Barbecue (alt.food.barbecue) Discuss barbecue and grilling--southern style "low and slow" smoking of ribs, shoulders and briskets, as well as direct heat grilling of everything from burgers to salmon to vegetables.

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Nonnymus wrote:
> Dave Bugg wrote:
>
>>
>> I spent three months running trials to see if I could dial the
>> Cookshack in to reproduce the taste, texture, and tenderness of my
>> Ole Hickory. I never could get brisket or pork butts/shoulders to
>> taste as good. It does do chickens real well, and it does OK for
>> ribs in a pinch. It also make a superb holding oven.
>>

> Dave, what are your theories about why this is?


I wish I knew how to pin-point it. I think that the difference in humidity
levels, and convection currents/ air movement may have something to do with
it. The reason the Cookshack (and my Alto Shaam holding oven) works so well
as a holding oven is the reduction in air movement, which will dry out meat.
This may have an effect on low temperature bbq cooking.

I know that there is also no smoke ring in meat bbq'd in most electrics,
which indicates a lack of interaction between myoglobin and
nitrates/nitrites from wood smoke. This may be a marker which indicates
something else is different in smoke vs. meat interaction that makes a
difference. Who knows?

--
Dave
www.davebbq.com


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On Sep 17, 11:04 pm, "Dave Bugg" > wrote:

> I wish I knew how to pin-point it. I think that the >difference in humidity
> levels, and convection currents/ air movement may have >something to do with
> it.


I was hoping for some great explanation... but appreciate the
honesty. I think this falls into the great unexplained "X files" of
outdoor cooking.

One thing I have NEVER understood is how two different pits of
apparently equal quality and no huge difference in design can turn out
distinctly different tasting food when all the indgredients, meats,
fuels and cooking processes are the same.

Another question mark came up in reheating the leftover meat. After
observing one of the last local "honest to Pete" BBQ joints here in my
city doing this, I changed my own method or reheating leftovers. I
put them back on the pit on a 200 degree fire unfoiled (but then... I
never foil anything) until they are nice and hot. I let them get to
"cool to the touch" temperature before putting them on the pit, and
that is all the care they get. Sometimes they taste like the day they
came off the pit, even if they were frozen before reheating.

As a sidebar, this warmup only works without adding additional smoke.
A chimney of charcoal or lump works great with no added wood. Added
smoke to your masterpiece makes it taste like old barnwood. It
doesn't just intensify the flavor, it ruins it.

I can't for the life of me figure out why there is a 1000% increase in
flavor from heating on the pit as opposed to heating on a baking sheet
in the oven. Neither have smoke, both are controlled temps, neither
are foiled, but the flavor difference is huge.

Any thoughts on that one? I figure you might be all over this mystery
since you no doubt face this problem every day in the restaurant. And
of course, if you know of a better way to reheat those last two racks
of spares, I would love to hear it.

Robert

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On 17-Sep-2007, "Dave Bugg" > wrote:

> Fed Up wrote:
> > "Nick Cramer" > > What better place for
> > flaming, than a BBQ group? Dave is correct, BTW.
> >>

> > I have no argument with his info, it is the manner in which he
> > delivers it, making newbies feel chastised instead of merely being
> > corrected. It drives people away.

>
> You mean it is your *opinion* and interpretation. Otherwise, please
> provide
> a list of all those who I've 'driven away'. And please post a specific
> statement that each made stating that they are leaving due to me. Try to
> corroborate your baseless assertion.
>
> I'm waiting.


I was a newbie 4 years ago. I'm still here. I'm sure there's some wish
I wasn't.

--
Brick(And God said to Harley Davidson, "Last I checked, more men were
riding my invention then yours".)
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On 17-Sep-2007, "Dave Bugg" > wrote:

> Brick wrote:
> > On 17-Sep-2007, "Fed Up" > wrote:
> >
> >> "Dave Bugg" > > This is an unmoderated ng in
> >> which highly skilled bbq enthusiasts make up
> >>> the majority of subscribers. Everything you write IS everyone's
> >>> business
> >>>
> >>> and, as such, open to criticism or comment. There will be strong
> >>> disagreements, chiding, and corrections to bad information. If that
> >>> is disagreeable to you, feel free to leave...... cool?
> >>
> >>
> >> You know Dave you've probably driven more newbies off this NG than
> >> anybody
> >>
> >> with your unrelenting "purist" bullshit and I find that quite ironic
> >> since
> >>
> >> you yourself use a gas fired pit and and call your product
> >> "authentic bbq"

> >
> > I wonder when Dave changed pits. Last I heard he was still using a
> > Southern Pride wood burner. Maybe Fed Up has confused Dave with Big
> > Jim and his Lazy 'Q' rigs.

>
> I haven't changed pits, Brick. I've always used an Ole Hickory woodburner.
> I
> recently added a Cookshack 250 (commercial pit) because I sometimes have
> so
> much pork and brisket going that I lack room for chickens, and sometimes
> ribs.
>
> I spent three months running trials to see if I could dial the Cookshack
> in
> to reproduce the taste, texture, and tenderness of my Ole Hickory. I never
>
> could get brisket or pork butts/shoulders to taste as good. It does do
> chickens real well, and it does OK for ribs in a pinch. It also make a
> superb holding oven.
>
> --
> Dave


My bad, sorta. I remember back when you were still shopping for a pit and
I "seem to remember" that Old Hickory and Southern Pride were the top
contenders. For some reason, I thought you had chosen the Southern
Pride. At any rate, neither is electric nor a gas burner and a short trip
to either web site confirms that. It's interesting to note though, that "Fed
Up" jumped on the hearsay of my comment and asserted that you were
using a "Gas Fired" Southern Pride. One can only wonder where he got
the idea that you were cooking with gas. I sure as hell didn't say that.

If I use a weed burner to light my pit, does that mean that I'm cooking
with gas? Oh, I know. I'm cooking with parafin because I light my chimney
with parafin sticks.

--
Brick(Save a tree, eat a Beaver)
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Dave Bugg wrote:
> Fed Up wrote:
> > "Dave Bugg" > > This is an unmoderated ng in which
> > highly skilled bbq enthusiasts make up
> >> the majority of subscribers. Everything you write IS everyone's
> >> business and, as such, open to criticism or comment. There will be
> >> strong disagreements, chiding, and corrections to bad information.
> >> If that is disagreeable to you, feel free to leave...... cool?

> >
> >
> > You know Dave you've probably driven more newbies off this NG than
> > anybody with your unrelenting "purist" bullshit and I find that quite
> > ironic since you yourself use a gas fired pit and and call your
> > product "authentic bbq"

>
> Ah, the predictable anonymous leg-humper pops up yet again; too much of a
> coward to post under its real name.
>
> I don't preach 'purist' anything. I preach excellence. You have always been
> consistent in defending the lowest-common mediocre denominator. My main pit
> has a gas-fired log lighter to get logs started, and goes through about a
> cord of fruitwood a week. I also use a Cookshack electric powered pit. My
> log burner puts out a better product with pork shoulders, butts and brisket
> than the Cookshack, so I limit the Cookshack to ribs and chicken when and if
> my log-burner is full. So much for the insult.
>
> Your other comment regarding newbies is meaningless sniping from a
> know-nothing.
>
> --
> Dave
> www.davebbq.com


you preach because you know you're a ****ing piece of shit loser who
contributes little to society other than making fun of other people
for not having the elite bbq skills you do...

you rant out of sheer insecurity; I never provoked you or asked you a
****ing thing. You just waddled your fat, inbred, backwoods ass into
my conversation for no other reason than to satisfy your pathetic,
dimwitted little ego.



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"Brick" > wrote in message
news:ZnSHi.2364$6o2.1700@trnddc05...
>


> using a "Gas Fired" Southern Pride. One can only wonder where he got
> the idea that you were cooking with gas. I sure as hell didn't say that.
>
> If I use a weed burner to light my pit, does that mean that I'm cooking
> with gas? Oh, I know. I'm cooking with parafin because I light my chimney
> with parafin sticks.
>
> --
> Brick(Save a tree, eat a Beaver)


Don't know how deep into this gas thing y'all have pondered, BUTT, What is
gas and where did it come from? Mostly from decomposed forests. And what are
they? DEAD TREES. I rest my case<g>
--
James A. "Big Jim" Whitten

www.lazyq.com


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Brick wrote:
> I was a newbie 4 years ago. I'm still here. I'm sure there's some wish
> I wasn't.



I was a newbie right now. (heh)

Dave's advice, along with others, have helped me out quite a bit.




--Brett


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> Don't know how deep into this gas thing y'all have pondered, BUTT, What is
> gas and where did it come from? Mostly from decomposed forests. And what
> are they? DEAD TREES. I rest my case<g>


That's the same reason I hate most vegetables. Cows and pigs eat mostly
what? Corn and grain. That means they're made of vegetables and grain. Works
for me.

-John O


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vex wrote:
> Brick wrote:
>> I was a newbie 4 years ago. I'm still here. I'm sure there's some
>> wish I wasn't.

>
>
> I was a newbie right now. (heh)
>
> Dave's advice, along with others, have helped me out quite a bit.


Dang, Brett, and your still here!!!?? I'm falling down on the job :-)

--
Dave
www.davebbq.com


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Brick wrote:

> I was a newbie 4 years ago. I'm still here. I'm sure there's some wish
> I wasn't.


But then who'd be the afb curmudgoen?

--
Dave
www.davebbq.com




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Brick wrote:

> My bad, sorta. I remember back when you were still shopping for a pit
> and
> I "seem to remember" that Old Hickory and Southern Pride were the top
> contenders.


Good memory. You're right; I had narrowed my final choice between the two
manufacturers.

--
Dave
www.davebbq.com


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the warlock society wrote:
> Dave Bugg wrote:
>> Fed Up wrote:
>>> "Dave Bugg" > > This is an unmoderated ng in
>>> which highly skilled bbq enthusiasts make up
>>>> the majority of subscribers. Everything you write IS everyone's
>>>> business and, as such, open to criticism or comment. There will be
>>>> strong disagreements, chiding, and corrections to bad information.
>>>> If that is disagreeable to you, feel free to leave...... cool?
>>>
>>>
>>> You know Dave you've probably driven more newbies off this NG than
>>> anybody with your unrelenting "purist" bullshit and I find that
>>> quite ironic since you yourself use a gas fired pit and and call
>>> your product "authentic bbq"

>>
>> Ah, the predictable anonymous leg-humper pops up yet again; too much
>> of a coward to post under its real name.
>>
>> I don't preach 'purist' anything. I preach excellence. You have
>> always been consistent in defending the lowest-common mediocre
>> denominator. My main pit has a gas-fired log lighter to get logs
>> started, and goes through about a cord of fruitwood a week. I also
>> use a Cookshack electric powered pit. My log burner puts out a
>> better product with pork shoulders, butts and brisket than the
>> Cookshack, so I limit the Cookshack to ribs and chicken when and if
>> my log-burner is full. So much for the insult.
>>
>> Your other comment regarding newbies is meaningless sniping from a
>> know-nothing.
>>
>> --
>> Dave
>> www.davebbq.com

>
> you preach because you know you're a ****ing piece of shit loser who
> contributes little to society other than making fun of other people
> for not having the elite bbq skills you do...
>
> you rant out of sheer insecurity; I never provoked you or asked you a
> ****ing thing. You just waddled your fat, inbred, backwoods ass into
> my conversation for no other reason than to satisfy your pathetic,
> dimwitted little ego.



ROFLOL!!!! Thank you for your thoughts. I'm sure others reading this will
be enlightened by your mastery of language, logic, and persuasion.

--
Dave
www.davebbq.com


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Dave Bugg wrote:
> Nonnymus wrote:
>> Dave Bugg wrote:
>>
>>> I spent three months running trials to see if I could dial the
>>> Cookshack in to reproduce the taste, texture, and tenderness of my
>>> Ole Hickory. I never could get brisket or pork butts/shoulders to
>>> taste as good. It does do chickens real well, and it does OK for
>>> ribs in a pinch. It also make a superb holding oven.
>>>

>> Dave, what are your theories about why this is?

>
> I wish I knew how to pin-point it. I think that the difference in humidity
> levels, and convection currents/ air movement may have something to do with
> it. The reason the Cookshack (and my Alto Shaam holding oven) works so well
> as a holding oven is the reduction in air movement, which will dry out meat.
> This may have an effect on low temperature bbq cooking.


Interesting thought. A fuel burner of any kind needs oxygen and fuel to
work. Anything I've seen along that line permits the smoke to exit the
combustion chamber and flow through the smoking chamber. OTOH, an
electric smoker can be almost sealed closed. (from below comment) I
agree that my electric Bradley produces no smoke ring, and attribute
that to the lower temperature of the smoldering wood pucks. While I've
not played with a non-puck burning smoker, do you happen to know if the
wood chips actually burn or just smolder like in the Bradley? Another
difference between the Bradley, a wood chip electric smoker and a true
combustion smoker is that the Bradley quenches the pucks after 20
minutes. I wonder if the quenching prevents the release of some
unsavory flavors that might come out after a puck is almost fully turned
to ash? The pucks I find in the quenching pan still have their shape
and are black- not gray ash- as I've seen with electrically heated wood
chips and obviously in my past combustion heated smokers.

Any idea when the magic smoke-ring-making stuff is produced?

Nonny



>
> I know that there is also no smoke ring in meat bbq'd in most electrics,
> which indicates a lack of interaction between myoglobin and
> nitrates/nitrites from wood smoke. This may be a marker which indicates
> something else is different in smoke vs. meat interaction that makes a
> difference. Who knows?
>



--
---Nonnymus---
You don’t stand any taller by
trying to make others appear shorter.
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the warlock society wrote:

> I never provoked you or asked you a
> ****ing thing. You just waddled your fat, inbred, backwoods ass into
> my conversation for no other reason than to satisfy your pathetic,
> dimwitted little ego.


Psssst.....Bubba, here's something you need to know about usenet and
newsgroups: if you want a PRIVATE conversation you take it to email.
Otherwise, any comment you post is addressed to the whole GROUP and may be
responded to by anyone reading said post, even when you're posting a
response to another person's post.

Now, let me know if what I wrote is too hard to understand. I will be happy
to re-write it for a lower grade level. I hope I've been helpful.

Hugs and kisses,
Dave




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Nonnymus wrote:
> Dave Bugg wrote:
>> Nonnymus wrote:
>>> Dave Bugg wrote:
>>>
>>>> I spent three months running trials to see if I could dial the
>>>> Cookshack in to reproduce the taste, texture, and tenderness of my
>>>> Ole Hickory. I never could get brisket or pork butts/shoulders to
>>>> taste as good. It does do chickens real well, and it does OK for
>>>> ribs in a pinch. It also make a superb holding oven.
>>>>
>>> Dave, what are your theories about why this is?

>>
>> I wish I knew how to pin-point it. I think that the difference in
>> humidity levels, and convection currents/ air movement may have
>> something to do with it. The reason the Cookshack (and my Alto Shaam
>> holding oven) works so well as a holding oven is the reduction in
>> air movement, which will dry out meat. This may have an effect on
>> low temperature bbq cooking.

>
> Interesting thought. A fuel burner of any kind needs oxygen and fuel
> to work. Anything I've seen along that line permits the smoke to
> exit the combustion chamber and flow through the smoking chamber. OTOH, an
> electric smoker can be almost sealed closed. (from below
> comment) I agree that my electric Bradley produces no smoke ring, and
> attribute that to the lower temperature of the smoldering wood pucks.
> While I've not played with a non-puck burning smoker, do you happen
> to know if the wood chips actually burn or just smolder like in the
> Bradley? Another difference between the Bradley, a wood chip
> electric smoker and a true combustion smoker is that the Bradley
> quenches the pucks after 20 minutes. I wonder if the quenching
> prevents the release of some unsavory flavors that might come out
> after a puck is almost fully turned to ash? The pucks I find in the
> quenching pan still have their shape and are black- not gray ash- as
> I've seen with electrically heated wood chips and obviously in my
> past combustion heated smokers.
> Any idea when the magic smoke-ring-making stuff is produced?


You reminded me of something, N. The Cookshack 250 has two combustion boxes.
One of the things that I tried with the Cookshack was to use lump in one
box, and wood chunks in the other. The addition of the lump allowed a small
smoke ring to form in the brisket.

How does the meat your Bradley produces compare in taste to your combustion
smoker? I think Harry D. has a Bradley now, and since he has a long history
using Kamados, I'd be interested to hear his comparison as well.

--
Dave
www.davebbq.com


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Dave Bugg wrote:

>
> How does the meat your Bradley produces compare in taste to your combustion
> smoker? I think Harry D. has a Bradley now, and since he has a long history
> using Kamados, I'd be interested to hear his comparison as well.
>

Sadly, all I can go on is memory, Dave. My comparison by recollection
is that the Bradley does a darn good job, but obviously no aesthetic
smoke ring. After moving here to a small lot, I started out with a gas
grill from Sam's Club and did offset using one burner for wood chips in
foil and the balance of the grate for ribs or butt. I DID get a small
smoke ring from the chips in foil, which would make me think that it's a
factor of the heat of the wood chips. Unlike the Bradley pucks, I also
got gray ash from the wood chips in foil.

My grill also has a little tray where you can actually burn or heat the
chips over a gas "log lighter"-type of burner. I don't like that and
seldom used it because the wood would always ignite, since there was no
regulation of combustion air to the wood as you'd have with chips in foil.

The problem with using a grill and even chips in foil is exactly what
you were talking about. The hood of a grill provides literally no
regulation of air flow and when doing low and slow in it, the meat dries
out. IMHO, if we were to list (maybe a good idea) the things that make
low and slow so successful, I'd put 1) controlled airflow in the smoking
chamber to balance off humidity and drying. . . right up there toward
the top.

Heck, when I get a chance I might even start a thread listing possible
"important" things for low and slow and maybe some of the pros can kick
in and make it something usable for all.

Nonny

--
---Nonnymus---
You don’t stand any taller by
trying to make others appear shorter.
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Dave Bugg wrote:
> the warlock society wrote:
>
> > I never provoked you or asked you a
> > ****ing thing. You just waddled your fat, inbred, backwoods ass into
> > my conversation for no other reason than to satisfy your pathetic,
> > dimwitted little ego.

>
> Psssst.....Bubba, here's something you need to know about usenet and
> newsgroups: if you want a PRIVATE conversation you take it to email.
> Otherwise, any comment you post is addressed to the whole GROUP and may be
> responded to by anyone reading said post, even when you're posting a
> response to another person's post.
>
> Now, let me know if what I wrote is too hard to understand. I will be happy
> to re-write it for a lower grade level. I hope I've been helpful.
>
> Hugs and kisses,
> Dave


You sure have a funny way of drumming up business Dave. By the way...
is this your place of business or your home address Dave?

Dave's Pit-Smoked Bar-B-Que
841 N. Kentucky Ave
East Wenatchee, Washington 98802
United States
5092644943

I wonder what the Douglas County officials would think of their new
business owner's practice of abusing strangers on the internet? maybe
I should send them some transcripts and ask them what they think?

I'd hate for your competition to find out what about you. Imagine if
you went to your competition's restaurant only to find your Usenet
postings framed and highlighted on wall! How embarassing would that
be!

>From what I can tell Weatchee is a small town where you cant afford

bad press, Dave. Lets hope my emails and phone calls dont take too
much of a toll on your business... it sounded like your went through A
LOT of trouble to get your restaurant started... hopefully it wasnt
all for nothing!

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On Sep 18, 12:49 pm, the warlock society > wrote:
> bad press, Dave. Lets hope my emails and phone calls dont take too
> much of a toll on your business... it sounded like your went through A
> LOT of trouble to get your restaurant started... hopefully it wasnt
> all for nothing!- Hide quoted text -
>


Can anyone else say "psycho stalker" ?

Wow Dave, if this guy lives in your county I think you've got grounds
for a court order. What a maroon.


From: the warlock society >
Newsgroups: alt.food.barbecue
Subject: Making a real BBQ rig
Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2007 12:49:08 -0700
Organization: http://groups.google.com
Lines: 45
Message-ID: .com>
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NNTP-Posting-Host: 208.242.14.141
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
X-Trace: posting.google.com 1190144948 8289 127.0.0.1 (18 Sep 2007
19:49:08 GMT)
X-Complaints-To:
NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2007 19:49:08 +0000 (UTC)
In-Reply-To: >
User-Agent: G2/1.0
X-HTTP-UserAgent: Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 6.0; Windows NT 5.1;
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Injection-Info: k79g2000hse.googlegroups.com; posting-
host=208.242.14.141;
posting-account=ps2QrAMAAAA6_jCuRt2JEIpn5Otqf_w0



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the warlock society wrote:

> You sure have a funny way of drumming up business Dave. By the way...
> is this your place of business or your home address Dave?
>
> Dave's Pit-Smoked Bar-B-Que
> 841 N. Kentucky Ave
> East Wenatchee, Washington 98802
> United States
> 5092644943


Puhleez, is net-stalking the best you can do? Musta been real hard for you
to do the legwork.

> I wonder what the Douglas County officials would think of their new
> business owner's practice of abusing strangers on the internet? maybe
> I should send them some transcripts and ask them what they think?


<snork> And that is a threat, how? Oh, I see; you think that county
officials are internet moderators. ROTFLOL!!! Go for it. I'm sure they'll
even get a giggle, especially after reading your rants with your special
brand of language usage..

> I'd hate for your competition to find out what about you. Imagine if
> you went to your competition's restaurant only to find your Usenet
> postings framed and highlighted on wall! How embarassing would that
> be!


Wouldn't bother me a bit. But, I doubt there's a 'competitor' that's so bag
o' rocks stupid as to waste the wall space.

>> From what I can tell Weatchee is a small town where you cant afford

> bad press, Dave.


Bwahahahaha..... I'm really (giggle) not too terribly concerned about bad
press from you (snicker). You might, however, want to check federal statutes
about using the internet to make threats. I am your friend and only want the
best for you.

> Lets hope my emails and phone calls dont take too
> much of a toll on your business...


Please, email and phone call away. Oh, and please check federal law about
using the phone with the intent to harrass or harm, 'cause I care about you
and don't want you to hurt yourself accidentally.

> it sounded like your went through A
> LOT of trouble to get your restaurant started... hopefully it wasnt
> all for nothing!


You must have an especially difficult case of
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Micropenis Did the kids make fun of you in the
high school during PE shower time? Did your wife leave you because of it? I
kinda feel sorry for you, 'cause you seem like a real nice guy. Please, keep
in touch and let me know how your efforts to ruin my business work out for
ya. If your efforts don't seem to pan out, let me know and maybe I can offer
you some encouragement.

With sincere and loving concern,
Dave
www.davebbq.com




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On Sep 18, 2:49 pm, the warlock society > cast a whiny
Harry Potter spell by saying:>

>From what I can tell Weatchee is a small town where you >cant afford bad press, Dave. Lets hope my emails and >phone calls dont take too much of a toll on your >business... it sounded like your went through A
> LOT of trouble to get your restaurant started... hopefully >it wasnt
> all for nothing


You know, Dave can be blunt and opinionated. Maybe even a little fast
on the draw. So what.

I was amused by your snotty little schoolboy threats (WTF warlock,
gonna cast a spell from a Demons and Wizards game?) and thinking of
you writing his name on the bathroom wall, telling the teacher while
everyone was at recess... pretty funny. It reminds us that the
internet is truly open to all.

But for your punk ass piece of knob gobbling shit to threaten his
business is beyond childish and assinine. Pretty brave little elf
hiding behind the anonyminity of the internet, aren't you?

Even with a spell of invincibility and the pink shoes of escape
strapped firmly to your snotty little self, I wonder if you would say
that to him in person. Probably not.

Prove to us that you are actually a real warlock and make yourself
disappear. Please.

Robert

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"Big Jim" > wrote:
> "Brick" > wrote in message
> [ . . . ]
> Don't know how deep into this gas thing y'all have pondered, BUTT, What
> is gas and where did it come from? Mostly from decomposed forests. And
> what are they? DEAD TREES. I rest my case<g>


As did anthracite and bituminous coal. I ya don't like it, lump it! I rest
my case. <vbg>

--
Nick. Support severely wounded and disabled Veterans and their families!

Thank a Veteran and Support Our Troops. You are not forgotten. Thanks ! ! !
~Semper Fi~
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the warlock society wrote:


> you preach because you know you're a ****ing piece of shit loser


I knew this was a coming.

*plonk*




Brian

--
If televison's a babysitter, the Internet is a drunk librarian who
won't shut up.
-- Dorothy Gambrell (http://catandgirl.com)
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> wrote in message
oups.com...
> On Sep 18, 2:49 pm, the warlock society > cast a whiny
> Harry Potter spell by saying:>
>
> >From what I can tell Weatchee is a small town where you >cant afford bad

press, Dave. Lets hope my emails and >phone calls dont take too much of a
toll on your >business... it sounded like your went through A
> > LOT of trouble to get your restaurant started... hopefully >it wasnt
> > all for nothing

>
> You know, Dave can be blunt and opinionated. Maybe even a little fast
> on the draw. So what.
>
> I was amused by your snotty little schoolboy threats (WTF warlock,
> gonna cast a spell from a Demons and Wizards game?) and thinking of
> you writing his name on the bathroom wall, telling the teacher while
> everyone was at recess... pretty funny. It reminds us that the
> internet is truly open to all.
>
> But for your punk ass piece of knob gobbling shit to threaten his
> business is beyond childish and assinine. Pretty brave little elf
> hiding behind the anonyminity of the internet, aren't you?
>
> Even with a spell of invincibility and the pink shoes of escape
> strapped firmly to your snotty little self, I wonder if you would say
> that to him in person. Probably not.
>
> Prove to us that you are actually a real warlock and make yourself
> disappear. Please.
>
> Robert
>


I think you guys are being a little too harsh with Mr Warlock...I was just
beginning to like him.


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On 18-Sep-2007, "Dave Bugg" > wrote:

> Brick wrote:
>
> > I was a newbie 4 years ago. I'm still here. I'm sure there's some wish
> > I wasn't.

>
> But then who'd be the afb curmudgoen?
>
> --
> Dave
> www.davebbq.com


Yeh, the best had the audacity to die on us.
Long live Jack Curry and Cuchulain (The Hound) Libby.

Of course Hound didn't qualify agewise, but he held his
own in other curmudgoinly attributes. Jack wasn't all
that old either. Must have been the good livin' did them in.
--
Brick(Save a tree, eat a Beaver)


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On 18-Sep-2007, "Dave Bugg" > wrote:

> wrote:
>
> > I can't for the life of me figure out why there is a 1000% increase in
> > flavor from heating on the pit as opposed to heating on a baking sheet
> > in the oven. Neither have smoke, both are controlled temps, neither
> > are foiled, but the flavor difference is huge.
> > Any thoughts on that one? I figure you might be all over this mystery
> > since you no doubt face this problem every day in the restaurant. And
> > of course, if you know of a better way to reheat those last two racks
> > of spares, I would love to hear it.
> >
> > Robert

>
> Maybe it has to do with the seasoning of the pit vs the cleanliness of the
>
> oven? :-) I honestly don't know. A lot of folks will cut left over slabs
>
> into single bones, stick 'em into a foodsaver or other vacuum sealer bag
> and
> seal, and then throw the intact bag in a pot of boiling water to reheat. I
>
> think the biggest factor in reheating is to do it in a manner that reduces
>
> meat exposure to air movement (drying).
>
> Brick has spent a lot of time researching vacuum system bags and costs,
> etc.
> and can give you more info.
>
> --
> Dave
>
www.davebbq.com


I can't add any daylight to that discussion. Vacuum bagging greatly
reduces the loss of moisture and or dilution of flavor attributed to other
methods of reheating. And anything that does leak out of the meat will
end up on your plate if you put it there. I confess, I haven't tried
reheating
in the pit. It wouldn't be reasonable for the tiny quantities that I reheat.

Something I heard Mario Batelli relate on his show recently lends
credibility
to Dave's guess about the environment of a well seasoned pit. Mario said
that bread baked in a brand new oven isn't near as good as that baked in
the same oven months later. In the case of bread, he attributed it to
particles
of yeast hanging around in the air. Given that, just sticking my head in my
pit and checking the smell, I can say with authority, that it doesn't smell
anything like my kitchen oven. It's bound to have some effect on whatever
is heated in there.

I've seen Big Jim reheat the day after cooking, using foil. I've had decent
results doing the same thing. On two occasions I used one of those big
portable roaster ovens to reheat a variety of 'Q' products. I did that last
month when Big Jim, BobinGA, Ginger and TFM® & Company were here
to chow down and swap lies.

All I'm going to say about that is that it beats keeping guests waiting for
some food after they have driven half a day to get to my place. I wouldn't
have tried to reheat and hold in 'MY' pit because I can't control the temp
well enough. I liked the portable roaster because I was able to fill it
completely full. I don't know how that translates to taste, but it made
me feel better.

Bottom line; I don't know either.

--
Brick(Save a tree, eat a Beaver)
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Denny Wheeler wrote:
> On Tue, 18 Sep 2007 10:44:34 -0700, "Dave Bugg" >
> wrote:
>
>> vex wrote:
>>> Brick wrote:
>>>> I was a newbie 4 years ago. I'm still here. I'm sure there's some
>>>> wish I wasn't.
>>>
>>>
>>> I was a newbie right now. (heh)
>>>
>>> Dave's advice, along with others, have helped me out quite a bit.

>>
>> Dang, Brett, and your still here!!!?? I'm falling down on the job
>> :-)

>
> So'm I--even after the trauma of meeting you in Real Life (tm).


LOL!!!

--
Dave
www.davebbq.com


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Denny Wheeler wrote:
> On Tue, 18 Sep 2007 10:47:17 -0700, "Dave Bugg" >
> wrote:
>
>> Brick wrote:
>>
>>> I was a newbie 4 years ago. I'm still here. I'm sure there's some
>>> wish I wasn't.

>>
>> But then who'd be the afb curmudgoen?

>
> <denny raises his hand, and switches to one of his most-used sig
> files>
>
> -Denny-
> the curmudgeonly editor


Maybe we should start a Curmudgeon Committee. It could be a sub-committee of
the Cabal.

--
Dave
www.davebbq.com


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On 18-Sep-2007, Nonnymus > wrote:

> Dave Bugg wrote:
>
> >
> > How does the meat your Bradley produces compare in taste to your
> > combustion
> > smoker? I think Harry D. has a Bradley now, and since he has a long
> > history
> > using Kamados, I'd be interested to hear his comparison as well.
> >

> Sadly, all I can go on is memory, Dave. My comparison by recollection
> is that the Bradley does a darn good job, but obviously no aesthetic
> smoke ring. After moving here to a small lot, I started out with a gas
> grill from Sam's Club and did offset using one burner for wood chips in
> foil and the balance of the grate for ribs or butt. I DID get a small
> smoke ring from the chips in foil, which would make me think that it's a
> factor of the heat of the wood chips. Unlike the Bradley pucks, I also
> got gray ash from the wood chips in foil.
>
> My grill also has a little tray where you can actually burn or heat the
> chips over a gas "log lighter"-type of burner. I don't like that and
> seldom used it because the wood would always ignite, since there was no
> regulation of combustion air to the wood as you'd have with chips in foil.
>
> The problem with using a grill and even chips in foil is exactly what
> you were talking about. The hood of a grill provides literally no
> regulation of air flow and when doing low and slow in it, the meat dries
> out. IMHO, if we were to list (maybe a good idea) the things that make
> low and slow so successful, I'd put 1) controlled airflow in the smoking
> chamber to balance off humidity and drying. . . right up there toward
> the top.
>
> Heck, when I get a chance I might even start a thread listing possible
> "important" things for low and slow and maybe some of the pros can kick
> in and make it something usable for all.
>
> Nonny


Now you've gone an got me curious about what difference there is between
my gas bullet smoker and my offset. The gas bullet is built almost exactly
like a WSM except that it has a round stovelike burner under a grate covered
with lava rock. It has a water pan and a center section with two grates just
like the WSM. It differs however, in that it has NO adjustable vents.
There's
not much room to put in wood chunks/chips, but I might use a little CI
skillet for that purpose in place of some of the lava rock.

I think I'll buy a butt and experiment. I'm mainly curious about that smoke
ring thing and my perceived difference in taste between meat with a
pronounced smoke ring and meat without. What I'm saying is, "I don't
know if my gasser with wood chunks produces anything like the same
taste I get from the offset.

The gasser does have one positive attribute. The burner runs 'Real' low
and I haven't changed the tank in a couple of years. I just got a 3 burner
grill this summer and have changed that tank already.

--
Brick(Save a tree, eat a Beaver)
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Brick wrote:

>>
>> Heck, when I get a chance I might even start a thread listing possible
>> "important" things for low and slow and maybe some of the pros can kick
>> in and make it something usable for all.
>>
>> Nonny

>
> Now you've gone an got me curious about what difference there is between
> my gas bullet smoker and my offset. The gas bullet is built almost exactly
> like a WSM except that it has a round stovelike burner under a grate covered
> with lava rock. It has a water pan and a center section with two grates just
> like the WSM. It differs however, in that it has NO adjustable vents.
> There's
> not much room to put in wood chunks/chips, but I might use a little CI
> skillet for that purpose in place of some of the lava rock.
>
> I think I'll buy a butt and experiment. I'm mainly curious about that smoke
> ring thing and my perceived difference in taste between meat with a
> pronounced smoke ring and meat without. What I'm saying is, "I don't
> know if my gasser with wood chunks produces anything like the same
> taste I get from the offset.
>
> The gasser does have one positive attribute. The burner runs 'Real' low
> and I haven't changed the tank in a couple of years. I just got a 3 burner
> grill this summer and have changed that tank already.
>


If one of us was a scientist, I bet he could make up some experiments.
One of my failings as a woodworking hobbyist was that I refused to
build things from plans. To me, the fun was building something one off,
using just a scratch pad to do the math or straighten out my mind. I
guess that's why I'm not a baker, because they have to work from
recipes, where I don't.

I know that on my Bradley, I've not fiddled with the damper in months.
It's about 3/4 open and that works for everything I've cooked to date
after getting it the way I want. The Bradley's only source of incoming
air is around the puck feeder and that's not dampered. My guess is that
the pucks get enough air to let them smolder away, but not enough for
combustion. I just don't know. What I do know is that the consumed
puck is still puck shaped and black as soot- not gray.

Nonny

--
---Nonnymus---
You don’t stand any taller by
trying to make others appear shorter.


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"Brick" > wrote in message
news:Ee_Hi.2167$oc2.304@trnddc04...
>


> I've seen Big Jim reheat the day after cooking, using foil. I've had
> decent
> results doing the same thing.>
> --
> Brick(Save a tree, eat a Beaver)


I only reheat brisket in foil, all other no foil.
IMO chick and ribs are not good candidates for reheating in a commercial
environment.
At home I use the NUKER.
--
James A. "Big Jim" Whitten

www.lazyq.com


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"Dave Bugg" > wrote in message
...
>. I use an Ole Hickory, and there is no gas or electric heating of a 'box'.
>A log lighter starts the logs in the fire box, and then the wood keeps the
>fire fueled. Just the same as any offset pit.
>
> --
> Dave
> www.davebbq.com
>


You are the 1st restaurant dude that I have 'known' that turns the gas off
in the OH once the wood is light---more power to ya!!!

Buzz


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Buzz1 wrote:
> "Dave Bugg" > wrote in message
> ...
>> . I use an Ole Hickory, and there is no gas or electric heating of a
>> 'box'. A log lighter starts the logs in the fire box, and then the
>> wood keeps the fire fueled. Just the same as any offset pit.
>>
>> --
>> Dave
>> www.davebbq.com
>>

>
> You are the 1st restaurant dude that I have 'known' that turns the
> gas off in the OH once the wood is light---more power to ya!!!


I haven't had much of a problem at all doing it that way. The secret is to
build up a good bed of coals. If need be I add lump into the mix.
--
Dave
www.davebbq.com


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On 19-Sep-2007, "Big Jim" > wrote:

> "Brick" > wrote in message
> news:Ee_Hi.2167$oc2.304@trnddc04...
> >

>
> > I've seen Big Jim reheat the day after cooking, using foil. I've had
> > decent
> > results doing the same thing.>
> > --
> > Brick(Save a tree, eat a Beaver)

>
> I only reheat brisket in foil, all other no foil.
> IMO chick and ribs are not good candidates for reheating in a commercial
>
> environment.
> At home I use the NUKER.
> --
> James A. "Big Jim" Whitten


I don't know a thing about the commercial business of cooking. But I
don't think I'd pay good money for reheated day old 'Q' if I could recognize
it as such.

I have had good results though with reheating pit smoked meats
that have not gone through a refrigerator cycle. For that gathering
I fed last August, everything was reheated except the chicken. The
food police would likely frown on it, but they don't eat at my place.

For stuff that's been refrigerated or even frozen, I use the vacuum bag
and boiling water process a lot and the nuker the rest of the time. I
don't have to worry about cheating my customer. She doesn't want to
do the cooking.
--
Brick(Save a tree, eat a Beaver)
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Brick wrote:

> For stuff that's been refrigerated or even frozen, I use the vacuum bag
> and boiling water process a lot and the nuker the rest of the time. I
> don't have to worry about cheating my customer. She doesn't want to
> do the cooking.


Let me second that, Brick. The only trick I learned was to let the
pulled pork or ribs cool down before vacuum bagging. That congeals the
juice and the vacuum doesn't pull it out the opening of the bag before
it seals. When I've not done that, I end up with a bad seal and also a
mess in the Foodsaver. I prefer the boiling pan of water over the
microwave, but don't know why. Perhaps it's that the microwave can
overheat the fatty areas more, causing more cooking where the pan of
boiling water won't.

--
---Nonnymus---
You don’t stand any taller by
trying to make others appear shorter.


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On Tue, 18 Sep 2007 17:17:20 -0700, Denny Wheeler
> wrote:

>On Tue, 18 Sep 2007 10:44:34 -0700, "Dave Bugg" >
>wrote:
>
>>vex wrote:
>>> Brick wrote:
>>>> I was a newbie 4 years ago. I'm still here. I'm sure there's some
>>>> wish I wasn't.
>>>
>>>
>>> I was a newbie right now. (heh)
>>>
>>> Dave's advice, along with others, have helped me out quite a bit.

>>
>>Dang, Brett, and your still here!!!?? I'm falling down on the job :-)

>
>So'm I--even after the trauma of meeting you in Real Life (tm).
>
>-denny-


Did he feed you, Denny?

Harry
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On Tue, 18 Sep 2007 17:57:12 -0700, "Dave Bugg" >
wrote:

>Denny Wheeler wrote:
>> On Tue, 18 Sep 2007 10:47:17 -0700, "Dave Bugg" >
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Brick wrote:
>>>
>>>> I was a newbie 4 years ago. I'm still here. I'm sure there's some
>>>> wish I wasn't.
>>>
>>> But then who'd be the afb curmudgoen?

>>
>> <denny raises his hand, and switches to one of his most-used sig
>> files>
>>
>> -Denny-
>> the curmudgeonly editor

>
>Maybe we should start a Curmudgeon Committee. It could be a sub-committee of
>the Cabal.


TINC, Dave

Harry

Who will be Treasurer and collect the fees.
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On Tue, 18 Sep 2007 09:28:36 -0700, the warlock society
> wrote:

>
>Dave Bugg wrote:
>> Fed Up wrote:
>> > "Dave Bugg" > > This is an unmoderated ng in which
>> > highly skilled bbq enthusiasts make up
>> >> the majority of subscribers. Everything you write IS everyone's
>> >> business and, as such, open to criticism or comment. There will be
>> >> strong disagreements, chiding, and corrections to bad information.
>> >> If that is disagreeable to you, feel free to leave...... cool?
>> >
>> >
>> > You know Dave you've probably driven more newbies off this NG than
>> > anybody with your unrelenting "purist" bullshit and I find that quite
>> > ironic since you yourself use a gas fired pit and and call your
>> > product "authentic bbq"

>>
>> Ah, the predictable anonymous leg-humper pops up yet again; too much of a
>> coward to post under its real name.
>>
>> I don't preach 'purist' anything. I preach excellence. You have always been
>> consistent in defending the lowest-common mediocre denominator. My main pit
>> has a gas-fired log lighter to get logs started, and goes through about a
>> cord of fruitwood a week. I also use a Cookshack electric powered pit. My
>> log burner puts out a better product with pork shoulders, butts and brisket
>> than the Cookshack, so I limit the Cookshack to ribs and chicken when and if
>> my log-burner is full. So much for the insult.
>>
>> Your other comment regarding newbies is meaningless sniping from a
>> know-nothing.
>>
>> --
>> Dave
>> www.davebbq.com

>
>you preach because you know you're a ****ing piece of shit loser who
>contributes little to society other than making fun of other people
>for not having the elite bbq skills you do...
>
>you rant out of sheer insecurity; I never provoked you or asked you a
>****ing thing. You just waddled your fat, inbred, backwoods ass into
>my conversation for no other reason than to satisfy your pathetic,
>dimwitted little ego.


Plonk!


Harry
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Harry Demidavicius wrote:
> On Tue, 18 Sep 2007 17:57:12 -0700, "Dave Bugg" >
> wrote:
>
>> Denny Wheeler wrote:
>>> On Tue, 18 Sep 2007 10:47:17 -0700, "Dave Bugg"
>>> > wrote:
>>>
>>>> Brick wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I was a newbie 4 years ago. I'm still here. I'm sure there's some
>>>>> wish I wasn't.
>>>>
>>>> But then who'd be the afb curmudgoen?
>>>
>>> <denny raises his hand, and switches to one of his most-used sig
>>> files>
>>>
>>> -Denny-
>>> the curmudgeonly editor

>>
>> Maybe we should start a Curmudgeon Committee. It could be a
>> sub-committee of the Cabal.

>
> TINC, Dave
>
> Harry
>
> Who will be Treasurer and collect the fees.


With the way the dollar's headed, you'd better ask for Canadian currency :-)

--
Dave
www.davebbq.com


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On Tue, 18 Sep 2007 11:33:19 -0700, "Dave Bugg" >
wrote:

>Nonnymus wrote:
>> Dave Bugg wrote:
>>> Nonnymus wrote:
>>>> Dave Bugg wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I spent three months running trials to see if I could dial the
>>>>> Cookshack in to reproduce the taste, texture, and tenderness of my
>>>>> Ole Hickory. I never could get brisket or pork butts/shoulders to
>>>>> taste as good. It does do chickens real well, and it does OK for
>>>>> ribs in a pinch. It also make a superb holding oven.
>>>

>How does the meat your Bradley produces compare in taste to your combustion
>smoker? I think Harry D. has a Bradley now, and since he has a long history
>using Kamados, I'd be interested to hear his comparison as well.


Apples and oranges, Dave. The Bradley is a one trick pony in my
stable. I've only done fish so far - Copper River Salmon [sockeye
this time] and trout. Both have turned out superbly. And Drop-dead
easy.

The K's will grill [#3] or slow cook [#7] or can go to blast furnace
range. I cannot tell you at this time how a brisket will taste from
the Bradley - but will report in. I like all my Cookers.

I haven't gone there yet, but don't think Bradley can rise above much
250. My Seattle friend has done great Leg-of-Lambs [Legs of Lamb/Legs
of Lambs] and swears by them. We'll be there for US Thanksgiving and
I expect he will demo this.

Harry
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