Barbecue (alt.food.barbecue) Discuss barbecue and grilling--southern style "low and slow" smoking of ribs, shoulders and briskets, as well as direct heat grilling of everything from burgers to salmon to vegetables.

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Default Boston Butt - Second Try

"Dana Myers" > wrote in message
. ..
> Basting the meat doesn't do a thing for the interior, it just
> affects the outside (at most). Basting with apple juice might
> add a little sweetness to the outside of the bark but that's

it.

That's why I was thinking I might need to baste it. The inside
of the meat was just fine; nice, tender, and juicy. The bark was
tough, though. The butt cooked for 15-3/4 hours, and I'm
thinking that's why it dried out. Maybe there's a rub I can use
on it, other than pepper and salt that will help next time?

> For ribs (pork ribs, if anyone has to ask), I keep an eye on

the
> cooker temp and know to check baby backs around 3.5 hours and

spares
> around 5.5 hours if the temperature is running where it

normally
> does.


Ribs sound good. They just happen to have them on sale at
Meijer's this week. Hmmm . . .

Thanks!

Karen C.



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On Sep 6, 6:08 am, "Karen C." > wrote:
> "Tutall" > wrote in message
>
> ups.com...
>
> > Well, first couple of hours not just the first one is the

> normal
> > concensus. But as to your question on how meat can be

> oversmoked?
>
> > What I've observed is that the smoke will condense and leave a

> layer
> > directly on the meat itself. I'm pretty sure that it's this
> > condensation is what most people refer to when they say

> something was
> > oversmoked.

>
> It did seem as if the inside of the meat had a good smoky flavor
> to it, too, but that may be just because I included a bit of the
> bark in the mix.


That's the way most people chop/shred the bark into the shredded mix.
The inner meat is really pretty bland. The bark is the spice if you
will.

>
> I think our challenge is going to be that DH likes things a lot
> smokier than DH or I do. I only used a small portion of the bark
> when I pulled the pork (because the rest of it was tough),


It's only tough by itself, chopped in and mixed with the rest of the
meat I think you'll be happier with the results.

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Karen C. wrote:
> "Dana Myers" > wrote in message
> . ..
>> Basting the meat doesn't do a thing for the interior, it just
>> affects the outside (at most). Basting with apple juice might
>> add a little sweetness to the outside of the bark but that's

> it.
>
> That's why I was thinking I might need to baste it. The inside
> of the meat was just fine; nice, tender, and juicy. The bark was
> tough, though. The butt cooked for 15-3/4 hours, and I'm
> thinking that's why it dried out. Maybe there's a rub I can use
> on it, other than pepper and salt that will help next time?


I usually paint the meat with plain yellow prepared mustard
before rubbing, and my rub usually contain paprika, but I think
that bark is normally a bit dry. Chopping it and mixing it in
allows the juice from the interior to soften it a bit; basting
while cooking just never seems to make a difference. The apple
juice just doesn't soak in. If anything, it might leave some
apple sugar on the outside.

>
>> For ribs (pork ribs, if anyone has to ask), I keep an eye on

> the
>> cooker temp and know to check baby backs around 3.5 hours and

> spares
>> around 5.5 hours if the temperature is running where it

> normally
>> does.

>
> Ribs sound good. They just happen to have them on sale at
> Meijer's this week. Hmmm . . .


I'd suggest starting with spares if you haven't barbecued
ribs before; they take longer but they're more forgiving
and cost less.

Dana
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On 4-Sep-2007, "kilikini" > wrote:

> Karen C. wrote:
> > DH works construction, so we had a late supper. Although I'm not
> > much on pork barbecue, I'd have to say it's pretty good. (Sure
> > beats the crockpot sandwiches, for sure!)
> >
> > The only complaint I have about it was the bark was too dry; but
> > the rest of it was nice and moist. I had to discard most of the
> > bark, but it was still plenty smoky tasting for me. (DH put all
> > the rejected bark in a plastic baggie and put it in the
> > refrigerator. Said he was going to eat it later. LOL!)
> >
> > DD really liked it too. She agreed with me, that the pork had
> > enough smoky taste. (So since I discarded most of the bark, I
> > think that we had too much hickory to begin with.)
> >
> > DH, OTOH, said it needed more smoke. If I know him, he'll try to
> > sneak in a bunch of hickory next time we cook. With that in
> > mind, I think I'll give him full reign and let him do it his way
> > next time.
> >
> > Now I want to smoke a ham <g>.
> >
> > Karen C.

>
> We always chop up the bark into the meat. It helps make the bark moister
> and adds more smoke flavor to the whole thing. Another bonus is that
> mixing
> it in makes the bark less tough. I'm not a big bark fan, either, but this
>
> way I find it totally edible.
>
> kili


I was just about to post the same thing as Kili, but then I saw here
header and thought I should see what she had to say about that
bark. Well dang me, she beat me to it. That dry, crusty looking
bark holds a lot of flavor from the smoking process. Not just smoke
flavor mind you, but a bunch of carmelized rub and meat too. I
think it also develops some natural sugars from the meat too, but I
may just be imagining that. At any rate, all of the bark gets mixed
back into the pile of shredded meat after the bark is well chopped.
Sometimes it's so hard I have to use a heavy cleaver on it. Not to
worry. It softens up after resting with the meat for an hour or more.

--
Brick(Save a tree, eat a Beaver)
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On 4-Sep-2007, "Karen C." > wrote:

> "Brick" > wrote in message
> news:7hdDi.6952$3R5.2626@trnddc05...
> > What Jim said. My pit has a sweet spot at about 275° dome temp

> (NB
> > Silver offset). That means it runs without fuss or attention at

> that temp.
> > Its near 300° near the firebox and more like 250° or less at

> the far end.
> > mostly I just watch the dome temp and
> > leave it the hell alone until it starts to drop off. Then, it's

> time to add
> > fuel.

>
> Hmmm . . . I'm using a SMW, and I have a (Maverick) thermometer
> probe at the rack, not far from the meat but not touching. Then
> I have the other probe in the meat. Is there a reason I should
> have another thermometer at the top of the dome?
>


No. My New Braunfels came with a hole up there and HD had this
big, neat therm on the rack looking lonesome, so I had to have it.
That was back when I chased the pit all day long trying to get it
to do what I thought it ought to do. Sound familiar? After a year
or so I got less finicky and the pit got more even tempered and we
learned to get along with one another. After the second year, I
started enjoying it more, probably because I didn't make anymore
coal tar. I can't say that I ever threw anything out, but I should have
a couple of times.

> > Everything gets cooked at those temperatures more or less. Big
> > pieces get placed close to the fire. Butts cook in 5 to 7

> hours, ribs 4
> > or less. . . .

>
> I don't know how you guys do it! The thought of cooking a bunch
> of stuff at one time gives me a headache <g>.


I can't walk and chew bubblegum at the same time, but cooking
several things at one time isn't hard. Just put like items together
and take them off when they're done. Don't even try to make two
butts finish at the same time. The guys in white coats will come
and get you.

>
> > I don't pay much attention to time.

>
> I learned that lesson with my first attempt <g>.
>
> > I don't F#$% with the vents to get it back to temp. I just dump

> in some
> > fuel and get back to my A/C livingroom. I check on the meat the

> first
> > time at about 4 hours. . . . shuffle them about every two hours

> to even out the exposure.
>
> I can only dream of the time when I'm that confident in what I'm
> doing! LOL!


Remember just two things. 1. "Don't sweat the small stuff". and
2. "It's all small stuff".

>
> Thanks!
>
> Karen C.


Just one final note. You ain't TFM® so don't try running that WSM
without a water/sand pan just yet. That pan is a big crutch that
you probably won't need after another year or so.

--
Brick(Save a tree, eat a Beaver)


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"Tutall" > wrote in message
oups.com...
> That's the way most people chop/shred the bark into the

shredded mix.
> The inner meat is really pretty bland. The bark is the spice if

you
> will. . . .
> It's only tough by itself, chopped in and mixed with the rest

of the
> meat I think you'll be happier with the results.


Aha! That makes sense. Will do.

But is it supposed to be that tough? I'm just wondering if maybe
I didn't overdo it because it seems awfully dry.

Thanks!

Karen C.


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"Matt" > wrote in message
t...
> Karen, that is why I never start butts in the morning anymore.

Now I always
> start my butts at night and do an over-night smoke.


I thought about doing that this time but decided, since DH was
planning to be in on it, that it would be a good learning
experience for the both of us. I'm going to try the Minion
Method next time, though.

> I usually throw the
> butt(s) in the smoker around 6/7/8 pm, then it usually takes an

hour or two
> to get the smoker to settle down where it will maintain a

pretty constant
> 210-220, and then it's off to bed to let the smoker do it's

thing. I get up . . .
> hours until it's time to eat. When doing a single butt, they

are always
> done by noon.


Gosh, you make it sound sooooooooo simple <g>. I'm going to have
to try that!

> I've always had the same problem as you when starting them in

the morning, I
> never managed to get them done in time for dinner that same

day. By
> starting them the night before I have the option of having them

for lunch OR
> dinner. (usually both)


That sounds like a much better way to do it to me!

> I've also found my maverick smoker thermometer to be invaluable

during these
> long smokes.


That's a neat little gadget. I can't imagine being a newbie and
trying to smoke without it.

Thanks for your feedback. I appreciate it very much!

Karen C.


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"Brick" > wrote in message
news:TW%Di.17223$eD5.14724@trnddc07...
> No. My New Braunfels came with a hole up there and HD had this
> big, neat therm on the rack looking lonesome, so I had to have

it.

That's good to know.

> That was back when I chased the pit all day long trying to get

it
> to do what I thought it ought to do. Sound familiar?


LOL! Yep, it certainly does! <g>

> After a year
> or so I got less finicky and the pit got more even tempered and

we
> learned to get along with one another. After the second year, I
> started enjoying it more, probably because I didn't make

anymore
> coal tar. I can't say that I ever threw anything out, but I

should have
> a couple of times.


That makes me feel better too <g>.

> and take them off when they're done. Don't even try to make two
> butts finish at the same time. The guys in white coats will

come
> and get you.


Duly noted--but they may come and get me, anyway <g>.

> Remember just two things. 1. "Don't sweat the small stuff". and
> 2. "It's all small stuff".


I'll try to remember 8-)

> Just one final note. You ain't TFM® so don't try running that

WSM
> without a water/sand pan just yet. That pan is a big crutch

that
> you probably won't need after another year or so.


I wouldn't think of running it without water or sand, so no worry
there.

Thanks a bunch!

Karen C.


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"Dana Myers" > wrote in message
...
> I usually paint the meat with plain yellow prepared mustard
> before rubbing, and my rub usually contain paprika, but I think
> that bark is normally a bit dry. Chopping it and mixing it in
> allows the juice from the interior to soften it a bit; basting
> while cooking just never seems to make a difference. The apple
> juice just doesn't soak in. If anything, it might leave some
> apple sugar on the outside.


This is good to know. I guess that's why we see people chopping
their pork with two cleavers on a butcher block, huh?

> I'd suggest starting with spares if you haven't barbecued
> ribs before; they take longer but they're more forgiving
> and cost less.


I'm all about working with the forgiving meats right now <g>.
Thanks for the tip!

Karen C.



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"Brick" > wrote in message
news:Rq%Di.7843$3R5.5874@trnddc05...
> bark. Well dang me, she beat me to it. That dry, crusty looking
> bark holds a lot of flavor from the smoking process. Not just

smoke
> flavor mind you, but a bunch of carmelized rub and meat too. I
> think it also develops some natural sugars from the meat too,

but I
> may just be imagining that. At any rate, all of the bark gets

mixed
> back into the pile of shredded meat after the bark is well

chopped.
> Sometimes it's so hard I have to use a heavy cleaver on it. Not

to
> worry. It softens up after resting with the meat for an hour or

more.

I'm glad to hear this. DH will be even more glad to hear it <g>.
Thanks so much!

Karen C.




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> Aha! That makes sense. Will do.
>
> But is it supposed to be that tough? I'm just wondering if maybe
> I didn't overdo it because it seems awfully dry.
>


Well, it IS called *bark* after all, and not for the sound dogs
make. ;-)

Yeah, it's normal to resemble jerky. Most of us do things to assist
it's formation, like using brown sugar.


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"Tutall" > wrote in message
oups.com...
> Well, it IS called *bark* after all, and not for the sound dogs
> make. ;-)


Good point.

> Yeah, it's normal to resemble jerky. Most of us do things to

assist
> it's formation, like using brown sugar.


I will, too, now <g>.

Thanks!

Karen C.


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Denny Wheeler wrote:
> On Thu, 06 Sep 2007 10:28:55 -0700, Dana Myers >
> wrote:
>
>>> Ribs sound good. They just happen to have them on sale at
>>> Meijer's this week. Hmmm . . .

>> I'd suggest starting with spares if you haven't barbecued
>> ribs before; they take longer but they're more forgiving
>> and cost less.

>
> And they're meatier--for my money, better than back ribs, and a MUCH
> better value.


Preach on, Brother Denny. Though I still cook baby backs every now
and again, I'm more likely to do spares these days. I've had friends
wrinkle their brow at the thought of spares instead of baby backs,
but they change their tune after they clean the meat off the first bone
with a few gently tugs.

Dana
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On 7-Sep-2007, "Karen C." > wrote:

> "Tutall" > wrote in message
> oups.com...
> > That's the way most people chop/shred the bark into the

> shredded mix.
> > The inner meat is really pretty bland. The bark is the spice if

> you
> > will. . . .
> > It's only tough by itself, chopped in and mixed with the rest

> of the
> > meat I think you'll be happier with the results.

>
> Aha! That makes sense. Will do.
>
> But is it supposed to be that tough? I'm just wondering if maybe
> I didn't overdo it because it seems awfully dry.
>
> Thanks!
>
> Karen C.


Karen, I bought a 17 oz cleaver and a sacrificial cutting board
just for the purpose of dealing with BBQ bark. It's well worth it.
Although it usually looks burnt and is often quite hard, it doesn't
taste burnt and after blending with the rest of the meat and
sitting awhile to mellow it really enhances the overall taste.

On the other hand, if it tastes like tar to you, it probably is and
should be discarded.

I always separate the bark as best I can from the rest of the
meat as I pull it. I chop the bark separately to avoid any
possibility that I will mix crap into my meat. Only when it meets
my approval do I mix it into the main batch. It's been a long
time since I've had to discard any bark, but I will pitch it in
a New York second of it doesn't measure up.

--
Brick(Save a tree, eat a Beaver)
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On Sep 9, 7:00 am, "Brick" > wrote:

> I always separate the bark as best I can from the rest of the
> meat as I pull it. I chop the bark separately to avoid any
> possibility that I will mix crap into my meat. Only when it meets
> my approval do I mix it into the main batch. It's been a long
> time since I've had to discard any bark, but I will pitch it in
> a New York second of it doesn't measure up.
>


Brick, that's the first mention I've ever heard of anyone doing that.
Never occurred to me to do so, figuring firstly there's no such thing
as bad bark, and if there was any of lower quality it would be mixed
in with so much goodness nobody would ever notice. *shrug*. Or maybe
I'm just a lazy so and so.

Anyone else bother to do this I wonder?



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"Brick" > wrote in message
news:c0TEi.3681$d01.2536@trnddc08...
> Karen, I bought a 17 oz cleaver and a sacrificial cutting board
> just for the purpose of dealing with BBQ bark. It's well worth

it.
> Although it usually looks burnt and is often quite hard, it

doesn't
> taste burnt and after blending with the rest of the meat and
> sitting awhile to mellow it really enhances the overall taste.


I'm glad to hear this. We'll get a cleaver and cutting board for
that purpose too.

> On the other hand, if it tastes like tar to you, it probably is

and
> should be discarded.


It didn't seem to have a bad taste; it was just tough. I never
dreamed it could be chopped up and used. I only put in maybe a
fifth of the bark. It was good, but I'm sure it would have been
better with the rest of the bark added. I'll know next time <g>.

> I always separate the bark as best I can from the rest of the
> meat as I pull it. I chop the bark separately to avoid any
> possibility that I will mix crap into my meat. Only when it

meets
> my approval do I mix it into the main batch. It's been a long


Thanks! That's a good tip!

Karen C.


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"frohe" > wrote in message
...
> The same can be done with the "dry end" of a brisket flat.

Just chop it up,
> add some BBQ sauce and VOILA! chopped beef sandwiches.


Now, THAT'S something I look forward to trying, seeing as how
brisket is MY favorite <g>. (Just don't have the nerve to
attempt brisket yet. Better throw a few more pigs and chickens
on the smoker before I even think of attempting that one <g>.)

Thanks!

Karen C.


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"Karen C." > wrote in message
...
> "frohe" > wrote in message
> ...
>> The same can be done with the "dry end" of a brisket flat.

> Just chop it up,
>> add some BBQ sauce and VOILA! chopped beef sandwiches.

>
> Now, THAT'S something I look forward to trying, seeing as how
> brisket is MY favorite <g>. (Just don't have the nerve to
> attempt brisket yet. Better throw a few more pigs and chickens
> on the smoker before I even think of attempting that one <g>.)
>
> Thanks!
>
> Karen C.
>


My opinion on that Karen.... go for it. What's a brisket gonna run ya there
where you are? Here, I get 12-14lb'ers for about $18-$20. What's the worst
thing that can happen? You end up with a beef brisket that although not
perfect, is still edible.

I'm still trying to get it tender AND juicy. The last one I did was prob.
the best, but still wasn't as juicy in the flat as I think it can be. I
changed how I did my slather/rub, not sure if that had anything to do with
it or not though.

>



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"43fan" > wrote in message
. ..
> My opinion on that Karen.... go for it. What's a brisket gonna

run ya there
> where you are? Here, I get 12-14lb'ers for about $18-$20.

What's the worst
> thing that can happen? You end up with a beef brisket that

although not
> perfect, is still edible.


Good point. We won't mind, as long as it's still edible. The
ones I've seen at Sam's are about $20 to $22, so it'd still be
cheaper than going across town to the BBQ joint we frequent.

> I'm still trying to get it tender AND juicy. The last one I

did was prob.
> the best, but still wasn't as juicy in the flat as I think it

can be. I
> changed how I did my slather/rub, not sure if that had anything

to do with
> it or not though.


I guess it's like anything else, in that we just have to keep
trying. (I've been giving this speech to my 16-y.o., so I guess
I should record it and play it for myself <g>.

I've got a couple of big old roasters I need to work on next, but
I'll get up the nerve for the brisket soon.

Thanks for the encouragement!

Karen C.


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On 12-Sep-2007, "Karen C." > wrote:

> "43fan" > wrote in message
> . ..
> > My opinion on that Karen.... go for it. What's a brisket gonna

> run ya there
> > where you are?


<snip>

>
> I've got a couple of big old roasters I need to work on next, but
> I'll get up the nerve for the brisket soon.
>
> Thanks for the encouragement!
>
> Karen C.


Soak one to thos big old roasters for 48 hours in TFM®'s brine
and smoke it pretty warm at 275° to 350°F until It gets above
165° everywhere. Wrap it good and let it steep in it's own juice
for an hour or more in a well insulated cooler. You shouldn't need
any tools to eat it and if you bite the bullet (sic) and use enough
heat when you cook it, the skin will be good too.

Remember that birds don't benefit from low and slow like butts
and brisket do. And if you do end up with a rubbery skin, just
peel it off and fry it. You don't have to tell anybody how you got
it crisp.

--
Brick(Save a tree, eat a Beaver)


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"Brick" > wrote in message
news:JAZFi.9508$He1.3419@trnddc03...
> Soak one to thos big old roasters for 48 hours in TFM®'s brine
> and smoke it pretty warm at 275° to 350°F until It gets above
> 165° everywhere. Wrap it good and let it steep in it's own

juice
> for an hour or more in a well insulated cooler. You shouldn't

need
> any tools to eat it and if you bite the bullet (sic) and use

enough
> heat when you cook it, the skin will be good too.


Sounds good and fairly easy (famous last words, I know <g>). But
pardon my ignorance, but what is TFM?

> Remember that birds don't benefit from low and slow like butts
> and brisket do. And if you do end up with a rubbery skin, just
> peel it off and fry it. You don't have to tell anybody how you

got
> it crisp.


Great! I love having a back-up plan <g>.

Thanks!

Karen C.


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Karen C. wrote:
> "Brick" > wrote in message
> news:JAZFi.9508$He1.3419@trnddc03...
>> Soak one to thos big old roasters for 48 hours in TFM®'s brine
>> and smoke it pretty warm at 275° to 350°F until It gets above
>> 165° everywhere. Wrap it good and let it steep in it's own

> juice
>> for an hour or more in a well insulated cooler. You shouldn't

> need
>> any tools to eat it and if you bite the bullet (sic) and use

> enough
>> heat when you cook it, the skin will be good too.

>
> Sounds good and fairly easy (famous last words, I know <g>). But
> pardon my ignorance, but what is TFM?


TFM® = The Fat Man®
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On 12-Sep-2007, "Karen C." > wrote:

> "Brick" > wrote in message
> news:JAZFi.9508$He1.3419@trnddc03...
> > Soak one to thos big old roasters for 48 hours in TFM®'s brine
> > and smoke it pretty warm at 275° to 350°F until It gets above
> > 165° everywhere. Wrap it good and let it steep in it's own

> juice
> > for an hour or more in a well insulated cooler. You shouldn't

> need
> > any tools to eat it and if you bite the bullet (sic) and use

> enough
> > heat when you cook it, the skin will be good too.

>
> Sounds good and fairly easy (famous last words, I know <g>). But
> pardon my ignorance, but what is TFM?
>
> > Remember that birds don't benefit from low and slow like butts
> > and brisket do. And if you do end up with a rubbery skin, just
> > peel it off and fry it. You don't have to tell anybody how you

> got
> > it crisp.

>
> Great! I love having a back-up plan <g>.
>
> Thanks!
>
> Karen C.


TFM® (alt +0174) aka The Fat Man. He's currently raving under
the nom de plume of "Bubba bubba boo" or some such nonsense.

--
Brick(Save a tree, eat a Beaver)
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Default Boston Butt - Second Try

"Dana Myers" > wrote in message
. ..
> TFM® = The Fat Man®


Thanks for the clarification.

Karen C.


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"Brick" > wrote in message
news:lQ%Fi.10842$He1.8536@trnddc03...
> TFM® (alt +0174) aka The Fat Man. He's currently raving under
> the nom de plume of "Bubba bubba boo" or some such nonsense.


Thanks for clarifying. I googled and found the recipe. Looks
good!

Karen C.




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On Wed, 12 Sep 2007 23:23:00 -0400, "Karen C."
> wrote:

>"Dana Myers" > wrote in message
...
>> TFM® = The Fat Man®

>
>Thanks for the clarification.
>
>Karen C.
>

Who isn't [Fat]

Harry
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