On Sep 30, 1:29*pm, RockPyle wrote:

That was me, Duwop.

Theron/Kent/etc. didn't properly attribute the quote.

Rock (really a mostly-beginner)

Sorry, he's had almost a decade of questions under his belt which was
the reason for my comment.

We're all beginners for the first 3-4 years. Well, maybe that's me and
am a slow learner. But slow learning seems to go together with slow
cooking. ;-)

It's not something you can do weekly, so it takes a while to get
experience.

On Wed, 30 Sep 2009 18:19:31 -0700 (PDT), Duwop
wrote:

On Sep 30, 1:29*pm, RockPyle wrote:

That was me, Duwop.

Theron/Kent/etc. didn't properly attribute the quote.

Rock (really a mostly-beginner)

Sorry, he's had almost a decade of questions under his belt which was
the reason for my comment.

We're all beginners for the first 3-4 years. Well, maybe that's me and
am a slow learner. But slow learning seems to go together with slow
cooking. ;-)

It's not something you can do weekly, so it takes a while to get
experience.

Sez you! Heheheh

Why can't you do it weekly ?

On Sep 30, 8:06*pm, "Brick" wrote:
On 30-Sep-2009, RockPyle wrote:

On Sep 30, 9:33*am, Duwop wrote:
On Sep 29, 5:45*pm, "Theron" wrote:

I agree with this comment. *I am a beginner (perhaps just leaving
beginner stage) who bought this book and expected more discussion of
how-to rather than just a huge number of recipes.

After 10 or so years and all those questions? That's just plain ole
sad.

That was me, Duwop.

Theron/Kent/etc. didn't properly attribute the quote.

Rock (really a mostly-beginner)

Rock,

What nobody and least of all the FAQ tells you is, "KISS"
"Keep It Simple Stupid". That means, "Don't mess with
rubs. Don't mess with marinades. Don't mess with temps.

Pick a product, be it pork, beef or fowl. Learn how to cook
it to the right degree of done. (Only you know what the right
degree of done is). Only when you can repeat the basics
everytime should you experiment.

When you start your pit it'll get hot pretty quick.When you
put the meat in, it'll drop way off. Surprise, surprise. don't
adjust anything. That cold meat drug the temp down. Let
the pit catch up. Don't get antsy. It'll take an hour or two
depending on how much meat you put in there. If you
keep messing with the draft, you just mess up your fire.
It was already running the way it shoud. Leave it alone.

--
Brick (It took me three years to learn that)

I agree. What struck me most about learning to smoke is how well it
parallels homebrewing (which I have done for 17 years now). You have
a physical set of equipment which you need to learn well. It has
thermal behavior, you can find efficiencies as you play with it, etc.
Then you have the recipes. Hard core style brewers will look to match
a particular style guideline exactly, while taste brewers want to make
a beer that appeals the them and their friends only, no matter what
'style' it does or does not match.

After a while, to formulate a recipe, you learn to read a bunch of
recipes, understand what is common and what adds individualism and
then put your best effort forward.

After recognizing the similarities between smoking and brewing, I did
a lot of reading to understand the equipment as well as the basics of
rubs, marinades, etc. And KISS was certainly part of that initial
education.

Looking at my logs, I certainly paid much more attention to the
temperatures on the half hour, how the temparature drops and then
recovers with the addition of cold meat, and now I am much more calm
about temperature swings if I haven't monkeyed with anything. What I
am now watching mostly is how long I can leave the fire without adding
charcoal or wood, hoping to get to the point where smoking is truly a
background event to whatever else i am doing on the weekend.

I have a Brinkmann two-door rectangular cooker with a Home depot
grilling wok as the charcoal tray and I am still using water in the
tray, although that is probably the next equipment change I make (sand
in the tray and a foiled pie pan to catch the drippings.

My point about the book was that i would not have understood the art
of smoking nearly as well as I (think I) do if I had followed
Professor Wiviott's course to the letter. I would either be ****ed
off at my equipment and that I didn't spend the additional $200 for a
WSM, or I would have given up the sport because it took too much
effort to keep a fire going.

Instead, my version of KISS was to work on short ribs and country ribs
(4 hour smokes) until I was comfortable with adding coals and wood,
making complete coal changes and keeping a fire going for 10+ hours.
Then I jumped into brisket and pulled pork ant then most recently, I
attacked spares.

My goal going into smoking was to replicate pulled pork for my Memphis-
born wife, and I got there about three months into my learning.

Enough rambling. I have convinced myself to smoke some chicken this
weekend using the recipe in step three of Low and Slow. I need to see
if the marinade is available in the Ethnic section of my local snooty
market, or if I need to go to an authentic mexican market.

Rock

On 30-Sep-2009, RockPyle wrote:

On Sep 30, 8:06*pm, "Brick" wrote:
On 30-Sep-2009, RockPyle wrote:

.. . .

I agree. What struck me most about learning to smoke is how well it
parallels homebrewing (which I have done for 17 years now). You have
a physical set of equipment which you need to learn well. It has
thermal behavior, you can find efficiencies as you play with it, etc.

The typical charcoal/lump/wood fired pit has it's own unique thermal
characteristics. It can be forced to deviate slightly from it's inherent
design, but not by all that much without a whole lot of fiddling. Yes I
can build a giant fire in my pit and make it glow cherry red. Alternatively
I can build a tiny fire in my pit and make it heat to barely higher then
the ambient air temperature. Neither of those options is desireable from
a labor standpoint. In the first case I would have to move the pit well
away from the house and buy a new pit every other year. In the second
case, I would have to tend the fire two or three times per hour.

Then you have the recipes. Hard core style brewers will look to match
a particular style guideline exactly, while taste brewers want to make
a beer that appeals the them and their friends only, no matter what
'style' it does or does not match.

I can't really speak about recipies. I haven't developed a liking for
wet ribs and from what I have learned, rubs don't have a large
influence on pulled pork. The pulled variety can be seasoned to
your choice after being pulled. Mostly, I just leave mine alone
and leave it up to my guests as to what they want to do with it.
Mostly, they just eat it leaving little no leftovers.


After a while, to formulate a recipe, you learn to read a bunch of
recipes, understand what is common and what adds individualism and
then put your best effort forward.

I do exactly the same thing. I seldom if ever use a recipe in it's original
form. I suppose that's often because I don't have the exact ingredients
on hand. But many times, I don't like the content of the original and
substitute on purpose to my own taste.


After recognizing the similarities between smoking and brewing, I did
a lot of reading to understand the equipment as well as the basics of
rubs, marinades, etc. And KISS was certainly part of that initial
education.

The variety of rubs and marinades are beyond my ken. I use a modified
version of Emeril's "Essence" or "Bayou Blast" for my 'house' rub. I like
Hound's brine for chicken, but I modify that to reduce the intense citrus.


Looking at my logs, I certainly paid much more attention to the
temperatures on the half hour, how the temparature drops and then
recovers with the addition of cold meat, and now I am much more calm
about temperature swings if I haven't monkeyed with anything. What I
am now watching mostly is how long I can leave the fire without adding
charcoal or wood, hoping to get to the point where smoking is truly a
background event to whatever else i am doing on the weekend.

In the beginning my offset pit drove me nuts and I actually had to throw
out some meat due to creosote contamination. Now I set it and forget
it until the temp begins to drop due to low fuel. I add fuel changing
nothing in the way of airflow controls.


I have a Brinkmann two-door rectangular cooker with a Home depot
grilling wok as the charcoal tray and I am still using water in the
tray, although that is probably the next equipment change I make (sand
in the tray and a foiled pie pan to catch the drippings.

My point about the book was that i would not have understood the art
of smoking nearly as well as I (think I) do if I had followed
Professor Wiviott's course to the letter. I would either be ****ed
off at my equipment and that I didn't spend the additional $200 for a
WSM, or I would have given up the sport because it took too much
effort to keep a fire going.

I know Gary, but have never read his book. I seriously doubt that Gary
himself, follows his book explicitly. He is known to make good food


Instead, my version of KISS was to work on short ribs and country ribs
(4 hour smokes) until I was comfortable with adding coals and wood,
making complete coal changes and keeping a fire going for 10+ hours.
Then I jumped into brisket and pulled pork ant then most recently, I
attacked spares.

Your last statement surprised me. Spares are easy. Heat 'em, leave 'em,
serve 'em, eat 'em.


My goal going into smoking was to replicate pulled pork for my Memphis-
born wife, and I got there about three months into my learning.

I wish I could say I made decent pulled pork in three months.


Enough rambling. I have convinced myself to smoke some chicken this
weekend using the recipe in step three of Low and Slow. I need to see
if the marinade is available in the Ethnic section of my local snooty
market, or if I need to go to an authentic mexican market.

You want to smoke a chicken, go with Hound's brine and at least 24
hours. I've done them 48 and liked it just fine. Figure out how you're
going to crisp up the skin if you care about that. I haven't done it, but
a 400F oven should get the job done. I'm talking about whole bird.
If you're going to part it out or spatchcock (Butterfly) it, the game
is different, but oven should still work. Fifteen or twenty minutes
should get the skin in order/


Rock

You're quicker then I am/was. I started smoking in 2003. Didn't
get really confident with my pit until about 2007. Dont' know why
it took so long. Same pit, same fuel, same environment, but no
sweat. I fire it up, load it and watch TV or whatever until the heat
drops off. Refuel and continue watching TV. The only work is
the initial unpacking, washing and rubbing the meat and finally
the butchering and packing the finished product.

--
Brick (Youth is wasted on young people)

On Sep 30, 6:30*pm, Gene wrote:
On Wed, 30 Sep 2009 18:19:31 -0700 (PDT), Duwop

Why can't you do it weekly ?-

Can't eat that much! Damn!.

BBQ? Well for me, I got a big cooker, so I take advantage of that and
fill it up reasonably well. Do some butts, do a bunch,ribs, etc. The
more the merrier. Am popular with friends and co-workers who I'll let
in on the eats and just charge em for the meat.

On Wed, 30 Sep 2009 21:56:14 -0700 (PDT), Duwop
wrote:

On Sep 30, 6:30*pm, Gene wrote:
On Wed, 30 Sep 2009 18:19:31 -0700 (PDT), Duwop

Why can't you do it weekly ?-

Can't eat that much! Damn!.

BBQ? Well for me, I got a big cooker, so I take advantage of that and
fill it up reasonably well. Do some butts, do a bunch,ribs, etc. The
more the merrier. Am popular with friends and co-workers who I'll let
in on the eats and just charge em for the meat.



I know what you mean

This may sound silly but I have fired up the pit just for the smell!

lol

On Sep 30, 8:34*am, RockPyle wrote:
On Sep 10, 5:20*am, Sqwertz wrote:





On Tue, 8 Sep 2009 13:42:20 -0400, Big Jim wrote:
* If you are new to Barbecue/grilling you might want to gat a copy of Gary
Wiviott's new book, Low &Slow, Master the art of barbecue in 5 easy lessons.
* It covers the use of WSM, offset and Weber Kettle cooking.
* If you follow Gary's directions you will cook pretty good Q right out of
the Gate.

I expect to see Gary peddling his book on late night TV
infomercials. *Event he reviews of his book on Amazon appear to be
staged.

I'm not to fond of his approach to BBQ, or the way he goes about
teaching it, to say the least. *I've read the website. *That's
enough for me.

Professor Wiviot? *He must have pretty strong neck muscles to
support that head.

-sw

I ordered and received the book. *I've not tried any of the recipes,
but skimming through the book, the tone is very off-putting. *Follow
these steps, don't deviate from them, don't use any other available
information, and you will see the light.

Almost like a cult.

That being said, his progression from short to longer smokes and focus
on feeling the fire and understanding done-ness through your senses
rather than just measurements seems like a good addition/alternative
to a more mechanical and time/temperature regime.

I will be trying the marinated chicken recipe soon!

I think the book will be a good addition to the shelf, but certainly
will not have me throwing away all my other books and severing my
connection to the internet!

Rock- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Follow-up on the first required cook from this book:

Made the Mojo Criollo Chicken from Low and Slow and it came out
fantastic.

Bought two small fryers (5.5 lb total) and halved them as per the
instructions in the book. I had seen plenty of recipes involving
spatchcocked chicken, but had never done it. Cutting out the backbone
was easier than I had expected, and then rather than leaving the bird
butterflied, the recipe specifies separating the halves. All of this
was done quite easily and neatly.

Marinated overnight using a 24 ounce bottle of Goya brand Mojo
Criollo, which os a citrus and spice marinade in teh Mexican section
of my local snooty supermarket. I am not sure if my local megamart
carries it, but will check. The marinade was very strong smelling,
which singalled goodness.

After a marinade overnight (longer then the couple of hours in the
book), I popped the birds into my smoker and cooked for about 2 and a
half hours (smoker was running about 260* F).

Chickens came out great! Skin was not crispy but edible (better then
the beer can chicken I made previously). Meat was tender and the
citrus/spice flavor was exquisite!

So, two thumbs up for the first cooking lesson from Wiviott's book!

Rock

On 6-Oct-2009, RockPyle wrote:

On Sep 30, 8:34*am, RockPyle wrote:
On Sep 10, 5:20*am, Sqwertz wrote:

Chickens came out great! Skin was not crispy but edible (better then
the beer can chicken I made previously). Meat was tender and the
citrus/spice flavor was exquisite!

So, two thumbs up for the first cooking lesson from Wiviott's book!

Rock

Nice narrative Rock. I use a lot of that Mojo Criollo myself. All of
the stores around here have it. (Maybe it's because 70% of the
population is Spanish Speaking.). I have smoked quite a few chickens
using a brine overnight or even for 48 hours. A good citrus brine
such as Hound's Brine is excellent and probably better then Mojo
Criollo for chicken. If you want the skin to be more appealing, you
can pop the smoked and still hot chicken in a very hot 400 - 500F
oven for ten or fifteen minutes. It works particularly good for whole
chickens. Not sure about spatchcocked or halved as you did yours.
But I should think a broiler would work in that case.

--
Brick (Youth is wasted on young people)

On Oct 7, 10:41*am, Sqwertz wrote:
On Tue, 6 Oct 2009 12:08:17 -0700 (PDT), RockPyle wrote:
Follow-up on the first required cook from this book:

Made the Mojo Criollo Chicken from Low and Slow and it came out
fantastic.

Bought two small fryers (5.5 lb total) and halved them as per the
instructions in the book. *I had seen plenty of recipes involving
spatchcocked chicken, but had never done it. *Cutting out the backbone
was easier than I had expected, and then rather than leaving the bird
butterflied, the recipe specifies separating the halves. *All of this
was done quite easily and neatly.

Marinated overnight using a 24 ounce bottle of Goya brand Mojo
Criollo, which os a citrus and spice marinade in teh Mexican section
of my local snooty supermarket. *I am not sure if my local megamart
carries it, but will check. *The marinade was very strong smelling,
which singalled goodness.

After a marinade overnight (longer then the couple of hours in the
book), I popped the birds into my smoker and cooked for about 2 and a
half hours (smoker was running about 260* F).

Chickens came out great! *Skin was not crispy but edible (better then
the beer can chicken I made previously). *Meat was tender and the
citrus/spice flavor was exquisite!

So, two thumbs up for the first cooking lesson from Wiviott's book!

That's it? *Buy a bottle of mojo criollo, marinate chicken, and
smoke for 2.5 hours?

Heck, give me $19.95 and I'll teach you a lesson, too. *The first
lesson is that advice like that is free.

-sw- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

That was meant mostly as a balance to my mostly negative review of the
tone of the book.

His approach is sound: first get comfortable with your equipment and
fire, then start with simple recipes and expand as you gain comfort
with your equipment and process.

I started with short ribs, and other small cuts that would cook
quickly to get to know my equipment.

Rock