Barbecue (alt.food.barbecue) Discuss barbecue and grilling--southern style "low and slow" smoking of ribs, shoulders and briskets, as well as direct heat grilling of everything from burgers to salmon to vegetables.

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thanks desi, Lee

"Desideria" > wrote in message
...
> On Sun, 20 Sep 2009 19:35:54 -0400, D > wrote:
>
>>Stormmee wrote:
>>> how does your salmon turn out? this is one thing i am very interested
>>> in
>>> doing, Lee

>>
>>Top posting is common for email but doesn't work so well in the Usenet
>>groups. You can configure Outlook Express to handle then differently.
>>
>>D

>
>
> Ummm, D....
>
> If you look back thru Stormmee's (Lee's) posts for a while, you'll see
> that the topic was discussed exhaustively. Lee has a screen reader and
> she says that none of the systems to make bottom posts work
> automatically will function with her screen reader.
>
> Mostly folks who have an issue with her top posting tend to eventually
> killfile her to just avoid annoyance.
>
> (I'm not one of them, by the way, but I have no issue with those who
> are, nor does Lee)
>
>
> Desideria



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no apology needed, Lee

"D" > wrote in message
...
> Desideria wrote:
>> On Sun, 20 Sep 2009 19:35:54 -0400, D > wrote:
>>
>>> Stormmee wrote:
>>>> how does your salmon turn out? this is one thing i am very interested
>>>> in doing, Lee
>>> Top posting is common for email but doesn't work so well in the Usenet
>>> groups. You can configure Outlook Express to handle then differently.
>>>
>>> D

>>
>>
>> Ummm, D....
>>
>> If you look back thru Stormmee's (Lee's) posts for a while, you'll see
>> that the topic was discussed exhaustively. Lee has a screen reader and
>> she says that none of the systems to make bottom posts work
>> automatically will function with her screen reader.
>>
>> Mostly folks who have an issue with her top posting tend to eventually
>> killfile her to just avoid annoyance.
>>
>> (I'm not one of them, by the way, but I have no issue with those who
>> are, nor does Lee)
>>
>>
>> Desideria

>
> If you are saying she has a vision problem, then I apologize for my
> suggestion.
>
> D



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so lets get back to the cold smoking issue, do you know anything about it, i
am current collecting information so i can do it in the future. Lee


"D" > wrote in message
...
> Nick Cramer wrote:
>> D > wrote:
>>> Stormmee wrote:
>>>> how does your salmon turn out? this is one thing i am very interested
>>>> in doing, Lee
>>> Top posting is common for email but doesn't work so well in the Usenet
>>> groups. You can configure Outlook Express to handle then differently.

>>
>> We've been through this many times with many people over the years, D.
>>
>> As far as I'm concerned, Stormee Lee and Granby, being relatively blind,
>> are special cases, to whose top-posting I, personally, have no objection.
>>

>
> Got it, and I agree. I had no idea.
>
> Apologies to all!
>
> D



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thanks i am saving this post, the concept of scallops and sharp cheddar is
making me drool, Lee


"Matt" > wrote in message
...
>
>
> "Stormmee" > wrote in message
> ...
>> this is an area i know virtually nothing about. after reading here and a
>> couple of other places i am interested in a general discussion on this
>> topic... for/agains? do you do it and on what products? site
>> reccomendations? recipes? the whole deal,
>>
>> Lee
>>

>
> Smoking cheese is a favorite of mine and is easy to do with a Bradley. I
> typically do most of my cheese smoking when the temps outside are cooler.
> The Bradley is insulated so temps tend to rise a bit even when you have
> the main heating element off and just running the puck burner for smoke.
> If you want to smoke cheese during the hotter months, then you will need
> to do a bit of modification and build a smoking box to hold your food,
> then attached the smoke generator to that with a dryer hose. This removes
> the source of heat from the smoking chamber. I don't go through that
> trouble, instead I smoke a lot of cheese during the cooler months. After
> I smoke the cheese, I vacuum seal it and have been able to keep cheese
> this way for months in the fridge.
>
> Regardless of how long I am going to be storing the smoked cheese, I
> vacuum seal it anyway and let it rest for a few weeks before eating. This
> seems to help the smoke flavor 'mellow' a bit. If you eat it too soon
> after smoking it can taste like you've dropped it into an ash tray. It
> takes a bit of experimenting and practice to get it to how you like it.
> Some people like it with a ton of smoke, others are put off by more than
> just a hint of smoke. I wouldn't go out and buy the most expensive cheese
> you can find for your first attempt, instead practice with smaller
> quantities first.
>
> Gouda is one of my favorites to smoke. I typically use apple, but
> sometimes maple or hickory. Besides gouda, I also like to smoke cheddars,
> provalone, swiss, etc...
>
> Cold smoking is also a good way to impart some smokiness to items that
> would normally be grilled such as steaks, poultry, seafood, etc.. Cold
> smoke pork chops or steaks for 20-30 minutes before tossing them on the
> grill. Same goes for seafood such as scallops, prawns, shrimp, etc...
> Cold smoke a chicken for 20-30 minutes, then shove a beer can up it's rear
> and plop it on the grill.
>
> I've never cold smoked salmon, but lots of people do. You can do a search
> for lox and turn up lots of recipes for cold smoking salmon.
>
> Matt
>
>
>



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"Dave Bugg" > wrote in message
...
> Theron wrote:
>
>> Lox, like gravlax, is raw cured salmon. It isn't smoked. To create
>> cold smoked salmon, or Nova lox, you have to do what Jeff above is
>> saying, generate smoke that's essentially at room temperature to
>> smoke the cured fish. I don't think any of the smokers on the market
>> for consumers can do this. They all "cook" the salmon more than you
>> want. We're back to liquid smoke, for the most part.

>
> A prime example of why you are such a hemmorhoid, Kent. As I said in a
> post, you like to nit-pick on stuff to which you have NO knowledge, and
> you will argue ad infinitum. Just how much time have you logged using the
> Bradley, Kent? How much time have you logged using the cold-smoking add-on
> to the Bradley? Don't bother answering, most of us already know the
> answer.
> --
> Dave
> What is best in life? "To crush your enemies, see them driven before
> you, and to hear the lamentation of the women." -- Conan
>

I have tried to cold smoke salmon on a low temp. electric smoker a number of
times, reducing the smoking temp. by increasing the distance from the smoke
source to where smoke touches the cured salmon. I haven't been able to do
it. The salmon always slightly cooks. I wasn't aware that the Bradley had a
smoke generating unit that separated from the smoker itself. In fact you can
buy it separately and make your own box.
http://www.walmart.com/catalog/produ...uct_id=9730206 At $164 it
seems a bit high. I don't know if that would work or not. Maybe a 20' long
"smoke tube" running into a smoking box in the next room? As I said before,
next time I'm going to try liquid smoke. I'll do a taste test of available
liquid smoke products and report my findings.

Ed





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"Stormmee" > wrote in message
...
> you are corrrect, i am interested in the item like at TJ i love it on
> wheat crackers with sharp cheddar, Lee
> "Theron" > wrote in message
> ...
>>
>> "Nonny" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>>
>>> "Theron" > wrote in message
>>> ...
>>>>
>>>> "Stormmee" > wrote in message
>>>> ...
>>>>> salmon is one of the things i am interested in cold smoking, Lee
>>>>> "Theron" > wrote in message
>>>>> ...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "Kent Billeau" > wrote in message
>>>>>> ...
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> "Stormmee" > wrote in message
>>>>>>> ...
>>>>>>>> this is an area i know virtually nothing about. after reading here
>>>>>>>> and a couple of other places i am interested in a general
>>>>>>>> discussion on this topic... for/agains? do you do it and on what
>>>>>>>> products? site reccomendations? recipes? the whole deal,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Cold smoking is quite easy with a Bradley, and is used in some
>>>>>>> interesting ways. For instance, when some folk were out front of
>>>>>>> the subdivision a few years back putting up Christmas decorations,
>>>>>>> before joining them I placed a pound of almonds and a pound of
>>>>>>> cashews on trays and smoked them for an hour. By the time the
>>>>>>> people were ready to get to work, I had warm, smoked nuts to treat
>>>>>>> everybody. Smoking cheese is a matter of taste, of course, but it
>>>>>>> makes an interesting mini wheel to let people cut slices from to put
>>>>>>> on crackers at a party.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Where I use cold smoking most is to impart a smoke flavor to food
>>>>>>> that is ultimately cooked on the grill or microwave. For instance,
>>>>>>> bulk bacon can be purchased, sprayed lightly with a 25% solution of
>>>>>>> maple syrup and then smoked for 20 minutes or so using an Apple
>>>>>>> puck. Then, it can be repackaged, microwaved, fried or even frozen
>>>>>>> for future use.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I know one fellow who smoked a half salmon, then just left it in the
>>>>>>> refrigerator thinking it'd be preserved. Thank goodness he tossed
>>>>>>> it out when he spotted the green. As Nonny mentioned, it's a great
>>>>>>> way to add smoke flavor, tough, to chicken, while still preparing it
>>>>>>> the traditional way on the grill or even in a fryer.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Kent
>>>>>> Will the Bradley smoke at as low a temp. that you need for "cold
>>>>>> smoked salmon"? I think you basically need room temperature smoke,
>>>>>> to avoid cooking the salmon. I've kind of given up on that. The next
>>>>>> time I get some good fresh wild salmon I'm going to make gravlax and
>>>>>> cover the surface with a bit of diluted "liquid smoke".
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Horrors,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Ed
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>> To cold smoke salmon you should cure it first. Make the Scandanivian
>>>> gravlax http://www.cookingforengineers.com/recipe/132/Gravlax
>>>> and then smoke following. I've tried this several times without
>>>> success. The salmon ended up stiff and "cooked". I met quite a savvy
>>>> fellow Scandinavian who said, shockingly, what I said above. You make
>>>> the gravlax, and then apply carefully diluted liquid smoke. I haven't
>>>> tried that, though I'm going to.
>>>>
>>>> As others have said, you have to get "cold smoke" to the fish, and you
>>>> should to do the curing first. You have to have a smoker that will
>>>> generate smoke without heat.
>>>>
>>>> Good Luck
>>>
>>> I think we're talking about two different things. In my case, we
>>> purchase a large salmon fillet. From the refrigerator, it's washed in
>>> cold water then laid on a Bradley grate. It's placed in the Bradley and
>>> one or two Alder pucks are used, for a total time in the smoker of about
>>> 20-40 minutes. The fillet is then brought inside, removed from the rack
>>> and coated well with EVOO, followed by a good dose of dried dill weed
>>> and Kosher salt. It's then taken to the preheated as hot as it can get
>>> grill and cooked for about 5 minutes meat side down, then flipped to the
>>> skin side and cooked until it's the way we like it.
>>>
>>> Here in the Nonny house, there's a disagreement between "leave the fat
>>> on," and "scrape the fat off," group. The fillet is first brought to
>>> the cutting board where it's cut into serving-length pieces and the skin
>>> is removed. In the case of "leave the fat on," it's served with the fat
>>> side down and the grill marks/dill on top. In the case of the "scrape
>>> the fat off" group, I use a fork to gently scrape the fat from the
>>> inverted serving, including the lateral line. Then, like the other, its
>>> flipped and served with the grill marks/dill on top.
>>>
>>> In all cases, it's served with ginger butter on the side, and that's a
>>> very popular addition. With the time the salmon fillet spends in the
>>> smoker, I have no concern about it spoiling.
>>>
>>> --
>>> Nonny
>>>

>> I agree. We are talking about two different things. I think Stormmee is
>> trying to create smoked salmon with the same soft consistency and taste
>> that exists in the "cold smoked salmon" you buy packaged at Trader Joe's.
>> That's what I've been trying to do. It's basically curing and smoking.
>>
>> One important item I left out is that you should freeze and thaw before
>> starting unless you know the salmon has been previously frozen, as most
>> wild "fresh" salmon is. That removes the risk of parasites, and you can
>> eat it cold smoked.
>>
>> Ed
>>
>>
>>

Stormmee, get Trader Joe's "Whole Wheat Unleavened Bread", Trader Joe's
whipped cream cheese, and some capers. Spread cream cheese on a piece of
bread, put on a few capers, and top with smoked salmon.
Life won't be the same after,
Cheers,

Ed

Don't use Phile non whipped cheese. It's too heavy.


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"Stormmee" > wrote in message
...
> all of that sounds wonderful, am really leaning towards this unit, i would
> consider that stove top thing but i just can't beleive it wouldn't smoke
> my house, Lee
> "Kent Billeau" > wrote in message
> ...
>>
>> "Stormmee" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>> this is an area i know virtually nothing about. after reading here and
>>> a couple of other places i am interested in a general discussion on this
>>> topic... for/agains? do you do it and on what products? site
>>> reccomendations? recipes? the whole deal,

>>
>> Cold smoking is quite easy with a Bradley, and is used in some
>> interesting ways. For instance, when some folk were out front of the
>> subdivision a few years back putting up Christmas decorations, before
>> joining them I placed a pound of almonds and a pound of cashews on trays
>> and smoked them for an hour. By the time the people were ready to get to
>> work, I had warm, smoked nuts to treat everybody. Smoking cheese is a
>> matter of taste, of course, but it makes an interesting mini wheel to let
>> people cut slices from to put on crackers at a party.
>>
>> Where I use cold smoking most is to impart a smoke flavor to food that is
>> ultimately cooked on the grill or microwave. For instance, bulk bacon
>> can be purchased, sprayed lightly with a 25% solution of maple syrup and
>> then smoked for 20 minutes or so using an Apple puck. Then, it can be
>> repackaged, microwaved, fried or even frozen for future use.
>>
>> I know one fellow who smoked a half salmon, then just left it in the
>> refrigerator thinking it'd be preserved. Thank goodness he tossed it out
>> when he spotted the green. As Nonny mentioned, it's a great way to add
>> smoke flavor, tough, to chicken, while still preparing it the traditional
>> way on the grill or even in a fryer.
>>
>> Kent

>
>

Stormmee, if I were going to consider the Bradley, I'd go to the dealer and
ask him to fire it up without any fuel, which he should be willing to do.
Put your own oven thermometer inside and see what the temp is at its lowest
setting. I'd want to be in the 75F or lower at its lowest setting. The
smoking pellet is going to add a few degrees to that. The last time I tried
to smoke salmon I was able to get the temp. at the salmon to 105F. It was
too warm and the salmon cooked more than I wanted. You really want smoke
without heat to reproduct the cold smoked fish we're trying to duplicate.

Ed






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"Stormmee" > wrote in message
...
> interesting thanks, Lee
>
> "JeffH" > wrote in message
> ...
> On Sep 18, 3:14 pm, "Stormmee" > wrote:
>> this is an area i know virtually nothing about. after reading here and a
>> couple of other places i am interested in a general discussion on this
>> topic... for/agains? do you do it and on what products? site
>> reccomendations? recipes? the whole deal,

>
> A few years ago I built a box out of plywood to cold-smoke some ham
> and bacon, among other things. I made a second smaller box and
> attached the two with an aluminum flexable dryer duct. In the small
> box, I put one of those plug-in burners and an old cast-iron pan with
> wood chips in it. Then set a pie-pan with holes in it upside down on
> that. Then setup a computer fan (12 volts - used a spare transformer I
> had lying around) to blow into the box, creating higher pressure,
> which blew the smoke out of the box down the duct to the large box.
> I've heard you want to keep the temp below 100F, but I try to keep it
> below 80F. So naturally, it runs best in the cooler weather; but
> having the smoke box remote through a duct keeps the temp pretty low.
>
> It worked very well. I still have it out back and plan to use it again
> next hog I buy. I may also fire it up for some jerkey and smoked
> peppers (I dry the latter completely after smoking). I always put in
> some cheese when I run it - turns out fantastic. Also, I've made a
> stab at smoking some salt - it came out ok - I use it in recipes
> instead of liquid smoke.
>
> -Jeff
>

I think this is what you need to do. It's a fair effort. I'd make sure I had
a fair stock of wild fresh salmon around.

Ed



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On Wed, 23 Sep 2009 09:26:16 -0700, Theron wrote:

> I wasn't aware that the Bradley had a
> smoke generating unit that separated from the smoker itself. In fact you can
> buy it separately and make your own box.
> http://www.walmart.com/catalog/produ...uct_id=9730206 At $164 it
> seems a bit high. I don't know if that would work or not. Maybe a 20' long
> "smoke tube" running into a smoking box in the next room?


Reg, and others, have mentioned this here over the years at least 20
times.

This is why we call you a troll. You've read these posts in the
past, because they were DIRECTED AT YOU INQUIRIES. Yet you act like
you've never heard of any of this before.

Like I said, talking to you is like talking to a wall.

-sw
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Theron wrote:
> "Dave Bugg" > wrote in message
> ...
>> Theron wrote:
>>
>>> Lox, like gravlax, is raw cured salmon. It isn't smoked. To create
>>> cold smoked salmon, or Nova lox, you have to do what Jeff above is
>>> saying, generate smoke that's essentially at room temperature to
>>> smoke the cured fish. I don't think any of the smokers on the market
>>> for consumers can do this. They all "cook" the salmon more than you
>>> want. We're back to liquid smoke, for the most part.

>>
>> A prime example of why you are such a hemmorhoid, Kent. As I said in
>> a post, you like to nit-pick on stuff to which you have NO
>> knowledge, and you will argue ad infinitum. Just how much time have
>> you logged using the Bradley, Kent? How much time have you logged
>> using the cold-smoking add-on to the Bradley? Don't bother
>> answering, most of us already know the answer.


> I have tried to cold smoke salmon on a low temp. electric smoker a
> number of times, reducing the smoking temp. by increasing the
> distance from the smoke source to where smoke touches the cured
> salmon. I haven't been able to do it. The salmon always slightly
> cooks. I wasn't aware that the Bradley had a smoke generating unit
> that separated from the smoker itself. In fact you can buy it
> separately and make your own box.
> http://www.walmart.com/catalog/produ...uct_id=9730206 At $164
> it seems a bit high. I don't know if that would work or not. Maybe a
> 20' long "smoke tube" running into a smoking box in the next room? As
> I said before, next time I'm going to try liquid smoke. I'll do a
> taste test of available liquid smoke products and report my findings.


GAWD, you are doing the frickin' Dense Dance, Kent.

You make a statement "I don't think any of the smokers on the market for
consumers can do this."

1. You are caught, once again, talking out of sheer ignorance.

2. As others have done before me, I pointed out that the Bradley has a cold
smoking unit designed to do exactly what you claim doesn't exist. (I don't
even bother to point out that my Kamado and other ceramic pits do quite well
with cold smoking).

3. You then do the trademarked 'Kent Backpeddle Boogie' by saying, "I wasn't
aware that the Bradley had a smoke generating unit that separated from the
smoker itself."

4. Next comes the expected 'Kent Discovery Mode' where our hero provides
information that those replying to the thread already know. "In fact you can
buy it separately", Kent says, "and make your own box". Our boy, Kent, then
provides a Walmart url to complete the Backpeddle Boogie.

BUT WAIT, THERE'S MORE!!!!

5. Here comes the 'Kent Priceless Critique' phase, "At $164 it seems a bit
high." Of course, such a review is based on Kent's long-time
consumer-shopping expertise on the Bradley unit.

6. Now we are into Kent's 'Stupid Questioning Phase', in which Kent, despite
the wide-ranging experience of others who have successfully used the Bradley
cold-smoking unit, posits thusly: "I don't know if that would work or not"
..
7. Next we come to the patented 'Kent Dumb-Ass Moment' in which he comes up
with something stupendously off-script. "Maybe a 20' long "smoke tube"
running into a smoking box in the next room?", he asks. And Kent waits with
a certainty that all will acknowledge such profound and heretofore
unknowable wisdom with fawning admiration and applause. Those of us with
experience with the Bradley would normally expect someone in Kent's position
to ask a more sane question like, "How did you set up your unit?". Instead,
we are left shaking our heads in wonder.

8. Then Kent does his 'Hey Everybody, I'm Valuable; Don't Throw Me Off The
Island' routine where he says, "As I said before, next time I'm going to try
liquid smoke. I'll do a taste test of available liquid smoke products and
report my findings." The really sad part is that Kent thinks we can hardly
wait for him to do this and that we even care.

--
Dave
What is best in life? "To crush your enemies, see them driven before
you, and to hear the lamentation of the women." -- Conan




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that is pricey as i just saw the whole unit for $199.99 plus 16.00 for
shipping, Lee


--
If you want to discuss top posting please email me privately, lets not
clutter the news group, thanks*****


..
"Theron" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Dave Bugg" > wrote in message
> ...
>> Theron wrote:
>>
>>> Lox, like gravlax, is raw cured salmon. It isn't smoked. To create
>>> cold smoked salmon, or Nova lox, you have to do what Jeff above is
>>> saying, generate smoke that's essentially at room temperature to
>>> smoke the cured fish. I don't think any of the smokers on the market
>>> for consumers can do this. They all "cook" the salmon more than you
>>> want. We're back to liquid smoke, for the most part.

>>
>> A prime example of why you are such a hemmorhoid, Kent. As I said in a
>> post, you like to nit-pick on stuff to which you have NO knowledge, and
>> you will argue ad infinitum. Just how much time have you logged using the
>> Bradley, Kent? How much time have you logged using the cold-smoking
>> add-on to the Bradley? Don't bother answering, most of us already know
>> the answer.
>> --
>> Dave
>> What is best in life? "To crush your enemies, see them driven before
>> you, and to hear the lamentation of the women." -- Conan
>>

> I have tried to cold smoke salmon on a low temp. electric smoker a number
> of times, reducing the smoking temp. by increasing the distance from the
> smoke source to where smoke touches the cured salmon. I haven't been able
> to do it. The salmon always slightly cooks. I wasn't aware that the
> Bradley had a smoke generating unit that separated from the smoker itself.
> In fact you can buy it separately and make your own box.
> http://www.walmart.com/catalog/produ...uct_id=9730206 At $164 it
> seems a bit high. I don't know if that would work or not. Maybe a 20' long
> "smoke tube" running into a smoking box in the next room? As I said
> before, next time I'm going to try liquid smoke. I'll do a taste test of
> available liquid smoke products and report my findings.
>
> Ed
>
>
>



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Theron wrote:

> Stormmee, if I were going to consider the Bradley, ...


Let me finish this for you, Kent.

>.....I wouldn't listen to anything I say because I have no idea what the
>Bradley is, or does, or recommends. My ignorance exceeds my grasp.

--
Dave
What is best in life? "To crush your enemies, see them driven before
you, and to hear the lamentation of the women." -- Conan


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crap now i am drooling, it is not often we get to TJ the closet one is 75
miles away... but this might be worth the trip, Lee


--
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clutter the news group, thanks*****


..
"Theron" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Stormmee" > wrote in message
> ...
>> you are corrrect, i am interested in the item like at TJ i love it on
>> wheat crackers with sharp cheddar, Lee
>> "Theron" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>>
>>> "Nonny" > wrote in message
>>> ...
>>>>
>>>> "Theron" > wrote in message
>>>> ...
>>>>>
>>>>> "Stormmee" > wrote in message
>>>>> ...
>>>>>> salmon is one of the things i am interested in cold smoking, Lee
>>>>>> "Theron" > wrote in message
>>>>>> ...
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> "Kent Billeau" > wrote in message
>>>>>>> ...
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> "Stormmee" > wrote in message
>>>>>>>> ...
>>>>>>>>> this is an area i know virtually nothing about. after reading
>>>>>>>>> here and a couple of other places i am interested in a general
>>>>>>>>> discussion on this topic... for/agains? do you do it and on what
>>>>>>>>> products? site reccomendations? recipes? the whole deal,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Cold smoking is quite easy with a Bradley, and is used in some
>>>>>>>> interesting ways. For instance, when some folk were out front of
>>>>>>>> the subdivision a few years back putting up Christmas decorations,
>>>>>>>> before joining them I placed a pound of almonds and a pound of
>>>>>>>> cashews on trays and smoked them for an hour. By the time the
>>>>>>>> people were ready to get to work, I had warm, smoked nuts to treat
>>>>>>>> everybody. Smoking cheese is a matter of taste, of course, but it
>>>>>>>> makes an interesting mini wheel to let people cut slices from to
>>>>>>>> put on crackers at a party.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Where I use cold smoking most is to impart a smoke flavor to food
>>>>>>>> that is ultimately cooked on the grill or microwave. For instance,
>>>>>>>> bulk bacon can be purchased, sprayed lightly with a 25% solution of
>>>>>>>> maple syrup and then smoked for 20 minutes or so using an Apple
>>>>>>>> puck. Then, it can be repackaged, microwaved, fried or even frozen
>>>>>>>> for future use.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I know one fellow who smoked a half salmon, then just left it in
>>>>>>>> the refrigerator thinking it'd be preserved. Thank goodness he
>>>>>>>> tossed it out when he spotted the green. As Nonny mentioned, it's
>>>>>>>> a great way to add smoke flavor, tough, to chicken, while still
>>>>>>>> preparing it the traditional way on the grill or even in a fryer.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Kent
>>>>>>> Will the Bradley smoke at as low a temp. that you need for "cold
>>>>>>> smoked salmon"? I think you basically need room temperature smoke,
>>>>>>> to avoid cooking the salmon. I've kind of given up on that. The next
>>>>>>> time I get some good fresh wild salmon I'm going to make gravlax and
>>>>>>> cover the surface with a bit of diluted "liquid smoke".
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Horrors,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Ed
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>> To cold smoke salmon you should cure it first. Make the Scandanivian
>>>>> gravlax http://www.cookingforengineers.com/recipe/132/Gravlax
>>>>> and then smoke following. I've tried this several times without
>>>>> success. The salmon ended up stiff and "cooked". I met quite a savvy
>>>>> fellow Scandinavian who said, shockingly, what I said above. You make
>>>>> the gravlax, and then apply carefully diluted liquid smoke. I haven't
>>>>> tried that, though I'm going to.
>>>>>
>>>>> As others have said, you have to get "cold smoke" to the fish, and you
>>>>> should to do the curing first. You have to have a smoker that will
>>>>> generate smoke without heat.
>>>>>
>>>>> Good Luck
>>>>
>>>> I think we're talking about two different things. In my case, we
>>>> purchase a large salmon fillet. From the refrigerator, it's washed in
>>>> cold water then laid on a Bradley grate. It's placed in the Bradley
>>>> and one or two Alder pucks are used, for a total time in the smoker of
>>>> about 20-40 minutes. The fillet is then brought inside, removed from
>>>> the rack and coated well with EVOO, followed by a good dose of dried
>>>> dill weed and Kosher salt. It's then taken to the preheated as hot as
>>>> it can get grill and cooked for about 5 minutes meat side down, then
>>>> flipped to the skin side and cooked until it's the way we like it.
>>>>
>>>> Here in the Nonny house, there's a disagreement between "leave the fat
>>>> on," and "scrape the fat off," group. The fillet is first brought to
>>>> the cutting board where it's cut into serving-length pieces and the
>>>> skin is removed. In the case of "leave the fat on," it's served with
>>>> the fat side down and the grill marks/dill on top. In the case of the
>>>> "scrape the fat off" group, I use a fork to gently scrape the fat from
>>>> the inverted serving, including the lateral line. Then, like the
>>>> other, its flipped and served with the grill marks/dill on top.
>>>>
>>>> In all cases, it's served with ginger butter on the side, and that's a
>>>> very popular addition. With the time the salmon fillet spends in the
>>>> smoker, I have no concern about it spoiling.
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Nonny
>>>>
>>> I agree. We are talking about two different things. I think Stormmee is
>>> trying to create smoked salmon with the same soft consistency and taste
>>> that exists in the "cold smoked salmon" you buy packaged at Trader
>>> Joe's. That's what I've been trying to do. It's basically curing and
>>> smoking.
>>>
>>> One important item I left out is that you should freeze and thaw before
>>> starting unless you know the salmon has been previously frozen, as most
>>> wild "fresh" salmon is. That removes the risk of parasites, and you can
>>> eat it cold smoked.
>>>
>>> Ed
>>>
>>>
>>>

> Stormmee, get Trader Joe's "Whole Wheat Unleavened Bread", Trader Joe's
> whipped cream cheese, and some capers. Spread cream cheese on a piece of
> bread, put on a few capers, and top with smoked salmon.
> Life won't be the same after,
> Cheers,
>
> Ed
>
> Don't use Phile non whipped cheese. It's too heavy.
>



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have been sitting here wondering if this is a late fall thing, right now
its in the high 50s here but in another month it will be ten degrees cooler,
so if you smoked at night it might work? Lee


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..
"Theron" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Stormmee" > wrote in message
> ...
>> all of that sounds wonderful, am really leaning towards this unit, i
>> would consider that stove top thing but i just can't beleive it wouldn't
>> smoke my house, Lee
>> "Kent Billeau" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>>
>>> "Stormmee" > wrote in message
>>> ...
>>>> this is an area i know virtually nothing about. after reading here and
>>>> a couple of other places i am interested in a general discussion on
>>>> this topic... for/agains? do you do it and on what products? site
>>>> reccomendations? recipes? the whole deal,
>>>
>>> Cold smoking is quite easy with a Bradley, and is used in some
>>> interesting ways. For instance, when some folk were out front of the
>>> subdivision a few years back putting up Christmas decorations, before
>>> joining them I placed a pound of almonds and a pound of cashews on trays
>>> and smoked them for an hour. By the time the people were ready to get
>>> to work, I had warm, smoked nuts to treat everybody. Smoking cheese is
>>> a matter of taste, of course, but it makes an interesting mini wheel to
>>> let people cut slices from to put on crackers at a party.
>>>
>>> Where I use cold smoking most is to impart a smoke flavor to food that
>>> is ultimately cooked on the grill or microwave. For instance, bulk
>>> bacon can be purchased, sprayed lightly with a 25% solution of maple
>>> syrup and then smoked for 20 minutes or so using an Apple puck. Then,
>>> it can be repackaged, microwaved, fried or even frozen for future use.
>>>
>>> I know one fellow who smoked a half salmon, then just left it in the
>>> refrigerator thinking it'd be preserved. Thank goodness he tossed it
>>> out when he spotted the green. As Nonny mentioned, it's a great way to
>>> add smoke flavor, tough, to chicken, while still preparing it the
>>> traditional way on the grill or even in a fryer.
>>>
>>> Kent

>>
>>

> Stormmee, if I were going to consider the Bradley, I'd go to the dealer
> and ask him to fire it up without any fuel, which he should be willing to
> do. Put your own oven thermometer inside and see what the temp is at its
> lowest setting. I'd want to be in the 75F or lower at its lowest setting.
> The smoking pellet is going to add a few degrees to that. The last time I
> tried to smoke salmon I was able to get the temp. at the salmon to 105F.
> It was too warm and the salmon cooked more than I wanted. You really want
> smoke without heat to reproduct the cold smoked fish we're trying to
> duplicate.
>
> Ed
>
>
>
>
>
>



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i like the salt idea, Lee


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..
"Theron" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Stormmee" > wrote in message
> ...
>> interesting thanks, Lee
>>
>> "JeffH" > wrote in message
>> ...
>> On Sep 18, 3:14 pm, "Stormmee" > wrote:
>>> this is an area i know virtually nothing about. after reading here and a
>>> couple of other places i am interested in a general discussion on this
>>> topic... for/agains? do you do it and on what products? site
>>> reccomendations? recipes? the whole deal,

>>
>> A few years ago I built a box out of plywood to cold-smoke some ham
>> and bacon, among other things. I made a second smaller box and
>> attached the two with an aluminum flexable dryer duct. In the small
>> box, I put one of those plug-in burners and an old cast-iron pan with
>> wood chips in it. Then set a pie-pan with holes in it upside down on
>> that. Then setup a computer fan (12 volts - used a spare transformer I
>> had lying around) to blow into the box, creating higher pressure,
>> which blew the smoke out of the box down the duct to the large box.
>> I've heard you want to keep the temp below 100F, but I try to keep it
>> below 80F. So naturally, it runs best in the cooler weather; but
>> having the smoke box remote through a duct keeps the temp pretty low.
>>
>> It worked very well. I still have it out back and plan to use it again
>> next hog I buy. I may also fire it up for some jerkey and smoked
>> peppers (I dry the latter completely after smoking). I always put in
>> some cheese when I run it - turns out fantastic. Also, I've made a
>> stab at smoking some salt - it came out ok - I use it in recipes
>> instead of liquid smoke.
>>
>> -Jeff
>>

> I think this is what you need to do. It's a fair effort. I'd make sure I
> had a fair stock of wild fresh salmon around.
>
> Ed
>
>
>





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"Sqwertz" > wrote in message
...
> On Wed, 23 Sep 2009 09:26:16 -0700, Theron wrote:
>
>> I wasn't aware that the Bradley had a
>> smoke generating unit that separated from the smoker itself. In fact you
>> can
>> buy it separately and make your own box.
>> http://www.walmart.com/catalog/produ...uct_id=9730206 At $164 it
>> seems a bit high. I don't know if that would work or not. Maybe a 20'
>> long
>> "smoke tube" running into a smoking box in the next room?

>
> Reg, and others, have mentioned this here over the years at least 20
> times.
>
> This is why we call you a troll. You've read these posts in the
> past, because they were DIRECTED AT YOU INQUIRIES. Yet you act like
> you've never heard of any of this before.
>
> Like I said, talking to you is like talking to a wall.
>
> -sw
>
>

I'm simply responding to Stormmee's query. That's what a NG is all about.
There may be a new product, a new food ingredient, a technique that hasn't
been thought of before, etc. Stormmee doesn't have to hunt the old posts.
She wants to know what someone thinks right this minute. So do I.

Again, above, you're confused about the definition of a troll, and again,
from Wikipekia:
"Troll: In Internet slang, a troll is someone who posts controversial,
inflammatory, irrelevant or off-topic messages in an online community, such
as an online discussion forum, chat room or blog, with the primary intent of
provoking other users into an emotional response[1] or of otherwise
disrupting normal on-topic discussion."

Mosf of your recent contributions are something like:

OB Food: linguini with smelt and cheddar cheese

That always occurs after something that has nothing to do with this NG, and
it's usually caustic in some way.

Ed









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Theron wrote:

> "Troll: In Internet slang, a troll is someone who posts controversial,
> inflammatory, irrelevant or off-topic messages in an online
> community, such as an online discussion forum, chat room or blog,
> with the primary intent of provoking other users into an emotional
> response[1] or of otherwise disrupting normal on-topic discussion."


Damn. That's you all over, Kent.

> OB Food: linguini with smelt and cheddar cheese


You have AFB confused with RFC. We don't require that sort of OB crap. It's
pretentious; but it fits you to a 'T'

> That always occurs after something that has nothing to do with this
> NG, and it's usually caustic in some way.


We've known for years that your pH is off, Kent. No news there.

--
Dave
What is best in life? "To crush your enemies, see them driven before
you, and to hear the lamentation of the women." -- Conan


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Theron wrote:


> Again, above, you're confused about the definition of a troll, and again,
> from Wikipekia:
> "Troll: In Internet slang, a troll is someone who posts controversial,
> inflammatory, irrelevant or off-topic messages in an online community, such
> as an online discussion forum, chat room or blog, with the primary intent of
> provoking other users into an emotional response[1] or of otherwise
> disrupting normal on-topic discussion."
>


Theron/Kent/Ed,

You seem concerned about whether the troll accusation
fairly applies. In my opinion there are some questions
that keep the issue alive. I'll pick one.

Why would you ask about the safety of eating uncooked
country ham (a rather strange question to say the least,
and one which predictably sparked a good deal of
controversy), then having gotten an answer, ask it again
in the same place 4 years later?

Not a big deal to me you understand, but without some
clarification here I'd say the preponderance of the
evidence in everyone's minds will continue to be
against you.

Time to put a slab on the smoker and go for a surf.

--
Reg
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RegForte wrote:

> Time to put a slab on the smoker and go for a surf.


Now THAT's the life. :-)

--
Dave
What is best in life? "To crush your enemies, see them driven before
you, and to hear the lamentation of the women." -- Conan


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On Wed, 23 Sep 2009 12:32:04 -0700, Dave Bugg wrote:

> You have AFB confused with RFC. We don't require that sort of OB crap. It's
> pretentious


Well, hrmpf!

-sw <nose in air>


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"RegForte" > wrote in message
...
> Theron wrote:
>
>
>> Again, above, you're confused about the definition of a troll, and again,
>> from Wikipekia:
>> "Troll: In Internet slang, a troll is someone who posts controversial,
>> inflammatory, irrelevant or off-topic messages in an online community,
>> such as an online discussion forum, chat room or blog, with the primary
>> intent of provoking other users into an emotional response[1] or of
>> otherwise disrupting normal on-topic discussion."
>>

>
> Theron/Kent/Ed,
>
> You seem concerned about whether the troll accusation
> fairly applies. In my opinion there are some questions
> that keep the issue alive. I'll pick one.
>
> Why would you ask about the safety of eating uncooked
> country ham (a rather strange question to say the least,
> and one which predictably sparked a good deal of
> controversy), then having gotten an answer, ask it again
> in the same place 4 years later?
>
> Not a big deal to me you understand, but without some
> clarification here I'd say the preponderance of the
> evidence in everyone's minds will continue to be
> against you.
>
> Time to put a slab on the smoker and go for a surf.
>
> --
> Reg
>

There are several number of reasons why it is reasonable to readdress an
issue such as that.

1. It wasn't fully answered last time.
2. I don't think it's answered by the country ham industry, or if it
presumably is, some lawyer is telling them what to say.
3. New people watch this group daily, who have different and hopefully
better insights than those who responded four years ago.
4. I think it's a good question.
5. Finally, if you can't raise a fundamental question now and then, like
mop, rub, charcoal, temperature, and etc. what else is there?
How many times do you want to hear "OB food: steak and fries tonight"
at the end of an otherwise inane message?

Regarding trolling: As the above states, a troll is a message that is posted
to create an emotional or disruptive response. The question about ham
doesn't do that. When a poster says "**** off", as was done recently, that
is a troll that invites a flame. I can't be accused of doing that, again,
other than my recent posts to several veteran flamers.

Finally, this is a non moderated newsgroup. While there may have been a
standard of subject, behavior, and so forth when the NG started, a non
moderated newsgroup will expand on its own. The thrust is supposed to be bbq
"Low and Slow". It isn't, and can't be because a minority of this NG's
readers are dedicated "Low and Slow" BBQers. I suspect from a usage
standpoint the gas grill wins hands down, other charcoal grills next, and
last the true smokers if you measure popularity.

Cheers to all,

Ed








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Theron wrote:
> There are several number of reasons why it is reasonable to readdress
> an issue such as that.
>
> 1. It wasn't fully answered last time.


Says you. Your past questions were fully answered. You repeat questions for
only one purpose: to impress newbies. However there are archives which house
past questions and can be accessed quite readily.

> 2. I don't think it's answered by the country ham industry, or if
> it presumably is, some lawyer is telling them what to say.


And here we have people's exhibit 29,387 of why Kent is an asshat. You throw
out non-sequitors and straw-men as if they are relevant, when they are, by
any measure, not. You do so to keep attention on yourself, to pursue the
'number of angels on the head of a pin', and to appear knowledgeable and
sophisticated.

> 3. New people watch this group daily, who have different and
> hopefully better insights than those who responded four years ago.


Prove it. Which new people have chimed in to your inane questions? And if
so, what profound 'new' insights were offered? Again, you prove that you are
doing this to capture people's attention and to pose in the limelight so
that any potential newbie sees you as cool and knowledgeable. You hope to
fool newbies because the folks here just find you inane and tedious.

> 4. I think it's a good question.


Oh, wow. You think a pretentious question from years ago has transformed
into a 'good' question today? Good for you. Maybe in four more years you can
pose your same stupid stuff yet again.

> 5. Finally, if you can't raise a fundamental question now and
> then, like mop, rub, charcoal, temperature, and etc. what else is there?


Oh, so your inanities and boorish presence is really designed to HELP us be
fresh and relevant. So you contend that your repeating questions, being a
poseur, and running a discussion into a nit-picking den of ARRRRGGGGHHHH!!!
is a good thing?

> How many times do you want to hear "OB food: steak and fries tonight" at
> the end of an otherwise inane message?


Well, as the Royal Regent of Ridiculous Inanity that is an odd question.
Just quit adding that OB to the end of your messages. Better yet, don't post
at all.

> Regarding trolling:


Uh, now that you are recognized as the Official NG Troll are you going to
lecture us on trollisims? I don't think there is much interest.


> Finally, this is a non moderated newsgroup.


Duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh. Oh, and DUH!!!!!!!

>While there may have been a standard of subject, behavior, and so forth
>when the NG started, a non moderated newsgroup will expand on its own.


Blood sugar a little low?

> The thrust is supposed to be bbq "Low and Slow".


No. It is dedicated to BBQ and other forms of outdoor cooking. Ask anyone.
The charter has been a frequent topic of discussion. Yet another example of
your dedication to irrelevance.

> It isn't, and can't be because a minority of this NG's readers are
> dedicated "Low and Slow" BBQers. I suspect from a usage standpoint the gas
> grill wins hands down, other charcoal grills next, and last the true
> smokers if you measure popularity.


I know you think you have a point, Kent, but trust me, your point is awol
and has left you treading water.

> Cheers to all


I crap better cheers than you have the ability to offer.

--
Dave
What is best in life? "To crush your enemies, see them driven before
you, and to hear the lamentation of the women." -- Conan


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"Nunya Bidnits" > wrote:
> > This is a civil group. Take your attacks elsewhere. There are may
> > group full of a-holes out there!

>
> And which one of those did you come from, Borat?


Please leave enough attribution that I know who said what to whom and why.

--
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families: https://www.woundedwarriorproject.org/ Thank a Veteran!
Support Our Troops: http://anymarine.com/ You are not forgotten.
Thanks ! ! ~Semper Fi~ USMC 1365061
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"Stormmee" > wrote in message
...
> thanks i am saving this post, the concept of scallops and sharp cheddar is
> making me drool, Lee
>


No problem.

Matt



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Bent Attorney Esq. wrote:

>> I'll skip the killfiles for a while and see what happens. Only "Bent"
>> seems to be the jerk-o-the-day.

>
> Stop talking about yourself jerkoffski. You can't hack it I stand up
> to you and your cliquish troll buddies.


Try again - in English, asswipe.


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Stormmee wrote:
> no apology needed, Lee
>
> "D" > wrote in message
> ...
>> Desideria wrote:
>>> On Sun, 20 Sep 2009 19:35:54 -0400, D > wrote:
>>>
>>>> Stormmee wrote:
>>>>> how does your salmon turn out? this is one thing i am very interested
>>>>> in doing, Lee
>>>> Top posting is common for email but doesn't work so well in the Usenet
>>>> groups. You can configure Outlook Express to handle then differently.
>>>>
>>>> D
>>>
>>> Ummm, D....
>>>
>>> If you look back thru Stormmee's (Lee's) posts for a while, you'll see
>>> that the topic was discussed exhaustively. Lee has a screen reader and
>>> she says that none of the systems to make bottom posts work
>>> automatically will function with her screen reader.
>>>
>>> Mostly folks who have an issue with her top posting tend to eventually
>>> killfile her to just avoid annoyance.
>>>
>>> (I'm not one of them, by the way, but I have no issue with those who
>>> are, nor does Lee)
>>>
>>>
>>> Desideria

>> If you are saying she has a vision problem, then I apologize for my
>> suggestion.
>>
>> D

>
>



Thanks. Post wherever you want!

D
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On Sep 25, 9:20*pm, The D > wrote:
> Bent Attorney Esq. wrote:
> >> I'll skip the killfiles for a while and see what happens. *Only "Bent"
> >> seems to be the jerk-o-the-day.

>
> > Stop talking about yourself jerkoffski. *You can't hack it I stand up
> > to you and your cliquish troll buddies.

>
> Try again - in English, asswipe.


Oooh scary.
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On Sep 22, 8:39*pm, D > wrote:
> Sqwertz wrote:
> > On Mon, 21 Sep 2009 20:55:53 -0400, D wrote:

>
> >> If you are saying she has a vision problem, then I apologize for my
> >> suggestion.

>
> > You're not the first one to fall into this trap. *I did, too. *And I
> > took a beating for not reading every post there is here.

>
> > You are hereby whipped and shunned forever for not paying attention.
> > You and I shall go to hell the way of thou who shall not be named.

>
> > I just killfiled them, and two others. *But now I can't make heads
> > or tails of this group. *Kent is the only balance.

>
> > -sw

>
> I'll skip the killfiles for a while and see what happens. *Only "Bent"
> seems to be the jerk-o-the-day.


Here's some advice 'D', as well as other trolls. If you don't want
trolls on this NG(you I think are a troll btw; you just don't realize
it), then don't act so anal when someone posts something of value.
Half the NG here is anal beyond comprehension; willing to call someone
a troll because he/she won't grovel and kiss ass when they post here.
I don't kiss ass, so I have been labled a troll. 'They' expect people
to come here and like 'Oh you guys I worship you how do you like my
setup, charcoal and can I sacrifice my firstborn in you honour'...
Flip that noise.
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"Nunya Bidnits" > wrote:
> D said:
> > Bent Attorney Esq. wrote:
> >> On Sep 21, 3:40 pm, RegForte > wrote:
> >>> Bent Attorney Esq. wrote:
> >>>> [ . . . ]

>
> And which one of those did you come from, Borat?


Thankee kindly, good sir. I just like to know which of my killfiled
assholes said what and not mistakenly slam one of the good guys by mistake.

--
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Bent Attorney Esq. wrote:
> On Sep 25, 9:20 pm, The D > wrote:
>> Bent Attorney Esq. wrote:
>>>> I'll skip the killfiles for a while and see what happens. Only "Bent"
>>>> seems to be the jerk-o-the-day.
>>> Stop talking about yourself jerkoffski. You can't hack it I stand up
>>> to you and your cliquish troll buddies.

>> Try again - in English, asswipe.

>
> Oooh scary.


Really?


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Bent Attorney Esq. wrote:

>
> Here's some advice 'D', as well as other trolls. If you don't want
> trolls on this NG(you I think are a troll btw; you just don't realize
> it), then don't act so anal when someone posts something of value.
> Half the NG here is anal beyond comprehension; willing to call someone
> a troll because he/she won't grovel and kiss ass when they post here.
> I don't kiss ass, so I have been labled a troll. 'They' expect people
> to come here and like 'Oh you guys I worship you how do you like my
> setup, charcoal and can I sacrifice my firstborn in you honour'...
> Flip that noise.


If "half" of this NG doesn't meet your expectations, you might want to
consider the simple fact that *you* are the "problem".

The door is over there ---------->

D
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On Sep 26, 9:25*pm, The D > wrote:
> Bent Attorney Esq. wrote:
>
> > Here's some advice 'D', as well as other trolls. *If you don't want
> > trolls on this NG(you I think are a troll btw; you just don't realize
> > it), then don't act so anal when someone posts something of value.
> > Half the NG here is anal beyond comprehension; willing to call someone
> > a troll because he/she won't grovel and kiss ass when they post here.
> > I don't kiss ass, so I have been labled a troll. *'They' expect people
> > to come here and like 'Oh you guys I worship you how do you like my
> > setup, charcoal and can I sacrifice my firstborn in you honour'...
> > Flip that noise.

>
> If "half" of this NG doesn't meet your expectations, you might want to
> consider the simple fact that *you* are the "problem".
>
> The door is over there ---------->
>
> D


Anyone who yells troll at posts he/she doesn't particularly like is
the problem. Whether it's 50% or 10% or whatever. That includes you,
so you may wish to follow your own advice; you may also follow the
arrow that you drew for yourself and kick yourself out of here.
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Bent Attorney Esq. wrote:
> On Sep 26, 9:25 pm, The D > wrote:
>> Bent Attorney Esq. wrote:
>>
>>> Here's some advice 'D', as well as other trolls. If you don't want
>>> trolls on this NG(you I think are a troll btw; you just don't realize
>>> it), then don't act so anal when someone posts something of value.
>>> Half the NG here is anal beyond comprehension; willing to call someone
>>> a troll because he/she won't grovel and kiss ass when they post here.
>>> I don't kiss ass, so I have been labled a troll. 'They' expect people
>>> to come here and like 'Oh you guys I worship you how do you like my
>>> setup, charcoal and can I sacrifice my firstborn in you honour'...
>>> Flip that noise.

>> If "half" of this NG doesn't meet your expectations, you might want to
>> consider the simple fact that *you* are the "problem".
>>
>> The door is over there ---------->
>>
>> D

>
> Anyone who yells troll at posts he/she doesn't particularly like is
> the problem. Whether it's 50% or 10% or whatever. That includes you,
> so you may wish to follow your own advice; you may also follow the
> arrow that you drew for yourself and kick yourself out of here.


Read your own posts. I never used the word troll - not once.

You, however, labeled me a troll and then went on to post this:

"Anyone who yells troll at posts he/she doesn't particularly like is the
problem."

and earlier:

"You can't hack it I stand up to you and your cliquish troll buddies."

YOU have the problem here. Learn to play like an adult or leave.

D
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