Barbecue (alt.food.barbecue) Discuss barbecue and grilling--southern style "low and slow" smoking of ribs, shoulders and briskets, as well as direct heat grilling of everything from burgers to salmon to vegetables.

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Default Raichlen's recipes, "How to Grill"

Y'all know I'm a grilling newbie, and I purchased Steven Raichlen's
"How to Grill" book because it was my impression that his books are
highly recommended.

I'll agree that his how-to techniques are helpful. But does anyone
else find his recipes a bit over-fussed-with?

For instance, the first thing I made with his recipes was hamburgers
with garlic butter inside, so you've got a fat burger with something
in the center. Admittedly, my garlic butter was only about
half-frozen, but when I put them on the grill I had terrible flareups,
to the point where the outsides were black and the insides were still
raw--and that was quite a bit after the time that Steven said to cook
them on each side.

Today I tried his basic (?) chicken breast recipe. Calls for
sprinkling sea or kosher salt, cracked peppercorns and hot pepper
flakes on both sides of each breast, then pressing chopped garlic and
chopped rosemary onto each, then marinating them for 30 to 60 minutes
in lemon juice and olive oil.

Again, I made a mistake in cooking them today instead of yesterday, so
they marinated for a bit less than 24 hours--but until now, I always
found that the more marinating, the better. I grilled the breasts and
tried some, and I can't even taste the chicken, much less the
smoke!!!! The flavor is so intense that I have to eat slices of the
breasts in salad to be able to handle them.

What's the opinion here? Am I causing these problems myself, or are
Raichlen's recipes too zesty for even a zest-lover like myself?

Thanks,


Desideria
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Default Raichlen's recipes, "How to Grill"

Desideria wrote:
> Y'all know I'm a grilling newbie, and I purchased Steven Raichlen's
> "How to Grill" book because it was my impression that his books are
> highly recommended.
>
> I'll agree that his how-to techniques are helpful. But does anyone
> else find his recipes a bit over-fussed-with?
>
> For instance, the first thing I made with his recipes was hamburgers
> with garlic butter inside, so you've got a fat burger with something
> in the center. Admittedly, my garlic butter was only about
> half-frozen, but when I put them on the grill I had terrible flareups,
> to the point where the outsides were black and the insides were still
> raw--and that was quite a bit after the time that Steven said to cook
> them on each side.
>
> Today I tried his basic (?) chicken breast recipe. Calls for
> sprinkling sea or kosher salt, cracked peppercorns and hot pepper
> flakes on both sides of each breast, then pressing chopped garlic and
> chopped rosemary onto each, then marinating them for 30 to 60 minutes
> in lemon juice and olive oil.
>
> Again, I made a mistake in cooking them today instead of yesterday, so
> they marinated for a bit less than 24 hours--but until now, I always
> found that the more marinating, the better. I grilled the breasts and
> tried some, and I can't even taste the chicken, much less the
> smoke!!!! The flavor is so intense that I have to eat slices of the
> breasts in salad to be able to handle them.
>
> What's the opinion here? Am I causing these problems myself, or are
> Raichlen's recipes too zesty for even a zest-lover like myself?
>
> Thanks,
>
>
> Desideria


I've never had any problems with his recipes, but understand he does go
all over the world to come up with stuff, so some of the flavors can be
a bit intense.

I think the key any time you make a new recipe is to follow it to the
letter the first go and then adjust to fit your taste.

Keep on cooking, you'll develop a style and feel for what works for you.

But yes, marinades that stay on too long can be a bit much.

Take a look at his brined Buccaneer chicken - lost of flavors but not
too overwhelming (in BBQ Bible)

http://www.bbqu.net/season2/205_4.html

Or his iced tea chicken:

http://www.bbqu.net/season2/208_4.html#iced_tea_chicken
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Default Raichlen's recipes, "How to Grill"

Desideria wrote:
> Y'all know I'm a grilling newbie, and I purchased Steven Raichlen's
> "How to Grill" book because it was my impression that his books are
> highly recommended.
>
> I'll agree that his how-to techniques are helpful. But does anyone
> else find his recipes a bit over-fussed-with?
>
> For instance, the first thing I made with his recipes was hamburgers
> with garlic butter inside, so you've got a fat burger with something
> in the center. Admittedly, my garlic butter was only about
> half-frozen, but when I put them on the grill I had terrible flareups,
> to the point where the outsides were black and the insides were still
> raw--and that was quite a bit after the time that Steven said to cook
> them on each side.
>
> Today I tried his basic (?) chicken breast recipe. Calls for
> sprinkling sea or kosher salt, cracked peppercorns and hot pepper
> flakes on both sides of each breast, then pressing chopped garlic and
> chopped rosemary onto each, then marinating them for 30 to 60 minutes
> in lemon juice and olive oil.
>
> Again, I made a mistake in cooking them today instead of yesterday, so
> they marinated for a bit less than 24 hours--but until now, I always
> found that the more marinating, the better. I grilled the breasts and
> tried some, and I can't even taste the chicken, much less the
> smoke!!!! The flavor is so intense that I have to eat slices of the
> breasts in salad to be able to handle them.
>
> What's the opinion here? Am I causing these problems myself, or are
> Raichlen's recipes too zesty for even a zest-lover like myself?



I think those cookbook writing chefs have to make fussy recipes because
their publishers don't think anyone will buy the books if the recipes
aren't fussy.

One of the most flavorful ways to grill a chicken breast is to shake a
bit of granulated garlic on it and paint it up with some good quality
Dijon mustard. Grill it over medium heat, slice and eat. It can't get
much simpler than that, but who would pay for a recipe like that in a
fancy cookbook written by a so-called grilling guru?

Get the picture? Good. Now go grill something simple and enjoy yourself.

JMTCW

--
Janet Wilder
Way-the-heck-south Texas
Spelling doesn't count. Cooking does.
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Default Raichlen's recipes, "How to Grill"

Cleatarrior wrote:
> Desideria wrote:
>> Y'all know I'm a grilling newbie, and I purchased Steven Raichlen's
>> "How to Grill" book because it was my impression that his books are
>> highly recommended.
>>
>> I'll agree that his how-to techniques are helpful. But does anyone
>> else find his recipes a bit over-fussed-with?
>>
>> For instance, the first thing I made with his recipes was hamburgers
>> with garlic butter inside, so you've got a fat burger with something
>> in the center. Admittedly, my garlic butter was only about
>> half-frozen, but when I put them on the grill I had terrible flareups,
>> to the point where the outsides were black and the insides were still
>> raw--and that was quite a bit after the time that Steven said to cook
>> them on each side.
>>
>> Today I tried his basic (?) chicken breast recipe. Calls for
>> sprinkling sea or kosher salt, cracked peppercorns and hot pepper
>> flakes on both sides of each breast, then pressing chopped garlic and
>> chopped rosemary onto each, then marinating them for 30 to 60 minutes
>> in lemon juice and olive oil.
>>
>> Again, I made a mistake in cooking them today instead of yesterday, so
>> they marinated for a bit less than 24 hours--but until now, I always
>> found that the more marinating, the better. I grilled the breasts and
>> tried some, and I can't even taste the chicken, much less the
>> smoke!!!! The flavor is so intense that I have to eat slices of the
>> breasts in salad to be able to handle them.
>>
>> What's the opinion here? Am I causing these problems myself, or are
>> Raichlen's recipes too zesty for even a zest-lover like myself?
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>>
>> Desideria

>
> I've never had any problems with his recipes, but understand he does go
> all over the world to come up with stuff, so some of the flavors can be
> a bit intense.
>
> I think the key any time you make a new recipe is to follow it to the
> letter the first go and then adjust to fit your taste.
>
> Keep on cooking, you'll develop a style and feel for what works for you.
>
> But yes, marinades that stay on too long can be a bit much.
>
> Take a look at his brined Buccaneer chicken - lost of flavors but not
> too overwhelming (in BBQ Bible)
>
> http://www.bbqu.net/season2/205_4.html
>
> Or his iced tea chicken:
>
> http://www.bbqu.net/season2/208_4.html#iced_tea_chicken


Found a link for Buccaneer chicken, this seems identical to Raichlen's,
but I don't have the book here to do and A/B compariosn.

http://tatu-bbq.com/2007/04/08/bucca...-boucanee.aspx

Yes, store-bought sugar cane carefully splintered (let it dry out 1st)
in the smoke box does some wonderful things.

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Default Raichlen's recipes, "How to Grill"

On Mon, 01 Jun 2009 21:38:46 -0600, Cleatarrior >
wrote:


>
>I've never had any problems with his recipes, but understand he does go
>all over the world to come up with stuff, so some of the flavors can be
>a bit intense.
>
>I think the key any time you make a new recipe is to follow it to the
>letter the first go and then adjust to fit your taste.
>
>Keep on cooking, you'll develop a style and feel for what works for you.
>
>But yes, marinades that stay on too long can be a bit much.
>
>Take a look at his brined Buccaneer chicken - lost of flavors but not
>too overwhelming (in BBQ Bible)
>
>http://www.bbqu.net/season2/205_4.html
>
>Or his iced tea chicken:
>
>http://www.bbqu.net/season2/208_4.html#iced_tea_chicken


Thanks for your input, and for the links!


Desideria


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Default Raichlen's recipes, "How to Grill"

On Mon, 01 Jun 2009 22:39:32 -0500, Janet Wilder
> wrote:

>Desideria wrote:
>> Y'all know I'm a grilling newbie, and I purchased Steven Raichlen's
>> "How to Grill" book because it was my impression that his books are
>> highly recommended.
>>
>> I'll agree that his how-to techniques are helpful. But does anyone
>> else find his recipes a bit over-fussed-with?
>>
>> For instance, the first thing I made with his recipes was hamburgers
>> with garlic butter inside, so you've got a fat burger with something
>> in the center. Admittedly, my garlic butter was only about
>> half-frozen, but when I put them on the grill I had terrible flareups,
>> to the point where the outsides were black and the insides were still
>> raw--and that was quite a bit after the time that Steven said to cook
>> them on each side.
>>
>> Today I tried his basic (?) chicken breast recipe. Calls for
>> sprinkling sea or kosher salt, cracked peppercorns and hot pepper
>> flakes on both sides of each breast, then pressing chopped garlic and
>> chopped rosemary onto each, then marinating them for 30 to 60 minutes
>> in lemon juice and olive oil.
>>
>> Again, I made a mistake in cooking them today instead of yesterday, so
>> they marinated for a bit less than 24 hours--but until now, I always
>> found that the more marinating, the better. I grilled the breasts and
>> tried some, and I can't even taste the chicken, much less the
>> smoke!!!! The flavor is so intense that I have to eat slices of the
>> breasts in salad to be able to handle them.
>>
>> What's the opinion here? Am I causing these problems myself, or are
>> Raichlen's recipes too zesty for even a zest-lover like myself?

>
>
>I think those cookbook writing chefs have to make fussy recipes because
>their publishers don't think anyone will buy the books if the recipes
>aren't fussy.
>
>One of the most flavorful ways to grill a chicken breast is to shake a
>bit of granulated garlic on it and paint it up with some good quality
>Dijon mustard. Grill it over medium heat, slice and eat. It can't get
>much simpler than that, but who would pay for a recipe like that in a
>fancy cookbook written by a so-called grilling guru?
>
>Get the picture? Good. Now go grill something simple and enjoy yourself.
>
>JMTCW


Thanks, Janet. I'll try this one. :-)


Desideria
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Default Raichlen's recipes, "How to Grill"

On Mon, 1 Jun 2009 22:54:31 -0500, "Nunya Bidnits"
> wrote:

>In news >Desideria > typed:
>> Y'all know I'm a grilling newbie, and I purchased Steven Raichlen's
>> "How to Grill" book because it was my impression that his books are
>> highly recommended.
>>
>> I'll agree that his how-to techniques are helpful. But does anyone
>> else find his recipes a bit over-fussed-with?
>>
>> For instance, the first thing I made with his recipes was hamburgers
>> with garlic butter inside, so you've got a fat burger with something
>> in the center. Admittedly, my garlic butter was only about
>> half-frozen, but when I put them on the grill I had terrible flareups,
>> to the point where the outsides were black and the insides were still
>> raw--and that was quite a bit after the time that Steven said to cook
>> them on each side.
>>
>> Today I tried his basic (?) chicken breast recipe. Calls for
>> sprinkling sea or kosher salt, cracked peppercorns and hot pepper
>> flakes on both sides of each breast, then pressing chopped garlic and
>> chopped rosemary onto each, then marinating them for 30 to 60 minutes
>> in lemon juice and olive oil.
>>
>> Again, I made a mistake in cooking them today instead of yesterday, so
>> they marinated for a bit less than 24 hours--but until now, I always
>> found that the more marinating, the better. I grilled the breasts and
>> tried some, and I can't even taste the chicken, much less the
>> smoke!!!! The flavor is so intense that I have to eat slices of the
>> breasts in salad to be able to handle them.
>>
>> What's the opinion here? Am I causing these problems myself, or are
>> Raichlen's recipes too zesty for even a zest-lover like myself?
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>>
>> Desideria

>
>He's not my favorite TV cooking host by quite a ways. I also find his
>recipes overblown, incorrectly seasoned, not well thought out, or lacking in
>the fine details. And notice that if you watch his shows carefully he's not
>exactly achieving pristine well-practiced results all the time.
>
>I agree his seasonings are sometimes over the top, although I did enjoy the
>recent steak episode which featured Argentinian style steak, served with
>chimichurri, but that was only because he showed how to make the stuff. But
>beyond that, nobody has one of those smartass special gaucho grills, so
>demonstrating Argentinian style steak on an obscure, odd, rare, and
>expensive piece of equipment is pretty much a waste of time compared to
>showing how one might do it on a common home grill. I guess it's cool that
>he has forty-eleven different cookers and grills scattered around the yard
>with smoke coming out of every one of them, so he can play little boy gaucho
>if he wants to on TV, but the everyday person who might watch the show to
>pick up some tips isn't going to have all that crap.
>
>And his shows are about grilling and barbecueing, which IMO means it should
>be concentrating on simple direct flavors of foods as they are enhanced by
>cooking on an open fire or in a pit, but he is forever smothering everything
>with so much weird sauces and seasonings that it just doesn't seem like he
>remembers what the shows were about in the first place. I'm all for knowing
>how meat is grilled in different ethnic environments, but I don't buy into
>the notion that authentic ethnic grilled foods are produced in a way such
>that the seasonings and sauces obscure the basic flavors of the food being
>grilled. He doesn't enhance foods with his seasonings and ingredients, he
>hides them.
>
>And he's got a pompous, know-it-all attitude and hoity-toity demeanor that
>puts me off, frankly, especially since his execution and some of his recipes
>really don't match up to his arrogance. That "vacationing with the Duke in
>the south of France" snottiness doesn't do much for me. I can't watch his
>program without the words "arrogant twit" crossing my mind multiple times.
>
>The burger stuffed with garlic butter is just stupid. I've tried stuffing
>burgers and it's downright difficult, and that's without using ingredients
>that are going to melt away, leave a big hole in the middle of the burger,
>and make your grill flame on. Stuffing a burger has a built in pitfall since
>all burgers tend to shrink inwards on the grill, and you need to compensate
>starting off by putting a depression in the center of the burger after you
>mold it, so as to get a nice uniform thickness in the finished result
>without the edges splitting. It's kinda hard to stuff something that needs
>to be thinner in the center than at the edges. So stuffing the burger and
>producing something that doesn't fall apart or otherwise get weird is a real
>engineering challenge. I've only had luck stuffing them with ingredients
>that didn't melt away, and than includes using little or no cheese in the
>stuffing. However a nice mix of chopped mushrooms, seasoned bread crumbs,
>and grilled onions is always nice.
>
>I take it from your comments that the garlic butter was supposed to be
>frozen going in. So what does he expect, that it won't melt when the burger
>is cooked, or maybe that nobody will mind if the center of the burger is
>cold greasy tartare? Cripes. I didn't see the butter stuffed burger
>demonstrated on TV, nor have I read the recipe, but I don't think I need to,
>it's obviously a really stupid idea and he's wasted your time and money. And
>with a buttload of butter dripping out of the burgers, he's probably made a
>nice mess for you as well.
>
>Now as far as the marinade, well, that one's on you. Those are strong
>marinating flavors, and after an hour with mashed in garlic and rosemary,
>and lemon juice and olive oil, that meat should be seasoned to the max. It's
>important to realize that acidic components in marinades cook foods
>chemically, altering not just their taste but also their texture. I would
>have expected pretty much what you described when leaving chicken in such a
>strong marinade for that long.
>
>But that doesn't change my opinion that Raichlen's a DH.
>
>MartyB in KC


*snort!* Thanks, Marty. The guy is so highly-recommended, and I think
even here folks have suggested getting his books---but I was rather
surprised at how unimpressive I found his recipes. Frankly, I'm gonna
stick to just plain old pepper and salt (maybe garlic or onion if I've
feeling adventurous) on my burgers in the future. It just didn't need
all that 'stuff' added.

Speaking of, I also tried his roast corn recipe with garlic butter. I
think corn is a HELL of a lot better just grilled plain, with maybe a
little butter added after. It was okay, but it wasn't as stellar as
plain old ripe corn on the grill. In his recipe, you slather the
garlic butter on before grilling, and keep basting the corn with the
butter and turning it frequently. Really fussy, to my mind.

I'll try out the links from Cleatarrior, because I'm curious. But I'm
sure going to be a lot more cautious in the future. Maybe the salt and
pepper on the chicken, or the lemon and oil and less salt and pepper,
and I think no more red pepper flakes.

It's tasty, but it ain't chicken.


Desideria
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Default Raichlen's recipes, "How to Grill"

Nunya Bidnits wrote:
> In news > Desideria > typed:
>> Y'all know I'm a grilling newbie, and I purchased Steven Raichlen's
>> "How to Grill" book because it was my impression that his books are
>> highly recommended.
>>
>> I'll agree that his how-to techniques are helpful. But does anyone
>> else find his recipes a bit over-fussed-with?
>>
>> For instance, the first thing I made with his recipes was hamburgers
>> with garlic butter inside, so you've got a fat burger with something
>> in the center. Admittedly, my garlic butter was only about
>> half-frozen, but when I put them on the grill I had terrible flareups,
>> to the point where the outsides were black and the insides were still
>> raw--and that was quite a bit after the time that Steven said to cook
>> them on each side.
>>
>> Today I tried his basic (?) chicken breast recipe. Calls for
>> sprinkling sea or kosher salt, cracked peppercorns and hot pepper
>> flakes on both sides of each breast, then pressing chopped garlic and
>> chopped rosemary onto each, then marinating them for 30 to 60 minutes
>> in lemon juice and olive oil.
>>
>> Again, I made a mistake in cooking them today instead of yesterday, so
>> they marinated for a bit less than 24 hours--but until now, I always
>> found that the more marinating, the better. I grilled the breasts and
>> tried some, and I can't even taste the chicken, much less the
>> smoke!!!! The flavor is so intense that I have to eat slices of the
>> breasts in salad to be able to handle them.
>>
>> What's the opinion here? Am I causing these problems myself, or are
>> Raichlen's recipes too zesty for even a zest-lover like myself?
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>>
>> Desideria

>
> He's not my favorite TV cooking host by quite a ways. I also find his
> recipes overblown, incorrectly seasoned, not well thought out, or lacking in
> the fine details. And notice that if you watch his shows carefully he's not
> exactly achieving pristine well-practiced results all the time.
>
> I agree his seasonings are sometimes over the top, although I did enjoy the
> recent steak episode which featured Argentinian style steak, served with
> chimichurri, but that was only because he showed how to make the stuff. But
> beyond that, nobody has one of those smartass special gaucho grills, so
> demonstrating Argentinian style steak on an obscure, odd, rare, and
> expensive piece of equipment is pretty much a waste of time compared to
> showing how one might do it on a common home grill. I guess it's cool that
> he has forty-eleven different cookers and grills scattered around the yard
> with smoke coming out of every one of them, so he can play little boy gaucho
> if he wants to on TV, but the everyday person who might watch the show to
> pick up some tips isn't going to have all that crap.
>
> And his shows are about grilling and barbecueing, which IMO means it should
> be concentrating on simple direct flavors of foods as they are enhanced by
> cooking on an open fire or in a pit, but he is forever smothering everything
> with so much weird sauces and seasonings that it just doesn't seem like he
> remembers what the shows were about in the first place. I'm all for knowing
> how meat is grilled in different ethnic environments, but I don't buy into
> the notion that authentic ethnic grilled foods are produced in a way such
> that the seasonings and sauces obscure the basic flavors of the food being
> grilled. He doesn't enhance foods with his seasonings and ingredients, he
> hides them.
>
> And he's got a pompous, know-it-all attitude and hoity-toity demeanor that
> puts me off, frankly, especially since his execution and some of his recipes
> really don't match up to his arrogance. That "vacationing with the Duke in
> the south of France" snottiness doesn't do much for me. I can't watch his
> program without the words "arrogant twit" crossing my mind multiple times.
>
> The burger stuffed with garlic butter is just stupid. I've tried stuffing
> burgers and it's downright difficult, and that's without using ingredients
> that are going to melt away, leave a big hole in the middle of the burger,
> and make your grill flame on. Stuffing a burger has a built in pitfall since
> all burgers tend to shrink inwards on the grill, and you need to compensate
> starting off by putting a depression in the center of the burger after you
> mold it, so as to get a nice uniform thickness in the finished result
> without the edges splitting. It's kinda hard to stuff something that needs
> to be thinner in the center than at the edges. So stuffing the burger and
> producing something that doesn't fall apart or otherwise get weird is a real
> engineering challenge. I've only had luck stuffing them with ingredients
> that didn't melt away, and than includes using little or no cheese in the
> stuffing. However a nice mix of chopped mushrooms, seasoned bread crumbs,
> and grilled onions is always nice.
>
> I take it from your comments that the garlic butter was supposed to be
> frozen going in. So what does he expect, that it won't melt when the burger
> is cooked, or maybe that nobody will mind if the center of the burger is
> cold greasy tartare? Cripes. I didn't see the butter stuffed burger
> demonstrated on TV, nor have I read the recipe, but I don't think I need to,
> it's obviously a really stupid idea and he's wasted your time and money. And
> with a buttload of butter dripping out of the burgers, he's probably made a
> nice mess for you as well.
>
> Now as far as the marinade, well, that one's on you. Those are strong
> marinating flavors, and after an hour with mashed in garlic and rosemary,
> and lemon juice and olive oil, that meat should be seasoned to the max. It's
> important to realize that acidic components in marinades cook foods
> chemically, altering not just their taste but also their texture. I would
> have expected pretty much what you described when leaving chicken in such a
> strong marinade for that long.
>
> But that doesn't change my opinion that Raichlen's a DH.
>
> MartyB in KC
>


LOL!

Raichlen is a non-acquired personality taste. But he has some uniquwe
recipes and he's good overall on techniques - gas vs. charcoal, etc..

I agree with you on the obscure BBQ rigs, he also has a 55 gallon oil
drum cooker.

Ever see the California cowboy grilling show on RFD TV?

http://www.rfdtv.com/shows/cowboy_flavor.asp

This guy has a unique approach and a mustache that reaches around his ears.

http://www.cowboyflavor.com/

And check out some of his sponsor merchants - good tools and
acccessories to be found.

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On Mon, 01 Jun 2009 22:13:12 -0600, Cleatarrior >
wrote:

>Nunya Bidnits wrote:
>> In news >> Desideria > typed:
>>> Y'all know I'm a grilling newbie, and I purchased Steven Raichlen's
>>> "How to Grill" book because it was my impression that his books are
>>> highly recommended.
>>>
>>> I'll agree that his how-to techniques are helpful. But does anyone
>>> else find his recipes a bit over-fussed-with?
>>>
>>> For instance, the first thing I made with his recipes was hamburgers
>>> with garlic butter inside, so you've got a fat burger with something
>>> in the center. Admittedly, my garlic butter was only about
>>> half-frozen, but when I put them on the grill I had terrible flareups,
>>> to the point where the outsides were black and the insides were still
>>> raw--and that was quite a bit after the time that Steven said to cook
>>> them on each side.
>>>
>>> Today I tried his basic (?) chicken breast recipe. Calls for
>>> sprinkling sea or kosher salt, cracked peppercorns and hot pepper
>>> flakes on both sides of each breast, then pressing chopped garlic and
>>> chopped rosemary onto each, then marinating them for 30 to 60 minutes
>>> in lemon juice and olive oil.
>>>
>>> Again, I made a mistake in cooking them today instead of yesterday, so
>>> they marinated for a bit less than 24 hours--but until now, I always
>>> found that the more marinating, the better. I grilled the breasts and
>>> tried some, and I can't even taste the chicken, much less the
>>> smoke!!!! The flavor is so intense that I have to eat slices of the
>>> breasts in salad to be able to handle them.
>>>
>>> What's the opinion here? Am I causing these problems myself, or are
>>> Raichlen's recipes too zesty for even a zest-lover like myself?
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>>
>>>
>>> Desideria

>>
>> He's not my favorite TV cooking host by quite a ways. I also find his
>> recipes overblown, incorrectly seasoned, not well thought out, or lacking in
>> the fine details. And notice that if you watch his shows carefully he's not
>> exactly achieving pristine well-practiced results all the time.
>>
>> I agree his seasonings are sometimes over the top, although I did enjoy the
>> recent steak episode which featured Argentinian style steak, served with
>> chimichurri, but that was only because he showed how to make the stuff. But
>> beyond that, nobody has one of those smartass special gaucho grills, so
>> demonstrating Argentinian style steak on an obscure, odd, rare, and
>> expensive piece of equipment is pretty much a waste of time compared to
>> showing how one might do it on a common home grill. I guess it's cool that
>> he has forty-eleven different cookers and grills scattered around the yard
>> with smoke coming out of every one of them, so he can play little boy gaucho
>> if he wants to on TV, but the everyday person who might watch the show to
>> pick up some tips isn't going to have all that crap.
>>
>> And his shows are about grilling and barbecueing, which IMO means it should
>> be concentrating on simple direct flavors of foods as they are enhanced by
>> cooking on an open fire or in a pit, but he is forever smothering everything
>> with so much weird sauces and seasonings that it just doesn't seem like he
>> remembers what the shows were about in the first place. I'm all for knowing
>> how meat is grilled in different ethnic environments, but I don't buy into
>> the notion that authentic ethnic grilled foods are produced in a way such
>> that the seasonings and sauces obscure the basic flavors of the food being
>> grilled. He doesn't enhance foods with his seasonings and ingredients, he
>> hides them.
>>
>> And he's got a pompous, know-it-all attitude and hoity-toity demeanor that
>> puts me off, frankly, especially since his execution and some of his recipes
>> really don't match up to his arrogance. That "vacationing with the Duke in
>> the south of France" snottiness doesn't do much for me. I can't watch his
>> program without the words "arrogant twit" crossing my mind multiple times.
>>
>> The burger stuffed with garlic butter is just stupid. I've tried stuffing
>> burgers and it's downright difficult, and that's without using ingredients
>> that are going to melt away, leave a big hole in the middle of the burger,
>> and make your grill flame on. Stuffing a burger has a built in pitfall since
>> all burgers tend to shrink inwards on the grill, and you need to compensate
>> starting off by putting a depression in the center of the burger after you
>> mold it, so as to get a nice uniform thickness in the finished result
>> without the edges splitting. It's kinda hard to stuff something that needs
>> to be thinner in the center than at the edges. So stuffing the burger and
>> producing something that doesn't fall apart or otherwise get weird is a real
>> engineering challenge. I've only had luck stuffing them with ingredients
>> that didn't melt away, and than includes using little or no cheese in the
>> stuffing. However a nice mix of chopped mushrooms, seasoned bread crumbs,
>> and grilled onions is always nice.
>>
>> I take it from your comments that the garlic butter was supposed to be
>> frozen going in. So what does he expect, that it won't melt when the burger
>> is cooked, or maybe that nobody will mind if the center of the burger is
>> cold greasy tartare? Cripes. I didn't see the butter stuffed burger
>> demonstrated on TV, nor have I read the recipe, but I don't think I need to,
>> it's obviously a really stupid idea and he's wasted your time and money. And
>> with a buttload of butter dripping out of the burgers, he's probably made a
>> nice mess for you as well.
>>
>> Now as far as the marinade, well, that one's on you. Those are strong
>> marinating flavors, and after an hour with mashed in garlic and rosemary,
>> and lemon juice and olive oil, that meat should be seasoned to the max. It's
>> important to realize that acidic components in marinades cook foods
>> chemically, altering not just their taste but also their texture. I would
>> have expected pretty much what you described when leaving chicken in such a
>> strong marinade for that long.
>>
>> But that doesn't change my opinion that Raichlen's a DH.
>>
>> MartyB in KC
>>

>
>LOL!
>
>Raichlen is a non-acquired personality taste. But he has some uniquwe
>recipes and he's good overall on techniques - gas vs. charcoal, etc..
>
>I agree with you on the obscure BBQ rigs, he also has a 55 gallon oil
>drum cooker.
>
>Ever see the California cowboy grilling show on RFD TV?
>
>http://www.rfdtv.com/shows/cowboy_flavor.asp
>
>This guy has a unique approach and a mustache that reaches around his ears.
>
>http://www.cowboyflavor.com/
>
>And check out some of his sponsor merchants - good tools and
>acccessories to be found.



I'll definitely grant the 'unique' on those recipes. And I DO like
beer-can chicken, so I'll just keep on trying!!!

(really wish now I'd had the chance to study chemistry in school, to
learn about all these chemical reactions under heat)...


Desideria
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Default Raichlen's recipes, "How to Grill"

Desideria wrote:
> On Mon, 01 Jun 2009 22:13:12 -0600, Cleatarrior >
> wrote:
>
>> Nunya Bidnits wrote:
>>> In news >>> Desideria > typed:
>>>> Y'all know I'm a grilling newbie, and I purchased Steven Raichlen's
>>>> "How to Grill" book because it was my impression that his books are
>>>> highly recommended.
>>>>
>>>> I'll agree that his how-to techniques are helpful. But does anyone
>>>> else find his recipes a bit over-fussed-with?
>>>>
>>>> For instance, the first thing I made with his recipes was hamburgers
>>>> with garlic butter inside, so you've got a fat burger with something
>>>> in the center. Admittedly, my garlic butter was only about
>>>> half-frozen, but when I put them on the grill I had terrible flareups,
>>>> to the point where the outsides were black and the insides were still
>>>> raw--and that was quite a bit after the time that Steven said to cook
>>>> them on each side.
>>>>
>>>> Today I tried his basic (?) chicken breast recipe. Calls for
>>>> sprinkling sea or kosher salt, cracked peppercorns and hot pepper
>>>> flakes on both sides of each breast, then pressing chopped garlic and
>>>> chopped rosemary onto each, then marinating them for 30 to 60 minutes
>>>> in lemon juice and olive oil.
>>>>
>>>> Again, I made a mistake in cooking them today instead of yesterday, so
>>>> they marinated for a bit less than 24 hours--but until now, I always
>>>> found that the more marinating, the better. I grilled the breasts and
>>>> tried some, and I can't even taste the chicken, much less the
>>>> smoke!!!! The flavor is so intense that I have to eat slices of the
>>>> breasts in salad to be able to handle them.
>>>>
>>>> What's the opinion here? Am I causing these problems myself, or are
>>>> Raichlen's recipes too zesty for even a zest-lover like myself?
>>>>
>>>> Thanks,
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Desideria
>>> He's not my favorite TV cooking host by quite a ways. I also find his
>>> recipes overblown, incorrectly seasoned, not well thought out, or lacking in
>>> the fine details. And notice that if you watch his shows carefully he's not
>>> exactly achieving pristine well-practiced results all the time.
>>>
>>> I agree his seasonings are sometimes over the top, although I did enjoy the
>>> recent steak episode which featured Argentinian style steak, served with
>>> chimichurri, but that was only because he showed how to make the stuff. But
>>> beyond that, nobody has one of those smartass special gaucho grills, so
>>> demonstrating Argentinian style steak on an obscure, odd, rare, and
>>> expensive piece of equipment is pretty much a waste of time compared to
>>> showing how one might do it on a common home grill. I guess it's cool that
>>> he has forty-eleven different cookers and grills scattered around the yard
>>> with smoke coming out of every one of them, so he can play little boy gaucho
>>> if he wants to on TV, but the everyday person who might watch the show to
>>> pick up some tips isn't going to have all that crap.
>>>
>>> And his shows are about grilling and barbecueing, which IMO means it should
>>> be concentrating on simple direct flavors of foods as they are enhanced by
>>> cooking on an open fire or in a pit, but he is forever smothering everything
>>> with so much weird sauces and seasonings that it just doesn't seem like he
>>> remembers what the shows were about in the first place. I'm all for knowing
>>> how meat is grilled in different ethnic environments, but I don't buy into
>>> the notion that authentic ethnic grilled foods are produced in a way such
>>> that the seasonings and sauces obscure the basic flavors of the food being
>>> grilled. He doesn't enhance foods with his seasonings and ingredients, he
>>> hides them.
>>>
>>> And he's got a pompous, know-it-all attitude and hoity-toity demeanor that
>>> puts me off, frankly, especially since his execution and some of his recipes
>>> really don't match up to his arrogance. That "vacationing with the Duke in
>>> the south of France" snottiness doesn't do much for me. I can't watch his
>>> program without the words "arrogant twit" crossing my mind multiple times.
>>>
>>> The burger stuffed with garlic butter is just stupid. I've tried stuffing
>>> burgers and it's downright difficult, and that's without using ingredients
>>> that are going to melt away, leave a big hole in the middle of the burger,
>>> and make your grill flame on. Stuffing a burger has a built in pitfall since
>>> all burgers tend to shrink inwards on the grill, and you need to compensate
>>> starting off by putting a depression in the center of the burger after you
>>> mold it, so as to get a nice uniform thickness in the finished result
>>> without the edges splitting. It's kinda hard to stuff something that needs
>>> to be thinner in the center than at the edges. So stuffing the burger and
>>> producing something that doesn't fall apart or otherwise get weird is a real
>>> engineering challenge. I've only had luck stuffing them with ingredients
>>> that didn't melt away, and than includes using little or no cheese in the
>>> stuffing. However a nice mix of chopped mushrooms, seasoned bread crumbs,
>>> and grilled onions is always nice.
>>>
>>> I take it from your comments that the garlic butter was supposed to be
>>> frozen going in. So what does he expect, that it won't melt when the burger
>>> is cooked, or maybe that nobody will mind if the center of the burger is
>>> cold greasy tartare? Cripes. I didn't see the butter stuffed burger
>>> demonstrated on TV, nor have I read the recipe, but I don't think I need to,
>>> it's obviously a really stupid idea and he's wasted your time and money. And
>>> with a buttload of butter dripping out of the burgers, he's probably made a
>>> nice mess for you as well.
>>>
>>> Now as far as the marinade, well, that one's on you. Those are strong
>>> marinating flavors, and after an hour with mashed in garlic and rosemary,
>>> and lemon juice and olive oil, that meat should be seasoned to the max. It's
>>> important to realize that acidic components in marinades cook foods
>>> chemically, altering not just their taste but also their texture. I would
>>> have expected pretty much what you described when leaving chicken in such a
>>> strong marinade for that long.
>>>
>>> But that doesn't change my opinion that Raichlen's a DH.
>>>
>>> MartyB in KC
>>>

>> LOL!
>>
>> Raichlen is a non-acquired personality taste. But he has some uniquwe
>> recipes and he's good overall on techniques - gas vs. charcoal, etc..
>>
>> I agree with you on the obscure BBQ rigs, he also has a 55 gallon oil
>> drum cooker.
>>
>> Ever see the California cowboy grilling show on RFD TV?
>>
>> http://www.rfdtv.com/shows/cowboy_flavor.asp
>>
>> This guy has a unique approach and a mustache that reaches around his ears.
>>
>> http://www.cowboyflavor.com/
>>
>> And check out some of his sponsor merchants - good tools and
>> acccessories to be found.

>
>
> I'll definitely grant the 'unique' on those recipes. And I DO like
> beer-can chicken, so I'll just keep on trying!!!
>
> (really wish now I'd had the chance to study chemistry in school, to
> learn about all these chemical reactions under heat)...
>
>
> Desideria


If you have cable/sat with Food Network, Alton Brown's "Good Eats" show
is great on food chemistry 101.


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Default Raichlen's recipes, "How to Grill"

Denny Wheeler wrote:

> I've never tried stuffing burgers, but I've had good luck with a
> recipe that my mom found somewhere (maybe in one of the hundred or so
> 7" x 9" 'How to cook _____' booklets she had; I've had good luck with
> them) called "Best-Ever Burgers". Effectively, it was:
> 2 lb ground beef
> 1/4 C water
> 1 pkg Lipton onion soup mix
>
> Mix it all together, form into patties, grill or panbroil.
>
> Conceivably there was something else in the recipe, but when I've made
> burgers this way--usually half a batch 'cause I'm by myself--I've
> liked the result. 'Course, I really like the taste of properly cooked
> ground beef with just a bit of S&P&garlic powder.
>
> Naturally, a Google search turns up a bunch of recipes with that name,
> but none I looked at is the one.
>


That's pretty much our default hamburger recipe here. It's very seldom
that I do just plain burgers on the grill- they're always the Lipton
ones. One variation comes not from the ingredients, but from the
technique. I put my soup mix in a bowl and add much less water- just
enough to hydrate the mix. I let it set for about 5-10 minutes, then
use the thick slurry to mix with the hamburger meat. I've found that
with the Lipton mix, that we can use a much less fatty hamburger meat
and get acceptable results.


--
Nonny
'I believe that banking institutions are more dangerous to our liberties
than standing armies. If the American people ever allow private banks to
control the issue of their currency, first by inflation, then by
deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around the banks
will deprive the people of all property until their children wake-up
homeless on the continent their fathers conquered.’

Thomas Jefferson, 1802
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Default Raichlen's recipes, "How to Grill"

On Jun 2, 11:05*am, "Nunya Bidnits" > wrote:
> ,
> Denny Wheeler > typed:
>
>
>
> > On Mon, 1 Jun 2009 22:54:31 -0500, "Nunya Bidnits"
> > > wrote:

>
> >> I've only had luck stuffing them with ingredients
> >> that didn't melt away, and than includes using little or no cheese
> >> in the stuffing. However a nice mix of chopped mushrooms, seasoned
> >> bread crumbs, and grilled onions is always nice.

>
> > I've never tried stuffing burgers, but I've had good luck with a
> > recipe that my mom found somewhere (maybe in one of the hundred or so
> > 7" x 9" 'How to cook _____' booklets she had; I've had good luck with
> > them) called "Best-Ever Burgers". *Effectively, it was:
> > 2 lb ground beef
> > 1/4 C water
> > 1 pkg Lipton onion soup mix

>
> > Mix it all together, form into patties, grill or panbroil.

>
> > Conceivably there was something else in the recipe, but when I've made
> > burgers this way--usually half a batch 'cause I'm by myself--I've
> > liked the result. *'Course, I really like the taste of properly cooked
> > ground beef with just a bit of S&P&garlic powder.

>
> > Naturally, a Google search turns up a bunch of recipes with that name,
> > but none I looked at is the one.

>
> The Lipton onion soup burger is indeed a classic. I've also done it with a
> bit of egg and bread crumb for binding.
>
> MartyB in KC


Egg, bread crumb (or some crushed bran flakes), and also mix in some
BBQ sauce (Cattleboyz/Bullseye/whatever)

/M
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Default Raichlen's recipes, "How to Grill"

On Tue, 02 Jun 2009 13:06:37 -0600, Cleatarrior >
wrote:

>Desideria wrote:
>> On Mon, 01 Jun 2009 22:13:12 -0600, Cleatarrior >
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Nunya Bidnits wrote:
>>>> In news >>>> Desideria > typed:
>>>>> Y'all know I'm a grilling newbie, and I purchased Steven Raichlen's
>>>>> "How to Grill" book because it was my impression that his books are
>>>>> highly recommended.
>>>>>
>>>>> I'll agree that his how-to techniques are helpful. But does anyone
>>>>> else find his recipes a bit over-fussed-with?
>>>>>
>>>>> For instance, the first thing I made with his recipes was hamburgers
>>>>> with garlic butter inside, so you've got a fat burger with something
>>>>> in the center. Admittedly, my garlic butter was only about
>>>>> half-frozen, but when I put them on the grill I had terrible flareups,
>>>>> to the point where the outsides were black and the insides were still
>>>>> raw--and that was quite a bit after the time that Steven said to cook
>>>>> them on each side.
>>>>>
>>>>> Today I tried his basic (?) chicken breast recipe. Calls for
>>>>> sprinkling sea or kosher salt, cracked peppercorns and hot pepper
>>>>> flakes on both sides of each breast, then pressing chopped garlic and
>>>>> chopped rosemary onto each, then marinating them for 30 to 60 minutes
>>>>> in lemon juice and olive oil.
>>>>>
>>>>> Again, I made a mistake in cooking them today instead of yesterday, so
>>>>> they marinated for a bit less than 24 hours--but until now, I always
>>>>> found that the more marinating, the better. I grilled the breasts and
>>>>> tried some, and I can't even taste the chicken, much less the
>>>>> smoke!!!! The flavor is so intense that I have to eat slices of the
>>>>> breasts in salad to be able to handle them.
>>>>>
>>>>> What's the opinion here? Am I causing these problems myself, or are
>>>>> Raichlen's recipes too zesty for even a zest-lover like myself?
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Desideria
>>>> He's not my favorite TV cooking host by quite a ways. I also find his
>>>> recipes overblown, incorrectly seasoned, not well thought out, or lacking in
>>>> the fine details. And notice that if you watch his shows carefully he's not
>>>> exactly achieving pristine well-practiced results all the time.
>>>>
>>>> I agree his seasonings are sometimes over the top, although I did enjoy the
>>>> recent steak episode which featured Argentinian style steak, served with
>>>> chimichurri, but that was only because he showed how to make the stuff. But
>>>> beyond that, nobody has one of those smartass special gaucho grills, so
>>>> demonstrating Argentinian style steak on an obscure, odd, rare, and
>>>> expensive piece of equipment is pretty much a waste of time compared to
>>>> showing how one might do it on a common home grill. I guess it's cool that
>>>> he has forty-eleven different cookers and grills scattered around the yard
>>>> with smoke coming out of every one of them, so he can play little boy gaucho
>>>> if he wants to on TV, but the everyday person who might watch the show to
>>>> pick up some tips isn't going to have all that crap.
>>>>
>>>> And his shows are about grilling and barbecueing, which IMO means it should
>>>> be concentrating on simple direct flavors of foods as they are enhanced by
>>>> cooking on an open fire or in a pit, but he is forever smothering everything
>>>> with so much weird sauces and seasonings that it just doesn't seem like he
>>>> remembers what the shows were about in the first place. I'm all for knowing
>>>> how meat is grilled in different ethnic environments, but I don't buy into
>>>> the notion that authentic ethnic grilled foods are produced in a way such
>>>> that the seasonings and sauces obscure the basic flavors of the food being
>>>> grilled. He doesn't enhance foods with his seasonings and ingredients, he
>>>> hides them.
>>>>
>>>> And he's got a pompous, know-it-all attitude and hoity-toity demeanor that
>>>> puts me off, frankly, especially since his execution and some of his recipes
>>>> really don't match up to his arrogance. That "vacationing with the Duke in
>>>> the south of France" snottiness doesn't do much for me. I can't watch his
>>>> program without the words "arrogant twit" crossing my mind multiple times.
>>>>
>>>> The burger stuffed with garlic butter is just stupid. I've tried stuffing
>>>> burgers and it's downright difficult, and that's without using ingredients
>>>> that are going to melt away, leave a big hole in the middle of the burger,
>>>> and make your grill flame on. Stuffing a burger has a built in pitfall since
>>>> all burgers tend to shrink inwards on the grill, and you need to compensate
>>>> starting off by putting a depression in the center of the burger after you
>>>> mold it, so as to get a nice uniform thickness in the finished result
>>>> without the edges splitting. It's kinda hard to stuff something that needs
>>>> to be thinner in the center than at the edges. So stuffing the burger and
>>>> producing something that doesn't fall apart or otherwise get weird is a real
>>>> engineering challenge. I've only had luck stuffing them with ingredients
>>>> that didn't melt away, and than includes using little or no cheese in the
>>>> stuffing. However a nice mix of chopped mushrooms, seasoned bread crumbs,
>>>> and grilled onions is always nice.
>>>>
>>>> I take it from your comments that the garlic butter was supposed to be
>>>> frozen going in. So what does he expect, that it won't melt when the burger
>>>> is cooked, or maybe that nobody will mind if the center of the burger is
>>>> cold greasy tartare? Cripes. I didn't see the butter stuffed burger
>>>> demonstrated on TV, nor have I read the recipe, but I don't think I need to,
>>>> it's obviously a really stupid idea and he's wasted your time and money. And
>>>> with a buttload of butter dripping out of the burgers, he's probably made a
>>>> nice mess for you as well.
>>>>
>>>> Now as far as the marinade, well, that one's on you. Those are strong
>>>> marinating flavors, and after an hour with mashed in garlic and rosemary,
>>>> and lemon juice and olive oil, that meat should be seasoned to the max. It's
>>>> important to realize that acidic components in marinades cook foods
>>>> chemically, altering not just their taste but also their texture. I would
>>>> have expected pretty much what you described when leaving chicken in such a
>>>> strong marinade for that long.
>>>>
>>>> But that doesn't change my opinion that Raichlen's a DH.
>>>>
>>>> MartyB in KC
>>>>
>>> LOL!
>>>
>>> Raichlen is a non-acquired personality taste. But he has some uniquwe
>>> recipes and he's good overall on techniques - gas vs. charcoal, etc..
>>>
>>> I agree with you on the obscure BBQ rigs, he also has a 55 gallon oil
>>> drum cooker.
>>>
>>> Ever see the California cowboy grilling show on RFD TV?
>>>
>>> http://www.rfdtv.com/shows/cowboy_flavor.asp
>>>
>>> This guy has a unique approach and a mustache that reaches around his ears.
>>>
>>> http://www.cowboyflavor.com/
>>>
>>> And check out some of his sponsor merchants - good tools and
>>> acccessories to be found.

>>
>>
>> I'll definitely grant the 'unique' on those recipes. And I DO like
>> beer-can chicken, so I'll just keep on trying!!!
>>
>> (really wish now I'd had the chance to study chemistry in school, to
>> learn about all these chemical reactions under heat)...
>>
>>
>> Desideria

>
>If you have cable/sat with Food Network, Alton Brown's "Good Eats" show
>is great on food chemistry 101.



Yes, I get it and I've watched some of his shows. Fascinating, but to
remember it I'd have to take notes. ;-)


Desideria
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Default Raichlen's recipes, "How to Grill"

Nunya Bidnits wrote:
> In ,
> Cleatarrior > typed:
>> Cleatarrior wrote:
>>> Desideria wrote:
>>>> Y'all know I'm a grilling newbie, and I purchased Steven Raichlen's
>>>> "How to Grill" book because it was my impression that his books are
>>>> highly recommended.
>>>>
>>>> I'll agree that his how-to techniques are helpful. But does anyone
>>>> else find his recipes a bit over-fussed-with?
>>>>
>>>> For instance, the first thing I made with his recipes was hamburgers
>>>> with garlic butter inside, so you've got a fat burger with something
>>>> in the center. Admittedly, my garlic butter was only about
>>>> half-frozen, but when I put them on the grill I had terrible
>>>> flareups, to the point where the outsides were black and the
>>>> insides were still raw--and that was quite a bit after the time
>>>> that Steven said to cook them on each side.
>>>>
>>>> Today I tried his basic (?) chicken breast recipe. Calls for
>>>> sprinkling sea or kosher salt, cracked peppercorns and hot pepper
>>>> flakes on both sides of each breast, then pressing chopped garlic
>>>> and chopped rosemary onto each, then marinating them for 30 to 60
>>>> minutes in lemon juice and olive oil.
>>>>
>>>> Again, I made a mistake in cooking them today instead of yesterday,
>>>> so they marinated for a bit less than 24 hours--but until now, I
>>>> always found that the more marinating, the better. I grilled the
>>>> breasts and tried some, and I can't even taste the chicken, much
>>>> less the smoke!!!! The flavor is so intense that I have to eat
>>>> slices of the breasts in salad to be able to handle them.
>>>>
>>>> What's the opinion here? Am I causing these problems myself, or are
>>>> Raichlen's recipes too zesty for even a zest-lover like myself?
>>>>
>>>> Thanks,
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Desideria
>>> I've never had any problems with his recipes, but understand he does
>>> go all over the world to come up with stuff, so some of the flavors
>>> can be a bit intense.
>>>
>>> I think the key any time you make a new recipe is to follow it to the
>>> letter the first go and then adjust to fit your taste.
>>>
>>> Keep on cooking, you'll develop a style and feel for what works for
>>> you.
>>>
>>> But yes, marinades that stay on too long can be a bit much.
>>>
>>> Take a look at his brined Buccaneer chicken - lost of flavors but not
>>> too overwhelming (in BBQ Bible)
>>>
>>> http://www.bbqu.net/season2/205_4.html
>>>
>>> Or his iced tea chicken:
>>>
>>> http://www.bbqu.net/season2/208_4.html#iced_tea_chicken

>> Found a link for Buccaneer chicken, this seems identical to
>> Raichlen's, but I don't have the book here to do and A/B compariosn.
>>
>> http://tatu-bbq.com/2007/04/08/bucca...-boucanee.aspx
>>
>> Yes, store-bought sugar cane carefully splintered (let it dry out 1st)
>> in the smoke box does some wonderful things.

>
> I think there may be some southern boys here who can elaborate on the finer
> points of cooking with sugar cane, a deep south/cajun technique, apparently.
> IIRC it came up in a discussion about andouille and the best wood to use for
> cooking it, and while pecan was mentioned several times, the sugar cane
> thing came up as well.
>
> However I think the discussion went towards using the cast offs of the sugar
> cane after it had been crushed and processed.... not sure though. Maybe
> someone here will refresh my memory.
>
> MartyB in KC
>


Very interesting.

I like using cane because it imparts a totally unique sweetness to the
smoke. I can't even really comp it to any other wood I've smoked with.
But with chicken the results are just perfect.

This is where Raichlen earns his due from me, finding those unique
regional specialties.
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Default Raichlen's recipes, "How to Grill"


On 1-Jun-2009, Desideria > wrote:

> Y'all know I'm a grilling newbie, and I purchased Steven Raichlen's
> "How to Grill" book because it was my impression that his books are
> highly recommended.
>
> I'll agree that his how-to techniques are helpful. But does anyone
> else find his recipes a bit over-fussed-with?
>
> For instance, the first thing I made with his recipes was hamburgers
> with garlic butter inside, so you've got a fat burger with something
> in the center. Admittedly, my garlic butter was only about
> half-frozen, but when I put them on the grill I had terrible flareups,
> to the point where the outsides were black and the insides were still
> raw--and that was quite a bit after the time that Steven said to cook
> them on each side.
>
> Today I tried his basic (?) chicken breast recipe. Calls for
> sprinkling sea or kosher salt, cracked peppercorns and hot pepper
> flakes on both sides of each breast, then pressing chopped garlic and
> chopped rosemary onto each, then marinating them for 30 to 60 minutes
> in lemon juice and olive oil.
>
> Again, I made a mistake in cooking them today instead of yesterday, so
> they marinated for a bit less than 24 hours--but until now, I always
> found that the more marinating, the better. I grilled the breasts and
> tried some, and I can't even taste the chicken, much less the
> smoke!!!! The flavor is so intense that I have to eat slices of the
> breasts in salad to be able to handle them.
>
> What's the opinion here? Am I causing these problems myself, or are
> Raichlen's recipes too zesty for even a zest-lover like myself?
>
> Thanks,
>
>
> Desideria


By the time I read to the bottom of this thread I was screaming for
people to pay attention to snipping material errelevant to their reply.
That said, I don't use any of Raichlen's books and for sure the
garlic butter stuffed burger sounds idiotic, but your experience would
indicate way to much fire for that burger. I personally would use
another burger recipe rather then change a fire I know how to manage.

The marinated chicken came out like it did because like Marty said,
the citrus marinade used was way to strong for overnight soaking.
Hound's brine would have been much better for that application and
even then I'd either tone down the citrus in the brine or soak it for a
shorter period of time. I've used Hounds explicit recipe overnight and
found it to be way to potent for my taste.I have toned it down by using
bottled citrus and I liked it very well. TFM's brine is fine as is, but
it's
not a strong citrus brine like Hound's.

Brined/Marinated birds aren't better or worse, just different.

--
Brick WA7ERO (Youth is wasted on young people)


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Default Raichlen's recipes, "How to Grill"

On Wed, 3 Jun 2009 21:59:12 GMT, "Brick" >
wrote:

>
>On 1-Jun-2009, Desideria > wrote:
>
>> Y'all know I'm a grilling newbie, and I purchased Steven Raichlen's
>> "How to Grill" book because it was my impression that his books are
>> highly recommended.
>>
>> I'll agree that his how-to techniques are helpful. But does anyone
>> else find his recipes a bit over-fussed-with?
>>
>> For instance, the first thing I made with his recipes was hamburgers
>> with garlic butter inside, so you've got a fat burger with something
>> in the center. Admittedly, my garlic butter was only about
>> half-frozen, but when I put them on the grill I had terrible flareups,
>> to the point where the outsides were black and the insides were still
>> raw--and that was quite a bit after the time that Steven said to cook
>> them on each side.
>>
>> Today I tried his basic (?) chicken breast recipe. Calls for
>> sprinkling sea or kosher salt, cracked peppercorns and hot pepper
>> flakes on both sides of each breast, then pressing chopped garlic and
>> chopped rosemary onto each, then marinating them for 30 to 60 minutes
>> in lemon juice and olive oil.
>>
>> Again, I made a mistake in cooking them today instead of yesterday, so
>> they marinated for a bit less than 24 hours--but until now, I always
>> found that the more marinating, the better. I grilled the breasts and
>> tried some, and I can't even taste the chicken, much less the
>> smoke!!!! The flavor is so intense that I have to eat slices of the
>> breasts in salad to be able to handle them.
>>
>> What's the opinion here? Am I causing these problems myself, or are
>> Raichlen's recipes too zesty for even a zest-lover like myself?
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>>
>> Desideria

>
>By the time I read to the bottom of this thread I was screaming for
>people to pay attention to snipping material errelevant to their reply.
>That said, I don't use any of Raichlen's books and for sure the
>garlic butter stuffed burger sounds idiotic, but your experience would
>indicate way to much fire for that burger. I personally would use
>another burger recipe rather then change a fire I know how to manage.
>
>The marinated chicken came out like it did because like Marty said,
>the citrus marinade used was way to strong for overnight soaking.
>Hound's brine would have been much better for that application and
>even then I'd either tone down the citrus in the brine or soak it for a
>shorter period of time. I've used Hounds explicit recipe overnight and
>found it to be way to potent for my taste.I have toned it down by using
>bottled citrus and I liked it very well. TFM's brine is fine as is, but
>it's
>not a strong citrus brine like Hound's.
>
>Brined/Marinated birds aren't better or worse, just different.


Agreed, and I apologize for my share in the non-snippage. I've been
doing Usenet while keeping ice on--15 minutes on each arm and one arm
at a time--which means that I have trouble snipping, but I'll try to
change that plan.

I agree on the marinade being used too long, but even without it,
there was just too much with the salt, cracked peppercorns and hot
pepper flakes on the chicken. At least for me that's too much.


Desideria
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Default Raichlen's recipes, "How to Grill"


On 3-Jun-2009, Desideria > wrote:

> On Wed, 3 Jun 2009 21:59:12 GMT, "Brick" >
> wrote:
>
> >
> >On 1-Jun-2009, Desideria > wrote:


.. . .

>
> I agree on the marinade being used too long, but even without it,
> there was just too much with the salt, cracked peppercorns and hot
> pepper flakes on the chicken. At least for me that's too much.
>
>
> Desideria


Here is the Hound's brine in case you want to experiment.

my citrus brine (thieved by Emeril):
------------------------------------------------
2 gallons water
2 cups Kosher salt
3/4 cup brown sugar, lightly packed
Juice of 3 oranges
" " " limes
" " " lemons
rinds from same
1 sliced white onion
! head of garlic, crushed
most of a bunch of cilantro, chopped
Serranos to taste, minimum 4
Rough ground cumin and coriander 2 T ea.
½ cup extra virgin olive oil
1/4 cup chili powder or any ground chile you prefer
[1/4 cup onion powder] optional
[1/4 cup garlic powder] optional

Either way, soak bird for at least a day as much as 3. I use a Gott 5 gal
bev cooler. Use an 8 lb bag of ice in place of 1 gal water.

Place only aromatics in cavity...bay leaves, garlic heads, apples, citrus,
rosemary stems. I like to place orange slices between skin and meat.

Smoke ass end towards fire for 45 minutes/lb @ 225. You can rotate as
charring necessitates. This will result in inedible skin. If you like skin,
cook @ 300ish. A bigger bird is a higher bird which means the top of the
bird will cook at a higher temp. Keep this in mind. Your first bird should
be a 14 lber.

-Cuchulain Libby (Deceased)
ICQ 83719527


--
Brick WA7ERO (Youth is wasted on young people)
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Default Raichlen's recipes, "How to Grill"

On Thu, 4 Jun 2009 05:30:03 GMT, "Brick" >
wrote:

>
>On 3-Jun-2009, Desideria > wrote:
>
>> On Wed, 3 Jun 2009 21:59:12 GMT, "Brick" >
>> wrote:
>>
>> >
>> >On 1-Jun-2009, Desideria > wrote:

>
>. . .
>
>>
>> I agree on the marinade being used too long, but even without it,
>> there was just too much with the salt, cracked peppercorns and hot
>> pepper flakes on the chicken. At least for me that's too much.
>>
>>
>> Desideria

>
>Here is the Hound's brine in case you want to experiment.
>
>my citrus brine (thieved by Emeril):
>------------------------------------------------
>2 gallons water
>2 cups Kosher salt
>3/4 cup brown sugar, lightly packed
>Juice of 3 oranges
>" " " limes
>" " " lemons
>rinds from same
>1 sliced white onion
>! head of garlic, crushed
>most of a bunch of cilantro, chopped
>Serranos to taste, minimum 4
>Rough ground cumin and coriander 2 T ea.
>½ cup extra virgin olive oil
>1/4 cup chili powder or any ground chile you prefer
>[1/4 cup onion powder] optional
>[1/4 cup garlic powder] optional
>
>Either way, soak bird for at least a day as much as 3. I use a Gott 5 gal
>bev cooler. Use an 8 lb bag of ice in place of 1 gal water.
>
>Place only aromatics in cavity...bay leaves, garlic heads, apples, citrus,
>rosemary stems. I like to place orange slices between skin and meat.
>
>Smoke ass end towards fire for 45 minutes/lb @ 225. You can rotate as
>charring necessitates. This will result in inedible skin. If you like skin,
>cook @ 300ish. A bigger bird is a higher bird which means the top of the
>bird will cook at a higher temp. Keep this in mind. Your first bird should
>be a 14 lber.
>
>-Cuchulain Libby (Deceased)
>ICQ 83719527


Thanks, Brick!!!

I'll ignore the smoking directions, as I'm a griller and not a smoker.
I really appreciate the brine recipe though!


Desideria
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Default Raichlen's recipes, "How to Grill"


On 4-Jun-2009, Desideria > wrote:

> On Thu, 4 Jun 2009 05:30:03 GMT, "Brick" >
> wrote:
>
> >
> >On 3-Jun-2009, Desideria > wrote:
> >
> >> On Wed, 3 Jun 2009 21:59:12 GMT, "Brick" >
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >> >
> >> >On 1-Jun-2009, Desideria > wrote:

> >
> >. . .
> >
> >>
> >> I agree on the marinade being used too long, but even without it,
> >> there was just too much with the salt, cracked peppercorns and hot
> >> pepper flakes on the chicken. At least for me that's too much.
> >>
> >>
> >> Desideria

> >
> >Here is the Hound's brine in case you want to experiment.
> >
> >my citrus brine (thieved by Emeril):
> >------------------------------------------------
> >2 gallons water
> >2 cups Kosher salt
> >3/4 cup brown sugar, lightly packed
> >Juice of 3 oranges
> >" " " limes
> >" " " lemons
> >rinds from same
> >1 sliced white onion
> >! head of garlic, crushed
> >most of a bunch of cilantro, chopped
> >Serranos to taste, minimum 4
> >Rough ground cumin and coriander 2 T ea.
> >½ cup extra virgin olive oil
> >1/4 cup chili powder or any ground chile you prefer
> >[1/4 cup onion powder] optional
> >[1/4 cup garlic powder] optional
> >
> >Either way, soak bird for at least a day as much as 3. I use a Gott 5
> >gal
> >bev cooler. Use an 8 lb bag of ice in place of 1 gal water.
> >
> >Place only aromatics in cavity...bay leaves, garlic heads, apples,
> >citrus,
> >rosemary stems. I like to place orange slices between skin and meat.
> >
> >Smoke ass end towards fire for 45 minutes/lb @ 225. You can rotate as
> >charring necessitates. This will result in inedible skin. If you like
> >skin,
> >cook @ 300ish. A bigger bird is a higher bird which means the top of the
> >bird will cook at a higher temp. Keep this in mind. Your first bird
> >should
> >be a 14 lber.
> >
> >-Cuchulain Libby (Deceased)
> >ICQ 83719527

>
> Thanks, Brick!!!
>
> I'll ignore the smoking directions, as I'm a griller and not a smoker.
> I really appreciate the brine recipe though!
>
>
> Desideria


You're welcome. And the brine is equally applicable to the grill as
to the smoker. As a plus, you'll get a better skin on the grill then
anybody ever will in a smoker.

--
Brick WA7ERO (Youth is wasted on young people)
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