Baking (rec.food.baking) For bakers, would-be bakers, and fans and consumers of breads, pastries, cakes, pies, cookies, crackers, bagels, and other items commonly found in a bakery. Includes all methods of preparation, both conventional and not.

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  #1 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 18-01-2006, 08:41 PM posted to rec.food.baking
Bob (this one)
 
Posts: n/a
Default Who are you...?

Who subscribes to rec.food.baking? Are you a professional? Are you a guy
who likes to bake on weekends? Are you a mother who needs to bake for a
family? Hobby? Work? Hate it but have to? Love it but not enough time?

Who are you? What kinds of information are you seeking?

Pastorio

  #2 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 18-01-2006, 11:00 PM posted to rec.food.baking
-L.
 
Posts: n/a
Default Who are you...?


Bob (this one) wrote:
Who subscribes to rec.food.baking? Are you a professional? Are you a guy
who likes to bake on weekends? Are you a mother who needs to bake for a
family? Hobby? Work? Hate it but have to? Love it but not enough time?

Who are you? What kinds of information are you seeking?

Pastorio


Mainly lurker. I am 42, live in Portland, OR, am a SAHM with a
wonderful son who is 2. I cook three meals a day for our family and
bake mainly desserts for parties and my husband's office (requests). I
like to bake and haven't done as much of it in the last couple of years
but since DS is becoming more independant, I can spend time baking
again.

We are considering opening a business as an outlet for my cakes and
desserts. So a lot of what I am doing now is experimental.

-L.

  #3 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 19-01-2006, 12:34 AM posted to rec.food.baking
Randall Nortman
 
Posts: n/a
Default Who are you...?

On 2006-01-18, Bob (this one) wrote:
Who subscribes to rec.food.baking? Are you a professional? Are you a guy
who likes to bake on weekends? Are you a mother who needs to bake for a
family? Hobby? Work? Hate it but have to? Love it but not enough time?

Who are you? What kinds of information are you seeking?


"Serious amateur" cook and baker (except I don't take the "serious"
part too seriously). W.r.t. baking, it is mostly bread, mostly
whole-grain, mostly sourdough, though occasionally I use a little
white flour and/or some yeast. I have my own grain mill and bake with
various grains. I built a steam injection system for my home oven
(which I'm am currently in the process of upgrading by replacing
copper tubing with stainless steel and silicone).

I often bake sweet things as well, mostly for special occasions.
Cakes, pies, cookies, pastries, etc. I'm better at bread, but my
other baked goods are improving.

I'm looking for anything that can help me get that extra 1% in my
results, plus to share what knowledge I have with others. If someday
I become independently wealthy, I may open a bakery/restaurant, but I
would hate to be in that business if I had to depend on it for income.

I just started reading rec.food.baking again recently, though I have
popped my head in here from time to time in the past.

--
Randall
  #4 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 19-01-2006, 02:55 AM posted to rec.food.baking
Reg
 
Posts: n/a
Default Who are you...?

Bob (this one) wrote:

Who subscribes to rec.food.baking? Are you a professional? Are you a guy
who likes to bake on weekends? Are you a mother who needs to bake for a
family? Hobby? Work? Hate it but have to? Love it but not enough time?

Who are you? What kinds of information are you seeking?


I'm in two professions. I'm an old time computer programmer
with one foot still in it to pay the bills, plus a caterer
and small producer of cured and smoked products. I recently
bought a property with a second kitchen that I'm in the
process of getting certified.

As to rfb related stuff, I'm happy to say customer demand
for breads and other baked goods is coming back after just
about disappearing during the Atkins craze. The great baked
goods drought of 2003-04 is just about over, and I'm thankful
that I get to bake in quantity again.

The info I look for tends to be the more detail oriented
material that's hard to find in most textbooks, the usual
source for 98% of my information. I especially like hearing
from professionals because the information tends to be both
rare and useful.

Like your blue cheese dressing recipe, among many items.
It's still a hit with the crowd.

--
Reg email: RegForte (at) (that free MS email service) (dot) com

  #5 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 19-01-2006, 05:20 AM posted to rec.food.baking
Wayne Boatwright
 
Posts: n/a
Default Who are you...?

On Wed 18 Jan 2006 07:55:29p, Thus Spake Zarathustra, or was it Reg?

Bob (this one) wrote:

Who subscribes to rec.food.baking? Are you a professional? Are you a guy
who likes to bake on weekends? Are you a mother who needs to bake for a
family? Hobby? Work? Hate it but have to? Love it but not enough time?

Who are you? What kinds of information are you seeking?


I'm in two professions. I'm an old time computer programmer
with one foot still in it to pay the bills, plus a caterer
and small producer of cured and smoked products. I recently
bought a property with a second kitchen that I'm in the
process of getting certified.

As to rfb related stuff, I'm happy to say customer demand
for breads and other baked goods is coming back after just
about disappearing during the Atkins craze. The great baked
goods drought of 2003-04 is just about over, and I'm thankful
that I get to bake in quantity again.

The info I look for tends to be the more detail oriented
material that's hard to find in most textbooks, the usual
source for 98% of my information. I especially like hearing
from professionals because the information tends to be both
rare and useful.

Like your blue cheese dressing recipe, among many items.
It's still a hit with the crowd.


Can one of you post Bob's blue cheese dressing recipe?

TIA

Re the original question...

I'll be 61 next week and I've cooked and baked since learning all the
basics at home. I have a Southern heritage and many things I cook are
influenced by old family recipes, but I frequently try new recipes from
many cuisines. I consider myself an expert pie baker and I'm more than
competent at bread and cake baking. Still, there's a wealth of knowledge
and tips to be gained from reading a group like this...real practical
experience from posters at all competency levels.

--
Wayne Boatwright տլ
________________________________________

Okay, okay, I take it back! UnScrew you!



  #6 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 19-01-2006, 06:20 AM posted to rec.food.baking
Bob (this one)
 
Posts: n/a
Default Who are you...?

-L. wrote:
Bob (this one) wrote:

Who subscribes to rec.food.baking? Are you a professional? Are you a guy
who likes to bake on weekends? Are you a mother who needs to bake for a
family? Hobby? Work? Hate it but have to? Love it but not enough time?

Who are you? What kinds of information are you seeking?
Pastorio


Mainly lurker. I am 42, live in Portland, OR, am a SAHM with a
wonderful son who is 2. I cook three meals a day for our family and
bake mainly desserts for parties and my husband's office (requests). I
like to bake and haven't done as much of it in the last couple of years
but since DS is becoming more independant, I can spend time baking
again.

We are considering opening a business as an outlet for my cakes and
desserts. So a lot of what I am doing now is experimental.


My oldest granddaughter has decided to do wedding cakes and other
celebratory baking and asked me a lot of questions about getting
started. My first bit of advice was to tell her to get a job in a place
that does something like what she wants to do. Otherwise, it's guessing.
And a good way to lose a lot of money. She's been to culinary school and
has a notion about commercial versus domestic cooking, but she asked me
a lot of the wrong questions. Premature stuff - what kind of pans should
she buy, should she offer delivery (!), how much staff should she
have...? We talked about kitchens, storage, budgeting, inventory,
pricing, staffing, etc. I deliberately befuddled her because, while it's
good to be upbeat and energetic, it leads to a false sense of security.
I tried to give her a sense of what she doesn't know and needs to research.

Check the health department laws where you are before doing any baking
for money. Check local prices and charge more, not less. You're making a
premium product and people should pay for it. You can't be bashful about
money. I know about all these pitfalls because I've fallen into them at
one time or another.

Good luck with it.

Pastorio
  #7 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 19-01-2006, 06:23 AM posted to rec.food.baking
Bob (this one)
 
Posts: n/a
Default Who are you...?

Randall Nortman wrote:
On 2006-01-18, Bob (this one) wrote:

Who subscribes to rec.food.baking? Are you a professional? Are you a guy
who likes to bake on weekends? Are you a mother who needs to bake for a
family? Hobby? Work? Hate it but have to? Love it but not enough time?

Who are you? What kinds of information are you seeking?



"Serious amateur" cook and baker (except I don't take the "serious"
part too seriously). W.r.t. baking, it is mostly bread, mostly
whole-grain, mostly sourdough, though occasionally I use a little
white flour and/or some yeast. I have my own grain mill and bake with
various grains. I built a steam injection system for my home oven
(which I'm am currently in the process of upgrading by replacing
copper tubing with stainless steel and silicone).


I'd be interested in hearing more about this. What kind of oven? How
does your injections system work? Hardware?

I often bake sweet things as well, mostly for special occasions.
Cakes, pies, cookies, pastries, etc. I'm better at bread, but my
other baked goods are improving.

I'm looking for anything that can help me get that extra 1% in my
results, plus to share what knowledge I have with others. If someday
I become independently wealthy, I may open a bakery/restaurant, but I
would hate to be in that business if I had to depend on it for income.


LOL The industry joke is: "Do you know how to have a small fortune in
foodservice? Start with a large one."

Pastorio
  #8 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 19-01-2006, 06:37 AM posted to rec.food.baking
Bob (this one)
 
Posts: n/a
Default Who are you...?

Reg wrote:
Bob (this one) wrote:

Who subscribes to rec.food.baking? Are you a professional? Are you a
guy who likes to bake on weekends? Are you a mother who needs to bake
for a family? Hobby? Work? Hate it but have to? Love it but not enough
time?

Who are you? What kinds of information are you seeking?



I'm in two professions. I'm an old time computer programmer
with one foot still in it to pay the bills, plus a caterer
and small producer of cured and smoked products.


What sorts of products?

I recently
bought a property with a second kitchen that I'm in the
process of getting certified.

As to rfb related stuff, I'm happy to say customer demand
for breads and other baked goods is coming back after just
about disappearing during the Atkins craze. The great baked
goods drought of 2003-04 is just about over, and I'm thankful
that I get to bake in quantity again.


What do you bake, mostly?

The info I look for tends to be the more detail oriented
material that's hard to find in most textbooks, the usual
source for 98% of my information.


What areas are you most interested in getting more info in?

I especially like hearing
from professionals because the information tends to be both
rare and useful.


LOL And idiosyncratic. I've had to unlearn a lot of stuff in recent
years. Things I "knew" from school or old-timers who told me their
versions of culinary truths. Along comes some of the good food
scientists and blew away the cobwebs. Harold McGee, Shirley Corriher,
Russ Parsons and a few others. And others who are good researchers and
present the works and words of pros, themselves and others - Bernard
Dupaigne, Maggie Glezer, Nick Malgieri, Alford & Duguid, Carol Field,
Berenbaum. Wayne Gisslen's baking books.

Like your blue cheese dressing recipe, among many items.
It's still a hit with the crowd.


LOL Been a while since I posted that anywhere. Reminds me to make
some; been a while for that, too.

So simple when I do it at home - any blue cheese, crumbled, heavy cream
whipped to soft peaks, stir together and rest for a few hours or
overnight. Viola.

Pastorio
  #9 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 19-01-2006, 12:29 PM posted to rec.food.baking
-L.
 
Posts: n/a
Default Who are you...?


Bob (this one) wrote:
My oldest granddaughter has decided to do wedding cakes and other
celebratory baking and asked me a lot of questions about getting
started. My first bit of advice was to tell her to get a job in a place
that does something like what she wants to do. Otherwise, it's guessing.
And a good way to lose a lot of money. She's been to culinary school and
has a notion about commercial versus domestic cooking, but she asked me
a lot of the wrong questions. Premature stuff - what kind of pans should
she buy, should she offer delivery (!), how much staff should she
have...? We talked about kitchens, storage, budgeting, inventory,
pricing, staffing, etc. I deliberately befuddled her because, while it's
good to be upbeat and energetic, it leads to a false sense of security.
I tried to give her a sense of what she doesn't know and needs to research.

Check the health department laws where you are before doing any baking
for money. Check local prices and charge more, not less. You're making a
premium product and people should pay for it. You can't be bashful about
money. I know about all these pitfalls because I've fallen into them at
one time or another.

Good luck with it.

Pastorio


Thanks, Bob. It's pretty much a pipedream now. I may initially just
sell to my friend who has a restaurant downtown.
-L.

  #10 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 19-01-2006, 02:48 PM posted to rec.food.baking
Randall Nortman
 
Posts: n/a
Default Steam injection -- don't try this at home! [was Who are you...?]

On 2006-01-19, Bob (this one) wrote:
Randall Nortman wrote:
On 2006-01-18, Bob (this one) wrote:

Who subscribes to rec.food.baking? Are you a professional? Are you a guy
who likes to bake on weekends? Are you a mother who needs to bake for a
family? Hobby? Work? Hate it but have to? Love it but not enough time?

Who are you? What kinds of information are you seeking?



"Serious amateur" cook and baker (except I don't take the "serious"
part too seriously). W.r.t. baking, it is mostly bread, mostly
whole-grain, mostly sourdough, though occasionally I use a little
white flour and/or some yeast. I have my own grain mill and bake with
various grains. I built a steam injection system for my home oven
(which I'm am currently in the process of upgrading by replacing
copper tubing with stainless steel and silicone).


I'd be interested in hearing more about this. What kind of oven? How
does your injections system work? Hardware?

[...]

The oven is a very cheap, low-end electric GE model, about 25 years
old. I got the idea from newsgroups -- search for "pressure cooker
steam injection" on Google groups, in this group plus
alt.bread.recipes, rec.food.sourdough, and rec.food.equipment (I
forget where I saw it). The idea is that you boil water on the
stovetop in a pressure cooker, and direct the steam into the oven via
heat-resistant tubing of some sort. You need to tap a pipe fitting
into the pressure cooker lid and find a way into the oven -- all
residential ovens are vented in some way, and that's the first place
to look. In my case, the vent is underneath one of the back burners.
It's a tight squeeze, but I managed to route some copper tubing
through there and into the oven. My current problem is that copper
tubing is actually only rated for up to 400F -- it doesn't melt when
it gets hotter, but the end that goes into the oven is getting quite
corroded now. I am going to replace it with a short length of
stainless steel tubing (expensive, but takes high heat and doesn't
corrode) for the part that's actually in the oven, and then use a
length of high-temp silicone (food-safe, plasticizer-free, rated up to
500F) to connect the boiler to the stainless tubing. The stainless
steel will then stay in my oven all the time, even when I'm not doing
bread, which will be much more convenient than my current system,
which involves installing and removing the copper tubing every time I
bake bread. When I finish this project, perhaps I'll post pictures
and details.

The final results depend on the strength of the stovetop burners. My
stovetop is cheap electric, and can't boil water as fast as I'd like.
I don't get the intense burst of steam that you'd get in a commercial
combi oven, but I do get much more than tricks like setting a pan of
water in the oven. I can keep the steam going as long as I'd like
(usually 10-15 minutes, until oven spring is totally done), and it
does get plenty steamy in there -- I can see steam rising from the
gaps in the oven door seal (remember, this is a cheap 25-year old
oven) almost immediately after I close the door, and I definitely need
to stand back for a moment when I open the door with the steam on.
The bread also cooks faster, presumably because wet air transfers heat
to the dough more quickly than dry air, or maybe because the air
movement created by the jet of steam coming out of the end of the pipe
turns my oven into a pseudo-convection oven.

Please note that all of the above is potentially dangerous and will
void any warranties within 100 yards. I'm not advising anybody to do
it.

When I have a chance to build or renovate a new kitchen, I've got my
eye on the Gaggenau residential combi oven. Expensive, but much
better than this mad scientist contraption I've currently got going.
I think KitchenAid just came out with one as well.

--
Randall


  #11 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 19-01-2006, 04:36 PM posted to rec.food.baking
Vox Humana
 
Posts: n/a
Default Steam injection -- don't try this at home! [was Who are you...?]


"Randall Nortman" wrote in message
ink.net...


The oven is a very cheap, low-end electric GE model, about 25 years
old. I got the idea from newsgroups -- search for "pressure cooker
steam injection" on Google groups, in this group plus
alt.bread.recipes, rec.food.sourdough, and rec.food.equipment (I
forget where I saw it). The idea is that you boil water on the
stovetop in a pressure cooker, and direct the steam into the oven via
heat-resistant tubing of some sort.

My oven rusted and warped from trying to generate steam for baking. I just
tossed a few ice cubes into the oven when I put the dough in. I should have
just preheated a cast iron skillet and put the ice in that. I still think
that the interior would have rusted, but that may have prevented the
warping.


  #12 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 19-01-2006, 11:49 PM posted to rec.food.baking
isabella
 
Posts: n/a
Default Steam injection -- don't try this at home! [was Who are you...?]

http://www.cookingwithcrack.com/bread/steam/


isabella


"Randall Nortman" schreef in bericht
ink.net...
On 2006-01-19, Bob (this one) wrote:
Randall Nortman wrote:
On 2006-01-18, Bob (this one) wrote:

Who subscribes to rec.food.baking? Are you a professional? Are you a

guy
who likes to bake on weekends? Are you a mother who needs to bake for a
family? Hobby? Work? Hate it but have to? Love it but not enough time?

Who are you? What kinds of information are you seeking?


"Serious amateur" cook and baker (except I don't take the "serious"
part too seriously). W.r.t. baking, it is mostly bread, mostly
whole-grain, mostly sourdough, though occasionally I use a little
white flour and/or some yeast. I have my own grain mill and bake with
various grains. I built a steam injection system for my home oven
(which I'm am currently in the process of upgrading by replacing
copper tubing with stainless steel and silicone).


I'd be interested in hearing more about this. What kind of oven? How
does your injections system work? Hardware?

[...]

The oven is a very cheap, low-end electric GE model, about 25 years
old. I got the idea from newsgroups -- search for "pressure cooker
steam injection" on Google groups, in this group plus
alt.bread.recipes, rec.food.sourdough, and rec.food.equipment (I
forget where I saw it). The idea is that you boil water on the
stovetop in a pressure cooker, and direct the steam into the oven via
heat-resistant tubing of some sort. You need to tap a pipe fitting
into the pressure cooker lid and find a way into the oven -- all
residential ovens are vented in some way, and that's the first place
to look. In my case, the vent is underneath one of the back burners.
It's a tight squeeze, but I managed to route some copper tubing
through there and into the oven. My current problem is that copper
tubing is actually only rated for up to 400F -- it doesn't melt when
it gets hotter, but the end that goes into the oven is getting quite
corroded now. I am going to replace it with a short length of
stainless steel tubing (expensive, but takes high heat and doesn't
corrode) for the part that's actually in the oven, and then use a
length of high-temp silicone (food-safe, plasticizer-free, rated up to
500F) to connect the boiler to the stainless tubing. The stainless
steel will then stay in my oven all the time, even when I'm not doing
bread, which will be much more convenient than my current system,
which involves installing and removing the copper tubing every time I
bake bread. When I finish this project, perhaps I'll post pictures
and details.

The final results depend on the strength of the stovetop burners. My
stovetop is cheap electric, and can't boil water as fast as I'd like.
I don't get the intense burst of steam that you'd get in a commercial
combi oven, but I do get much more than tricks like setting a pan of
water in the oven. I can keep the steam going as long as I'd like
(usually 10-15 minutes, until oven spring is totally done), and it
does get plenty steamy in there -- I can see steam rising from the
gaps in the oven door seal (remember, this is a cheap 25-year old
oven) almost immediately after I close the door, and I definitely need
to stand back for a moment when I open the door with the steam on.
The bread also cooks faster, presumably because wet air transfers heat
to the dough more quickly than dry air, or maybe because the air
movement created by the jet of steam coming out of the end of the pipe
turns my oven into a pseudo-convection oven.

Please note that all of the above is potentially dangerous and will
void any warranties within 100 yards. I'm not advising anybody to do
it.

When I have a chance to build or renovate a new kitchen, I've got my
eye on the Gaggenau residential combi oven. Expensive, but much
better than this mad scientist contraption I've currently got going.
I think KitchenAid just came out with one as well.

--
Randall



  #13 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 20-01-2006, 04:06 AM posted to rec.food.baking
Cindy Fuller
 
Posts: n/a
Default Who are you...?

In article ,
"Bob (this one)" wrote:

Who subscribes to rec.food.baking? Are you a professional? Are you a guy
who likes to bake on weekends? Are you a mother who needs to bake for a
family? Hobby? Work? Hate it but have to? Love it but not enough time?

Who are you? What kinds of information are you seeking?

I'm a scientist. Cooking and baking are my creative outlets and
alternate grounds for experimentation. For years I've offered bread of
the month clubs and holiday breads for church service auctions.

I'm also the "resident nutritionist" on rec.food.cooking. All while the
Atkins craze was raging, I disparaged the diet and kept baking. We'd
been through this nonsense before, I knew folks would return to their
senses. I hope that this time people recognize that there's a
difference between "Wonder bread" and good, chewy, whole grain stuff.

I'm always on the lookout for new recipes. I don't have a bread
machine, unless the Mighty Kenwood mixer qualifies.

Cindy

--
C.J. Fuller

Delete the obvious to email me
  #14 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 20-01-2006, 04:53 AM posted to rec.food.baking
chembake
 
Posts: n/a
Default Who are you...?

I'm a scientist. Cooking and baking are my creative outlets and
alternate grounds for experimentation


It is always good to know that there are some science minded people
here.......grin.. the kind of individuals that I can easily relate
with...grin...

  #15 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 20-01-2006, 08:41 AM posted to rec.food.baking
Reg
 
Posts: n/a
Default Who are you...?

Bob (this one) wrote:

Reg wrote:

I'm in two professions. I'm an old time computer programmer
with one foot still in it to pay the bills, plus a caterer
and small producer of cured and smoked products.



What sorts of products?


Many types of hot and cold smoked fish, various smoked
sausages, pastrami, coppacolla, breseola, several fermented
meat products. I'm starting to do aged cheeses but I don't
think it will scale well. Not a bad hobby though.


I recently
bought a property with a second kitchen that I'm in the
process of getting certified.

As to rfb related stuff, I'm happy to say customer demand
for breads and other baked goods is coming back after just
about disappearing during the Atkins craze. The great baked
goods drought of 2003-04 is just about over, and I'm thankful
that I get to bake in quantity again.



What do you bake, mostly?


Bread is the only thing I have any formal training in,
so there's a lot of that. Many different types.

As far as desserts, mostly in demand are plain old pies,
cakes, tortes, etc. Sometimes petite four platters. For
myself I'm doing a lot of Pierre Herme recipes right now.

The info I look for tends to be the more detail oriented
material that's hard to find in most textbooks, the usual
source for 98% of my information.



What areas are you most interested in getting more info in?


I'm constantly looking for information about packaging and
preservation. It's difficult information to find, and much of
it is geared toward large scale producers. For instance, I'm
still trying to find information on minimum useful levels of
nitrite in preserved meats. The maximum allowed levels are well
covered in regulations, but not much info about quantity vs.
efficacy, etc.

Also, in researching MAP I haven't been able to find much
about if/how I could make use of it. Again, it's geared
toward large producers.

Etc.

Food safety issues in general are important, and you've been
a great help here. Thanks especially for posting things
like this:

http://www.hi-tm.com/Documents/Turkey.html

In-depth, authoritative, but still geared toward the real world.
I don't worry about thawing poultry at room temperature anymore.
Now *that's* information I can use.


I especially like hearing
from professionals because the information tends to be both
rare and useful.



LOL And idiosyncratic. I've had to unlearn a lot of stuff in recent
years. Things I "knew" from school or old-timers who told me their
versions of culinary truths. Along comes some of the good food
scientists and blew away the cobwebs. Harold McGee, Shirley Corriher,
Russ Parsons and a few others. And others who are good researchers and
present the works and words of pros, themselves and others - Bernard
Dupaigne, Maggie Glezer, Nick Malgieri, Alford & Duguid, Carol Field,
Berenbaum. Wayne Gisslen's baking books.

Like your blue cheese dressing recipe, among many items.
It's still a hit with the crowd.



LOL Been a while since I posted that anywhere. Reminds me to make
some; been a while for that, too.

So simple when I do it at home - any blue cheese, crumbled, heavy cream
whipped to soft peaks, stir together and rest for a few hours or
overnight. Viola.


People don't believe me when I tell them the recipe. When
you use a really high quality, non-UHT cream it takes on a new
dimension.

--
Reg email: RegForte (at) (that free MS email service) (dot) com



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