In article >, ost
says...
> On Tue, 2 Oct 2007 08:40:31 -0700, Dave Bugg wrote:
>
> > Since moisture doesn't penetrate through the skin, I just don't see how
> > basting could keep a bird moist.
>
> The complete Meat Cookbook (page 67) says it's a myth to baste
> any meat. All it does is wash away any seasonings on the meat.
> I heartily agree and never baste except for flavoring the meat
> (never poultry).
>
> But don't tell that to the turkey baster lobby.

Wow - good stuff that I never considered before! I've always basted
turkeys when oven roasting, simply because I thought you were supposed
to do that.

I'll leave the next one alone and see how it turns out.

--
Bill

In article >,
Dana Myers > wrote:

> While I'm not a proponent of strict calorie-counting, it's really
> important to gain an objective sense of portion size. Get a little
> scale (especially one that does tare weight) and start measuring out
> what the "suggested serving" weight is, and get a visual sense of
> what you're eating.
>
A baseball's worth of veggies, a dice's worth of fats, a golfball's
worth of carbs and a deck of card's worth of meat.
Those are sadly only considered portions in a nutritionist's world.
The rest of us call them woefully small.
That's why *I* fall on my face regarding portion control.
monroe(a few bites is enough, right?)

monroe, of course wrote:
> In article >,
> Dana Myers > wrote:
>
>> While I'm not a proponent of strict calorie-counting, it's really
>> important to gain an objective sense of portion size. Get a little
>> scale (especially one that does tare weight) and start measuring out
>> what the "suggested serving" weight is, and get a visual sense of
>> what you're eating.
>>
> A baseball's worth of veggies, a dice's worth of fats, a golfball's
> worth of carbs and a deck of card's worth of meat.
> Those are sadly only considered portions in a nutritionist's world.
> The rest of us call them woefully small.
> That's why *I* fall on my face regarding portion control.
> monroe(a few bites is enough, right?)

I'm not suggesting that one would only eat the suggested
serving, but that one can get an idea what it is. If you
look on the cereal box and it says "Serving size 1oz, 100 calories"
but you pour 3 ounces in your bowl, at least you *know* you're
having 300 calories of cereal per bowl, and maybe don't
have three bowls (which is easier than it sounds).

But, there's a harsh truth underneath it all; if you're
eating more than you're burning, you're going to gain
weight. At some point, portion control is necessary
if you want to manage your weight. What I found useful
was loading-up on low-starch vegetables so I didn't
feel like having seconds and thirds of the high-octane
food.

Dana

On 3-Oct-2007, " > wrote:

> On Oct 2, 10:40 am, "Dave Bugg" > wrote:
>
> > Since moisture doesn't penetrate through the skin, I just >don't see how
> > basting could keep a bird moist. So, I >think this is another
> > ham-slicing tradition.
> > --
> > Davewww.davebbq.com
>
> My job for years has been the Thanksgiving turkey, Christmas turkey,
> or anytime we want smoked turkey. The point being I have cooked a
> truckload over the years using different methods.
>
> I think the basting process is an opportunity to "check on the bird
> for most people that don't have confidence in what they are doing. As
> a kid, we only had turkey once a year, so Mom didn't get much
> practice. After cooking my first few turkeys in the oven (talk about
> "set it, and forget it") I started to think that Mom was puttin' on
> the dog a little by constantly fiddling with the bird while it was
> cooking.
>
> And no wonder an oven cooked bird takes me about 20 minutes a pound,
> and for mom it was as much as 45. She opened up the oven, pulled out
> the rack, uncovered the turkey, basted, covered it back up, put it
> back in and closed the oven door. Wow... she let the heat out of the
> oven every hour like clockwork.
>
> It is easy to see that basting simply cannot work to "keep the meat
> moist" unless you are trying to seal it with greasy drippings or
> oils. Even these would slough off quickly when the bird is cooking.
>
> If the meat is cooking, it is hot, forcing OUT the juices in the
> flesh. With the juices coming out of the meat, how could they reverse
> the flow and absorb any juices? Easy answer - they can't. With the
> bird expulsing juices, it cannot absorb them at the same time.
>
> However... I do baste when baking because it makes my elderly parents
> feel like the bird is being done correctly to their traditions. (When
> it is me and LOML, I don't baste.) And if you truss your bird like I
> do, it is good to hit rear cavity with the dressing sticking out with
> the baste. When it is 30 minutes from finish, I rub the breast with
> butter and put it in a 425 degree oven to brown the breast.
>
> When smoking, I make a wet rub and put it under the skin before
> putting it on the pit. I rub the outside with EVOO and a little dry
> rub for color, and that's all it gets until it is done. They always
> come out with great flavor and really juicy. Smoking a proper turkey
> is about as hard as grilling a good burger.
>
> Robert

I still don't know squat about the subject of basting. I don't even have
a personal 'feeling' about it. I put the question to my oldest sister in
hopes that she might have learned something during her 50 years of
cooking for a family. This is what she said,

"Basting the turkey seals
in the juices, and adds flavor to the skin. Also makes the skin more
crisp. Some people insert spices under the skin with a hypodermic
needle to add more flavor. Basting juices can be used for the gravy."

All I can say about her comments is that they didn't generate an
urge to baste.

--
Brick(Save a tree, eat a Beaver)

"Dave Bugg" > wrote in message
...
> Kent wrote:
>> "Nonnymus" > wrote in message
>> news
>>> Kent wrote:
>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> What effect does the decreased humidity have on what you are
>>>> cooking? I sometimes use water when roasting a turkey indirectly. I
>>>> can't tell that it adds
>>>> anything.
>>>>
>>> IMHO, water in the cooking chamber adds virtually nothing that I can
>>> tell. I also can't taste any flavorings that liquids in the cooking
>>> chamber might add, such as an orange in the water or onion. Perhaps
>>> it's my taster, but I've never been able to notice any difference.
>>>
>>> Nonny
>>> --
>>> I guess what I'm trying to decide is whether you need to
>>> bake-smoke-roast in a high humidity environment to prevent drying
>>> out. You don't with ribs. Do you need water with brisket or pork
>>> shoulder?
>
> Absolutely not.
>
> --
> Dave
>
I guess what I'm trying to understand is why was the water pan ever placed
in the smoker in the first place?
I don't see that it needs to be there either, but why was it ever there?

Kent

Kent wrote:

>>
> I guess what I'm trying to understand is why was the water pan ever placed
> in the smoker in the first place?
> I don't see that it needs to be there either, but why was it ever there?
>
> Kent

Go to the weber site (sorry I don't know the url) and they have a video
that explains the technology. It is for temperature control and nothing
else. As someone who has extensive experience with cooling towers in the
oil refineries, the technology is easy to understand. The fastest way to
get rid of thermal energy is to heat water and let it rapidly evaporate.
If your fire gets out of control, the evaporation rate increases helping
to moderate the temperature spike. In the case of a cooling tower, if we
wanted to make the product cooler, we would inject steam into the water,
forcing faster evaporation.

--
Dave T.

Age is a very high price to pay for maturity.

On Oct 3, 8:06 pm, "Brick" > wrote:

> "Basting the turkey seals
> in the juices, and adds flavor to the skin. Also makes >the skin more crisp. Some people insert spices under >the skin with a hypodermic
> needle to add more flavor. Basting juices can be used >for the gravy."

Well.. if you older sister is like mine, that would be a great subject
to drop. After all, basting won't hurt, and if she turns out a good
bird, who cares?

As for getting those spices under the skin, mix some dry rubbed sage
(a tsp), a tiny bit of powdered garlic (1/4 tsp), a small amount of
marjoram and thyme (about 1/2 tsp each) and black pepper (one tsp)
into about 3/4 cup olive oil.

Separate the skin from the flesh on the breast (the white meat will
take these spices like crazy) and into the crooks and crannies of the
joints. Put some of your mixture on your palm, slip your hand under
the skin and rub that stuff in. You don't need much - that 3/4 cup
will do the whole bird (+/- a 14 pounder) and give you some to rub on
the outside of the bird as well.

I whole hearted agree with using the juices for gravy. When I put one
in the oven, I usually put in large chunks of onion, celery and
different stalks of spices in the cavity. (I tried this when smoking,
but the smoke overwhelms the veggies, and since I am after the smoke
anyway, I don't do it anymore.) the veggies make the juice and
rendered fat really flavorful. Perfect for gravy.

Looking at the calendar, it looks like it's getting to be turkey time
again. Gets here sooner every year.

Robert

In article >,
LID says...
>
> If it seems to you like you may not be doing enough by no longer
> basting, I have a tasty solution. Try the Thompson Turkey:
> http://www.bigdaddyskitchen.com/Tall%20Tales%20and%20Anecdotes/Stories/Morton%20Thompson's%20Turkey.htm
> (or: http://tinyurl.com/54skd )
>
> I've never been willing to do the work--but some folk I've known over
> the years swear by it.

heh, looks interesting, but I'm *way* too lazy to do all that!

--
Bill

"Dave T." > wrote in message
t...
> Kent wrote:
>
>>>
>> I guess what I'm trying to understand is why was the water pan ever
>> placed in the smoker in the first place?
>> I don't see that it needs to be there either, but why was it ever there?
>>
>> Kent
>
> Go to the weber site (sorry I don't know the url) and they have a video
> that explains the technology. It is for temperature control and nothing
> else. As someone who has extensive experience with cooling towers in the
> oil refineries, the technology is easy to understand. The fastest way to
> get rid of thermal energy is to heat water and let it rapidly evaporate.
> If your fire gets out of control, the evaporation rate increases helping
> to moderate the temperature spike. In the case of a cooling tower, if we
> wanted to make the product cooler, we would inject steam into the water,
> forcing faster evaporation.
>
> --
> Dave T.
>
> Age is a very high price to pay for maturity.
>
>
Thanks, I'd guess than, that the maximum temp. of the smoker would be
reduced. I make a lot of pizza.
To mimick the high steam bread oven in most pizza parlors, I spray water
mist into the oven three times during the
first 90 sec. of baking. That gives you a browner crisper crust, especially
with the home oven that doesn't get that hot anyway.
BTW, your age rhetoric above is the understatement of the century, or close
to it.

Kent

> wrote in message
oups.com...
> On Oct 2, 10:40 am, "Dave Bugg" > wrote:
>
>> Since moisture doesn't penetrate through the skin, I just >don't see how
>> basting could keep a bird moist. So, I >think this is another ham-slicing
>> tradition.
>> --
>> Davewww.davebbq.com
>
> My job for years has been the Thanksgiving turkey, Christmas turkey,
> or anytime we want smoked turkey. The point being I have cooked a
> truckload over the years using different methods.
>
> I think the basting process is an opportunity to "check on the bird
> for most people that don't have confidence in what they are doing. As
> a kid, we only had turkey once a year, so Mom didn't get much
> practice. After cooking my first few turkeys in the oven (talk about
> "set it, and forget it") I started to think that Mom was puttin' on
> the dog a little by constantly fiddling with the bird while it was
> cooking.
>
> And no wonder an oven cooked bird takes me about 20 minutes a pound,
> and for mom it was as much as 45. She opened up the oven, pulled out
> the rack, uncovered the turkey, basted, covered it back up, put it
> back in and closed the oven door. Wow... she let the heat out of the
> oven every hour like clockwork.
>
> It is easy to see that basting simply cannot work to "keep the meat
> moist" unless you are trying to seal it with greasy drippings or
> oils. Even these would slough off quickly when the bird is cooking.
>
> If the meat is cooking, it is hot, forcing OUT the juices in the
> flesh. With the juices coming out of the meat, how could they reverse
> the flow and absorb any juices? Easy answer - they can't. With the
> bird expulsing juices, it cannot absorb them at the same time.
>
> However... I do baste when baking because it makes my elderly parents
> feel like the bird is being done correctly to their traditions. (When
> it is me and LOML, I don't baste.) And if you truss your bird like I
> do, it is good to hit rear cavity with the dressing sticking out with
> the baste. When it is 30 minutes from finish, I rub the breast with
> butter and put it in a 425 degree oven to brown the breast.
>
> When smoking, I make a wet rub and put it under the skin before
> putting it on the pit. I rub the outside with EVOO and a little dry
> rub for color, and that's all it gets until it is done. They always
> come out with great flavor and really juicy. Smoking a proper turkey
> is about as hard as grilling a good burger.
>
> Robert
>
>
Do you cook breast side down, up, or do you rotate the turkey each 30-45
minutes?
I'm guessing you cook indirectly, with a drip pan underneath to catch
drippings for the gravy.
What smoke temp. do you use, and how long do you smoke for a 15lb turkey?
TIA,

Kent

Kent wrote:

> BTW, your age rhetoric above is the understatement of the century, or close
> to it.
>
> Kent


I am nothing if not understated...Someone else on one of the NG's has a
sig that says that youth is wasted on the young. I believe the wisdom of
that.

--
Dave T.

Age is a very high price to pay for maturity.