FoodBanter.com - First butt

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Apologies for the long post. But this was my first experience doing a
butt and I found it surprising how long it took.

A friend wanted to do a superbowl party and we agreed that it would be
great to have some bbq. I'm pretty new to this, but thought it would be
fun to do a butt overnight in the wsm.

I've done loads of ribs, poultry and salmon, but only one overnight
smoke so far (a brisket, which turned out heavenly).

I got a butt (bone in) from a local butcher which was just under 7 1/2
pounds after trimming excess fat. Before putting it into the pit I
covered it with CYM then a somewhat spicy rub (S&P, garlic & onion
powder, paprika & cayenne).

I used a combo of hickory and cherry for smoke wood.

Put the butt in about 11:00 PM, temperature stabilized about 225 (at the
dome) before going to bed.

Just left it alone untiil about 9:30 AM the next morning - the dome
temperature pretty much stayed between 225 to 250, though it did creep
up to around 270 in the wee hours of the morning.

Anyway, at 9:30 the smoker was opened and the butt turned over and
rotated. Inserted a thermometer probe and found that the temp was pretty
low at this point (around 150).

Monitored the internal temperature from that point on: it was pretty
slow coming up, but I've heard it said that "it's done when it's done"
so we left well enough alone and just watched the temp.

At about 1:30 PM it hit about 180, but based on what I read, I thought
we wanted to get this to about 190 or better, so we kept waiting. Funny
thing happened then: the temperature stabilized and actually went down a
degree or two - and stayed this way for about 2 more hours.

I thought we could probably pull it out, but again thought we might as
well wait: we weren't in a hurry for this and at worst I'll have a
learning experience I'll never forget!

Anyway, at some point (I think it was around 3:30 or so) the temperature
started to climb again. It slowly and steadily increased and around 4:30
I took it out of the pit with an internal temperature of 193.

It was a thing of beauty! I let it rest a while then pulled the meat. It
had a very good smoke ring and lovely bark, and the meat was incredibly
tender.

Served it with slaw and buns and two sauces on the side for anyone who
wanted (one vinegar based and one tomato based).

There were about 12 guests and it was devoured except for a small
portion that I specifically put aside right from the get go.

It was a great experience, but I couldn't believe how long it took.

Could I have pulled the butt off earlier or was I right to leave it
alone till it hit a temperature I wanted?

One other question: when the temperature stabilized (and actually
dropped for a bit) I'm guessing that some tissue is breaking down and
that the chemical reaction requires energy (in the form of heat), thus
explaining why the internal temperature actually dropped and would not
increase for a time. Is that correct?

Thanks for any thoughts/advice!

--
Bill

Bill Riel wrote:

> Just left it alone untiil about 9:30 AM the next morning - the dome
> temperature pretty much stayed between 225 to 250, though it did creep
> up to around 270 in the wee hours of the morning.

The dome temperature always reads higher than the temperature at the grill.
It could have been anywhere between 25F to 40F higher than what the meat was
actually being cooked at. So, subtract about 25F from your measured temps,
and you were cooking the butt at 200F or less. At those temps, I would
expect it would take approximately 15-16 hours for the cooking to reach
190+.

> Anyway, at 9:30 the smoker was opened and the butt turned over and
> rotated.

Why did you want to rotate the butt?

> It was a great experience, but I couldn't believe how long it took.

It seems that it was about the right length of time.

> Could I have pulled the butt off earlier or was I right to leave it
> alone till it hit a temperature I wanted?

Pullable pork from butt occurs between 185F and 195F, depending on the
amount of collagen in the hunk o' meat. You have to leave the butt on the
pit until the proper temperature is reached. And every time you open the
lid, it adds time to get the pit back up to temp and for the meat to
re-thermalize.

> One other question: when the temperature stabilized (and actually
> dropped for a bit) I'm guessing that some tissue is breaking down and
> that the chemical reaction requires energy (in the form of heat), thus
> explaining why the internal temperature actually dropped and would not
> increase for a time. Is that correct?

That is usually the case. As the collagen breaks down into liquid around the
probe, it produces a temperature drop until the liquid reaches the same
temperature as the meat.

--
Dave
www.davebbq.com

On Feb 4, 3:00 pm, Bill Riel > wrote:

> Thanks very much for the helpful advice!
>
> I am pretty new at this (but loving it!) and your comments are very much
> appreciated.

Hey, Dave's full of it.

Advice, I mean.

JUST KIDDING DAVE!!

I would take everything Dave said to heart, as it sounds spot on to
me. I have the WSM and absolutely love that thing.

Just a couple of things might help you with the WSM, though. I found
a large dial thermometer (Academy? Home Depot?) that wasn't the no
name brand and bought it for the dome. I carefully drilled the
porcelain dome as close as I could to the grate (about 1" above the
grate still cleared the outside rim) level and installed it This
really makes it sing. It is almost like using an oven. Roughly
allowing an 1.25 to 1.5 hours per pound in pork or beef, I don't even
stick the thermo in the meat until it has been in the cooker for about
3-4 hours.

Sometimes I don't stick in a thermo at all, I just check it with one
when I think it is done with a fork, then verify with the thermo.
Once you learn the WSM, it is almost literally set it and forget it.

As a side experiment over Thanksgiving, I took out the smaller grate,
leaving only the water pan (mine is filled with play sand) and the top
grate. I rubbed the turkey with spices and butter, cranked up the WSM
to 350 degrees. Once I had stable temps, I put the turkey in. It was
like cooking in the oven.

IME, poultry isn't like pig or beef. If you know the accurate weight
and keep the temps steady, you can almost set your clock by the speed
of cooking and when it will be done. This is probably why so many
competitors use the WSM for cooking their chicken in competitions.

Second, go to Academy and get a 14-15" grate for a Smokey Joe for $4,
and put that inside the charcoal ring at cross angles to your charcoal
grate. This will close down the escape holes for any of the smaller
coals as well as still allowing the ash to fall through. I have found
that with this and sand in the pan (instead of water) I can burn as
little as less than a pound of charcoal an hour on a warm S. Texas
day.

Robert

On Feb 4, 4:09 pm, "Brick" > wrote:

> Finally, there is no need to cook butts at a temperature that takes
> longer then 7 or 8 hours to finish. Several folks here, myself included
> cook at 275° to 325° and get excellent BBQ in a lot less time. (Ribs
> in my cooker take about 4 hours usually. I cook them around 250°.)

OK.... you opened this door! I am prepared for all the screaming,
gnashing of teeth, etc., though. Even for the guy that tells me my
barbecue tastes like crap from many miles away!

I never cooked a pork butt until a few years ago. About 7 or 8. They
were hard to find here, and generally looked at in Texas as some kind
of evil conspiracy. It was kinda like this:

"That's an odd lookin' brisket over there in Joe Bob's grill. Whured
he get that thing... is that more elk from his trip?"

"Nope. He said it was pig."

"Pig? Like a ham?"

"Nope. Like a butt."

"A butt? He bought pig ass? What kind of crap is that? If he needed
money for a brisket I could have pitched in on that instead of the
beer. I can't believe he bought some pig's ass to barbecue. You know
this was supposed to be a nice get together and all, I can't believe
he cheesed on the meat. I mean really, if you are going to spend all
this time and effort on a party, why chintz on the meat?"

"Well... he's gettin' touchy about it. He's gettin' a lot of crap
over it. I wouldn't say anything else to him. Evidently his Brother
In Law (followed by eye rolling) made some for him when they visited
him in Tennnessee over the holidays."

"Well crap. I thought we were having sausage and brisket. Not ham.
It isn't Christmas or Easter. Ham. I just wish he had said something
if he needed the money for meat."

************

Well, that may not have happened EXACTLY like that, but it was close.

The good news is that the butt (hey... who knew?... there is another
piece of the pig that isn't ham, bacon or ribs!)
was excellent, and it was served on a grill toasted hoagie roll with
an amber sauce that was thin, sweet, and sour that burned all the way
down.

It was great. At that time, more than 20 years of serious barbecuing
and thought that pork shoulder and butts were only for people that
couldn't afford beef. Thank Gawd I never shared that with another
serious pit guy from the Carolina, Tenn., Kansas City... OK, I'm
just glad I didn't say it to anyone that wasn't from Texas.

I cornered the redeemed pit master off to the side and asked him about
the meat.

Bought it at Sam's he said. Cooked it just like a brisket, the only
thing was that it shrank a helluva lot more, and let off enough grease
to lube the truck for a year.

Inspecting his pit, there was about 1/2" of grease in the bottom of
his smoker, all from a pretty large butt. I decided to risk it. I
went to Sam's and requested a butt, and they actually had two. They
usually had one or two on hand the butcher said, as they restaurants
liked them when making traditional tamales (in which you steam/braise
the meat till it comes apart. We didn't know about "pulled" - we
thought that someone that pulled their pork... well.... you know...).
I went home, and the next day cooked it like a brisket.

Like I cook a brisket that is. Usually temps are somewhere around 300
or so, and my briskets will literally squirt juice. I found that not
only is a butt quite tasty, but a LOT more forgiving than brisket.

Over the years Sam's and even some of the local supermarkets started
to make sure they have a few on hand. They are everywhere now. So
over the years I have experimented a lot with butts and shoulders,
thermometers, time schedules, cuts of pork meat, etc. in addition to
what I know about brisket.

I honestly (nor can my friends) tell a difference in a brisket or
shoulder cooked at 225, 275, or 300. (I am ready for the screaming
now). In fact, when we had a nasty storm blowing in, I cooked a
little 14# brisket on my offset at about 350, and it was great. IIRC,
it was done in something like 8 hours.

I also noticed at the last barbecue cookoff I went to that many of the
teams were unconcerned about all the little details some sweat over.
Some were cooking at 300 - 325 degrees, telling me that the meat
actually did better on the outside of the piece having less time in
the pit to dry out if it hung on the plateau. BTW, they all thought
the "plateau" was much too dainty. They pronounce the meat "stuck" or
"hung" at such and such degrees.

So put the point by the firebox and let 'er rip. If you are focusing
on the end product, I think proper cooking is more of an exercise in
care and patience than temps. I don't sweat each piece of meat when I
am experimenting. One piece may be different from another, but I am at
the pit often enough to learn from my mistakes. I probably burn about
300 - 350 lbs of hardwood charcoal and lump at my house along with
another 150 pounds of wood a year. When the grilling bug gets me, I
burn a lot more.

I go to one of my buddie's houses about three times a week to barbecue
or grill for them. They supply everything including the beer and I
barbecue. Sweet, eh?

Back on the temp commentary, I have a buddy of mine that turns out a
good brisket (some are good, some not so good because of reading his
temp gauge through beer goggles) cooking at 350, 375 degrees.

But the safety and surety factor is there is you stay at the 225 -
250 range. When I do an overnight smoke on the WSM, I don't feel like
I am taking chance at all by leaving the temps in that range. If you
have the time, it's great. You KNOW you will have a kill shot on pig/
beef if you cook it low and slow.

But with a lot of family coming over, I don't want to put a King Kong
18# brisket on Saturday early Saturday morning so I can get it off on
Sunday at noon, burn 30 lbs of charcoal in the offset (the WSM will
not hold a 18 pound butt or brisket) and spend all that time tending.
It is simply too long as I wind up with too many other things to do.

I think you should be bold, buy smaller cuts of meat to play with, and
try different temps and times. This isn't an exact science. Besides,
if the meat dries out, make chili the next day, and with the smoked
flavor you will be a hero!

YMMV.

Robert

"Dave Bugg" > wrote in message
news:hkMpj.4781$bs4.3235@trndny01...
> wrote:
>
>> Hey, Dave's full of it.
>
> <grin> I get that a lot from Jill and the boys.
>
> --
> Dave
> www.davebbq.com
Ah, decidely and with malice aforesaid, do doubt . . . .

Harry

On 5-Feb-2008, " > wrote:

> On Feb 4, 4:09 pm, "Brick" > wrote:
>
>
> > Finally, there is no need to cook butts at a temperature that takes
> > longer then 7 or 8 hours to finish. Several folks here, myself included
> > cook at 275° to 325° and get excellent BBQ in a lot less time. (Ribs
> > in my cooker take about 4 hours usually. I cook them around 250°.)
>
> OK.... you opened this door! I am prepared for all the screaming,
> gnashing of teeth, etc., though. Even for the guy that tells me my
> barbecue tastes like crap from many miles away!

<snip>

>
> But with a lot of family coming over, I don't want to put a King Kong
> 18# brisket on Saturday early Saturday morning so I can get it off on
> Sunday at noon, burn 30 lbs of charcoal in the offset (the WSM will
> not hold a 18 pound butt or brisket) and spend all that time tending.
> It is simply too long as I wind up with too many other things to do.
>
> I think you should be bold, buy smaller cuts of meat to play with, and
> try different temps and times. This isn't an exact science. Besides,
> if the meat dries out, make chili the next day, and with the smoked
> flavor you will be a hero!
>
> YMMV.
>
> Robert

Everything that I said and Nailshooter said, plus: "It's done when it's
done. If you go back and read real careful between the lines of what
Nailshooter said, you'll pick up on the fact that as you go higher in
cooking temperatures, your margin for error on done time goes down.

I cook mostly at about 275°F, but I know that I damn well better
know when it's done and get it the hell out of the pit. Because if
I don't, I'm gonna have a dry as dirt piece of S#$T good only for
stew or chili. (It ain't really all that minute by minute critical, but
you get the idea. Leave it on an extra half hour and you lose tangible
quality.)

--
Brick(Youth is wasted on young people)

frohe wrote:
> Dave Bugg wrote:
>> Keep a log of start
>> times and finish times for various sizes and cuts of meat (ribs,
>> brisket, shoulders, butts, etc) so you remember when to get things
>> going.
>
> Ah, someone else who keeps a cooking diary. Peachy!

:-) It isn't a diary per-say. With the quantities I do, it is more of a
production log.

--
Dave
www.davebbq.com