Hi everyone,

Any recommendations for a thermometer you can put in meat and leave in while
grilling?

I just got a weber silver b a few days ago and really want to learn how to
grill better!

Thanks,

SA Dev

SA Dev wrote:
> Hi everyone,
>
> Any recommendations for a thermometer you can put in meat and leave in while
> grilling?
>
> I just got a weber silver b a few days ago and really want to learn how to
> grill better!
>
> Thanks,
>
> SA Dev

Yes. Here's one.
http://www.thegadgetsource.com/011502013733.html

OOPS! You said grilling. This one only goes up to about 400 degrees, and while
that's great for the meat temps, you'd probably burn out the probe wire at
grilling temperatures.

BOB

Maverick and Polder make such a thermometer

"SA Dev" > wrote in message >...
> Hi everyone,
>
> Any recommendations for a thermometer you can put in meat and leave in while
> grilling?
>
> I just got a weber silver b a few days ago and really want to learn how to
> grill better!
>
> Thanks,
>
> SA Dev

Weber makes one. It's about $30.00 has the probe wire and a wireless
remote monitor to check the temp from inside the house.

Stan

Tom72735 wrote:
> Maverick and Polder make such a thermometer

Both of which are NOT meant for use for grilling. The probe's wires will
fry.
Dave

"SA Dev" > wrote in message
...
> Hi everyone,
>
> Any recommendations for a thermometer you can put in meat and leave in
while
> grilling?
>
> I just got a weber silver b a few days ago and really want to learn how to
> grill better!
>
> Thanks,
>
> SA Dev
>

Hey Dev.....just get one of those instant read therms that sanitarians use.
Or just learn how to tell doneness by feel. The old cheek, forehead nose
trick. That, at least for grilling beef is the answer. For chicken, when
the juice from a cut through the dark meat runs clear, you're there.

John in Austin

"SA Dev" > wrote in message
...
> Hi everyone,
>
> Any recommendations for a thermometer you can put in meat and leave
in while
> grilling?
>
> I just got a weber silver b a few days ago and really want to learn
how to
> grill better!
>
> Thanks,
>
> SA Dev
>
>

Hi SA Dev,

The Polder & Maverick Probe Wires don't handle > 400°F well.

I would try a meat thermometer that is intended for use in the oven.
Also, a thermocouple would probably work as well, but you need to
select the proper sheath material and I don't have much experience
here.

Hope This Helps,

TomD

On 19-May-2004, "TomD" > wrote:

> "SA Dev" > wrote in message
> ...
> > Hi everyone,
> >
> > Any recommendations for a thermometer you can put in meat and leave
> in while
> > grilling?
> >
> > I just got a weber silver b a few days ago and really want to learn
> how to
> > grill better!
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > SA Dev
> >
> >
>
> Hi SA Dev,
>
> The Polder & Maverick Probe Wires don't handle > 400°F well.
>
> I would try a meat thermometer that is intended for use in the oven.
> Also, a thermocouple would probably work as well, but you need to
> select the proper sheath material and I don't have much experience
> here.
>
> Hope This Helps,

If you jump on the gadget source (www.gadgetsource.com) you'll find
a very cheap meat thermometer made all of metal. The top part will
withstand pretty high temps and the therm part will be controlled by
the temp of the meat itself. Disasters will only cost about $3. Look
for a gadget shaped kind of like a stop sign with the pole and all.

--
M&M ("When You're Over The Hill You Pick Up Speed")

Hi,

> > I would try a meat thermometer that is intended for use in the oven.
> > Also, a thermocouple would probably work as well, but you need to
> > select the proper sheath material and I don't have much experience
> > here.

I've got one of those small all metal with a glass? type top thermometers
like this one:

http://www.thegadgetsource.com/077784059890.html

I bought it for $5, could I leave it in the meat? What type of temps do you
think it could stand?

Thanks!

SA Dev

Who was it that had the industrial electronic thermometer? It wasnt too
expensive and measured temps up to something like 1,000F IIRC. I've lost
the link. I'm thinking Fluke, but..........

Here's a bunch up to 482F
http://www.thermoworks.com/products/...netration.html

Oooh, non contact infrared thermometer
http://www.action-electronics.com/thermom.htm#Laser
.. Measures to 1022°F without contact
.. Super Large LCD display with backlighting
.. Built-in laser pointer to improve aim
.. °F/°C switchable
.. Emissivity (0.1 to 1.0)
.. Pocket sized with carry case

Laserpointer? Pocket carry case? Can anyone say geektoy?! How many will have
this on their Christmas list?
There's two there, one up to 1022F and a cheaper one goes up to 600F.


--

"bob elkind" > wrote:
> see http://www2.oregonscientific.com/catalog/2_9_284.asp
> I called tech support, they confirm that 600 deg grill temp is no problem
> for this product.
>
> this product is available at Costco, see
> http://www.costco.com/product.asp?ca...0043977&hie r
> id=236&log=&navtop=
>
And yet, both URLs say, "Temperature sensor's range -32F to 392F"?

--
Intuitive insights from Nick, Retired in the San Fernando Valley
"Giving violent criminals a government guarantee that their intended
victims are defenseless is bad public policy."
- John Ross, "Unintended Consequences"
If you can read this, thank a teacher.
If you can read it in English, THANK A VETERAN!

Duwop wrote:

> Who was it that had the industrial electronic thermometer? It wasnt too
> expensive and measured temps up to something like 1,000F IIRC. I've lost
> the link. I'm thinking Fluke, but..........

Any digital thermometer that takes wideband type K thermocouples will
go to 2500 °F. Fluke (www.fluke.com) does indeed make them; I own
one. Their web site is so unresponsive at the moment that I can't be
bothered to find the exact URL. Alternatively Google on type K
thermocouple.
--
Andy Williams

The temperature indicator is for THE FOOD, and arguably there shouldn't be
much use for the range above boiling point (give or take the Dead Sea and
Death Valley barbecue joints). So, while the steaks are sizzling and
searing toward culinary perfection, can the rest of the device (i.e. the
temp probe's LEAD) handle the 600 deg or so required for searing ? The
answer is YES.

> wrote in message
...
> "bob elkind" > wrote:
> > see http://www2.oregonscientific.com/catalog/2_9_284.asp
> > I called tech support, they confirm that 600 deg grill temp is no
problem
> > for this product.
> >
> > this product is available at Costco, see
> >
http://www.costco.com/product.asp?ca...0043977&hie r
> > id=236&log=&navtop=
> >
> And yet, both URLs say, "Temperature sensor's range -32F to 392F"?

TomD wrote:
> "SA Dev" > wrote in message
> ...
>> Hi everyone,
>>
>> Any recommendations for a thermometer you can put in meat and leave in while
>> grilling?
>>
>> I just got a weber silver b a few days ago and really want to learn how to
>> grill better!
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> SA Dev
>>
>>
>
> Hi SA Dev,
>
> The Polder & Maverick Probe Wires don't handle > 400°F well.
>
> I would try a meat thermometer that is intended for use in the oven.
> Also, a thermocouple would probably work as well, but you need to
> select the proper sheath material and I don't have much experience
> here.
>
> Hope This Helps,
>
> TomD

Speaking of thermocouples, where's Jack Curry and/or Monroe...?

BOB

On 19-May-2004, "SA Dev" > wrote:
<snip>
> I've got one of those small all metal with a glass? type top thermometers
> like this one:
>
> http://www.thegadgetsource.com/077784059890.html
>
> I bought it for $5, could I leave it in the meat? What type of temps do
> you
> think it could stand?
>
> Thanks!

That one's got a plastic face. I wouldn't try it. Here's the one I was
thinking
of. It's all metal. Costs $9 though. I think I've seen them cheaper in the
big
box stores.

http://www.thegadgetsource.com/077784059371.

--
M&M ("When You're Over The Hill You Pick Up Speed")

On 19-May-2004, "Duwop" > wrote:

> Who was it that had the industrial electronic thermometer? It wasnt too
> expensive and measured temps up to something like 1,000F IIRC. I've lost
> the link. I'm thinking Fluke, but..........
<snip>

The one mentioned in this NG was Fluke.

--
M&M ("When You're Over The Hill You Pick Up Speed")

In article >, " BOB" >
wrote:>
> Speaking of thermocouples, where's Jack Curry and/or Monroe...?
>

and/or Monroe here!
Type K thermocouple wire is available with many types of hi-temp
coatings and is relatively cheap. I've seen it sold on E-bay before,
you might have a look.
The food grade probes can be quite pricey - I just used one of my many
fried polder probes and removed the wires and shoved the thermocouple
into the hollowed stainless probe .
There is no problem with grilling temperatures. There is a problem with
people thinking these units are too expensive.
A Google group search will reveal much of my preaching in the
wilderness about these devices.

monroe(locusts and honey)

Monroe, of course... wrote:

> In article >, " BOB"
> > wrote:>
>> Speaking of thermocouples, where's Jack Curry and/or Monroe...?


> and/or Monroe here!

LOL!!!!

"Monroe, of course..." > wrote in message
...
> In article >, " BOB" >
> wrote:>
> > Speaking of thermocouples, where's Jack Curry and/or Monroe...?
> >
>
> and/or Monroe here!
> Type K thermocouple wire is available with many types of hi-temp
> coatings and is relatively cheap. I've seen it sold on E-bay before,
> you might have a look.
> The food grade probes can be quite pricey - I just used one of my many
> fried polder probes and removed the wires and shoved the thermocouple
> into the hollowed stainless probe .
> There is no problem with grilling temperatures. There is a problem with
> people thinking these units are too expensive.
> A Google group search will reveal much of my preaching in the
> wilderness about these devices.
>
> monroe(locusts and honey)
>
Jack Curry (thermocouple disciple of Monroe) is back from fishin'. I bought
a Fluke industrial quality digital thermometer on ebay (used, but looks and
works brand new) for $70 and then I bought about 25 feet of K thermocouple
that's good to 700° for about $12, also on ebay. That's a lifetime supply.
Did the Monroe trick of stuffing the wire into an old burned out Polder
probe.
Result? Superior accuracy and no more dead Polders littering the yard.

Jack Curry
-thankin' Monroe-

Hello Jack and Monroe,

What type of sheath materials do you use for this?

TIA,

TomD

In article <GSkrc.49757$pJ1.39015@lakeread02>, "TomD"
> wrote:

> Hello Jack and Monroe,
>
> What type of sheath materials do you use for this?
>
Stainless steel. I took an old burned out probe from one of my dead
Polders (I have many of them around!) sliced the crimped section off
and removed the wiring from inside. My thermocouple wiring is the 20
or 24 gauge (I forget which) and it slides right down in there to the
tip. Works like a charm.

monroe(jerry rig tech)

On 21-May-2004, "Monroe, of course..." > wrote:

> Stainless steel. I took an old burned out probe from one of my dead
> Polders (I have many of them around!) sliced the crimped section off
> and removed the wiring from inside. My thermocouple wiring is the 20
> or 24 gauge (I forget which) and it slides right down in there to the
> tip. Works like a charm.

Cool. Did you do anything to seal the entry to the probe after you did
your neat trick? And what kind of wire are you using between the meter
and the probe? I've never had a probe fail yet, so I don't really know much
about it, but you can bet that I'll buy a Fluke next time around.

--
M&M ("When You're Over The Hill You Pick Up Speed")

M&M wrote:
> On 21-May-2004, "Monroe, of course..." >
> wrote:
>
>> Stainless steel. I took an old burned out probe from one of my dead
>> Polders (I have many of them around!) sliced the crimped section off
>> and removed the wiring from inside. My thermocouple wiring is the 20
>> or 24 gauge (I forget which) and it slides right down in there to the
>> tip. Works like a charm.
>
> Cool. Did you do anything to seal the entry to the probe after you did
> your neat trick? And what kind of wire are you using between the meter
> and the probe? I've never had a probe fail yet, so I don't really
> know much about it, but you can bet that I'll buy a Fluke next time
> around.

The wire is Type K thermocouple (it's a pair of alumel and chromel wires
insulated with a very high temp teflon skin). The ends of the two wires are
stripped and twisted together, or caused to weld together by using a 12V
battery and a piece of carbon rod - either way works. The wire comes in
varying gauges and therefore temperature resistances. The twisted pair is
just jammed down into the end of an old Polder probe or any other similar
stainless steel tube. It's not sealed in, since any glue or sealant would
have to be high temp resistant and food safe at the same time. The other
wire ends are fitted into a small male connector that plugs into the Fluke
thermometer. Then you have an extremely accurate, very durable nearly
instant read thermometer that can be inserted into meat or used to measure
any temperature almost anywhere. BTW, Flukes are commonly used in the air
conditioning industry.

Jack Curry

In article >, "Jack Curry"
<Jack-Curry deletethis @cfl.rr.com> wrote:
>
> The wire is Type K thermocouple (it's a pair of alumel and chromel wires
> insulated with a very high temp teflon skin). The ends of the two wires are
> stripped and twisted together, or caused to weld together by using a 12V
> battery and a piece of carbon rod - either way works. The wire comes in
> varying gauges and therefore temperature resistances. The twisted pair is
> just jammed down into the end of an old Polder probe or any other similar
> stainless steel tube. It's not sealed in, since any glue or sealant would
> have to be high temp resistant and food safe at the same time. The other
> wire ends are fitted into a small male connector that plugs into the Fluke
> thermometer. Then you have an extremely accurate, very durable nearly
> instant read thermometer that can be inserted into meat or used to measure
> any temperature almost anywhere. BTW, Flukes are commonly used in the air
> conditioning industry.
>
You could seal the junction with a sploot of hi-temp RTV if you were
planning to use the thing as a meat thermometer strictly-chromel is NOT
something you'd want in contact with your food.
I use mine as a grilling temp indicator mostly - There is not any TC
readouts made yet that have an alarm feature. They make loggers and
min/max data point storage but so far, no alarm function is
available. These units are for industrial purposes, mainly.
Like Jack said-the spot where the two wires first touch to make a
circuit is where the temp is taken. The resistance across that
particular spot where the differing metals meet is what determines the
temp. The teflon skin is not indestructable, though. If it burns
through, you can create a new junction either by welding the wires like
Jack said or re-insulating the break or by cutting the wire back and
twisting the ends to make a new probe end. You can't do that kind of
repair to the polders-when they're dead, they're dead for keeps.
I checked www.omega.com and they have single channel K-type handheld
readouts for less than $70. You simply can't beat that with a stick.
I used these type units (in the real working world) to determine air
temperatures for government spec pollution analysis work. They're
tough, reliable, calibratable and better than just about anything else
available for the purpose.
For Google research purposes here's some keywords: thermocouple, K
type,chromel-alumel, handheld, Omega and Fluke.
Not much works better (between -50F and 2200F that is)

monroe(choir dismissed)

"Monroe, of course..." > wrote:
> [ . . . ]The resistance across that
> particular spot where the differing metals meet is what determines the
> temp.[ . . . ]

More precisely (if you'll excuse the techno-babble), a voltage is generated
when two dissimilar metals are in contact. That voltage varies with the
temperature of the junction. With chromel-alumel junctions, the voltage is
0.00 volts at 32 F., 4.10 mV at 212 F. and 6.09 mV at 300 F. It's a little
more complicated than that, but that's good enough for Qin', smokin' or
grillin' and the like.

--
Intuitive insights from Nick, Retired in the San Fernando Valley

http://operationiraqichildren.org/

On 21-May-2004, "Jack Curry" <Jack-Curry deletethis @cfl.rr.com> wrote:
<snip>
> The wire is Type K thermocouple (it's a pair of alumel and chromel wires
> insulated with a very high temp teflon skin). The ends of the two wires
> are
> stripped and twisted together, or caused to weld together by using a 12V
> battery and a piece of carbon rod - either way works. The wire comes in
> varying gauges and therefore temperature resistances. The twisted pair is
> just jammed down into the end of an old Polder probe or any other similar
> stainless steel tube. It's not sealed in, since any glue or sealant would
> have to be high temp resistant and food safe at the same time. The other
> wire ends are fitted into a small male connector that plugs into the Fluke
> thermometer. Then you have an extremely accurate, very durable nearly
> instant read thermometer that can be inserted into meat or used to measure
> any temperature almost anywhere. BTW, Flukes are commonly used in the air
> conditioning industry.
>
> Jack Curry

Thanks for the details. Probably more info then I'll ever need, but
inquiring minds
just have to know.

--
M&M ("When You're Over The Hill You Pick Up Speed")

In article >,
wrote:

> "Monroe, of course..." > wrote:
> > [ . . . ]The resistance across that
> > particular spot where the differing metals meet is what determines the
> > temp.[ . . . ]
>
> More precisely (if you'll excuse the techno-babble), a voltage is generated
> when two dissimilar metals are in contact. That voltage varies with the
> temperature of the junction. With chromel-alumel junctions, the voltage is
> 0.00 volts at 32 F., 4.10 mV at 212 F. and 6.09 mV at 300 F. It's a little
> more complicated than that, but that's good enough for Qin', smokin' or
> grillin' and the like.

Shoot, Nick-I know V=IR and batteries need changing and that
electronics work better when plugged in. That's about it.
The average thermocouple readout is little more than a specialized
voltmeter. The nice part is, it can be tweaked and calibrated. Can't
do that on a Polder.

"Monroe, of course..." > wrote:
> In article >,
> wrote:
>
> > "Monroe, of course..." > wrote:
> > > [ . . . ]The resistance across that
> > > particular spot where the differing metals meet is what determines
> > > the temp.[ . . . ]
> >
> > More precisely (if you'll excuse the techno-babble), a voltage is
> > generated when two dissimilar metals are in contact. That voltage
> > varies with the temperature of the junction. With chromel-alumel
> > junctions, the voltage is 0.00 volts at 32 F., 4.10 mV at 212 F. and
> > 6.09 mV at 300 F. It's a little more complicated than that, but that's
> > good enough for Qin', smokin' or grillin' and the like.
>
> Shoot, Nick-I know V=IR and batteries need changing and that
> electronics work better when plugged in. That's about it.
> The average thermocouple readout is little more than a specialized
> voltmeter. The nice part is, it can be tweaked and calibrated. Can't
> do that on a Polder.

Acshully, ya git the difference between the junction yer measurin' and
'tother end. Maybe them temp measurers include some kinda gizmometer ta
compensate fer that.

--
Intuitive insights from Nick, Retired in the San Fernando Valley

http://operationiraqichildren.org/

On 22 May 2004 23:29:33 GMT, wrote:

>cshully, ya git the difference between the junction yer measurin' and
>'tother end. Maybe them temp measurers include some kinda gizmometer ta
>compensate fer that.

You can stop now. It isn't going to garner the response you've been
hoping for for days now. Kind of a waste of your time, wasn't it?

you c4n st0p n0w!~~~~ it isnt going to gran3r th3 r3sopnse uvce be3n
4nt1c1pa1ing for days now. kinD of 4w4ste of ur time, w4sn't
ti?!?!?!?!?!??

I can't help but laugh, knowing that it took you three times as long
to type that post as it would have if you had typed it in standard
English. Pretty slow with the wife out of town, eh?


--
Kevin S. Wilson
Tech Writer at a university somewhere in Idaho
"Who put these fingerprints on my imagination?"

"Monroe, of course..." > wrote in message
...
> In article >, "Jack
Curry"
> <Jack-Curry deletethis @cfl.rr.com> wrote:
> >
> > The wire is Type K thermocouple (it's a pair of alumel and chromel
wires
> > insulated with a very high temp teflon skin). The ends of the two
wires are
> > stripped and twisted together, or caused to weld together by using
a 12V
> > battery and a piece of carbon rod - either way works. The wire
comes in
> > varying gauges and therefore temperature resistances. The twisted
pair is
> > just jammed down into the end of an old Polder probe or any other
similar
> > stainless steel tube. It's not sealed in, since any glue or
sealant would
> > have to be high temp resistant and food safe at the same time.
The other
> > wire ends are fitted into a small male connector that plugs into
the Fluke
> > thermometer. Then you have an extremely accurate, very durable
nearly
> > instant read thermometer that can be inserted into meat or used to
measure
> > any temperature almost anywhere. BTW, Flukes are commonly used in
the air
> > conditioning industry.
> >
> You could seal the junction with a sploot of hi-temp RTV if you were
> planning to use the thing as a meat thermometer strictly-chromel is
NOT
> something you'd want in contact with your food.
> I use mine as a grilling temp indicator mostly - There is not any
TC
> readouts made yet that have an alarm feature. They make loggers and
> min/max data point storage but so far, no alarm function is
> available. These units are for industrial purposes, mainly.
> Like Jack said-the spot where the two wires first touch to make a
> circuit is where the temp is taken. The resistance across that
> particular spot where the differing metals meet is what determines
the
> temp. The teflon skin is not indestructable, though. If it burns
> through, you can create a new junction either by welding the wires
like
> Jack said or re-insulating the break or by cutting the wire back and
> twisting the ends to make a new probe end. You can't do that kind of
> repair to the polders-when they're dead, they're dead for keeps.
> I checked www.omega.com and they have single channel K-type handheld
> readouts for less than $70. You simply can't beat that with a
stick.
> I used these type units (in the real working world) to determine air
> temperatures for government spec pollution analysis work. They're
> tough, reliable, calibratable and better than just about anything
else
> available for the purpose.
> For Google research purposes here's some keywords: thermocouple, K
> type,chromel-alumel, handheld, Omega and Fluke.
> Not much works better (between -50F and 2200F that is)
>
> monroe(choir dismissed)


Thx for the input fellas. I have been kicking the idea of a
thermocouple around for a year or two. I'll give it a try this year.

TomD

"Jack Curry" <Jack-Curry deletethis @cfl.rr.com> wrote in message
. ..
> M&M wrote:
> > On 21-May-2004, "Monroe, of course..." >
> > wrote:
> >
> >> Stainless steel. I took an old burned out probe from one of my dead
> >> Polders (I have many of them around!) sliced the crimped section off
> >> and removed the wiring from inside. My thermocouple wiring is the 20
> >> or 24 gauge (I forget which) and it slides right down in there to the
> >> tip. Works like a charm.
> >
> > Cool. Did you do anything to seal the entry to the probe after you did
> > your neat trick? And what kind of wire are you using between the meter
> > and the probe? I've never had a probe fail yet, so I don't really
> > know much about it, but you can bet that I'll buy a Fluke next time
> > around.
>
> The wire is Type K thermocouple (it's a pair of alumel and chromel wires
> insulated with a very high temp teflon skin). The ends of the two wires are
> stripped and twisted together, or caused to weld together by using a 12V
> battery and a piece of carbon rod - either way works. The wire comes in
> varying gauges and therefore temperature resistances. The twisted pair is
> just jammed down into the end of an old Polder probe or any other similar
> stainless steel tube. It's not sealed in, since any glue or sealant would
> have to be high temp resistant and food safe at the same time. The other
> wire ends are fitted into a small male connector that plugs into the Fluke
> thermometer. Then you have an extremely accurate, very durable nearly
> instant read thermometer that can be inserted into meat or used to measure
> any temperature almost anywhere. BTW, Flukes are commonly used in the air
> conditioning industry.
>
> Jack Curry

I believe some pics from both of you are in order on A.B.F.

_________
ht_redneck

Tyler Hopper wrote:

> I believe some pics from both of you are in order on A.B.F.

That would be a great idea, Tyler (good to see you back, btw). I would love
to see a multi-part picture show & tell, demonstrating equipment and
assembly of thermocouples. Even better, it could be part of a mini faq on
thermometers that could be posted when the question about thermometers
arises. The questioner could be pointed to ABF where the picture-faq would
be posted as needed. Anyone up to putting the picture-faq together?
Dave

In article >, "Dave Bugg"
<deebuggatcharterdotnet> wrote:

> Tyler Hopper wrote:
>
> > I believe some pics from both of you are in order on A.B.F.
>
> That would be a great idea, Tyler (good to see you back, btw). I would love
> to see a multi-part picture show & tell, demonstrating equipment and
> assembly of thermocouples. Even better, it could be part of a mini faq on
> thermometers that could be posted when the question about thermometers
> arises. The questioner could be pointed to ABF where the picture-faq would
> be posted as needed. Anyone up to putting the picture-faq together?

I still am digicam free or I'd do it. I CAN give these links to the
best of thermocouple reading I've found - starting with John De
Armond's splendid treatise:

http://yarchive.net/electr/thermocouples.html

The next two articles are a little more geeky, with equations and all:

http://www.ewh.ieee.org/soc/cpmt/tc7/ast1999/RS_TC/

http://www.keithley.cl/SERVICEnSUPPO...ature=220.html

May be more than you ever wanted to know!

monroe(see www.fluke.com and www.omega.com)

"Monroe, of course..." > wrote:
> [ . . . ]
> May be more than you ever wanted to know!
>
Thanks (of course). Not more than I wanted to know, but more than I can
absorb at one sitting!

You are rapidly becoming my favorite geek.

--
Intuitive insights from Nick, Retired in the San Fernando Valley

http://operationiraqichildren.org/