Baking (rec.food.baking) For bakers, would-be bakers, and fans and consumers of breads, pastries, cakes, pies, cookies, crackers, bagels, and other items commonly found in a bakery. Includes all methods of preparation, both conventional and not.

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Old 19-01-2006, 09:09 AM posted to rec.food.baking
reqluq
 
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Default Flakey pastries

Hi, how do you get 'em? I've tried butter; lots of oil to no avail. I want
to get something like the kfc turnover crust, and malaysian curry puff type
crust
thanks
req




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Old 19-01-2006, 04:11 PM posted to rec.food.baking
Vox Humana
 
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Default Flakey pastries


"reqluq" wrote in message
...
Hi, how do you get 'em? I've tried butter; lots of oil to no avail. I want
to get something like the kfc turnover crust, and malaysian curry puff
type crust
thanks


Puff pastry is a laminated dough. You make a lean dough, put a slab of
butter on it, and fold to make a package. That package is then rolled and
folded several times with a rest in the refrigerator between "turns." While
the process isn't hard, it takes some practice. The various steps span
several hours.

You can see a video of the technique he
http://tinyurl.com/7m8u8


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Old 19-01-2006, 10:15 PM posted to rec.food.baking
reqluq
 
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Default Flakey pastries


"Vox Humana" wrote in message
.. .

"reqluq" wrote in message
...
Hi, how do you get 'em? I've tried butter; lots of oil to no avail. I
want to get something like the kfc turnover crust, and malaysian curry
puff type crust
thanks


Puff pastry is a laminated dough. You make a lean dough, put a slab of
butter on it, and fold to make a package. That package is then rolled and
folded several times with a rest in the refrigerator between "turns."
While the process isn't hard, it takes some practice. The various steps
span several hours.

You can see a video of the technique he
http://tinyurl.com/7m8u8


Very informative though I doubt a malaysian in he countryside is gonna take
so much time to put in the fridge take out and wait half hour to an hour
etc. There must be an easier/simpler way
req



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Old 19-01-2006, 10:51 PM posted to rec.food.baking
Bob (this one)
 
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Default Flakey pastries

reqluq wrote:

Hi, how do you get 'em? I've tried butter; lots of oil to no avail. I want
to get something like the kfc turnover crust, and malaysian curry puff type
crust


These are fried crusts. Deep frying them makes the outside crisp and the
inside moist.

Here's the Malay curry puff search results in Google.
http://tinyurl.com/cwvdj

Several recipes that demonstrate the process.

Pastorio
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Old 19-01-2006, 11:07 PM posted to rec.food.baking
reqluq
 
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Default Flakey pastries


"Bob (this one)" wrote in message
...
reqluq wrote:

Hi, how do you get 'em? I've tried butter; lots of oil to no avail. I
want to get something like the kfc turnover crust, and malaysian curry
puff type crust


These are fried crusts. Deep frying them makes the outside crisp and the
inside moist.

Here's the Malay curry puff search results in Google.
http://tinyurl.com/cwvdj

Several recipes that demonstrate the process.

Pastorio


Yup that's it; thanks Bob. I completely forgot about google
req





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Old 19-01-2006, 11:10 PM posted to rec.food.baking
reqluq
 
Posts: n/a
Default Flakey pastries


"Bob (this one)" wrote in message
...
reqluq wrote:

Hi, how do you get 'em? I've tried butter; lots of oil to no avail. I
want to get something like the kfc turnover crust, and malaysian curry
puff type crust


These are fried crusts. Deep frying them makes the outside crisp and the
inside moist.


http://www.malaysianfood.net/recipes...currypuffs.htm

In this recipe it's baked
req



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Old 20-01-2006, 01:00 AM posted to rec.food.baking
Eric Jorgensen
 
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Default Flakey pastries

On Thu, 19 Jan 2006 17:15:40 -0500
"reqluq" wrote:

Very informative though I doubt a malaysian in he countryside is gonna
take so much time to put in the fridge take out and wait half hour to an
hour etc. There must be an easier/simpler way



Yes, they probably just laminate as best they can and toss it around the
wok in some hot oil.

Are you trying to duplicate an item that you ate on the malaysian
countryside, possibly supplied by someone who doesn't have access to a
pastry chef's favorite tools?

Every cook does the best they can with the resources that are available.
You can get a far superior product if you work with refrigeration as
described by Vox, but you don't *have to do that to get a fried pastry that
is flaky.

There are elements of technique for laminating without the benefit of
refrigeration - for example you can start with a relatively dry dough but
let it hydrate for a half an hour or more before working it, and then
dusting lightly with flour before each fold. But the results aren't as good
as going all-out with an actively cooled stone slab and resting in the
sub-zero between steps.

  #8 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 20-01-2006, 01:24 AM posted to rec.food.baking
Eric Jorgensen
 
Posts: n/a
Default Flakey pastries

On Thu, 19 Jan 2006 18:10:37 -0500
"reqluq" wrote:


"Bob (this one)" wrote in message
...
reqluq wrote:

Hi, how do you get 'em? I've tried butter; lots of oil to no avail. I
want to get something like the kfc turnover crust, and malaysian curry


puff type crust


These are fried crusts. Deep frying them makes the outside crisp and
the inside moist.


http://www.malaysianfood.net/recipes...currypuffs.htm

In this recipe it's baked



I'm highly skeptical of the authenticity of curry recipes that include
'curry powder'. At least without a link for a recipe for same. 'curry
paste' receives similar skepticism.

I've been known to make a vindaloo or curry from scratch, and 'curry
powder' isn't really an ingredient. I do however have a large selection of
whole spices and a coffee grinder that's never seen a coffee bean.

Just sayin.
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Old 20-01-2006, 01:54 AM posted to rec.food.baking
Vox Humana
 
Posts: n/a
Default Flakey pastries


"Eric Jorgensen" wrote in message
news:[email protected]
On Thu, 19 Jan 2006 17:15:40 -0500
"reqluq" wrote:

Very informative though I doubt a malaysian in he countryside is gonna
take so much time to put in the fridge take out and wait half hour to an
hour etc. There must be an easier/simpler way



Yes, they probably just laminate as best they can and toss it around the
wok in some hot oil.

Are you trying to duplicate an item that you ate on the malaysian
countryside, possibly supplied by someone who doesn't have access to a
pastry chef's favorite tools?

Every cook does the best they can with the resources that are available.
You can get a far superior product if you work with refrigeration as
described by Vox, but you don't *have to do that to get a fried pastry
that
is flaky.

There are elements of technique for laminating without the benefit of
refrigeration - for example you can start with a relatively dry dough but
let it hydrate for a half an hour or more before working it, and then
dusting lightly with flour before each fold. But the results aren't as
good
as going all-out with an actively cooled stone slab and resting in the
sub-zero between steps.


The instructions at the link say that you can use refrigerated puff pastry
dough from the supermarket. The instructions for the dough at the link
wouldn't even make a decent pie pastry let alone something that resemples
puff pastry. There is nothing wrong with that except it seems very strange
that these two very different produts would be equated. Julia Child has
instructions for "blizt" puff pastry. It is made with large chunks of
butter and the dough gets a few turns, but is not refrigerated. I have made
this for the top of pot pies and for a quick base for a rustic tart. I
think it would be a good alternative to the recipe at the link.



  #10 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 20-01-2006, 03:33 AM posted to rec.food.baking
Dave Bell
 
Posts: n/a
Default Flakey pastries

Vox Humana wrote:
"Eric Jorgensen" wrote in message
news:[email protected]

On Thu, 19 Jan 2006 17:15:40 -0500
"reqluq" wrote:


Very informative though I doubt a malaysian in he countryside is gonna
take so much time to put in the fridge take out and wait half hour to an
hour etc. There must be an easier/simpler way



Yes, they probably just laminate as best they can and toss it around the
wok in some hot oil.

Are you trying to duplicate an item that you ate on the malaysian
countryside, possibly supplied by someone who doesn't have access to a
pastry chef's favorite tools?

Every cook does the best they can with the resources that are available.
You can get a far superior product if you work with refrigeration as
described by Vox, but you don't *have to do that to get a fried pastry
that
is flaky.

There are elements of technique for laminating without the benefit of
refrigeration - for example you can start with a relatively dry dough but
let it hydrate for a half an hour or more before working it, and then
dusting lightly with flour before each fold. But the results aren't as
good
as going all-out with an actively cooled stone slab and resting in the
sub-zero between steps.



The instructions at the link say that you can use refrigerated puff pastry
dough from the supermarket. The instructions for the dough at the link
wouldn't even make a decent pie pastry let alone something that resemples
puff pastry. There is nothing wrong with that except it seems very strange
that these two very different produts would be equated. Julia Child has
instructions for "blizt" puff pastry. It is made with large chunks of
butter and the dough gets a few turns, but is not refrigerated. I have made
this for the top of pot pies and for a quick base for a rustic tart. I
think it would be a good alternative to the recipe at the link.


This one isn't attributed to Julia, but sounds like what you were
describing:

Blitz Puff Pastry

* 1 pound bread flour
* 1 pound butter, cut in cubes
* 1 1/4 tsp. salt
* 8 oz. cold water

Mix all ingredients together and pat out somewhat flat. Turn in left and
right side. Roll the pastry out to make somewhat smooth. Fold opposite
sides in and roll again. Cut to desired pastry shape. Fill and bake at
350 degrees until golden brown.


Dave


  #11 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 20-01-2006, 04:49 AM posted to rec.food.baking
chembake
 
Posts: n/a
Default Flakey pastries

Hi, how do you get 'em? I've tried butter; lots of oil to no avail. I want
to get something like the kfc turnover crust, and malaysian curry puff type

..crust

If you're thinking of Oriental layered pastries common In China,
Taiwan and the surrounding Asian countries

Here is a commonly used method...that I had done some twenty years
back..

They first prepare a dough of medium gluten flour, salt, water and some
add little bit of yeast ....and fat( usually pork lard or sometimes
vegetable oil).

....They combine pork lard with flour and make a paste like roll in fat
..
This is then spread on the sheet of a prepared dough evenly. rolled
into an oblong shape. about 2-mm thick
Then dough is then rolled to form cylinder, (pulling and pushing to
make a tight roll) . then coiled into a spiral and allowed to rest .
The rest of the dough and paste is processed similarly.
That is done for the reason to create layers or lamination.....
That when cut vertically with a knife you will see a spiral of
alternating layes of fat paste and dough..
That layered dough is then cut to a disk about 2-5 cm depending on
the thickness of the pastry cylinder or the size of the expected
pastry case.

The filling is then placed in the center and the edges are wet with
egg and then pressed to seal.
it can be crimped decoratively like scallop designs etc.
It can be fried or baked ......the latter is usually brushed with egg
before being loaded into the oven.

  #12 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 20-01-2006, 05:29 AM posted to rec.food.baking
Wayne Boatwright
 
Posts: n/a
Default Flakey pastries

On Thu 19 Jan 2006 08:33:41p, Thus Spake Zarathustra, or was it Dave Bell?

Vox Humana wrote:
"Eric Jorgensen" wrote in message
news:[email protected]

On Thu, 19 Jan 2006 17:15:40 -0500
"reqluq" wrote:


Very informative though I doubt a malaysian in he countryside is gonna
take so much time to put in the fridge take out and wait half hour to
an hour etc. There must be an easier/simpler way


Yes, they probably just laminate as best they can and toss it around
the
wok in some hot oil.

Are you trying to duplicate an item that you ate on the malaysian
countryside, possibly supplied by someone who doesn't have access to a
pastry chef's favorite tools?

Every cook does the best they can with the resources that are
available.
You can get a far superior product if you work with refrigeration as
described by Vox, but you don't *have to do that to get a fried pastry
that is flaky.

There are elements of technique for laminating without the benefit of
refrigeration - for example you can start with a relatively dry dough
but let it hydrate for a half an hour or more before working it, and
then dusting lightly with flour before each fold. But the results
aren't as good as going all-out with an actively cooled stone slab and
resting in the sub-zero between steps.



The instructions at the link say that you can use refrigerated puff
pastry dough from the supermarket. The instructions for the dough at
the link wouldn't even make a decent pie pastry let alone something
that resemples puff pastry. There is nothing wrong with that except it
seems very strange that these two very different produts would be
equated. Julia Child has instructions for "blizt" puff pastry. It is
made with large chunks of butter and the dough gets a few turns, but is
not refrigerated. I have made this for the top of pot pies and for a
quick base for a rustic tart. I think it would be a good alternative
to the recipe at the link.


This one isn't attributed to Julia, but sounds like what you were
describing:

Blitz Puff Pastry

* 1 pound bread flour
* 1 pound butter, cut in cubes
* 1 1/4 tsp. salt
* 8 oz. cold water

Mix all ingredients together and pat out somewhat flat. Turn in left and
right side. Roll the pastry out to make somewhat smooth. Fold opposite
sides in and roll again. Cut to desired pastry shape. Fill and bake at
350 degrees until golden brown.


Mix how, Dave? Cut butter into flour/salt first, then add water? Bread
flour for pastry? Very curious...

--
Wayne Boatwright տլ
________________________________________

Okay, okay, I take it back! UnScrew you!

  #13 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 20-01-2006, 07:40 AM posted to rec.food.baking
Dave Bell
 
Posts: n/a
Default Flakey pastries

Wayne Boatwright wrote:
On Thu 19 Jan 2006 08:33:41p, Thus Spake Zarathustra, or was it Dave Bell?


Vox Humana wrote:

"Eric Jorgensen" wrote in message
news:[email protected]


On Thu, 19 Jan 2006 17:15:40 -0500
"reqluq" wrote:



Very informative though I doubt a malaysian in he countryside is gonna
take so much time to put in the fridge take out and wait half hour to
an hour etc. There must be an easier/simpler way


Yes, they probably just laminate as best they can and toss it around
the
wok in some hot oil.

Are you trying to duplicate an item that you ate on the malaysian
countryside, possibly supplied by someone who doesn't have access to a
pastry chef's favorite tools?

Every cook does the best they can with the resources that are
available.
You can get a far superior product if you work with refrigeration as
described by Vox, but you don't *have to do that to get a fried pastry
that is flaky.

There are elements of technique for laminating without the benefit of
refrigeration - for example you can start with a relatively dry dough
but let it hydrate for a half an hour or more before working it, and
then dusting lightly with flour before each fold. But the results
aren't as good as going all-out with an actively cooled stone slab and
resting in the sub-zero between steps.


The instructions at the link say that you can use refrigerated puff
pastry dough from the supermarket. The instructions for the dough at
the link wouldn't even make a decent pie pastry let alone something
that resemples puff pastry. There is nothing wrong with that except it
seems very strange that these two very different produts would be
equated. Julia Child has instructions for "blizt" puff pastry. It is
made with large chunks of butter and the dough gets a few turns, but is
not refrigerated. I have made this for the top of pot pies and for a
quick base for a rustic tart. I think it would be a good alternative
to the recipe at the link.


This one isn't attributed to Julia, but sounds like what you were
describing:

Blitz Puff Pastry

* 1 pound bread flour
* 1 pound butter, cut in cubes
* 1 1/4 tsp. salt
* 8 oz. cold water

Mix all ingredients together and pat out somewhat flat. Turn in left and
right side. Roll the pastry out to make somewhat smooth. Fold opposite
sides in and roll again. Cut to desired pastry shape. Fill and bake at
350 degrees until golden brown.



Mix how, Dave? Cut butter into flour/salt first, then add water? Bread
flour for pastry? Very curious...


Good questions, Wayne! But you see the entire text of the recipe, as I
found it...

Dave
  #14 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 20-01-2006, 01:35 PM posted to rec.food.baking
Wayne Boatwright
 
Posts: n/a
Default Flakey pastries

On Fri 20 Jan 2006 12:40:02a, Thus Spake Zarathustra, or was it Dave Bell?

Wayne Boatwright wrote:
On Thu 19 Jan 2006 08:33:41p, Thus Spake Zarathustra, or was it Dave
Bell?


Vox Humana wrote:

"Eric Jorgensen" wrote in message
news:[email protected]


On Thu, 19 Jan 2006 17:15:40 -0500
"reqluq" wrote:



Very informative though I doubt a malaysian in he countryside is
gonna take so much time to put in the fridge take out and wait half
hour to an hour etc. There must be an easier/simpler way


Yes, they probably just laminate as best they can and toss it around
the
wok in some hot oil.

Are you trying to duplicate an item that you ate on the malaysian
countryside, possibly supplied by someone who doesn't have access to
a pastry chef's favorite tools?

Every cook does the best they can with the resources that are
available.
You can get a far superior product if you work with refrigeration as
described by Vox, but you don't *have to do that to get a fried
pastry that is flaky.

There are elements of technique for laminating without the benefit
of
refrigeration - for example you can start with a relatively dry dough
but let it hydrate for a half an hour or more before working it, and
then dusting lightly with flour before each fold. But the results
aren't as good as going all-out with an actively cooled stone slab
and resting in the sub-zero between steps.


The instructions at the link say that you can use refrigerated puff
pastry dough from the supermarket. The instructions for the dough at
the link wouldn't even make a decent pie pastry let alone something
that resemples puff pastry. There is nothing wrong with that except
it seems very strange that these two very different produts would be
equated. Julia Child has instructions for "blizt" puff pastry. It is
made with large chunks of butter and the dough gets a few turns, but
is not refrigerated. I have made this for the top of pot pies and for
a quick base for a rustic tart. I think it would be a good
alternative to the recipe at the link.

This one isn't attributed to Julia, but sounds like what you were
describing:

Blitz Puff Pastry

* 1 pound bread flour
* 1 pound butter, cut in cubes
* 1 1/4 tsp. salt
* 8 oz. cold water

Mix all ingredients together and pat out somewhat flat. Turn in left
and right side. Roll the pastry out to make somewhat smooth. Fold
opposite sides in and roll again. Cut to desired pastry shape. Fill and
bake at 350 degrees until golden brown.



Mix how, Dave? Cut butter into flour/salt first, then add water?
Bread flour for pastry? Very curious...


Good questions, Wayne! But you see the entire text of the recipe, as I
found it...


Dave, I found this one for Quick Puff Pastry which I understand is the
same as Blitz Puff Pastry. The ingredient quantities are virtually
identical. The directions are more explicit. One notable difference is
in the flour used. Comparing the two recipes, I think bread flour is
probably not the best choice, since the idea is to minimize gluten
development.

Quick Puff Pastry

Makes 2 pounds
This is a simple alternative to a classic puff pastry.

1 3/4 cups all-purpose flour, plus more for dusting
2 cups cake flour(not self-rising)
1 teaspoon coarse salt
1 pound (4 sticks) unsalted butter, very cold, cut into small pieces
1 to 1 1/4 cups ice water
2 tablespoons freshly squeezed lemon juice

1. Sift together all-purpose flour, cake flour, and salt into a large
chilled bowl. Cut in butter pieces using a pastry knife until the butter
is in very small lumps, about 1/2 inch in diameter.

2. Combine ice water and lemon juice, and stir into the flour mixture,
a little at a time, pressing the dough together with your hands until it
comes together.

3. Turn the dough out onto a well-floured work surface, and roll it
into a 1/2-inch-thick rough rectangle, approximately 12 by 18 inches.
The dough will be very crumbly. Fold bottom of the rectangle toward the
center, then the top of the rectangle toward the center, overlapping the
bottom third, like a letter, and give the dough a quarter turn to the
right. Roll the dough into a large rectangle, 1/2 inch thick, and fold
into thirds again. This completes the first double turn. Remove any
excess flour with a wide, dry pastry brush. Repeat rolling, folding, and
turning process two more times to execute another double turn,
refrigerating the dough for a few minutes if the butter becomes too
warm. Wrap the dough in plastic, and chill in refrigerator for 1 hour.

4. Remove chilled dough from the refrigerator. Repeat rolling,
folding, and turning process again to execute one more double turn.
There will be six turns in all. The dough needs to be rolled out to a
1/2-inch-thick rectangle each time. With each turn, the dough will
become smoother and easier to handle. Store the dough, wrapped well in
plastic, in the refrigerator for up to 2 days or in the freezer for 3
months.

--
Wayne Boatwright տլ
________________________________________

Okay, okay, I take it back! UnScrew you!

  #15 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 20-01-2006, 01:38 PM posted to rec.food.baking
Bob (this one)
 
Posts: n/a
Default Flakey pastries

Dave Bell wrote:
Wayne Boatwright wrote:

On Thu 19 Jan 2006 08:33:41p, Thus Spake Zarathustra, or was it
Dave Bell?

Vox Humana wrote:

The instructions at the link say that you can use refrigerated
puff pastry dough from the supermarket. The instructions for
the dough at the link wouldn't even make a decent pie pastry
let alone something that resemples puff pastry. There is
nothing wrong with that except it seems very strange that these
two very different produts would be equated. Julia Child has
instructions for "blitz" puff pastry. It is made with large
chunks of butter and the dough gets a few turns, but is not
refrigerated. I have made this for the top of pot pies and for
a quick base for a rustic tart. I think it would be a good
alternative to the recipe at the link.


This one isn't attributed to Julia, but sounds like what you were
describing:

Blitz Puff Pastry

* 1 pound bread flour * 1 pound butter, cut in cubes * 1 1/4
tsp. salt * 8 oz. cold water

Mix all ingredients together and pat out somewhat flat. Turn in
left and right side. Roll the pastry out to make somewhat smooth.
Fold opposite sides in and roll again. Cut to desired pastry
shape. Fill and bake at 350 degrees until golden brown.


Mix how, Dave? Cut butter into flour/salt first, then add water?
Bread flour for pastry? Very curious...


Good questions, Wayne! But you see the entire text of the recipe, as
I found it...


I posted some notes in rec.food.cooking about a way to make a pie crust
this way with further comment about making a rough puff paste. Here it
is, edited...

Pie crust (double-crust 9-inch pie) - 3/4 cup (1 1/2 sticks)
butter/shortening, 8 ounces (2 cups) flour, 1 teaspoon salt, 1 teaspoon
sugar, 2 ounces (1/4 cup) water.

Rough puff paste - a pound of butter (4 sticks), 15 ounces of flour (4
1/4+/- cups and 1/2 cup more for rolling it out), a teaspoon salt and a
cup of water.

The usual direction for making pie crust is to cut the shortening into
the flour. That results in small flakes or mealiness (still acceptable)
depending on the fat used and the method of dispersal.

Rather than cutting the fat into the flour (and salt, sugar or whatever
else you put into it), I've been cutting the (very cold) fat into small
cubes (1/4 to 3/8 inch), tossing it with the (very cold) flour to coat
and keep separated, adding a little ice water, and then dumping the
whole thing on the counter to roll rather than to mix as usual.

The point in making a crust is to get little bits of fat scattered
throughout the flour matrix for the distinctive texture of pie crust.
Traditional approaches have included using a pastry blender, two knives,
or fingers to break the fat into smaller pieces. Here's a new way...

Toss the fat cubes in the combined dry ingredients to coat and stir
through. Add water. Then dump the whole thing out onto a counter where
you can roll it out. Roll over the pile of stuff heavily. It'll still be
powdery. Roll a few times, then slide a pastry scraper under the edges
and fold it into a small pile. Roll again and scrape up again. The cubes
of fat are being flattened and spread through the flour. Scraping and
folding keeps the fat in sheets. Each rolling will make it all become
more cohesive. After several rollings, scrapings and foldings, you'll
have a crust with the fat dispersed in larger sheets than usual. The
finished crust will be flaky in a different way than usual. The flakes
are larger. And the crust, IME, is somewhat more waterproof.

It handles easily after the few rollings. I chill it before lining pans
with it. Gather it into a flat disk, wrap with plastic and chill for 1/2
hour. Then finish as usual. I usually roll it thicker than traditional
crusts - like 1/4 inch or so. It eats very nicely, absorbs juices
without getting soggy.

Puff paste (both classic and rough) uses butter which has
20% water in it. When it bakes, the water flashes over to steam and
causes the puffing by forcing layers apart.

Puff pastry contains at least as much as (or, more often, more butter)
than flour. When making a rough puff paste, you add more water than for
this sort of pie crust. And when you roll it, you do turns like with
classic puff paste. With this pie crust, you spread it (it will stick to
the surface) and scrape it back up onto itself and reroll. There's no
effort to make layers as in puff paste. No turns, as such.

Pie crust (double-crust 9-inch pie) - 3/4 cup (1 1/2 sticks)
butter/shortening, 8 ounces (2 cups) flour, 1 teaspoon salt, 1 teaspoon
sugar, 2 ounces (1/4 cup) water.

Rough puff paste - a pound of butter (4 sticks), 15 ounces of flour (4
1/4+/- cups and 1/2 cup more for rolling it out), a teaspoon salt and a
cup of water.

Pastorio


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