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Barbecue (alt.food.barbecue) Discuss barbecue and grilling--southern style "low and slow" smoking of ribs, shoulders and briskets, as well as direct heat grilling of everything from burgers to salmon to vegetables. |
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Well, you learn something new every day - long
We are supposed to have Chamber of Commerce weather here this whole
weekend, clear skies and mid 70s as highs. Wow... 10 - 15 degrees cooler than it has been. So down to Sam's I go to get a brisket. All of them look lousy. Small little things of about 11 - 14 lbs, and all misshapen and cut strangely. I am not sure what happened to them as they all seemed to have an ugly problem, and that is the flats were less than 1/2" at the tips. Called the butcher over, and he cheerfully brought over a new case of briskets after marking them. But, they were just more of the same. He allowed they were pretty bad, and no good for the pit. He then told me they had seven pallets of them to get rid of, and he was pretty sure they were all the same. At $1.39 a pound, I wanted something a lot better than that. So I asked him how the chuck rolls looked. "Awesome", he says. Let me get a fresh case and we'll take a look. He brought out some really big hunks of meat, an fortunately, the smallest one looked the best to me. The one I was looking at was 22#, but he had a 26# and 27+# in there! Eyeballing that lovely looking piece of meat, I mentioned that I was going to cook it on my smoker, and I needed to make sure that it fit on the WSM. So I asked him (rather than to just cut it like I usually do) if he had any suggestions on how to best cut it up since I knew I might have to trim it to fit. Sure he said, cut the rib eyes off. (Here's where the learning part starts.) Cut the rib eyes off? On a chuck roll? A little history here. This guy is someone that has been cutting meat for about 10 years and is a union certified and trained butcher. He actually butchered and "merchandised" meat for Albertsons for 8 of those while they were in San Antonio. He is now working at Sam's as he couldn't find work anywhere else that would pay him what he wanted and keep him here. On to the merchandising part. He showed me on the chuck roll how to orient it to see the rib eye steak cuts on the roll. When he worked at Albertson's, these were cut off and sold as rib eye steaks. In fact, he told me that when I came into the store and asked them to cut me some fat rib eyes, they go back and find a big chuck roll and cut them off that, then reseal and reprice the remaining piece. For some reason, he thought I should have known this.... He showed me how to watch the grain when I am cutting, and even how to know when to stop. His eyeball estimation on the 22# chuck roll was that I could cut about 3 - (maybe) 4 pounds of rib eyes off them piece. He showed me the approximate place to stop cutting. Oh boy! Rib eyes for $1.98 a pound! He got a real bang out of how much I appreciated the heads up. I told him I have a small commercial vacuum sealer and I always come in and buy their pork loins, turkeys, etc, and cut them up and freeze them in pieces. Well, since you can do that he said, have you ever wondered where the boneless beef ribs come from? Sure... where? He pointed to the other end of the roll. You can cut two pieces off this around 1 1/4 - 1/2" thick off this side. He assured me that once I cut it, I would recognize the cut of the meat immediately as boneless ribs. Here's were merchandising and education mix. He told me that when he was at Albertson's, their union school had trained them to cut meat to maximize the dollars per pound on any cut. Makes sense to me. So he put the roll in the case, and showed me how they cut the whole thing up for sale, since they didn't sell chuck rolls when he was at Albertson's. They cut the rib eyes off one side, the boneless ribs off the other. This left a big hunk of meat in the center. They then cut that one in half or thirds (about 2" thick or so) and sold them as "California Chuck Rolls" and added another .50 - $1 a pound to the normal chuck price for the "California" moniker. He told me he didn't feel bad though as that would give one of the best chuck roasts you could get. So, according to this man, I have been missing the boat. For $1.98 a pound for certified "choice" beef, I can get $8.95 ($10.95 or more at our local super) a pound rib eyes, $3.99 boneless ribs, and $3.29 chuck roast (no California). Wow, what a savings! And what a great guy. He told me that next time I wanted a chuck roll to just find him, and he would help me learn how to pick out one that would yield the best cuts. I can't wait to try this out. I will cut this up tomorrow as I want the big piece of chuck (15 - 16#) on late evening so I we can eat it Sunday sometime. If anyone is interested, I will post results. Hope this inspires someone as much as it did me. Robert |
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Well, you learn something new every day - long
" > wrote:
> [ . . . ] Tres KEWL, Robert! Nothing like befriending a well-trained butcher, eh? Did you invite him over (don't forget the brews)? -- Nick. Support severely wounded and disabled Veterans and their families! I've known US vets who served as far back as the Spanish American War. They are all my heroes! Thank a Veteran and Support Our Troops. You are not forgotten. Thanks ! ! ~Semper Fi~ |
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Well, you learn something new every day - long
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Well, you learn something new every day - long
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Well, you learn something new every day - long
Interested.
-Zz |
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Well, you learn something new every day - long
" > wrote:
> Here's were merchandising and education mix. He told me that when he > was at Albertson's, their union school had trained them to cut meat to > maximize the dollars per pound on any cut. Makes sense to me. So he > put the roll in the case, and showed me how they cut the whole thing > up for sale, since they didn't sell chuck rolls when he was at > Albertson's. They cut the rib eyes off one side, the boneless ribs > off the other. This left a big hunk of meat in the center. This guy oughta be chained to a tree and flogged repeatedly. 'Chuck eyes' are what he's passing off as ribeyes. They are a good value, but they're not rib-eyes. The chuck eye is an extension of several muscles from the rib[eye] section, but it's not rib - it's *chuck*, and to pass it off as ribeyes is very illegal. And "Boneless ribs" aren't really a cut of meat, but just various pieces of chuck. They're the "country style ribs" of beef. > So, according to this man, I have been missing the boat. Meat cutters aren't the most scrupulous batch of people on earth, and the only boat he's describing is the one that transports gullible consumers. -sw |
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Well, you learn something new every day - long
motley me > wrote:
> Very interested. Some pics would be helpful as well. > Thanks for the heads up. Sounds like a trip to sams's is in order. The chuck rolls and cheek meat have been the only thing at Sam's that has ever interested me. And I can't justify the membership for just those 2 items, preferring to stick to Costco. -sw |
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Well, you learn something new every day - long
-- > > The chuck rolls and cheek meat have been the only thing at Sam's > that has ever interested me. And I can't justify the membership for > just those 2 items, preferring to stick to Costco. > > -sw Warehouse snob! Spud |
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Well, you learn something new every day - long
Spud > wrote:
>> The chuck rolls and cheek meat have been the only thing at Sam's >> that has ever interested me. And I can't justify the membership for >> just those 2 items, preferring to stick to Costco. >> >> -sw > > Warehouse snob! I'm a very devoted CostCo customer. Sam's is Evil. But you have to give Sam's some credit: who else could manage to get their "Enhanced With" solution in the shrimp and scallops up to a whopping 25%? Sam's beats Costco in that regards - 25 to Zero. -sw |
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Well, you learn something new every day - long
On Apr 12, 8:34 am, Sqwertz > wrote:
> Meat cutters aren't the most scrupulous batch of people on earth, > and the only boat he's describing is the one that transports > gullible consumers. I have to agree with you there. I also know that they have additional latitude to literally make up names for pieces of meat depending on how it is cut up for "merchandising" purposes. The "boneless ribs" and the "California Chuck Roast" were great examples from him. What a load of hooey. BUT, this isn't any different than taking a pork butt, slicing it, and calling it some kind of "country style" rib. In what "country" is the butt part off a rib section? On another barbecue site they posted a bulletin from (I believe) the American Beef Council that they had found new way to cut up a certain area of the cow to help merchandise the meat. They reasoned that the meat was of different texture and fat content now than it was when they originally detailed out the standard butcher's diagram. So now, from the same cow, we have two "new" different cuts of meat, which of course, are more expensive. That all started with "hey, I was in the store and saw this cut, what in the world is it?" No one had even heard of it. But there were a couple of butchers on the group, and once they quit laughing they filled in the rest of us. I had never thought of it, but he said there have been many "new" cuts of meat introduced over the years. He ticked off a few, but I don't remember them. Interesting, though. Robert |
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Well, you learn something new every day - long
Sqwertz wrote:
> " > wrote: > >> Here's were merchandising and education mix. He told me that when he >> was at Albertson's, their union school had trained them to cut meat to >> maximize the dollars per pound on any cut. Makes sense to me. So he >> put the roll in the case, and showed me how they cut the whole thing >> up for sale, since they didn't sell chuck rolls when he was at >> Albertson's. They cut the rib eyes off one side, the boneless ribs >> off the other. This left a big hunk of meat in the center. > > This guy oughta be chained to a tree and flogged repeatedly. > > 'Chuck eyes' are what he's passing off as ribeyes. They are a good > value, but they're not rib-eyes. The chuck eye is an extension of > several muscles from the rib[eye] section, but it's not rib - it's > *chuck*, and to pass it off as ribeyes is very illegal. > > And "Boneless ribs" aren't really a cut of meat, but just various > pieces of chuck. They're the "country style ribs" of beef. > >> So, according to this man, I have been missing the boat. > > Meat cutters aren't the most scrupulous batch of people on earth, > and the only boat he's describing is the one that transports > gullible consumers. > > -sw Here's a nice butcher chart from the Angus Beef folks http://www.angus.org/pubs/beefchart.pdf I don't see any ribeyes from the chuck area... /dave a |
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Well, you learn something new every day - long
" > wrote:
> On another barbecue site they posted a bulletin from (I believe) the > American Beef Council that they had found new way to cut up a certain > area of the cow to help merchandise the meat. They reasoned that the > meat was of different texture and fat content now than it was when > they originally detailed out the standard butcher's diagram. So now, > from the same cow, we have two "new" different cuts of meat, which of > course, are more expensive. They introduced a few new "value cuts" sometime at the beginning of this decade. I don't think they made the official USDA IMPS beef standards guides but they probably did make the NAMP guides (since they're into marketing more). That was done to help market the various muscles in the chuck to maximize profits - just as you described in your OP. Supposedly that had spent millions of dollars on this study to "identify" these muscles, but in reality they'd been known about for a century or more. The money spent was just an advertising campaign to let us know they're jacking up the price of certain parts of the chuck (and round). Chuck eye is a great piece of beef: http://i26.tinypic.com/w6z4ed.jpg http://i27.tinypic.com/4h5ac8.jpg I think chuck eye had been around long before these new "value cuts". I think it's as good a ribeye since it has a much smaller portion of the longissimis muscle and more of the cap/flap muscles makeing for a better texture. But I'd certainly know if somebody tried to pass off a chuck eye as a boneless ribeye. Most people woulnd't. -sw |
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Well, you learn something new every day - long
dave a > wrote:
> Here's a nice butcher chart from the Angus Beef folks > > http://www.angus.org/pubs/beefchart.pdf That diagram shows some of those newish "value cuts". The IMPS specifications are much more in depth, http://sqwertzme.googlepages.com/usdaimps but it doesn't list many of the unofficial names you'll see on packages in the stores. For that you'd need the NAMPS manual, which isn't available online anymore (if somebody has an electronic then send me a copy ;-) > I don't see any ribeyes from the chuck area... But you'll at least see a resemblance to a ribeye and chuck eye. -sw |
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Well, you learn something new every day - long
On Apr 12, 9:49 am, dave a > wrote:
> > Here's a nice butcher chart from the Angus Beef folks > > http://www.angus.org/pubs/beefchart.pdf > > I don't see any ribeyes from the chuck area... Hey... thanks for the chart, Dave! I looked around before my original posting, but couldn't find one that detailed. If you expand the chart size you can easily see that panel that has the names of the cuts (second group of six on the upper left hand side) that shows the cuts that come from the "rib" area. According to the large graphic chart, it <<immediately>> adjoins the "chuck" area. In the six tabbed panels, look for the one marked "rib' for the cuts from the "rib" area. On the lower set of panels in the middle is the ribeye steak. On the stretchout diagram in the upper right hand corner, you can see that the the area of the carcass that adjoin labeled as A2 and B1 show the chuck area and the area ribeyes would come from to be connected. This also supports Steve's observation that the chuck eye and the rib eye areas are connected. So what we may have here is some overlap. I have cut up a lot of game, and certainly assisted in more. It is easy to me to see how one cut can overlap onto another. Who here doesn't remember how ****ed off you made folks when you cut your first deer or pig up incorrectly? There aren't cut lines on the animal, and every one is different. This reminds me that meat cutting is an inexact science. (If you want further proof of this, you should see my SO cut up a chicken! I see new parts every time she does it, and I try to guess which part of the bird they came from.) And remember, the butcher only told me that I would get 3 or 4 steaks off the <exact> piece he had in his hands, not a lot of them. That may suggest some kind of overlap in the actual butchered piece itself. He showed me two others that didn't have that much of the area on the side he told me the rib eyes came from, and told me that if I wanted the steaks, I should buy the one he picked. As for the "boneless beef ribs", it was exactly as he told me. Nothing but merchandising. It looks to me to be some cut with some marbling they labeled differently to squeeze a few more bucks out of that area. Thanks for the chart! Saved for future reference. Robert |
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Well, you learn something new every day - long
Sqwertz > wrote in news:120408.093544afb19.750
@sqwertz.com: > motley me > wrote: > >> Very interested. Some pics would be helpful as well. >> Thanks for the heads up. Sounds like a trip to sams's is in order. > > The chuck rolls and cheek meat have been the only thing at Sam's > that has ever interested me. And I can't justify the membership for > just those 2 items, preferring to stick to Costco. > > -sw We don't have a costco close by. I use sams for some things, but like everywhere you have to watch their prices. Sometimes I can walk 30 yards up the street to Walmart and get the same item cheaper. -- Tommy Lee |
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Well, you learn something new every day - long
Nick Cramer > wrote:
> Sqwertz > wrote: >> dave a > wrote: >> [] >> The IMPS specifications are much more in depth, >> >> http://sqwertzme.googlepages.com/usdaimps > [] > > Good pdf. Thanks, Steve. I put it right up there next to your Thai cookbook: http://sqwertzme.googlepages.com/junthai.htm I moved it from Geocities.com, but it's still both places for now. You might want to bookmark this link, too. -sw |
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Well, you learn something new every day - long
Sqwertz wrote:
> dave a > wrote: > > >>Here's a nice butcher chart from the Angus Beef folks >> >>http://www.angus.org/pubs/beefchart.pdf > > > That diagram shows some of those newish "value cuts". > > The IMPS specifications are much more in depth, > > http://sqwertzme.googlepages.com/usdaimps > Wow. I've been looking for an online version since my old link went > /dev/null. You da man. |
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Well, you learn something new every day - long
RegForte > wrote:
> Sqwertz wrote: > >> dave a > wrote: >> >>>Here's a nice butcher chart from the Angus Beef folks >>> >>>http://www.angus.org/pubs/beefchart.pdf >> >> That diagram shows some of those newish "value cuts". >> >> The IMPS specifications are much more in depth, >> >> http://sqwertzme.googlepages.com/usdaimps >> > > Wow. I've been looking for an online version since > my old link went > /dev/null. I've always had a bitch of a time finding it online so I posted it there. Hopefully it will last a while at that link. Now if I could only get the NAMP book that you led me to one time, but they took it offline, probably for copyright issues. -sw |
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