas book, and others on the subject, >> but they fall completely short on the subject of fermented >> products. I think this book might fill that niche. Hopefully >> some of the recipes will give my cold smoker something to do >> this winter. > > > Hi Mort, > I read the description of the book and it sounds interesting, whats th > deal about salami they mentioned and it being fermented, I never heard > of thif fermanted thing with sausage, give us some insight. > piedmont Some salamis are fermented and some are not. Different recipes, much having to do with regional variations, etc. Take a look at Len's dry cured recipes. It's pretty educational read. He's also very true to the authentic formulations, though some of his recipes are brought up to date with more modern (and safer) preparation techniques. His dry cured recipes are light years ahead of what's in the famous Kutas book. <http://lpoli.50webs.com/Sausage%20recipes.htm#DRY> -- Mort |
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Fermented Sausages
"Mort" > wrote in message ... > Kent wrote: > >> You can buy Paul Bertolli's fermented sausages at: >> http://www.framani.com/our_craft . He is a former chef at Chez Panisse, >> in Berkeley, and coauthor with Alice Waters of one of her books. He then >> was executive chef at Olivettos in Oakland before plunging into sausage >> making. Here's a review of his company on Yelp. >> http://www.yelp.com/biz/fra-mani-han...alumi-berkeley . One of >> these days when I have a spare $100 I'm going to splurge and buy one. > > Please do try them and report back. I've had > friends raves about Olivetto's meats so I expect > it would be a favorable report. > > I'd take the word of an afb'er over stuff I read > on yelp anyday. > > Don't ask me how I know this. > > -- > Mort > > We've eaten a number of times at Olivettos. It's excellent. |
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Fermented Sausages
Kent wrote:
> "Mort" > wrote in message > ... > >>Kent wrote: >> >> >>>You can buy Paul Bertolli's fermented sausages at: >>>http://www.framani.com/our_craft . He is a former chef at Chez Panisse, >>>in Berkeley, and coauthor with Alice Waters of one of her books. He then >>>was executive chef at Olivettos in Oakland before plunging into sausage >>>making. Here's a review of his company on Yelp. >>>http://www.yelp.com/biz/fra-mani-han...alumi-berkeley . One of >>>these days when I have a spare $100 I'm going to splurge and buy one. >> >>Please do try them and report back. I've had >>friends raves about Olivetto's meats so I expect >>it would be a favorable report. >> >>I'd take the word of an afb'er over stuff I read >>on yelp anyday. >> >>Don't ask me how I know this. >> >>-- >>Mort >> >> > > We've eaten a number of times at Olivettos. It's excellent. > > > Bertolli is one of my food heroes. I have to try Framani soon. -- Mort |
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Fermented Sausages
"Mort" > wrote in message ... > Kent wrote: > >> "Mort" > wrote in message >> ... >> >>>Kent wrote: >>> >>> >>>>You can buy Paul Bertolli's fermented sausages at: >>>>http://www.framani.com/our_craft . He is a former chef at Chez Panisse, >>>>in Berkeley, and coauthor with Alice Waters of one of her books. He then >>>>was executive chef at Olivettos in Oakland before plunging into sausage >>>>making. Here's a review of his company on Yelp. >>>>http://www.yelp.com/biz/fra-mani-han...alumi-berkeley . One of >>>>these days when I have a spare $100 I'm going to splurge and buy one. >>> >>>Please do try them and report back. I've had >>>friends raves about Olivetto's meats so I expect >>>it would be a favorable report. >>> >>>I'd take the word of an afb'er over stuff I read >>>on yelp anyday. >>> >>>Don't ask me how I know this. >>> >>>-- >>>Mort >>> >>> >> >> We've eaten a number of times at Olivettos. It's excellent. >> >> >> > > Bertolli is one of my food heroes. I have to try > Framani soon. > > -- > Mort > > We've met him. He used to graciously wander the dining room and say hello to diners. He's a real gentleman, in addition to his dedication and talent. Alice Waters, from Chez Panisse, who originally took him on as a chef, is very gracious when met in person. She once told me where to buy charcoal when I wandered in and asked. It's nice to know that lurking behind the written prose is someone with genuine human qualities, someone you'd like to know better. Kent |
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Fermented Sausages
On Jan 19, 4:38*pm, "Kent" > wrote:
> > Alice Waters, from Chez Panisse, who originally took him on as a chef, is > very gracious when met in person. She once told me where to buy charcoal > when I wandered in and asked. Priceless! You can't buy this sort of entertainment. |
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