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Default Ebay Smoker Scams Warning

Hi BBQ guys,

Thought I’d give you a heads up on recent ebay scams that might suck
you in. Turns out that the most frequent scams of the past year have
involved autos, cameras, laptops and commercial ovens (who would have
thought!). It appears that commercial smokers get tossed into the
same category by the scammers.

I do large scale outdoor catering and also a ribfest circuit, so I am
occasionally looking for some big ticket items on ebay. For you
backyard Q’ers, the items you will be looking for are probably not
being targeted, but for those of you who are planning to graduate to a
professional BBQ role, or even a competition role, be very wary of
ebay listings for the larger smokers. Buddy of mine recently got
burned for a deposit on a southern pride and I recently saw a fairly
small gator-pits trailered smoker rig on Ebay that I know was
fraudulently listed and it could only cater to maybe 100 people. So
just be careful, even a $200 deposit on a one thousand dollar sale is
enough to interest some scammers.

The scammers are targeting commercial ovens (including smokers)
because they are not only fairly big ticket items, but they are way
too heavy for USPS or regular UPS and require a common carrier
(freight line) service. This allows them to run their fake shipper
scam, a variant of the standard pay now and maybe or maybe not get
your item later routine.

If you win an auction, the scammer provides a shipper who will act not
only as shipper, but a supposedly trustworthy 3rd party escrow agent
for the purchase price as well. You are required only to pay a
deposit, not to the seller but to the shipper (and sometimes, not even
a deposit, just a credit card number and various personal
information). You only pay the remainder of the sale price the day
the item arrives, and you even have 14 days to inspect and accept or
return to seller, whereupon the shipper will refund everything.
Sounds good, huh?

That delivery day, of course, never comes. The scammers, meanwhile,
are after two things: your money, first and, if they can’t get your
money, your identity. They typically have no merchandise whatsoever,
but they copy legit listings, including the photos, then relist them
months later with their new account. For their bigger scores,
especially the high-end auto sale scams, they even create phony
records of ebay feedback by making a bunch of 1 cent buys or sells, or
they hijack someone else’s legit account in order to have the existing
feedback. They use phony shipping companies (don’t be fooled by a
good looking shipping or escrow website, it’s easy to copy and paste a
legit one, then edit the html script), phony telephone numbers (they
will appear to be US-based and do have US area codes, but, thanks to
VOIP, they are untraceable and usually directed to Romania, Russia or
China), phony email addies, phony names and will try to direct you to
pay "off of Ebay" via Western Union or a phony escrow company.. It’s
estimated that at any one time, 30% of the online shippers and 99% of
the online escrow companies are absolutely fake.

There are a number of sites which give lots of tips for spotting
scams. Do a google search for ‘ebay scams’ "craigslist scams" and
for ‘419 fraud’. Some of these sites also maintain databases of
current fraudulent escrow companies, shippers, etc. (e.g.
http://db.aa419.org/fakebankslist.php ), These sites are excellent
guides and eye-openers.

Some general tips specific to Ebay scams:


1. Look carefully at the listing:

Check how long seller has been registered with ebay. Brand new seller
with no history is not a good thing (but is sometimes legit, so you
have to keep checking other indications)
Check the feedback, see what kind of items have been bought or sold.
(Remember that Ebay identities can be hijacked; good feedback is not
always valid feedback for the actual seller/scammer.)

Check for recently changed ebay ID (there’s very, very few legit
reasons for this)

Check out what other items seller has on Ebay. People with multiple
listings or Ebay stores are more likely to be legit than the
single-item seller.

Check "ships to" in listing. If it’s a big heavy item and the seller
says he ships to north & south America, Europe and Asia, he is full of
shit. Unlikely that any one in their right mind would be willing to
pay transoceanic shipping on a 2000 lb item that isn’t rare and that
only cost 6 grand; no US based seller would want to even mess with the
paperwork. Scammers just want to have the largest reach possible for
potential victims.


2. Communicate with seller, and, unless you do it by phone, do it
ONLY through ebay:

For smokers or pits, while auction is still on, ask questions about
the item that only someone with smoking/bbq’ing experience could
answer. If you get some BS like "I’m selling this for someone else’,
the red flag is up. Insist upon talking with this "someone else".

In seller’s communications, look for key phrases like ‘sudden family
emergency’, ‘sudden relocation by my employer’, ‘due to illness’,
‘original owner deceased’ "unit is already crated and at the shipper‘s
warehouse". These will be used as excuses for all kinds of things.

If seller never addresses you by name in emails, he is using a form
email and it’s being sent out to a lot of people.

Look for bad English, bad spelling on emails, especially if original
listing info has good grammar and spelling. Most of these guys are
not US based and will have grammar that is not only off, but stiff.
Look for language that is not idiomatically appropriate to where the
seller is supposed to be located and what sort of item seller is
listing. General rule, if they say they’re in Texas but they don’t
sound or write like a Texan, they’re not in Texas.

If seller wants to do the deal "outside of ebay", run (or report fraud
to ebay); if seller directs payment through western union, run; if
seller provides the name of an escrow company, offers free shipping,
or does anything that seems just too nice or too helpful, he’s only
being helpful in getting your money or your identity.

Any time you start getting ‘fire-drilled’, you are being scammed
(e.g., seller offers you a buy-it-now price for an ‘off of Ebay" deal,
but says he needs some cash today to hold the item for you, won’t let
it go for that price after another day, etc.)

If you lose an auction but afterwards the seller emails you directly
(not via Ebay’s "2nd chance" facility), saying something went wrong
with the deal, buyer couldn’t get the money together etc., and offers
to sell the item to you, watch out!

Look for any discrepancies between the original listing and what
seller says in email communications, especially if his location
suddenly changes or if the item goes from "pick up only" to "will
ship".. Always call the seller on it and judge the response.

If seller suggests you do the deal "off of Ebay", he is trying to
appeal to your "let’s get together and cheat/retaliate against Big
Brother" natural tendencies. (All the classic scams rely upon your
own larcenous urges. They say you can’t con an honest man.) Remember
that on a $5,000 sale, seller only saves less than $100 by selling off
of Ebay. Most legit sellers would not want to jeapordize their Ebay
seller status for such a small savings.

If shipping company only has ‘leave a message’ or if the same person
(usually with bad English) answers no matter what extension you dial,
big red flag.

If seller says you don’t have to pay him, just pay a deposit to the
shipping company or other third party of his choosing and pay the rest
when you get the item, it is definitely a scam, especially if he says
he will pay for all the shipping up front.

If any deal seems too good to be true, it is too good to be true.


3. How can you ever be sure of an Ebay purchase?

Well, until you have what you bought in your own hands, you can’t.
But there are lots of ways to make your bet a good bet when dealing
with individual sellers who don’t have a reputation that you can
thoroughly confirm.

BEFORE MAKING ANY PAYMENT OR GIVING ANY PERSONAL INFORMATION
WHATSOEVER TO ANYONE……….

If you win an auction, tell the seller that you (or a friend of yours
living in his city) plan to pick up the item within 5 days and will
pay cash, cashier’s check or through paypal at that time (using your
computer or a rental at Kinko’s, never his computer). Ask for
directions to his location. If you get any BS whatsoever, the red
flag is up. If you never actually planned to pick up but do get
directions, you can always call back later and say that your buddy is
too busy and you’ve decided to have it shipped.

If you do get directions, either have someone you know in that city
check it out or check it out yourself by cross referencing with
411.com, yahoo people search, google maps, google, realtor databases,
etc.

If you can pick up the item yourself within a week, do it and pay for
it then, no up-front deposits.

Talk to seller on the phone. Talk about the item. If its BBQ
related, talk BBQ. Go with your gut if your gut gets nervous.

Thoroughly check out any shipper involved. Google them, whois them,
check their numbers in on-line yellow pages and real estate databases,
check them against the online scammer databases, run them by the BBB
if you can. Better yet, you arrange for the shipping yourself if you
require shipping. Use your local shipping contact.

Even if you feel secure about the shipper or escrow company, if any
passwords are required for registrations or logins, don’t use a
password or secret question that you have used anywhere else. Don’t
even use a true answer to this new secret question. Be careful with
any personal info and guard your credit card numbers judiciously.
They’re not worth much to a scammer without personal information, but
they’re a gold mine with such info.

In the absolute extreme, if you still really want the item but it
requires shipping and you‘re still nervous, explain to seller that
you’ve heard that there are all sorts of scams, etc. Request seller
to take a picture of himself standing next to the item and holding a
current issue of a magazine of YOUR choosing. Sure, some folks will
be put off by such a request, but if you explain that scams are
rampant, they should understand and cooperate if they’re honest.

If you’re still nervous, you can write or call directly to ebay and
explain the reasons for your uncertainty. Forward any emails,
including all header info. Ask them to investigate. They may be able
to provide some assurance.

Hope this helps keep you safe. I enjoy reading your posts and am
happy to know that there are plenty of people in this world that
really care about good Q.

Badwolf
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Default Ebay Smoker Scams Warning

On Thu, 08 Mar 2007 14:35:15 -0500, badwolf >
wrote:

>Hi BBQ guys,
>
>Thought I’d give you a heads up on recent ebay scams that might suck
>you in. Turns out that the most frequent scams of the past year have
>involved autos, cameras, laptops and commercial ovens (who would have
>thought!). It appears that commercial smokers get tossed into the
>same category by the scammers.
>
>



>



>


>
>Badwolf



One further tip on spotting Ebay scammers:

If you are emailing back and forth with seller, check seller’s email
address to see if it is a free web-based email account (hotmail.com,
yahoo.com, gmail.com, etc.). Legit sellers with a fixed address will
typically not be using a free web-based email service. Scammers
prefer the extra layer of anonymity and untracability the free
services provide.

If you don’t recognize, from the email address, whether it is a paid
nntp server or a free web-based account, google the domain to check or
do a google search for "free email" and "(insert name of seller’s
email domain)". You can also just examine the email headers. If it’s
from a paid nntp server, there will usually not be any very long
lines. If it’s a web-based service, there will be 2 or 3 long lines
with long unintelligle strings of numbers and letters.

It is, of course, not always the case that the use of a free
web-based service tells you there‘s a scammer at the other end;
people may have legit reasons for using a web-based service… e.g.,
they share an ISP with a number of other people in their house and
want more privacy, they maintain a web-based account for their buying
& selling activities in hopes of avoiding excessive spam in their home
or office email, etc. As with other indications, a single red flag is
usually not enough all by itself to tell you if a scammer is at work;
you have to add up all the indications and then the picture gets
clearer.

Badwolf
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Default Ebay Smoker Scams Warning

On Sat, 10 Mar 2007 13:19:19 -0800, Abe > wrote:

>>One further tip on spotting Ebay scammers:
>>
>>If you are emailing back and forth with seller, check seller’s email
>>address to see if it is a free web-based email account (hotmail.com,
>>yahoo.com, gmail.com, etc.). Legit sellers with a fixed address will
>>typically not be using a free web-based email service. Scammers
>>prefer the extra layer of anonymity and untracability the free
>>services provide.
>>
>>If you don’t recognize, from the email address, whether it is a paid
>>nntp server or a free web-based account, google the domain to check or
>>do a google search for "free email" and "(insert name of seller’s
>>email domain)". You can also just examine the email headers. If it’s
>>from a paid nntp server, there will usually not be any very long
>>lines. If it’s a web-based service, there will be 2 or 3 long lines
>>with long unintelligle strings of numbers and letters.
>>
>>It is, of course, not always the case that the use of a free
>>web-based service tells you there‘s a scammer at the other end;
>>people may have legit reasons for using a web-based service… e.g.,
>>they share an ISP with a number of other people in their house and
>>want more privacy, they maintain a web-based account for their buying
>>& selling activities in hopes of avoiding excessive spam in their home
>>or office email, etc. As with other indications, a single red flag is
>>usually not enough all by itself to tell you if a scammer is at work;
>>you have to add up all the indications and then the picture gets
>>clearer.

>NNTP? That's for news, not email.


Yup, my bad. Meant POP. Thanks for the correction.

badwolf
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Default Ebay Smoker Scams Warning

Yup, my bad. Meant POP. Thanks for the correction.

badwolf


On Sat, 10 Mar 2007 13:19:19 -0800, Abe > wrote:

>>One further tip on spotting Ebay scammers:
>>
>>If you are emailing back and forth with seller, check seller’s email
>>address to see if it is a free web-based email account (hotmail.com,
>>yahoo.com, gmail.com, etc.). Legit sellers with a fixed address will
>>typically not be using a free web-based email service. Scammers
>>prefer the extra layer of anonymity and untracability the free
>>services provide.
>>
>>If you don’t recognize, from the email address, whether it is a paid
>>nntp server or a free web-based account, google the domain to check or
>>do a google search for "free email" and "(insert name of seller’s
>>email domain)". You can also just examine the email headers. If it’s
>>from a paid nntp server, there will usually not be any very long
>>lines. If it’s a web-based service, there will be 2 or 3 long lines
>>with long unintelligle strings of numbers and letters.
>>
>>It is, of course, not always the case that the use of a free
>>web-based service tells you there‘s a scammer at the other end;
>>people may have legit reasons for using a web-based service… e.g.,
>>they share an ISP with a number of other people in their house and
>>want more privacy, they maintain a web-based account for their buying
>>& selling activities in hopes of avoiding excessive spam in their home
>>or office email, etc. As with other indications, a single red flag is
>>usually not enough all by itself to tell you if a scammer is at work;
>>you have to add up all the indications and then the picture gets
>>clearer.

>NNTP? That's for news, not email.


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Default Ebay Smoker Scams Warning


"Abe" > wrote in message
...
> >One further tip on spotting Ebay scammers:
> >
> >If you are emailing back and forth with seller, check seller's email
> >address to see if it is a free web-based email account (hotmail.com,
> >yahoo.com, gmail.com, etc.). Legit sellers with a fixed address will
> >typically not be using a free web-based email service. Scammers
> >prefer the extra layer of anonymity and untracability the free
> >services provide.

<snip>

Another similiar e-bay scam:

Let me first apologize to everyone that originally bid on this SVT last
week. This is not a second chance offer. This is a re-listing due to my
account being compromised during the early morning of 3/2. Someone hacked
into my account and posted a fraudulent email address just above my photos,
stating that "If you would like to buy it now contact this Blah, Blah email
address. I DO NOT have a "buy it now" option and the only address I can be
contacted at is by using the "ask seller a question" at the top right of the
listing. Ebay security was notified immediately and has dealt with the
problem. All passwords were changed and I am 100%confident in moving
forward with the sale and again I am sorry to anyone who was caused any
frustration when the original listing disappeared. You can contact Ebay
security if you have any questions regarding this listings legitamatacy.
Onward and upward.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
http://cgi.ebay.com/Ampeg-SVT-CL-Cla...er_W0QQitemZ29
0092471511QQcategoryZ121156QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
http://tinyurl.com/32qzfo




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Default Ebay Smoker Scams Warning

steve,

I’ve received emails from individuals whom I pretty much know for sure
are Eastern European scammers using web-based email services. One was
using Yahoo and claimed to be located in Texas, though I believe his
location to be Romania. In his emails, the originating IP would be,
e.g.,

X-Originating-IP: [69.147.97.27]

Running a whois on this IP only gives me Yahoo’s base address in
California and there are no long strings of consecutive IP numbers in
the headers. However, in emails I get from anyone using web-based
email services, a number of lines will be present regarding "domain
key-signature". These are the lines I mentioned with long strings of
numbers and letters, and these lines never seem to appear in the
headers of those who have paid POP/SMTP accounts and are not using
web-based services. For example, the email with the "originating" IP
above (whose "whois" base address was definitely not the scammer’s
home address/home country) contained the following:

DomainKey-Signatu a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws;
s=s1024; d=yahoo.com;
h=Message-ID:X-YMail-OSG:Receivedate:From:Subject:To:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding;
b=FAFkR3d6omYn6VtPjCY6+ymucO3MGorOR7WnFNqM9zKKBY2Y VIzJr+3TsECv1ikbjxS7MtbSLiBq30H6a1b9BDnFABJQLM5Kgv eJrpAZITqHIDIUmiNoahWdHjGhhm06GoQbfHXsQjo9z4a7XS2x TFp4IwOmGdSP3Y8BZpuPThM=
;
X-YMail-OSG:
vA5jNJQVM1mlwSc9krXxyd6J1m6FfDSsxmYWhKr9D1t8nWwoqW LREB3wmv9YDpWB0uF3JvO.H8CPKvPeQB.Lj0sq8Dw8kdZX70UW WHTO.dueRI_zdOZn0ctRdtFpNU.V

Do you know of any way to use this information to determine the actual
country/city of origin ??

badwolf


On Sat, 10 Mar 2007 21:22:21 -0600, Steve Wertz
> wrote:

>On Sat, 10 Mar 2007 02:23:50 -0500, badwolf wrote:
>
>> If you are emailing back and forth with seller, check seller’s email
>> address to see if it is a free web-based email account (hotmail.com,
>> yahoo.com, gmail.com, etc.). Legit sellers with a fixed address will
>> typically not be using a free web-based email service. Scammers
>> prefer the extra layer of anonymity and untracability the free
>> services provide.

>
>Usually email sent from hotmail (and yahoo) contains the IP
>address of the originating computer that sent the email. You can
>tell which ISP they have (or if they're using a public access
>site), and in most cases, where that host is located.
>
>Using an email address separate from your ISP is actually a wise
>decision. Leaving it up to hotmail or yahoo ... well, there are
>much better mail services out there.
>
>But always check the IP address of the originating message to see
>if the person lives where they claim (or imply).
>
>> You can also just examine the email headers. If it’s
>> from a paid nntp server, there will usually not be any very long
>> lines. If it’s a web-based service, there will be 2 or 3 long lines
>> with long unintelligle strings of numbers and letters.

>
>Mail is transferred VIA SMTP (in most cases), NNTP is news and
>it's protocol has no support for email. Mail usually has several
>long "from" headers to tell you how the message was received.
>
>Read the 'from' lines in your email headers, starting from the
>bottom up. The first IP you encounter is usually the originating
>email host.
>
>-sw


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