Barbecue (alt.food.barbecue) Discuss barbecue and grilling--southern style "low and slow" smoking of ribs, shoulders and briskets, as well as direct heat grilling of everything from burgers to salmon to vegetables.

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Default Natual gas vs propane, which is hotter

Theres a discussion on alt.home repair, about convertiung natural gas
grills to propane. My experience is the propane contains more BTUs and
seers steaks better.

A good friend works at sears and reports they hate selling natural gas
grills, since so many get returned with not hot enough complaints.

So I would appreciate the experts here at the barbecue group to give
us their opinions.

my opinion is that even with different orfices propane will be hotter
thn natural gas.....

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Default Natual gas vs propane, which is hotter

> wrote in message
> Theres a discussion on alt.home repair, about convertiung natural gas
> grills to propane. My experience is the propane contains more BTUs and
> seers steaks better.
>
> A good friend works at sears and reports they hate selling natural gas
> grills, since so many get returned with not hot enough complaints.
>
> So I would appreciate the experts here at the barbecue group to give
> us their opinions.
>
> my opinion is that even with different orfices propane will be hotter
> thn natural gas.....


The benefits of natural gas are summarized he
http://bbq.about.com/od/gasgrills/a/aa030505a.htm

But my personal experience is that all things being equal, nothing beats
wood and real wood charcoal. But, there are times when I opt for using my
gas grill.

For years I had a propane grill. In 2000 I switched to a Sunbeam natural
gas grill. I love the convenience of never worrying about how much gas I
have left. I have not had a problem with a lack of heat. In fact, I have
never really had to use the high setting.

Hope that helps
Chris


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Default Natual gas vs propane, which is hotter

In article . com>, " > wrote:
>Theres a discussion on alt.home repair, about convertiung natural gas
>grills to propane. My experience is the propane contains more BTUs and
>seers steaks better.
>
>A good friend works at sears and reports they hate selling natural gas
>grills, since so many get returned with not hot enough complaints.
>
>So I would appreciate the experts here at the barbecue group to give
>us their opinions.
>
>my opinion is that even with different orfices propane will be hotter
>thn natural gas.....
>

Several years ago, we moved from a home with LP gas to one with natural gas.
It turned out that it cost only about $25 to replace the orifices on our
grill, so, rather than buy a new grill, we converted the old one from LP to
natural.

Same burner. New orifices.

It burns a HELL of a lot hotter on NG than it ever did on LP.

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again.
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Default Natual gas vs propane, which is hotter

I agree, I won't, and will never use a gas grill. Might just as well put
the shit in the oven inside.

--
Steve Barker




"swibirun" > wrote in message
.. .
> But my personal experience is that all things being equal, nothing beats
> wood and real wood charcoal.
> Hope that helps
> Chris
>



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Default Natual gas vs propane, which is hotter

Weber's website seems to imply that their grills have the same btu
output whether it's the NG or propane version.

When I bought a Weber NG grill I was very surprised to see that it
cooked much hotter than my older propane grill. They're not exactly
the same model (due to the age difference) but the temperature
difference was pretty big.

A factor to consider, in addition to fuel, is what the grates are made
out of. Cast iron grates take longer to heat up but they hold heat
longer. So you should remember that even though the air temp inside
the grill might be 500 or 600 degrees, the cooking grates might not be
that hot for a while.

Shaun Eli
www.BrainChampagne.com
Brain Champagne: Clever Comedy for Smart Minds (sm)

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Default Natual gas vs propane, which is hotter

Newsreader > wrote:

>When converting most common fueled appliances, such as Cooktops, ovens,
>& gas fireplaces, switching them to over to LP from natural gas actually
>lowers the BTU's.


Why would that be? LP gas has approximately twice the BTU content by volume as
natural gas. Even if if the orifice was reduced by half, the heat content would
be the same, not less.
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Default Natual gas vs propane, which is hotter


"Doug Miller" > wrote in message
news
> In article . com>,

" > wrote:
> >Theres a discussion on alt.home repair, about convertiung natural gas
> >grills to propane. My experience is the propane contains more BTUs and
> >seers steaks better.
> >
> >A good friend works at sears and reports they hate selling natural gas
> >grills, since so many get returned with not hot enough complaints.
> >
> >So I would appreciate the experts here at the barbecue group to give
> >us their opinions.
> >
> >my opinion is that even with different orfices propane will be hotter
> >thn natural gas.....
> >

> Several years ago, we moved from a home with LP gas to one with natural

gas.
> It turned out that it cost only about $25 to replace the orifices on our
> grill, so, rather than buy a new grill, we converted the old one from LP

to
> natural.
>
> Same burner. New orifices.
>
> It burns a HELL of a lot hotter on NG than it ever did on LP.
>
> --
> Regards,
> Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)
>
> It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again.


This has nothing to do with which is hotter but rather a potential safety
issue. In 2000 we had the flexible connection line fail on our propane GG
and turned the tank into a huge blow torch that proceeded to burn off the
back of the house because there was no way to extinguish the propane tank
till it burned itself empty. That wouldn't of happened had I had a gas shut
off as I do now with our natural gas grill. That's why I'll never own a
propane grill again.




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Default Natual gas vs propane, which is hotter

Rick Blaine wrote:
> Newsreader > wrote:
>
>> When converting most common fueled appliances, such as Cooktops, ovens,
>> & gas fireplaces, switching them to over to LP from natural gas actually
>> lowers the BTU's.

>
> Why would that be? LP gas has approximately twice the BTU content by volume as
> natural gas. Even if if the orifice was reduced by half, the heat content would
> be the same, not less.


For example, re-jet a Viking gas cooktop for LP, and each burner's BTU
rating drops by 500, as per spec sheet he

> http://www.vikingrange.com/MEDIA_Cus...vgsu_specs.pdf


on page 2.

I don't have the spec handy, but my gas fireplace rating is lower with
LP than NG as well.
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Default Natual gas vs propane, which is hotter

In article t>, "tom" > wrote:

>This has nothing to do with which is hotter but rather a potential safety
>issue. In 2000 we had the flexible connection line fail on our propane GG
>and turned the tank into a huge blow torch that proceeded to burn off the
>back of the house because there was no way to extinguish the propane tank
>till it burned itself empty. That wouldn't of happened had I had a gas shut
>off as I do now with our natural gas grill. That's why I'll never own a
>propane grill again.


Wow.

That wasn't an issue for us. Since the house was heated with LP, I just
installed a line out on to the deck, and ran the grill off the house supply. I
had a shutoff right where the line exited the house (15' away from the grill),
another shutoff inside the house, and of course a main shutoff at the tank.

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again.
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Default Natual gas vs propane, which is hotter



Denny Wheeler wrote:

>
> Is this the place where I mention the house fire that almost killed me
> and my mother? The one that was caused by a natural gas heating
> system?
>
> I don't know about the tank you had, but every single propane tank
> I've ever seen has had a shutoff valve attached.
>
> There can be catastrophic fires from NG and from propane. And from
> wood and charcoal. (probably more from charcoal than any of the other
> 3 mentioned fuels)
>
> But as for your "this has nothing to do with which is hotter but
> rather a potential safety issue," the OP was curious about exactly the
> item you dismiss, namely which burns hotter. <shrug> I work at a
> factory which makes wood, pellet, and gas stoves & fireplaces; the gas
> ones are rated at the same heating capacity with NG or LP.
> (we have to do very extensive testing, btw--EPA sees to that)


I have nothing against LP, except that it's a pain making sure the tank
is full. We had a central LP tank at our cabin, feeding a 180kBTU
central boiler, water heater and a gas grill out back. It was all
plumbed in black iron with shut offs at the tank, where it entered the
house and at each "local" connection as well.

We had another house fire years back where I took too long exiting the
house, trying to corral and save our dog. The fire origin had nothing to
do with LP or NG, except that it was near where I'd stored a spare LP
tank for my grill. I was separated by a drywalled wall from a freshly
filled 20# LP tank that exploded. The blast blew the wall out, pelted
me with shredded wall tile and moved me about 6' down the hallway. It
also buckled the floor above and destroyed another wall. It was all a
moot point, because the house burned to the ground anyway. I escaped
with only some scuffed knees, elbows, but had concussive lung damage
from the blast and also chemical burns from various fumes to the lungs.

Since then, I really don't permit LP tanks inside my house or garage-
even for storage. Autos are reluctantly accepted. I also now will never
bring a gasoline container into a house or garage or store a genset,
pressure washer, mower, blower etc. within the house, garage or basement
unless the tank is dry. Once (almost) burned, twice shy as the old
saying goes. <Grin>
--
---Nonnymus---

TINSTAAFL
There Is No Such Thing
As A Free Lunch
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Default Natual gas vs propane, which is hotter

Did you consider turning off the tank valve whilst this alleged broken line
burnt your house?

--
Steve Barker




"tom" > wrote in message
k.net...
>
> This has nothing to do with which is hotter but rather a potential safety
> issue. In 2000 we had the flexible connection line fail on our propane GG
> and turned the tank into a huge blow torch that proceeded to burn off the
> back of the house because there was no way to extinguish the propane tank
> till it burned itself empty. That wouldn't of happened had I had a gas
> shut
> off as I do now with our natural gas grill. That's why I'll never own a
> propane grill again.
>
>



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"Steve Barker" > wrote in message
...
> Did you consider turning off the tank valve whilst this alleged broken
> line burnt your house?
>
> --
> Steve Barker


I can't imagine getting near it if it was shooting out full blast. I think
the new tanks with the OPD would shut off themselves in that condition.




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Default Natual gas vs propane, which is hotter

Newsreader > wrote:

>For example, re-jet a Viking gas cooktop for LP, and each burner's BTU
>rating drops by 500, as per spec sheet he
>
>> http://www.vikingrange.com/MEDIA_Cus...vgsu_specs.pdf

>
>on page 2.
>
>I don't have the spec handy, but my gas fireplace rating is lower with
>LP than NG as well.


How strange. Maybe the pressure is lower with LP gas?
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Default Natual gas vs propane, which is hotter

On Mon, 26 Feb 2007 03:05:12 GMT, "Edwin Pawlowski" >
wrote:

>
>"Steve Barker" > wrote in message
m...
>> Did you consider turning off the tank valve whilst this alleged broken
>> line burnt your house?
>>
>> --
>> Steve Barker

>
>I can't imagine getting near it if it was shooting out full blast. I think


Me neither. A garden hose couldn't have put out the flame, probably,
but it might have kept the house from burning. But maybe he did do
that and if not, it's easy to think of those things now.

>the new tanks with the OPD would shut off themselves in that condition.


Really?
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Default Natual gas vs propane, which is hotter


"Denny Wheeler" > wrote in message
...
> On Sun, 25 Feb 2007 22:50:25 GMT, "tom" > wrote:
>
> >
> >"Doug Miller" > wrote in message
> >news
> >> In article . com>,

> " > wrote:

<snip>
> >This has nothing to do with which is hotter but rather a potential safety
> >issue. In 2000 we had the flexible connection line fail on our propane GG
> >and turned the tank into a huge blow torch that proceeded to burn off the
> >back of the house because there was no way to extinguish the propane tank
> >till it burned itself empty. That wouldn't of happened had I had a gas

shut
> >off as I do now with our natural gas grill. That's why I'll never own a
> >propane grill again.

>
> Is this the place where I mention the house fire that almost killed me
> and my mother? The one that was caused by a natural gas heating
> system?
>
> I don't know about the tank you had, but every single propane tank
> I've ever seen has had a shutoff valve attached.

<snip>
> -denny-
> --
>
> The test of courage comes when we are in the minority.
> The test of tolerance comes when we are in the majority.


The 20 lb. tank that caught fire also had a shut-off but with it spewing an
8 ft flame neither myself or the firemen were able to approach it to turn it
off.


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Default Natual gas vs propane, which is hotter


"Steve Barker" > wrote in message
...
> Did you consider turning off the tank valve whilst this alleged broken

line
> burnt your house?
>
> --
> Steve Barker
>
>
>
>
> "tom" > wrote in message
> k.net...
> >
> > This has nothing to do with which is hotter but rather a potential

safety
> > issue. In 2000 we had the flexible connection line fail on our propane

GG
> > and turned the tank into a huge blow torch that proceeded to burn off

the
> > back of the house because there was no way to extinguish the propane

tank
> > till it burned itself empty. That wouldn't of happened had I had a gas
> > shut
> > off as I do now with our natural gas grill. That's why I'll never own a
> > propane grill again.
> >
> >

>

The 20 lb. tank that caught fire also had a shut-off but with it spewing an
8 ft flame neither myself or the firemen were able to approach it to turn it
off.


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Default Natual gas vs propane, which is hotter


"mm" > wrote in message
>
>>the new tanks with the OPD would shut off themselves in that condition.

>
> Really?


The OPD is a float that blocks the outlet. Thee is also a valve like the
one on a tire valve that must be pushed in. If the OPD gets forced tot he
top of the tank it will shut it off or severely cut down the amount of gas
escaping. If you wee able to knock it on its side it would be even better as
it is designed to stop leaks from a tank in your trunk that gets knocked
over.




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Default Natual gas vs propane, which is hotter

On Mon, 26 Feb 2007 03:49:36 GMT, "Edwin Pawlowski" >
wrote:

>
>"mm" > wrote in message
>>
>>>the new tanks with the OPD would shut off themselves in that condition.

>>
>> Really?

>
>The OPD is a float that blocks the outlet. Thee is also a valve like the
>one on a tire valve that must be pushed in. If the OPD gets forced tot he
>top of the tank it will shut it off or severely cut down the amount of gas
>escaping. If you wee able to knock it on its side it would be even better as
>it is designed to stop leaks from a tank in your trunk that gets knocked
>over.


Sounds good. Is this the new design that everyone had to switch to
over the last 6 or 7 years?

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"mm" > wrote in message
>
> Sounds good. Is this the new design that everyone had to switch to
> over the last 6 or 7 years?
>


Yes, many state now require it. You can tell because it has a triangular
shaped know on top


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Default Natual gas vs propane, which is hotter


"Edwin Pawlowski" > wrote in message
...
>
> "mm" > wrote in message
> >
> > Sounds good. Is this the new design that everyone had to switch to
> > over the last 6 or 7 years?
> >

>
> Yes, many state now require it. You can tell because it has a triangular
> shaped know on top



Q: What is an overfilling prevention device?
A: As defined by the National Fire Protection Association's Pamphlet 58 -
LP-Gas Code, 1998 Edition (Code), it is..."A safety device that is designed
to provide an automatic means to prevent the filling of a container in
excess of the maximum permitted filling limit."




http://www.grillman.com/propane_tankregs.htm#q4


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Default Natual gas vs propane, which is hotter


"tom" > wrote in message
.net...
>
> "Edwin Pawlowski" > wrote in message
> ...
> >
> > "mm" > wrote in message
> > >
> > > Sounds good. Is this the new design that everyone had to switch to
> > > over the last 6 or 7 years?
> > >

> >
> > Yes, many state now require it. You can tell because it has a

triangular
> > shaped know on top

>
>
> Q: What is an overfilling prevention device?
> A: As defined by the National Fire Protection Association's Pamphlet 58 -
> LP-Gas Code, 1998 Edition (Code), it is..."A safety device that is

designed
> to provide an automatic means to prevent the filling of a container in
> excess of the maximum permitted filling limit."
>
>
>
>
> http://www.grillman.com/propane_tankregs.htm#q4
>


Sorry, should be: http://www.grillman.com/propane_tankregs.htm#q1


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Default Natual gas vs propane, which is hotter

I'd just reach over and turn the fukin valve off. didn't the OP say the
fire was blazing out the end of a broken tube? And not right at the tank?

--
Steve Barker




"mm" > wrote in message
...
> On Mon, 26 Feb 2007 03:05:12 GMT, "Edwin Pawlowski" >
> wrote:
>
>>
>>"Steve Barker" > wrote in message
om...
>>> Did you consider turning off the tank valve whilst this alleged broken
>>> line burnt your house?
>>>
>>> --
>>> Steve Barker

>>
>>I can't imagine getting near it if it was shooting out full blast. I
>>think

>
> Me neither. A garden hose couldn't have put out the flame, probably,
> but it might have kept the house from burning. But maybe he did do
> that and if not, it's easy to think of those things now.
>
>>the new tanks with the OPD would shut off themselves in that condition.

>
> Really?





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Default Natual gas vs propane, which is hotter

that float valve only blocks it if it's overfilled. would do nothing on its
side or upside down, because it would float the wrong way.

--
Steve Barker




"Edwin Pawlowski" > wrote in message
...
>
> "mm" > wrote in message
>>
>>>the new tanks with the OPD would shut off themselves in that condition.

>>
>> Really?

>
> The OPD is a float that blocks the outlet. Thee is also a valve like the
> one on a tire valve that must be pushed in. If the OPD gets forced tot he
> top of the tank it will shut it off or severely cut down the amount of gas
> escaping. If you wee able to knock it on its side it would be even better
> as it is designed to stop leaks from a tank in your trunk that gets
> knocked over.
>



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Default Natual gas vs propane, which is hotter

On Mon, 26 Feb 2007 00:07:00 -0600, "Steve Barker"
> wrote:

>I'd just reach over and turn the fukin valve off. didn't the OP say the
>fire was blazing out the end of a broken tube? And not right at the tank?


Later he said that the firemen wouldn't do it either. So I guess it
didn't look like a good idea.
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On Feb 25, 10:07 pm, "Steve Barker" >
wrote:
> I'd just reach over and turn the fukin valve off. didn't the OP say the
> fire was blazing out the end of a broken tube? And not right at the tank?
>
> --
> Steve Barker
>
> "mm" > wrote in message
>
> ...
>
> > On Mon, 26 Feb 2007 03:05:12 GMT, "Edwin Pawlowski" >
> > wrote:

>
> >>"Steve Barker" > wrote in message
> om...
> >>> Did you consider turning off the tank valve whilst this alleged broken
> >>> line burnt your house?

>
> >>> --
> >>> Steve Barker

>
> >>I can't imagine getting near it if it was shooting out full blast. I
> >>think

>
> > Me neither. A garden hose couldn't have put out the flame, probably,
> > but it might have kept the house from burning. But maybe he did do
> > that and if not, it's easy to think of those things now.

>
> >>the new tanks with the OPD would shut off themselves in that condition.

>
> > Really?


If the "blow torch" installation is anything like mine...that flexible
tube is only about 2 or 3 ft long.

I don't think I'd be getting within 2 or 3 ft of a blazing propane
tube........

cheers
Bob

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Default Natual gas vs propane, which is hotter


"Steve Barker" > wrote in message
...
> that float valve only blocks it if it's overfilled. would do nothing on
> its side or upside down, because it would float the wrong way.
>
> --
> Steve Barker


Even standing in the proper position, they often block the flow if the gas
is turned on to a high flow fast. Want to test out the theory?


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On Feb 26, 1:30 am, "BobK207" > wrote:
>
> If the "blow torch" installation is anything like mine...that flexible
> tube is only about 2 or 3 ft long.
>
> I don't think I'd be getting within 2 or 3 ft of a blazing propane
> tube........
>
> cheers
> Bob-


I use a turkey fryer to boil corn in the summer and I've had it go
into blow-torch mode at the air mixture thingy. After the first time
that happened I make sure that that orifice is pointed away from the
tank.

Cam



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no. i just use them and don't break the flex lines.

--
Steve Barker




"Edwin Pawlowski" > wrote in message
...
>
> Even standing in the proper position, they often block the flow if the gas
> is turned on to a high flow fast. Want to test out the theory?
>



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--




"Rick Blaine" > wrote in message
...
> Newsreader > wrote:
>
>>For example, re-jet a Viking gas cooktop for LP, and each burner's BTU
>>rating drops by 500, as per spec sheet he
>>
>>> http://www.vikingrange.com/MEDIA_Cus...vgsu_specs.pdf

>>
>>on page 2.
>>
>>I don't have the spec handy, but my gas fireplace rating is lower with
>>LP than NG as well.

>
> How strange. Maybe the pressure is lower with LP gas?


the pressure is 2-3 times higher than NG

Bob Pietrangelo
(home)
(work)
www.comfort-solution.biz


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Default Natual gas vs propane, which is hotter

"Bob Pietrangelo" > wrote:

>> How strange. Maybe the pressure is lower with LP gas?

>
>the pressure is 2-3 times higher than NG


After the regulator? I mean, what am I missing here?

It's a fact that LP is almost double the BTU content of NG per cubic foot.
Reducing the orifice size for an LP fueled burner would bring the burner down to
the same heat output. Why would a manufacturer bring it even lower?
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Default Natual gas vs propane, which is hotter


"Rick Blaine" > wrote in message
...
>
> It's a fact that LP is almost double the BTU content of NG per cubic foot.
> Reducing the orifice size for an LP fueled burner would bring the burner
> down to
> the same heat output. Why would a manufacturer bring it even lower?


I don't have a clue, but most gas ranges for propane are rated lower than NG
by about 1000 Btu per burner. There may be other factors at work, such as
getting the proper gas - air mix in the burner or restrictions of the
venturi. In the case of grills, the primary fuel source is propane while in
ranges, the primary source is NG and in both cases thee is a conversion kit
that uses much of the same mechanical components.


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