I had to laugh at myself this last weekend. I had my SO's mother over
to celebrate her 85th birthday. She likes for me to make her food
that she doesn't get to have anymore, food that reminds her of growing
up with all her family of brothers.

So, since we had brisket last get together, I decided on spares. It
didn't hurt that I found them for $1.29 a pound when making the
decision.

The ribs were pretty meaty looking, so I decided to put the rub on the
night before instead of just a couple of hours like normal. When I go
them out to wash the blood off and to clean any membrane left, I was
really surprised at how big they were. Not all of them, but they must
have butchered a hog that had been on the run for a couple of years.
There were about 4 ribs in the largest rack that were almost 12"
long. All the racks were strangely long, with the 3 racks in the bag
totaling about 15 lbs or so.

Hmmm..... big ribs..... probably an old hog.... probably tough meat.
I chickened out on getting up early to put them on, and decided to
clean the pit at about 2 am, then put them on at about 3 am. The
happy place for he smoker was about 210F that night, so I went to be
knowing I wouldn't burn anything up at that low temp.

The WSM held steady, but at 9:30 am the ribs weren't done. Perfect! I
kicked it up to 225F or so and left the smaller racks in for another
hour, and they were perfect. But that left the two large pieces on
the top rack that weren't close. I checked them again in an hour...
nope. Another hour, nope. Finally, at 3:30 pm, they were done.

The bones slipped around in some places on the rack just a bit, but
the meat didn't fall off the bone. Since I don't sauce, it was odd to
me that the meat wasn't burned anywhere. Using the rib rack, the ribs
were a bit dry where they fit just under the dome, but otherwise they
were just great.

I was glad I cut the rib racks into halves so I could use the rib
rack. I put the smaller pieces on the lower grid knowing it runs a
bit cooler. All the big halves went up top.

Gotta say, I felt like king of the pit when those big fellas were done
since they tasted great and they weren't burned after all that time in
the pit. There was no "smoke ring" on them. The meat was pink (and
juicy) all the way through.

Never, ever have I had any kind of ribs (including dino bones) on the
pit for over 2 hours. I know the first leg was a little light on the
heat, but still, 12 hours? It was weird that the short halves of the
racks were finished a few hours before the large halves.

I learned something, though. First, trust your instincts and remember
to allow plenty of time for cooking. (Crap - my last small brisket
nor my last medium butt weren't on that long!) And second, if you see
really oversized spares, don't buy them!

Anyone run into this before?

Robert

Smoking is a tricky type of cooking and times can vary widely. I've read that each time you open the smoker or remove the lid, you're losing 75 degrees. Since the smoker should cook at a low 200F temperature, you're loosing 30%, and it takes 45 minutes to recover that heat.

The best kitchen gadget I own is a wireless thermometer. It has a probe and a transmitter. The probe goes into the meat, and the receiver on my belt, set to a precise finished temperature. With this thermometer, I don't have to open the smoker multiple times and lose heat.

I am surprised that it took 12 hours for your ribs, that seems a bit long. But you should always cook to a finished internal temperature, not by time. Cooking by time entails too many variables. Temperature is quantifiable.

On Oct 6, 7:10*am, ChefToddMohr <ChefToddMohr.511031a.
> wrote:
> Smoking is a tricky type of cooking and times can vary widely. *I've
> read that each time you open the smoker or remove the lid, you're
> losing 75 degrees. *Since the smoker should cook at a low 200F
> temperature, you're loosing 30%, and it takes 45 minutes to recover
> that heat.

Depending on the smoker, that is certainly true. However, on the WSM
when properly set up, it isn't. I didn't open the unit for about 6
1/2 hours as I have a thermo I installed on the unit. It was not
closed up for that 6 1/2 hours until it hit cruising temps.

When you pull up the lid on the WSM, you can pull it straight up for a
peek and not lost much temp at all. It will lose a few degrees (maybe
10), but with 6 -7 pounds of hot sand in the bowl and a well fed fire
in a hot unit it will recover those temps in just a few minutes. I
don't take the lid off for more than a few seconds when checking.

Now my pit on the other hand.... I have to open the lid, too much heat
and smoke gets out, and it <does> take a while to get back to speed.

> The best kitchen gadget I own is a wireless thermometer. *It has a
> probe and a transmitter. *The probe goes into the meat, and the
> receiver on my belt, set to a precise finished temperature. *With this
> thermometer, I don't have to open the smoker multiple times and lose
> heat.

I have two Polders and an unknown that stay outside with the pit. The
probes go neatly into the upper vent hole, and the unit sits on the
deck hand rail. I use those for butts, briskets, whole turkeys and
chuck rolls. I agree with you, it sure makes life easier!

> I am surprised that it took 12 hours for your ribs, that seems a bit
> long. *But you should always cook to a finished internal temperature,
> not by time. *

No one was more surprised than me. I don't use a thermo on ribs as
they are pretty damn predictable. Since you can tell so easily when
they are done, and usually for spares it is 6 - 7 hours, I don't worry
about the time. I plan 8 hours on large spares when fixing a time to
eat to have a little fudge time in there if needed. Since the WSM is
like a wood powered oven because it holds the temps so close, it's
usually a good plan.

It was just these racks....

I can tell you this, the combined brain trust of the Shiner Black
Label Tuesday night grill gang will be discussing this tonight!

Robert

> wrote in message
...
On Oct 6, 7:10 am, ChefToddMohr <ChefToddMohr.511031a.
> wrote:
> Smoking is a tricky type of cooking and times can vary widely. I've
> read that each time you open the smoker or remove the lid, you're
> losing 75 degrees. Since the smoker should cook at a low 200F
> temperature, you're loosing 30%, and it takes 45 minutes to recover
> that heat.

Depending on the smoker, that is certainly true. However, on the WSM
when properly set up, it isn't. I didn't open the unit for about 6
1/2 hours as I have a thermo I installed on the unit. It was not
closed up for that 6 1/2 hours until it hit cruising temps.

When you pull up the lid on the WSM, you can pull it straight up for a
peek and not lost much temp at all. It will lose a few degrees (maybe
10), but with 6 -7 pounds of hot sand in the bowl and a well fed fire
in a hot unit it will recover those temps in just a few minutes. I
don't take the lid off for more than a few seconds when checking.

Now my pit on the other hand.... I have to open the lid, too much heat
and smoke gets out, and it <does> take a while to get back to speed.

> The best kitchen gadget I own is a wireless thermometer. It has a
> probe and a transmitter. The probe goes into the meat, and the
> receiver on my belt, set to a precise finished temperature. With this
> thermometer, I don't have to open the smoker multiple times and lose
> heat.

I have two Polders and an unknown that stay outside with the pit. The
probes go neatly into the upper vent hole, and the unit sits on the
deck hand rail. I use those for butts, briskets, whole turkeys and
chuck rolls. I agree with you, it sure makes life easier!

> I am surprised that it took 12 hours for your ribs, that seems a bit
> long. But you should always cook to a finished internal temperature,
> not by time.

No one was more surprised than me. I don't use a thermo on ribs as
they are pretty damn predictable. Since you can tell so easily when
they are done, and usually for spares it is 6 - 7 hours, I don't worry
about the time. I plan 8 hours on large spares when fixing a time to
eat to have a little fudge time in there if needed. Since the WSM is
like a wood powered oven because it holds the temps so close, it's
usually a good plan.

It was just these racks....

I can tell you this, the combined brain trust of the Shiner Black
Label Tuesday night grill gang will be discussing this tonight!


can you go back to where you bought them and talk to someone knowledgeable?
Or was there contact information on its wrappings? This is indeed quite
curious.

ChefToddMohr wrote:
> Smoking is a tricky type of cooking and times can vary widely.

BBQ is pretty straight forward, actually. Nothing tricky about it.

> I've
> read that each time you open the smoker or remove the lid, you're
> losing 75 degrees.

Well, it depends on the pit.

> Since the smoker should cook at a low 200F
> temperature,

What? Where did you come up with that rule? The range I use will be from
230F to 275F depending on what I am bbqing. Big Jim will bbq butts and
briskets above 350F.

You keep saying 'smoker'. Do you really mean a pit or do you mean a device
which truly smokes meat as part of a preservative process? If you are really
talking about a 'smoker', then your operating temp should be below 150F (or
thereabouts).

> you're loosing 30%, and it takes 45 minutes to recover
> that heat.

What pit are you talking about?

> The best kitchen gadget I own is a wireless thermometer. It has a
> probe and a transmitter. The probe goes into the meat, and the
> receiver on my belt, set to a precise finished temperature. With this
> thermometer, I don't have to open the smoker multiple times and lose
> heat.

I use one for meats like prime rib I'm roasting. For bbq I've gotten away
from a meat probe, although I do use one to monitor the pit temp.

> I am surprised that it took 12 hours for your ribs, that seems a bit
> long. But you should always cook to a finished internal temperature,
> not by time. Cooking by time entails too many variables. Temperature
> is quantifiable.

--
Dave
What is best in life? "To crush your enemies, see them driven before
you, and to hear the lamentation of the women." -- Conan

On 6-Oct-2009, " > wrote:

> Never, ever have I had any kind of ribs (including dino bones) on the
> pit for over 2 hours. I know the first leg was a little light on the
> heat, but still, 12 hours? It was weird that the short halves of the
> racks were finished a few hours before the large halves.
>
> I learned something, though. First, trust your instincts and remember
> to allow plenty of time for cooking. (Crap - my last small brisket
> nor my last medium butt weren't on that long!) And second, if you see
> really oversized spares, don't buy them!
>
> Anyone run into this before?
>
> Robert

I got a good chuckle out of your post Robert. I expect that most of the
old duffers here have had that experience at one time or another. I
posted something similiar earlier this year as I recall. My ribs always
get done in four hours, but just that once they hung on 'til about eight.
I don't know why and I don't much care. Like you say, "It's done
when it's done".

--
Brick (Youth is wasted on young people)

Dave Bugg wrote:

> ChefToddMohr wrote:
>
>>I've
>>read that each time you open the smoker or remove the lid, you're
>>losing 75 degrees.
>
>
> Well, it depends on the pit.
>

>>you're loosing 30%, and it takes 45 minutes to recover
>>that heat.
>
>
> What pit are you talking about?
>

Yeah, these are really exaggerated figures. Here's an example of
the temps resulting from opening a cookshack. Notice the pit temp
drops all of 20 degrees, then recovers within 10 minutes. My
WSM performs pretty much the same way though it's varies somewhat
with the initial temperature.

<http://robosurf.net/tmp/mod50-20090910-2.png>

I don't open up for the heck of it, but I'm not also not afraid of
doing it when necessary.

And just to drag Alton Brown into this, this also is yet another area
where he makes a big deal over not much. His "opening the oven is evil"
schtick is goofiness.

--
Reg

On Oct 6, 5:53*pm, "Brick" > wrote:

> I got a good chuckle out of your post Robert. I expect that most of the
> old duffers here have had that experience at one time or another.

Well, chuckle no more.

The Tuesday Night Shiner Black Label combined brain trust has solved
the problem.

It was Hogzilla!!

Who knew ?!?

Actually, even after a 12 pack between us, we had nothing....

> posted something similiar earlier this year as I recall. My ribs always
> get done in four hours, but just that once they hung on 'til about eight.
> I don't know why and I don't much care. Like you say, "It's done
> when it's done".

After the riddle couldn't be satisfactorily resolved, I was reminded
of the time I bought an 18+ lb brisket (untrimmed of course) by my
"not so good" friends. Never had I seen one, and I wanted to give it
a whirl. I usually cook a brisket around 300F, so I was figuring
about 10hrs, maybe 12. It was something like 18 to finish, and it was
not a good piece of meat when it was finished.

The point was fine, but the flat was dry as dirt. Now, my limit is
about 14 - 15# which have been a bit difficult to find on occasion.
It doesn't hurt my feelings at all to smoke 12 - 13# briskets now as I
don't have so many to feed.

I have found too, that a smaller, well shaped brisket (12 -13#) seems
to make a more consistent end product.

Robert

RegForte wrote:

> Yeah, these are really exaggerated figures. Here's an example of
> the temps resulting from opening a cookshack. Notice the pit temp
> drops all of 20 degrees, then recovers within 10 minutes. My
> WSM performs pretty much the same way though it's varies somewhat
> with the initial temperature.

That's what I was thinking. Thanks.


--
Dave
What is best in life? "To crush your enemies, see them driven before
you, and to hear the lamentation of the women." -- Conan

Nunya Bidnits wrote:

> RegForte said:
>
>
>>Yeah, these are really exaggerated figures. Here's an example of
>>the temps resulting from opening a cookshack. Notice the pit temp
>>drops all of 20 degrees, then recovers within 10 minutes. My
>>WSM performs pretty much the same way though it's varies somewhat
>>with the initial temperature.
>>
>><http://robosurf.net/tmp/mod50-20090910-2.png>
>
>
>
> What model of Cookshack are you using? We're using an FE-100 by Cookshack
> for competition, and the temp drop is considerably greater than that, and
> recovery a little longer, more like 15 minutes. For example, cooking 3 slabs
> at 260F, open to check doneness and mop, and the temp will drop to 170 or so
> and take 15 minutes to fully recover. For that reason the cooker has
> drawbacks if you want to finish the meat with any kind of caramelized glaze.
> .
>
> One thing about it is that you have to snorkel vac the firepot every time
> you use it, and every third or fourth run you should unscrew the cover on
> the surrounding box and vac that out too, otherwise there will be a hidden
> buildup of ash in the box which falls through the ventilating holes in the
> firepot. That buildup significantly reduces heat recovery time and impairs
> starting.

It was a Model 50.

Tell me a little about that FE-100. I came pretty close to ordering one
at one point.

Can it cold smoke OK? What's the lowest temp that it can generate smoke
reliably?

--
Reg

On Tue, 6 Oct 2009 08:48:40 -0700 (PDT) in alt.food.barbecue,
" > wrote,
>Now my pit on the other hand.... I have to open the lid, too much heat
>and smoke gets out, and it <does> take a while to get back to speed.

Maybe there should be a "peek door" so you don't have to open the whole
lid.

"David Harmon" > wrote in message
...
> On Tue, 6 Oct 2009 08:48:40 -0700 (PDT) in alt.food.barbecue,
> " > wrote,
>>Now my pit on the other hand.... I have to open the lid, too much heat
>>and smoke gets out, and it <does> take a while to get back to speed.
>
> Maybe there should be a "peek door" so you don't have to open the whole
> lid.
>

maybe we all need "grill cams"

Wallace wrote:
> "David Harmon" wrote ...
>> nailshooter41 wrote,
>>> Now my pit on the other hand.... I have to open the lid, too much
>>> heat and smoke gets out, and it <does> take a while to get back to
>>> speed.
>>
>> Maybe there should be a "peek door" so you don't have to open the
>> whole lid.
>>
>
> maybe we all need "grill cams"

http://www.lenoxinst.com/Pultz_High-Temp_Cameras.html
Of course at those temperatures you would only need
about 2 seconds to cook.


--
DougW

Nunya Bidnits wrote:

> RegForte said:
>
>>It was a Model 50.
>>
>>Tell me a little about that FE-100. I came pretty close to ordering
>>one at one point.
>>
>>Can it cold smoke OK? What's the lowest temp that it can generate
>>smoke reliably?
>
>
>
> We haven't truly cold smoked in it, but it's capable. I can't offer you any
> personal recommendation on that part however.
>
> One thing about it, the smoke flavor it yields is low compared to a stick
> burner. But it's quite reliable as long as you have a clean power source, so
> if you're using it off-site you need a quality generator and backup battery.
> But like any gizmo it has some quirks. If you lose power at any point you
> have to reset it, and watch the firepot because by default it will dump
> fresh pellets when repowered and try to ignite them, which can smother
> whatever is presently burning. It will also reset back to it's default temp
> and cooktime.
>
> Somewhere above 375-400F it will kick in a safety which shuts it down, and
> you have to open the controller box to reset it. The parts are fairly
> reliable other than the igniter. We gave up on it and built a little
> miniature sterno-chimney out of a shaker can to start a cup of pellets.
>
> Whether you're going to get much smoky flavor doing that I can't say because
> we haven't done it. But it does turn out respectable barbecue and plenty of
> competitions teams have won big with it. Most of them have at least two, or
> some other second cooker, since the box tends to stay within 10-15 degrees
> throughout, so there are no hot and cool zones for cooking different foods
> at the same time.
>
> If you'll be using it outside get the insulator cover, which works extremely
> well in cool or windy conditions. You'll also want an elbow chimney
> extension with cap, since the open side facing exhaust is easily affected by
> the wind.
>
> Also I recommend the optional rack setup which lets you put in more racks at
> one time and control spacing between them better.
>
> My one pet peeve about it is that it has no stop hinges or catch to hold the
> door open when you're working alone. If you aren't on a perfect level, or in
> a wind, it will keep coming back shut on you, and if you forget about it,
> the hot door hitting you on the shoulder or arm will remind you pretty
> quick. It seems like a no brainer to put a $5 better hinge or catch on a
> $3500 machine to prevent that. We rigged a bungy cord to keep it open, but
> messing with that just means it's open that much longer.
>

Thanks for all the great info.

When business picks back up the FE-100 will be high on my list.

--
Reg