We are supposed to have Chamber of Commerce weather here this whole
weekend, clear skies and mid 70s as highs. Wow... 10 - 15 degrees
cooler than it has been. So down to Sam's I go to get a brisket.

All of them look lousy. Small little things of about 11 - 14 lbs, and
all misshapen and cut strangely. I am not sure what happened to them
as they all seemed to have an ugly problem, and that is the flats
were less than 1/2" at the tips.

Called the butcher over, and he cheerfully brought over a new case of
briskets after marking them. But, they were just more of the same.
He allowed they were pretty bad, and no good for the pit. He then
told me they had seven pallets of them to get rid of, and he was
pretty sure they were all the same. At $1.39 a pound, I wanted
something a lot better than that.

So I asked him how the chuck rolls looked. "Awesome", he says. Let
me get a fresh case and we'll take a look. He brought out some really
big hunks of meat, an fortunately, the smallest one looked the best to
me. The one I was looking at was 22#, but he had a 26# and 27+# in
there!

Eyeballing that lovely looking piece of meat, I mentioned that I was
going to cook it on my smoker, and I needed to make sure that it fit
on the WSM. So I asked him (rather than to just cut it like I usually
do) if he had any suggestions on how to best cut it up since I knew I
might have to trim it to fit.

Sure he said, cut the rib eyes off.

(Here's where the learning part starts.)

Cut the rib eyes off? On a chuck roll?

A little history here. This guy is someone that has been cutting meat
for about 10 years and is a union certified and trained butcher. He
actually butchered and "merchandised" meat for Albertsons for 8 of
those while they were in San Antonio. He is now working at Sam's as
he couldn't find work anywhere else that would pay him what he wanted
and keep him here. On to the merchandising part.

He showed me on the chuck roll how to orient it to see the rib eye
steak cuts on the roll. When he worked at Albertson's, these were cut
off and sold as rib eye steaks. In fact, he told me that when I came
into the store and asked them to cut me some fat rib eyes, they go
back and find a big chuck roll and cut them off that, then reseal and
reprice the remaining piece. For some reason, he thought I should
have known this....

He showed me how to watch the grain when I am cutting, and even how to
know when to stop. His eyeball estimation on the 22# chuck roll was
that I could cut about 3 - (maybe) 4 pounds of rib eyes off them
piece. He showed me the approximate place to stop cutting. Oh boy!
Rib eyes for $1.98 a pound!

He got a real bang out of how much I appreciated the heads up. I told
him I have a small commercial vacuum sealer and I always come in and
buy their pork loins, turkeys, etc, and cut them up and freeze them in
pieces. Well, since you can do that he said, have you ever wondered
where the boneless beef ribs come from?

Sure... where? He pointed to the other end of the roll. You can cut
two pieces off this around 1 1/4 - 1/2" thick off this side. He
assured me that once I cut it, I would recognize the cut of the meat
immediately as boneless ribs.

Here's were merchandising and education mix. He told me that when he
was at Albertson's, their union school had trained them to cut meat to
maximize the dollars per pound on any cut. Makes sense to me. So he
put the roll in the case, and showed me how they cut the whole thing
up for sale, since they didn't sell chuck rolls when he was at
Albertson's. They cut the rib eyes off one side, the boneless ribs
off the other. This left a big hunk of meat in the center.

They then cut that one in half or thirds (about 2" thick or so) and
sold them as "California Chuck Rolls" and added another .50 - $1 a
pound to the normal chuck price for the "California" moniker. He told
me he didn't feel bad though as that would give one of the best chuck
roasts you could get.

So, according to this man, I have been missing the boat. For $1.98 a
pound for certified "choice" beef, I can get $8.95 ($10.95 or more at
our local super) a pound rib eyes, $3.99 boneless ribs, and $3.29
chuck roast (no California). Wow, what a savings!

And what a great guy. He told me that next time I wanted a chuck roll
to just find him, and he would help me learn how to pick out one that
would yield the best cuts.

I can't wait to try this out. I will cut this up tomorrow as I want
the big piece of chuck (15 - 16#) on late evening so I we can eat it
Sunday sometime.

If anyone is interested, I will post results.

Hope this inspires someone as much as it did me.

Robert

" > wrote:
> [ . . . ]

Tres KEWL, Robert! Nothing like befriending a well-trained butcher, eh? Did
you invite him over (don't forget the brews)?

--
Nick. Support severely wounded and disabled Veterans and their families!
I've known US vets who served as far back as the Spanish American War. They
are all my heroes! Thank a Veteran and Support Our Troops. You are not
forgotten. Thanks ! ! ~Semper Fi~

" > wrote in news:aee53409-
:

> f anyone is interested, I will post results.
>
> Hope this inspires someone as much as it did me.
>
> Robert
>
>

Very interested. Some pics would be helpful as well.
Thanks for the heads up. Sounds like a trip to sams's is in order.

--
Tommy Lee

wrote:

<snip very good read>
>
> Robert
>

Very informational. I wasn't aware how much markup there was on a
chuck roll or the cuts of meat. I just thought chuck whatever. I've seen
them at a Cash & Carry store but was a little intimidated to try one.
I'm interested in your results, thanks-

Brian

Interested.

-Zz

" > wrote:

> Here's were merchandising and education mix. He told me that when he
> was at Albertson's, their union school had trained them to cut meat to
> maximize the dollars per pound on any cut. Makes sense to me. So he
> put the roll in the case, and showed me how they cut the whole thing
> up for sale, since they didn't sell chuck rolls when he was at
> Albertson's. They cut the rib eyes off one side, the boneless ribs
> off the other. This left a big hunk of meat in the center.

This guy oughta be chained to a tree and flogged repeatedly.

'Chuck eyes' are what he's passing off as ribeyes. They are a good
value, but they're not rib-eyes. The chuck eye is an extension of
several muscles from the rib[eye] section, but it's not rib - it's
*chuck*, and to pass it off as ribeyes is very illegal.

And "Boneless ribs" aren't really a cut of meat, but just various
pieces of chuck. They're the "country style ribs" of beef.

> So, according to this man, I have been missing the boat.

Meat cutters aren't the most scrupulous batch of people on earth,
and the only boat he's describing is the one that transports
gullible consumers.

-sw

motley me > wrote:

> Very interested. Some pics would be helpful as well.
> Thanks for the heads up. Sounds like a trip to sams's is in order.

The chuck rolls and cheek meat have been the only thing at Sam's
that has ever interested me. And I can't justify the membership for
just those 2 items, preferring to stick to Costco.

-sw

--

>
> The chuck rolls and cheek meat have been the only thing at Sam's
> that has ever interested me. And I can't justify the membership for
> just those 2 items, preferring to stick to Costco.
>
> -sw


Warehouse snob!

Spud

Spud > wrote:

>> The chuck rolls and cheek meat have been the only thing at Sam's
>> that has ever interested me. And I can't justify the membership for
>> just those 2 items, preferring to stick to Costco.
>>
>> -sw
>
> Warehouse snob!

I'm a very devoted CostCo customer. Sam's is Evil.

But you have to give Sam's some credit: who else could manage to get
their "Enhanced With" solution in the shrimp and scallops up to a
whopping 25%? Sam's beats Costco in that regards - 25 to Zero.

-sw

On Apr 12, 8:34 am, Sqwertz > wrote:

> Meat cutters aren't the most scrupulous batch of people on earth,
> and the only boat he's describing is the one that transports
> gullible consumers.

I have to agree with you there. I also know that they have
additional latitude to literally make up names for pieces of meat
depending on how it is cut up for "merchandising" purposes.

The "boneless ribs" and the "California Chuck Roast" were great
examples from him. What a load of hooey.
BUT, this isn't any different than taking a pork butt, slicing it, and
calling it some kind of "country style" rib. In what "country" is the
butt part off a rib section?

On another barbecue site they posted a bulletin from (I believe) the
American Beef Council that they had found new way to cut up a certain
area of the cow to help merchandise the meat. They reasoned that the
meat was of different texture and fat content now than it was when
they originally detailed out the standard butcher's diagram. So now,
from the same cow, we have two "new" different cuts of meat, which of
course, are more expensive.

That all started with "hey, I was in the store and saw this cut, what
in the world is it?" No one had even heard of it. But there were a
couple of butchers on the group, and once they quit laughing they
filled in the rest of us. I had never thought of it, but he said
there have been many "new" cuts of meat introduced over the years. He
ticked off a few, but I don't remember them.

Interesting, though.

Robert

Sqwertz wrote:
> " > wrote:
>
>> Here's were merchandising and education mix. He told me that when he
>> was at Albertson's, their union school had trained them to cut meat to
>> maximize the dollars per pound on any cut. Makes sense to me. So he
>> put the roll in the case, and showed me how they cut the whole thing
>> up for sale, since they didn't sell chuck rolls when he was at
>> Albertson's. They cut the rib eyes off one side, the boneless ribs
>> off the other. This left a big hunk of meat in the center.
>
> This guy oughta be chained to a tree and flogged repeatedly.
>
> 'Chuck eyes' are what he's passing off as ribeyes. They are a good
> value, but they're not rib-eyes. The chuck eye is an extension of
> several muscles from the rib[eye] section, but it's not rib - it's
> *chuck*, and to pass it off as ribeyes is very illegal.
>
> And "Boneless ribs" aren't really a cut of meat, but just various
> pieces of chuck. They're the "country style ribs" of beef.
>
>> So, according to this man, I have been missing the boat.
>
> Meat cutters aren't the most scrupulous batch of people on earth,
> and the only boat he's describing is the one that transports
> gullible consumers.
>
> -sw

Here's a nice butcher chart from the Angus Beef folks

http://www.angus.org/pubs/beefchart.pdf

I don't see any ribeyes from the chuck area...

/dave a

" > wrote:

> On another barbecue site they posted a bulletin from (I believe) the
> American Beef Council that they had found new way to cut up a certain
> area of the cow to help merchandise the meat. They reasoned that the
> meat was of different texture and fat content now than it was when
> they originally detailed out the standard butcher's diagram. So now,
> from the same cow, we have two "new" different cuts of meat, which of
> course, are more expensive.

They introduced a few new "value cuts" sometime at the beginning of
this decade. I don't think they made the official USDA IMPS beef
standards guides but they probably did make the NAMP guides (since
they're into marketing more). That was done to help market the
various muscles in the chuck to maximize profits - just as you
described in your OP.

Supposedly that had spent millions of dollars on this study to
"identify" these muscles, but in reality they'd been known about for
a century or more. The money spent was just an advertising campaign
to let us know they're jacking up the price of certain parts of the
chuck (and round).

Chuck eye is a great piece of beef:

http://i26.tinypic.com/w6z4ed.jpg
http://i27.tinypic.com/4h5ac8.jpg

I think chuck eye had been around long before these new "value
cuts". I think it's as good a ribeye since it has a much smaller
portion of the longissimis muscle and more of the cap/flap muscles
makeing for a better texture.

But I'd certainly know if somebody tried to pass off a chuck eye as
a boneless ribeye. Most people woulnd't.

-sw

dave a > wrote:

> Here's a nice butcher chart from the Angus Beef folks
>
> http://www.angus.org/pubs/beefchart.pdf

That diagram shows some of those newish "value cuts".

The IMPS specifications are much more in depth,

http://sqwertzme.googlepages.com/usdaimps

but it doesn't list many of the unofficial names you'll see on
packages in the stores. For that you'd need the NAMPS manual, which
isn't available online anymore (if somebody has an electronic then
send me a copy ;-)

> I don't see any ribeyes from the chuck area...

But you'll at least see a resemblance to a ribeye and chuck eye.

-sw

On Apr 12, 9:49 am, dave a > wrote:

>
> Here's a nice butcher chart from the Angus Beef folks
>
> http://www.angus.org/pubs/beefchart.pdf
>
> I don't see any ribeyes from the chuck area...


Hey... thanks for the chart, Dave! I looked around before my original
posting, but couldn't find one that detailed.

If you expand the chart size you can easily see that panel that has
the names of the cuts (second group of six on the upper left hand
side) that shows the cuts that come from the "rib" area. According to
the large graphic chart, it <<immediately>> adjoins the "chuck" area.
In the six tabbed panels, look for the one marked "rib' for the cuts
from the "rib" area. On the lower set of panels in the middle is the
ribeye steak.

On the stretchout diagram in the upper right hand corner, you can see
that the the area of the carcass that adjoin labeled as A2 and B1 show
the chuck area and the area ribeyes would come from to be connected.
This also supports Steve's observation that the chuck eye and the rib
eye areas are connected. So what we may have here is some overlap.

I have cut up a lot of game, and certainly assisted in more. It is
easy to me to see how one cut can overlap onto another. Who here
doesn't remember how ****ed off you made folks when you cut your first
deer or pig up incorrectly? There aren't cut lines on the animal, and
every one is different. This reminds me that meat cutting is an
inexact science. (If you want further proof of this, you should see
my SO cut up a chicken! I see new parts every time she does it, and I
try to guess which part of the bird they came from.)

And remember, the butcher only told me that I would get 3 or 4 steaks
off the <exact> piece he had in his hands, not a lot of them. That
may suggest some kind of overlap in the actual butchered piece
itself. He showed me two others that didn't have that much of the
area on the side he told me the rib eyes came from, and told me that
if I wanted the steaks, I should buy the one he picked.

As for the "boneless beef ribs", it was exactly as he told me.
Nothing but merchandising. It looks to me to be some cut with some
marbling they labeled differently to squeeze a few more bucks out of
that area.

Thanks for the chart! Saved for future reference.

Robert

Sqwertz > wrote in news:120408.093544afb19.750
@sqwertz.com:

> motley me > wrote:
>
>> Very interested. Some pics would be helpful as well.
>> Thanks for the heads up. Sounds like a trip to sams's is in order.
>
> The chuck rolls and cheek meat have been the only thing at Sam's
> that has ever interested me. And I can't justify the membership for
> just those 2 items, preferring to stick to Costco.
>
> -sw

We don't have a costco close by. I use sams for some things, but like
everywhere you have to watch their prices. Sometimes I can walk 30 yards up
the street to Walmart and get the same item cheaper.



--
Tommy Lee

Nick Cramer > wrote:

> Sqwertz > wrote:
>> dave a > wrote:
>> []
>> The IMPS specifications are much more in depth,
>>
>> http://sqwertzme.googlepages.com/usdaimps
> []
>
> Good pdf. Thanks, Steve.

I put it right up there next to your Thai cookbook:

http://sqwertzme.googlepages.com/junthai.htm

I moved it from Geocities.com, but it's still both places for now.
You might want to bookmark this link, too.

-sw

Sqwertz wrote:

> dave a > wrote:
>
>
>>Here's a nice butcher chart from the Angus Beef folks
>>
>>http://www.angus.org/pubs/beefchart.pdf
>
>
> That diagram shows some of those newish "value cuts".
>
> The IMPS specifications are much more in depth,
>
> http://sqwertzme.googlepages.com/usdaimps
>


Wow. I've been looking for an online version since
my old link went > /dev/null.

You da man.

RegForte > wrote:

> Sqwertz wrote:
>
>> dave a > wrote:
>>
>>>Here's a nice butcher chart from the Angus Beef folks
>>>
>>>http://www.angus.org/pubs/beefchart.pdf
>>
>> That diagram shows some of those newish "value cuts".
>>
>> The IMPS specifications are much more in depth,
>>
>> http://sqwertzme.googlepages.com/usdaimps
>>
>
> Wow. I've been looking for an online version since
> my old link went > /dev/null.

I've always had a bitch of a time finding it online so I posted it
there. Hopefully it will last a while at that link.

Now if I could only get the NAMP book that you led me to one time,
but they took it offline, probably for copyright issues.

-sw