Barbecue (alt.food.barbecue) Discuss barbecue and grilling--southern style "low and slow" smoking of ribs, shoulders and briskets, as well as direct heat grilling of everything from burgers to salmon to vegetables.

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Default Smoke Ring Question

Am I too picky, or what?

As I mentioned in another couple of posts, DH and I are just
venturing into smoking our own meat. We're starting with a
Boston butt. Pork is DD and DH's favorite, so we'll have to
master that before we move on to brisket, which is my favorite.

My question is about the smoke ring on brisket. How much of a
ring should there be on *good* brisket?

We frequent the only BBQ joint in the Louisville area (that I
know of--and we drive 45 minutes, one way, to get there). The
food is inconsistent, though. It can be wonderful one night and
crummy the next time. I've often complained to DH that the
brisket isn't right and that there should be a visible smoke
ring. He says I don't know what I'm talking about and that it's
just fine. Used to be, when you got brisket there, you could see
the smoke ring--maybe up to a half an inch, just under the bark.
Lately, you're lucky to see even a smidgen of a ring (more often
than not, I can't see it). I say the texture of the meat is
different too. I say they must be taking shortcuts with the
smoking process. (I can definitely tell the difference in the
taste, but I'm known for a keen sense of taste and smell.)

Am I full of beans, or is there something to my way of thinking?

Karen C.


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Default Smoke Ring Question


"Karen C." > wrote in message
> My question is about the smoke ring on brisket. How much of a
> ring should there be on *good* brisket?
>
> We frequent the only BBQ joint in the Louisville area (that I
> know of--and we drive 45 minutes, one way, to get there). The
> food is inconsistent, though. It can be wonderful one night and
> crummy the next time. I've often complained to DH that the
> brisket isn't right and that there should be a visible smoke
> ring. He says I don't know what I'm talking about and that it's
> just fine. Used to be, when you got brisket there, you could see
> the smoke ring--maybe up to a half an inch, just under the bark.
> Lately, you're lucky to see even a smidgen of a ring (more often
> than not, I can't see it). I say the texture of the meat is
> different too. I say they must be taking shortcuts with the
> smoking process. (I can definitely tell the difference in the
> taste, but I'm known for a keen sense of taste and smell.)


I've had good and not so good brisket with and without much of a smoke ring.
The color change is due to a chemical reaction of the wood smoke that
contains nitrites and nitrates with the myoglobin in the meat. The fact
that it exists does not mean it is going to taste good. Lots of bbq'rs get
obsessed with the ring and how big it is.

Sounds like the place you are talking about is changing their method and are
very inconsistent.


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Default Smoke Ring Question

"Edwin Pawlowski" > wrote in message
. ..
> I've had good and not so good brisket with and without much of

a smoke ring.
> The color change is due to a chemical reaction of the wood

smoke that
> contains nitrites and nitrates with the myoglobin in the meat.

The fact
> that it exists does not mean it is going to taste good. Lots

of bbq'rs get
> obsessed with the ring and how big it is.


This is good to know. But the thing that struck me is this place
used to ALWAYS have a smoke ring on the brisket, and it was
pretty much always good stuff. For the past year or so, there
seems to be a noticeable difference. Half the time it's very
good, the other half of the time it's either mediocre or barely
edible. They claim to smoke for a full 12 hours, but I'd almost
swear that they were using a regular oven sometimes, instead of
the smoker. I don't think they'd have any less flavor if they
did on those bad days. 8-( I've noticed no visible smoke ring
on the bad days, so I figured maybe there was something to my
theory.

> Sounds like the place you are talking about is changing their

method and are
> very inconsistent.


Yep, that's putting it mildly. Such a shame!

Karen C.


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Default Smoke Ring Question

"Abe" > wrote in message
...
> Well, I'm no expert, but I do smoke meats occassionally, and I

notice
> a definite correlation between how much I like the results when

there
> is a nicely developed smoke ring.


I'm glad to know I'm not the only one who has that experience.

>The times when I've run out of wood
> early and had to rely only on lump for the majority of the

smoking
> session have always yielded inferior results tastewise, even

though
> the meat was just as done in both cases.


Hmmm . . . Is lump not the best way to go (at least, for a
beginner)?

> If you can, talk to the owner and tell them your observation.

Maybe
> they don't think anyone is noticing. I'm pretty sure your input

would
> be welcome if it's given constructively.


Good idea. I would think he'd have to be halfway blind and have
dead taste buds not to know, though. But now that you mention
it, he used to be there all the time, and we very rarely see him
on our weekly visits anymore. Could very well be he's not doing
the smoking now but has delegated that job to others. Maybe he's
just given the whole place over to others to manage, as well.

Karen C.


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Default Smoke Ring Question


"Karen C." > wrote in message
...
> Am I too picky, or what?
>
> As I mentioned in another couple of posts, DH and I are just
> venturing into smoking our own meat. We're starting with a
> Boston butt. Pork is DD and DH's favorite, so we'll have to
> master that before we move on to brisket, which is my favorite.
>
> My question is about the smoke ring on brisket. How much of a
> ring should there be on *good* brisket?
>
> We frequent the only BBQ joint in the Louisville area (that I
> know of--and we drive 45 minutes, one way, to get there). The
> food is inconsistent, though. It can be wonderful one night and
> crummy the next time. I've often complained to DH that the
> brisket isn't right and that there should be a visible smoke
> ring. He says I don't know what I'm talking about and that it's
> just fine. Used to be, when you got brisket there, you could see
> the smoke ring--maybe up to a half an inch, just under the bark.
> Lately, you're lucky to see even a smidgen of a ring (more often
> than not, I can't see it). I say the texture of the meat is
> different too. I say they must be taking shortcuts with the
> smoking process. (I can definitely tell the difference in the
> taste, but I'm known for a keen sense of taste and smell.)
>
> Am I full of beans, or is there something to my way of thinking?
>
> Karen C.
>
>


IMHO a smokering is an Internet myth. You don't need one to have a good
brisket.
It do make it purtty though.
--
James A. "Big Jim" Whitten

www.lazyq.com




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Default Smoke Ring Question


"Karen C." > wrote in message
>
> Hmmm . . . Is lump not the best way to go (at least, for a
> beginner)?


The advantage of lump is its purity. Charcoal, by definition, is carbon.
The other ingredients of the wood have been burned away. It is those other
ingredients that react with the meat to make a smoke ring. Of course, lump
charcoal is not 100% pur carbon, but it does not have all the fillers and
other materials found in preformed manufactured briquettes.



>
> Good idea. I would think he'd have to be halfway blind and have
> dead taste buds not to know, though. But now that you mention
> it, he used to be there all the time, and we very rarely see him
> on our weekly visits anymore. Could very well be he's not doing
> the smoking now but has delegated that job to others. Maybe he's
> just given the whole place over to others to manage, as well.


I think that may be the problem, poor managements rather than lack of smoke
ring. The hired help may have found short cuts and they don't care about
the end result. So far, you are still going there right? See the owner.
Tell him you will be back next week and if the brisket is not back to the
quality is used to be, you won't ever come back again.
--
Ed
http://pages.cthome.net/edhome/


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Default Smoke Ring Question

"Edwin Pawlowski" > wrote in message
. net...
> The advantage of lump is its purity. Charcoal, by definition,

is carbon.
> The other ingredients of the wood have been burned away. It is

those other
> ingredients that react with the meat to make a smoke ring. Of

course, lump
> charcoal is not 100% pur carbon, but it does not have all the

fillers and
> other materials found in preformed manufactured briquettes.


I guess I'm confused (not surprising, being a rank newbie, though
<g>). I thought Abe was talking about using strictly wood,
rather than lump.

> I think that may be the problem, poor managements rather than

lack of smoke
> ring. The hired help may have found short cuts and they don't

care about
> the end result.


That could be. The advertising for the place says he smokes his
meat for a full 12 hours, but I have to wonder these days.

> So far, you are still going there right?


Not by my choice. We're only still going because DH insists on
going once a week for their pork.

> See the owner.
> Tell him you will be back next week and if the brisket is not

back to the
> quality is used to be, you won't ever come back again.


I'll keep an eye out for him and try to talk with him.

I'm hoping we'll learn how to make decent BBQ ourselves so we
won't have to rely on others to satisfy our craving for the good
stuff.

Thanks!

Karen C.



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Default Smoke Ring Question

"Big Jim" > wrote in message
...
> IMHO a smokering is an Internet myth. You don't need one to

have a good
> brisket.
> It do make it purtty though.


Could be I've just had a "placebo effect." I just assumed there
was something to the ring because the brisket has definitely not
been as tasty when it was missing.

Karen C.


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Default Smoke Ring Question

"Abe" > wrote in message
...
> No. I use Lazzari mesquite lump for the heat, and add wood

chunks for
> the smoke.


I did misunderstand. Thanks for the clarification.

Karen C.


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"Big Jim" > wrote in message
...
>
>
> IMHO a smokering is an Internet myth. You don't need one to have a good
> brisket.
> It do make it purtty though.
> --
> James A. "Big Jim" Whitten
>
>
www.lazyq.com
>


What Big Jim said.

If I want to, I can get a very beautiful smoke ring on a brisket while
cooking it in the oven. Has nothing at all to do with the taste or smoke
content.

BOB
(only did it twice...once to see it for myself, and once to prove it to some
friends.)




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" BOB" > wrote in message
...
> If I want to, I can get a very beautiful smoke ring on a

brisket while
> cooking it in the oven. Has nothing at all to do with the

taste or smoke
> content.


So much for that theory. I don't know what their problem is; but
when they're "off," it definitely doesn't taste like it's been
smoked 8-(

Karen C.


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Default Smoke Ring Question

"Karen C." > wrote in message
...
>" BOB" > wrote in message
> ...
>> If I want to, I can get a very beautiful smoke ring on a

> brisket while
>> cooking it in the oven. Has nothing at all to do with the

> taste or smoke
>> content.

>
> So much for that theory. I don't know what their problem is; but
> when they're "off," it definitely doesn't taste like it's been
> smoked 8-(
>
> Karen C.
>
>


Like Edwin said...maybe the day-help is taking short cuts and the owner
doesn't know?

Also, you're here, and you mentioned learning to smoke your own. That's the
best idea.

I may have missed it, but what equipment are you cooking on?

BOB


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" BOB" > wrote in message
...
> Like Edwin said...maybe the day-help is taking short cuts and

the owner
> doesn't know?


I'm thinking that's probably the case.

> Also, you're here, and you mentioned learning to smoke your

own. That's the
> best idea.


Yep, that's our goal.

> I may have missed it, but what equipment are you cooking on?


We just got a Weber Smokey Mountain. Can't wait to break it in!

Karen C.


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Default Smoke Ring Question

Ring or not, you know if it's good. Speak to the manager/owner. I know
I'd want it brought to my attention if I ran a restaurant.

He could be (as mentioned) passing along the job to someone else, hiring
a new cook who doesn't understand the process (and why it's done how
it's done) or maybe he was busier than normal and needed to take a
shortcut. You never know. But talking with him would help. Invite him
to sit down with you and explain it.

We frequent a local restaurant in town here. It was our favorite. Then
the owners sold it, and the new owners tried to cut costs. Suddenly
their steak was garbage (they used to have 1.5/2" sirloins, yes,
sirloins, that to me were as good as filets!), their fish was "fishy"
tasting, and their salads even got worse. I normally got the salmon
when I Was there, as that was still pretty good.

I knew he changed where he bought his meat. And it was BAD. We didn't
go for a while, and when we did go back, he asked us where we'd been (we
were VERY regular weekly customers).

I explained it to him and a week later their steaks (at least that) were
back to normal. Although, in the meantime I discoved Sam's club meat
and bought a new grill (finally) and am doing steaks just as good, if
not better now.. lol! My smoking experience actually helped my hot and
fast steak grilling, mainly the dry rubs I use on them.

Bottom line, talk to them! They WANT to hear how to make things better.
It's in their best interest.
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"Bradley V. Stone" > wrote in message
...
> Ring or not, you know if it's good. Speak to the

manager/owner. I know
> I'd want it brought to my attention if I ran a restaurant.
>
> He could be (as mentioned) passing along the job to someone

else, hiring
> a new cook who doesn't understand the process (and why it's

done how
> it's done) or maybe he was busier than normal and needed to

take a
> shortcut. You never know. But talking with him would help.

Invite him
> to sit down with you and explain it.


Will do. I think this must be what's going on, as we used to see
the owner in there any day we went there. I don't think we've
seen him but maybe twice in the past year. Will try to speak
with him next time we see him.

> their steak was garbage (they used to have 1.5/2" sirloins,

yes,
> sirloins, that to me were as good as filets!) . . . Although,

in the meantime
> I discoved Sam's club meat and bought a new grill (finally) and

am doing steaks just as good, if
> not better now.. lol! My smoking experience actually helped my

hot and
> fast steak grilling, mainly the dry rubs I use on them.


Now, that's something to aspire to! I'd love to be able to
master grilling a great steak. A small chain of stores in our
community used to sell the best meat (prime grade)--up until
about 1992. Then they began offering choice instead. There's a
world of difference, and I can't find a really good local
supplier for prime-grade meat now. 8-(

Karen C.




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Default Smoke Ring Question

Karen C. wrote:
> "Bradley V. Stone" > wrote in message
> ...
>> Ring or not, you know if it's good. Speak to the

> manager/owner. I know
>> I'd want it brought to my attention if I ran a restaurant.
>>
>> He could be (as mentioned) passing along the job to someone

> else, hiring
>> a new cook who doesn't understand the process (and why it's

> done how
>> it's done) or maybe he was busier than normal and needed to

> take a
>> shortcut. You never know. But talking with him would help.

> Invite him
>> to sit down with you and explain it.

>
> Will do. I think this must be what's going on, as we used to see
> the owner in there any day we went there. I don't think we've
> seen him but maybe twice in the past year. Will try to speak
> with him next time we see him.
>
>> their steak was garbage (they used to have 1.5/2" sirloins,

> yes,
>> sirloins, that to me were as good as filets!) . . . Although,

> in the meantime
>> I discoved Sam's club meat and bought a new grill (finally) and

> am doing steaks just as good, if
>> not better now.. lol! My smoking experience actually helped my

> hot and
>> fast steak grilling, mainly the dry rubs I use on them.

>
> Now, that's something to aspire to! I'd love to be able to
> master grilling a great steak. A small chain of stores in our
> community used to sell the best meat (prime grade)--up until
> about 1992. Then they began offering choice instead. There's a
> world of difference, and I can't find a really good local
> supplier for prime-grade meat now. 8-(
>
> Karen C.
>
>


Try it on your WSM with the center section removed. You'll like the
results.

Dan
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Default Smoke Ring Question

"Karen C."wrote...
>" BOB" wrote ...
>
>> I may have missed it, but what equipment are you cooking on?

>
> We just got a Weber Smokey Mountain. Can't wait to break it in!
>
> Karen C.


According to many "experts" on BBQ, that is the BEST smoker for a beginner.
It's also the best value.
I have a fairly large smoker family, and a WSM has been the latest addition,
and it's also the cheapest.

You'll love it.

BOB


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" BOB" > wrote in message
...
> According to many "experts" on BBQ, that is the BEST smoker for

a beginner.
> It's also the best value.
> I have a fairly large smoker family, and a WSM has been the

latest addition,
> and it's also the cheapest.
> You'll love it.


I'm glad to hear it. I've only gotten to use it one time, but
I'm looking forward to giving it regular workouts <g>.

Thanks!

Karen C.


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"Dan" <intrceptor@gmaildotcom> wrote in message
.. .
> Try it on your WSM with the center section removed. You'll

like the
> results.


Good idea! I'd never have thought to try that on my own.
Thanks!

Karen C.


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