Barbecue (alt.food.barbecue) Discuss barbecue and grilling--southern style "low and slow" smoking of ribs, shoulders and briskets, as well as direct heat grilling of everything from burgers to salmon to vegetables.

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Old 17-01-2010, 11:24 PM posted to alt.food.barbecue
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Default Fermented Sausages

Good news, to me at least. There's a book out on Dry Cured and
Fermented Sausages that looks like it might be a winner.

The Art of Making Fermented Sausages
http://www.amazon.com/dp/0982426712/ref=pe_606_14001560_pe_ar_t1

I've always liked the Kutas book, and others on the subject,
but they fall completely short on the subject of fermented
products. I think this book might fill that niche. Hopefully
some of the recipes will give my cold smoker something to do
this winter.

--
Mort

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Old 18-01-2010, 06:41 PM posted to alt.food.barbecue
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Default Fermented Sausages

"Mort" wrote in message
...
Good news, to me at least. There's a book out on Dry Cured and
Fermented Sausages that looks like it might be a winner.

The Art of Making Fermented Sausages
http://www.amazon.com/dp/0982426712/ref=pe_606_14001560_pe_ar_t1

I've always liked the Kutas book, and others on the subject,
but they fall completely short on the subject of fermented
products. I think this book might fill that niche. Hopefully
some of the recipes will give my cold smoker something to do
this winter.

--
Mort


Hi Mort,
I read the description of the book and it sounds interesting, whats th deal
about salami they mentioned and it being fermented, I never heard of thif
fermanted thing with sausage, give us some insight.
piedmont

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Old 18-01-2010, 06:41 PM posted to alt.food.barbecue
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Default Fermented Sausages

"Mort" wrote in message
...
Good news, to me at least. There's a book out on Dry Cured and
Fermented Sausages that looks like it might be a winner.

The Art of Making Fermented Sausages
http://www.amazon.com/dp/0982426712/ref=pe_606_14001560_pe_ar_t1

I've always liked the Kutas book, and others on the subject,
but they fall completely short on the subject of fermented
products. I think this book might fill that niche. Hopefully
some of the recipes will give my cold smoker something to do
this winter.

--
Mort


Hi Mort,
I read the description of the book and it sounds interesting, whats th deal
about salami they mentioned and it being fermented, I never heard of thif
fermanted thing with sausage, give us some insight.
piedmont

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Old 18-01-2010, 07:26 PM posted to alt.food.barbecue
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Default Fermented Sausages

piedmont wrote:

"Mort" wrote in message
...

Good news, to me at least. There's a book out on Dry Cured and
Fermented Sausages that looks like it might be a winner.

The Art of Making Fermented Sausages
http://www.amazon.com/dp/0982426712/ref=pe_606_14001560_pe_ar_t1

I've always liked the Kutas book, and others on the subject,
but they fall completely short on the subject of fermented
products. I think this book might fill that niche. Hopefully
some of the recipes will give my cold smoker something to do
this winter.


Hi Mort,
I read the description of the book and it sounds interesting, whats th
deal about salami they mentioned and it being fermented, I never heard
of thif fermanted thing with sausage, give us some insight.
piedmont


There's two main types of the dried sausage products.

One is dried (or semi-dried), but not fermented.

The other is dried as well as fermented.

The dried products are stuffed as usual, then allowed to
slowly dry in a controlled environment. The end product
is shelf stable and theoretically doesn't require refrigeration,
though I typically do keep most of them in a cooler of some
sort. It depends on the degree of drying, which varies.

Fermented products also have a starter culture added during mixing.
The starter culture adds an organism that grows in the initial
drying phase and gives the product a slight tang (it raises the
acidity like any fermented product). The higher acidity also
contributes to the anti microbial effect. These products are
truly shelf stable and can be kept at room temperature
indefinitely.

Not only that, they're incredibly good. Ever try a really high
quality dried salami or pepperoni? They're a work of art.
When you add to that a cold smoking step at the end, it
turns into one the best foods in the world.

Here's one of the few good online sources with in-depth info on
making fermented and dry cured products. He's got all kinds of
different recipes on sausage making.

Len Poli's Site
http://home.pacbell.net/lpoli/

More than just sausage recipes there, too. Also whole muscle meat
products like cappacolla and breseola.

Here's a source for starter cultures:

Allied Kenco Cultures
http://www.alliedkenco.com/catalog/advanced_search_result.php?keywords=culture&osCsid =undefined

There's only one other book (besides the above one) I've been
able to find with good coverage of the dry curing and fermenting
process.

Cooking by Hand
http://www.amazon.com/Cooking-Hand-Paul-Bertolli/dp/0609608932/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1263838237&sr=1-1

--
Mort
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Old 18-01-2010, 07:35 PM posted to alt.food.barbecue
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Default Fermented Sausages

"Mort" wrote in message
...
piedmont wrote:

"Mort" wrote in message
...

Good news, to me at least. There's a book out on Dry Cured and
Fermented Sausages that looks like it might be a winner.

The Art of Making Fermented Sausages
http://www.amazon.com/dp/0982426712/ref=pe_606_14001560_pe_ar_t1

I've always liked the Kutas book, and others on the subject,
but they fall completely short on the subject of fermented
products. I think this book might fill that niche. Hopefully
some of the recipes will give my cold smoker something to do
this winter.


Hi Mort,
I read the description of the book and it sounds interesting, whats th
deal about salami they mentioned and it being fermented, I never heard of
thif fermanted thing with sausage, give us some insight.
piedmont


There's two main types of the dried sausage products.

One is dried (or semi-dried), but not fermented.

The other is dried as well as fermented.

The dried products are stuffed as usual, then allowed to
slowly dry in a controlled environment. The end product
is shelf stable and theoretically doesn't require refrigeration,
though I typically do keep most of them in a cooler of some
sort. It depends on the degree of drying, which varies.

Fermented products also have a starter culture added during mixing.
The starter culture adds an organism that grows in the initial
drying phase and gives the product a slight tang (it raises the
acidity like any fermented product). The higher acidity also
contributes to the anti microbial effect. These products are
truly shelf stable and can be kept at room temperature
indefinitely.

Not only that, they're incredibly good. Ever try a really high
quality dried salami or pepperoni? They're a work of art.
When you add to that a cold smoking step at the end, it
turns into one the best foods in the world.

Here's one of the few good online sources with in-depth info on
making fermented and dry cured products. He's got all kinds of
different recipes on sausage making.

Len Poli's Site
http://home.pacbell.net/lpoli/

More than just sausage recipes there, too. Also whole muscle meat
products like cappacolla and breseola.

Here's a source for starter cultures:

Allied Kenco Cultures
http://www.alliedkenco.com/catalog/advanced_search_result.php?keywords=culture&osCsid =undefined

There's only one other book (besides the above one) I've been
able to find with good coverage of the dry curing and fermenting
process.

Cooking by Hand
http://www.amazon.com/Cooking-Hand-Paul-Bertolli/dp/0609608932/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1263838237&sr=1-1

--
Mort



Mort,
Very interesting, much to look over, and I doubt I've ever in my life had
any good quality salami or pepperoni buying the typical crap in grocery. But
I think I may make a search in Charlotte for a 'real' sausage maker.
Thanks! piedmont



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Old 18-01-2010, 09:08 PM posted to alt.food.barbecue
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Default Fermented Sausages

On Jan 18, 12:41*pm, "piedmont" wrote:

Hi Mort,
I read the description of the book and it sounds interesting, whats th deal
about salami they mentioned and it being fermented, I never heard of thif
fermanted thing with sausage, give us some insight.
piedmont


Ever has summer sausage? It is fermented. Whenever I'm passing through
Elmira Ontario I stop and get some from a Mennonite farmer. It's
awesome stuff.

Cam

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Old 18-01-2010, 10:12 PM posted to alt.food.barbecue
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Default Fermented Sausages

On Mon, 18 Jan 2010 12:08:03 -0800 (PST), Cam wrote:

On Jan 18, 12:41*pm, "piedmont" wrote:

Hi Mort,
I read the description of the book and it sounds interesting, whats th deal
about salami they mentioned and it being fermented, I never heard of thif
fermanted thing with sausage, give us some insight.
piedmont


Ever has summer sausage? It is fermented. Whenever I'm passing through
Elmira Ontario I stop and get some from a Mennonite farmer. It's
awesome stuff.


Most summer sausage I've had isn't fermented. Nor dry. But there
are fermented sausages that are not dry or shelf-stable (Lebanon
bolgna, for example).

Which is a good question: Some of the mass-produced summer sausages
are neither dry, but are shelf-stable (when vac-packed). What
category do these fit into?

But the better summer sausages are always refrigerated. Unlike
Hickory Farms.

-sw
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Old 18-01-2010, 11:44 PM posted to alt.food.barbecue
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Default Fermented Sausages

On Mon, 18 Jan 2010 15:12:00 -0600, Sqwertz wrote:

Which is a good question: Some of the mass-produced summer sausages
are neither dry, but are shelf-stable (when vac-packed). What
category do these fit into?


I just looked them up and they claim to be dry fermented sausages.

They don't taste fermented and they sure aren't very dry to me.

shrug

-sw
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Old 19-01-2010, 12:31 AM posted to alt.food.barbecue
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Default Fermented Sausages

Sqwertz wrote:

On Mon, 18 Jan 2010 15:12:00 -0600, Sqwertz wrote:


Which is a good question: Some of the mass-produced summer sausages
are neither dry, but are shelf-stable (when vac-packed). What
category do these fit into?



I just looked them up and they claim to be dry fermented sausages.

They don't taste fermented and they sure aren't very dry to me.

shrug



No you're right. Some commercial versions claim to be
(and no doubt are) fully shelf stable, but the classic
semi-dried homemade version doesn't keep as well as a fully
dried product. There are degrees of drying.

Here'a another guy who knows his stuff. He gives a
definitive answer:

http://schmidling.com/saus.htm

If you're into cheesemaking you should check that part of
his site too.

--
Mort

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Old 19-01-2010, 02:36 AM posted to alt.food.barbecue
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Default Fermented Sausages


"piedmont" wrote in message
...
"Mort" wrote in message
...
piedmont wrote:

"Mort" wrote in message
...

Good news, to me at least. There's a book out on Dry Cured and
Fermented Sausages that looks like it might be a winner.

The Art of Making Fermented Sausages
http://www.amazon.com/dp/0982426712/ref=pe_606_14001560_pe_ar_t1

I've always liked the Kutas book, and others on the subject,
but they fall completely short on the subject of fermented
products. I think this book might fill that niche. Hopefully
some of the recipes will give my cold smoker something to do
this winter.


Hi Mort,
I read the description of the book and it sounds interesting, whats th
deal about salami they mentioned and it being fermented, I never heard
of thif fermanted thing with sausage, give us some insight.
piedmont


There's two main types of the dried sausage products.

One is dried (or semi-dried), but not fermented.

The other is dried as well as fermented.

The dried products are stuffed as usual, then allowed to
slowly dry in a controlled environment. The end product
is shelf stable and theoretically doesn't require refrigeration,
though I typically do keep most of them in a cooler of some
sort. It depends on the degree of drying, which varies.

Fermented products also have a starter culture added during mixing.
The starter culture adds an organism that grows in the initial
drying phase and gives the product a slight tang (it raises the
acidity like any fermented product). The higher acidity also
contributes to the anti microbial effect. These products are
truly shelf stable and can be kept at room temperature
indefinitely.

Not only that, they're incredibly good. Ever try a really high
quality dried salami or pepperoni? They're a work of art.
When you add to that a cold smoking step at the end, it
turns into one the best foods in the world.

Here's one of the few good online sources with in-depth info on
making fermented and dry cured products. He's got all kinds of
different recipes on sausage making.

Len Poli's Site
http://home.pacbell.net/lpoli/

More than just sausage recipes there, too. Also whole muscle meat
products like cappacolla and breseola.

Here's a source for starter cultures:

Allied Kenco Cultures
http://www.alliedkenco.com/catalog/advanced_search_result.php?keywords=culture&osCsid =undefined

There's only one other book (besides the above one) I've been
able to find with good coverage of the dry curing and fermenting
process.

Cooking by Hand
http://www.amazon.com/Cooking-Hand-Paul-Bertolli/dp/0609608932/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1263838237&sr=1-1

--
Mort



Mort,
Very interesting, much to look over, and I doubt I've ever in my life had
any good quality salami or pepperoni buying the typical crap in grocery.
But I think I may make a search in Charlotte for a 'real' sausage maker.
Thanks! piedmont

You can buy Paul Bertolli's fermented sausages at:
http://www.framani.com/our_craft . He is a former chef at Chez Panisse, in
Berkeley, and coauthor with Alice Waters of one of her books. He then was
executive chef at Olivettos in Oakland before plunging into sausage making.
Here's a review of his company on Yelp.
http://www.yelp.com/biz/fra-mani-han...alumi-berkeley . One of these
days when I have a spare $100 I'm going to splurge and buy one.

Kent









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Old 19-01-2010, 02:43 AM posted to alt.food.barbecue
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Default Fermented Sausages

Kent wrote:

You can buy Paul Bertolli's fermented sausages at:
http://www.framani.com/our_craft . He is a former chef at Chez Panisse, in
Berkeley, and coauthor with Alice Waters of one of her books. He then was
executive chef at Olivettos in Oakland before plunging into sausage making.
Here's a review of his company on Yelp.
http://www.yelp.com/biz/fra-mani-han...alumi-berkeley . One of these
days when I have a spare $100 I'm going to splurge and buy one.


Please do try them and report back. I've had
friends raves about Olivetto's meats so I expect
it would be a favorable report.

I'd take the word of an afb'er over stuff I read
on yelp anyday.

Don't ask me how I know this.

--
Mort
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Old 19-01-2010, 02:54 AM posted to alt.food.barbecue
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Default Fermented Sausages

piedmont wrote:

"Mort" wrote in message
...

Good news, to me at least. There's a book out on Dry Cured and
Fermented Sausages that looks like it might be a winner.

The Art of Making Fermented Sausages
http://www.amazon.com/dp/0982426712/ref=pe_606_14001560_pe_ar_t1

I've always liked the Kutas book, and others on the subject,
but they fall completely short on the subject of fermented
products. I think this book might fill that niche. Hopefully
some of the recipes will give my cold smoker something to do
this winter.



Hi Mort,
I read the description of the book and it sounds interesting, whats th
deal about salami they mentioned and it being fermented, I never heard
of thif fermanted thing with sausage, give us some insight.
piedmont


Some salamis are fermented and some are not. Different recipes,
much having to do with regional variations, etc.

Take a look at Len's dry cured recipes. It's pretty educational
read. He's also very true to the authentic formulations, though
some of his recipes are brought up to date with more modern
(and safer) preparation techniques.

His dry cured recipes are light years ahead of what's
in the famous Kutas book.

http://lpoli.50webs.com/Sausage%20recipes.htm#DRY

--
Mort
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Old 19-01-2010, 10:37 PM posted to alt.food.barbecue
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Default Fermented Sausages


"Mort" wrote in message
...
Kent wrote:

You can buy Paul Bertolli's fermented sausages at:
http://www.framani.com/our_craft . He is a former chef at Chez Panisse,
in Berkeley, and coauthor with Alice Waters of one of her books. He then
was executive chef at Olivettos in Oakland before plunging into sausage
making. Here's a review of his company on Yelp.
http://www.yelp.com/biz/fra-mani-han...alumi-berkeley . One of
these days when I have a spare $100 I'm going to splurge and buy one.


Please do try them and report back. I've had
friends raves about Olivetto's meats so I expect
it would be a favorable report.

I'd take the word of an afb'er over stuff I read
on yelp anyday.

Don't ask me how I know this.

--
Mort


We've eaten a number of times at Olivettos. It's excellent.



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Old 19-01-2010, 11:07 PM posted to alt.food.barbecue
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Default Fermented Sausages

Kent wrote:

"Mort" wrote in message
...

Kent wrote:


You can buy Paul Bertolli's fermented sausages at:
http://www.framani.com/our_craft . He is a former chef at Chez Panisse,
in Berkeley, and coauthor with Alice Waters of one of her books. He then
was executive chef at Olivettos in Oakland before plunging into sausage
making. Here's a review of his company on Yelp.
http://www.yelp.com/biz/fra-mani-han...alumi-berkeley . One of
these days when I have a spare $100 I'm going to splurge and buy one.


Please do try them and report back. I've had
friends raves about Olivetto's meats so I expect
it would be a favorable report.

I'd take the word of an afb'er over stuff I read
on yelp anyday.

Don't ask me how I know this.

--
Mort



We've eaten a number of times at Olivettos. It's excellent.




Bertolli is one of my food heroes. I have to try
Framani soon.

--
Mort
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Old 20-01-2010, 01:38 AM posted to alt.food.barbecue
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Default Fermented Sausages


"Mort" wrote in message
...
Kent wrote:

"Mort" wrote in message
...

Kent wrote:


You can buy Paul Bertolli's fermented sausages at:
http://www.framani.com/our_craft . He is a former chef at Chez Panisse,
in Berkeley, and coauthor with Alice Waters of one of her books. He then
was executive chef at Olivettos in Oakland before plunging into sausage
making. Here's a review of his company on Yelp.
http://www.yelp.com/biz/fra-mani-han...alumi-berkeley . One of
these days when I have a spare $100 I'm going to splurge and buy one.

Please do try them and report back. I've had
friends raves about Olivetto's meats so I expect
it would be a favorable report.

I'd take the word of an afb'er over stuff I read
on yelp anyday.

Don't ask me how I know this.

--
Mort



We've eaten a number of times at Olivettos. It's excellent.




Bertolli is one of my food heroes. I have to try
Framani soon.

--
Mort


We've met him. He used to graciously wander the dining room and say hello to
diners. He's a real gentleman, in addition to his dedication and talent.
Alice Waters, from Chez Panisse, who originally took him on as a chef, is
very gracious when met in person. She once told me where to buy charcoal
when I wandered in and asked. It's nice to know that lurking behind the
written prose is someone with genuine human qualities, someone you'd like to
know better.

Kent





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