Baking (rec.food.baking) For bakers, would-be bakers, and fans and consumers of breads, pastries, cakes, pies, cookies, crackers, bagels, and other items commonly found in a bakery. Includes all methods of preparation, both conventional and not.

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  #46 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 27-04-2005, 02:16 PM
Roger
 
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Dave Bell wrote:
On Tue, 26 Apr 2005, Roger wrote:


If you're feeling lazy you can chuck a dough hook into your drill press
(you have one, right?) and do some serious kneading. For the price of a
low-end KitchenAid you can get an industrial-stength motor built to
crank that kind of load all day long. Plus it has a vast number of other
uses.

Roger



Huh! Now, that's an interesting idea!
I'll have to look at mine, but I'm not sure how slow I can get it to run.
What's a good RPM for bread kneading, anyway?!?

Dave



As slow as you make it go. On mine that's 180 rpm, but I think that's
still pretty fast. Half that would be ideal. Going too fast puts you in
danger of over-kneading. You also need a good way to clamp the bowl down
lest it be tossed across the room :-)

Next time I buy a drill press it'll be a serious variable speed
machine-- all the better to make bread, of course!

Roger

  #47 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 27-04-2005, 03:28 PM
Mike Avery
 
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GMAN wrote:

What about the K5SS model, its a hobart made unit that was given to me
by an old lady in our neighborhood. How old is it (I assume 70's era)
and does it have nylon gears, and does it use a single speed motor
with gears?


It's GEAR, not gearS. One gear is nylon, and designed to be the
failsafe in case the unit is severely overloaded. Without opening it, I
couldn't tell you if it had A nylon gear or not, but I am inclined to
think it does.

Also, it does not have a single speed motor with a transmission. The
models with transmissions are pretty obvious. They have 3 speeds, and
you have to stop the mixer to change gears. The variable speed motors,
which is all the K4, K5 and newer machines have a slide that goes from 0
to 10 or something like that. The motor changes pitch as it speeds up
or slows down.

PS: this thing is mint, not even dirty or scratched at all.


All the Kitchen Aid models are designed to be easy to clean and use a
fairly tough enamel, so they tend to keep looking good unless they are
abused.

Mike


  #48 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 27-04-2005, 03:28 PM
Mike Avery
 
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GMAN wrote:

What about the K5SS model, its a hobart made unit that was given to me
by an old lady in our neighborhood. How old is it (I assume 70's era)
and does it have nylon gears, and does it use a single speed motor
with gears?


It's GEAR, not gearS. One gear is nylon, and designed to be the
failsafe in case the unit is severely overloaded. Without opening it, I
couldn't tell you if it had A nylon gear or not, but I am inclined to
think it does.

Also, it does not have a single speed motor with a transmission. The
models with transmissions are pretty obvious. They have 3 speeds, and
you have to stop the mixer to change gears. The variable speed motors,
which is all the K4, K5 and newer machines have a slide that goes from 0
to 10 or something like that. The motor changes pitch as it speeds up
or slows down.

PS: this thing is mint, not even dirty or scratched at all.


All the Kitchen Aid models are designed to be easy to clean and use a
fairly tough enamel, so they tend to keep looking good unless they are
abused.

Mike


  #49 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 27-04-2005, 04:18 PM
Eric Jorgensen
 
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On Wed, 27 Apr 2005 08:28:47 -0600
Mike Avery wrote:

GMAN wrote:

What about the K5SS model, its a hobart made unit that was given to me
by an old lady in our neighborhood. How old is it (I assume 70's era)
and does it have nylon gears, and does it use a single speed motor
with gears?


It's GEAR, not gearS. One gear is nylon, and designed to be the
failsafe in case the unit is severely overloaded. Without opening it, I
couldn't tell you if it had A nylon gear or not, but I am inclined to
think it does.

Also, it does not have a single speed motor with a transmission. The
models with transmissions are pretty obvious. They have 3 speeds, and
you have to stop the mixer to change gears. The variable speed motors,
which is all the K4, K5 and newer machines have a slide that goes from 0
to 10 or something like that. The motor changes pitch as it speeds up
or slows down.



Regarding this, I think Viking is stretching the limits of reasonable
english in their description of their fine mixer.

They describe it as having a "metal gear transmission" but the truth of
the matter is that it has a 6 speed variable control on the side, and the
manual certainly doesn't tell you to switch it off to shift gears.

Perhaps the transmission they speak of is the three separate accessory
attachments which turn at different speeds? Or perhaps they mean only that
power is transmitted through metal gears.

Kenwood (and by extension Delonghi) make similar claims about their
stand mixers. fwiw they also fudge the maximum capacity ratings a bit by
not specifying right up front (as Viking does) that you can mix a lot more
pounds of thin batter than bread dough.

There's also the problem of reporting the power of the motor in watts,
which makes no sense at all, but no less sense than grading automotive
engines in horsepower. foot-pounds of torque is where it's all at.

I'm not saying that any of these mixers aren't going to work out for a
home baker. As a geek i don't like the idea of a variable speed motor at
all, but i have to admit that the two-speed motor in my aincent bosch is
still kicking.



PS: this thing is mint, not even dirty or scratched at all.


All the Kitchen Aid models are designed to be easy to clean and use a
fairly tough enamel, so they tend to keep looking good unless they are
abused.



I'm still kinda tempted to find an old N-50 in need of service and a
machine shop willing to overhaul it and powder coat the casing . . . It's
not that i think i need one, I just like the idea.

  #50 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 27-04-2005, 04:18 PM
Eric Jorgensen
 
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On Wed, 27 Apr 2005 08:28:47 -0600
Mike Avery wrote:

GMAN wrote:

What about the K5SS model, its a hobart made unit that was given to me
by an old lady in our neighborhood. How old is it (I assume 70's era)
and does it have nylon gears, and does it use a single speed motor
with gears?


It's GEAR, not gearS. One gear is nylon, and designed to be the
failsafe in case the unit is severely overloaded. Without opening it, I
couldn't tell you if it had A nylon gear or not, but I am inclined to
think it does.

Also, it does not have a single speed motor with a transmission. The
models with transmissions are pretty obvious. They have 3 speeds, and
you have to stop the mixer to change gears. The variable speed motors,
which is all the K4, K5 and newer machines have a slide that goes from 0
to 10 or something like that. The motor changes pitch as it speeds up
or slows down.



Regarding this, I think Viking is stretching the limits of reasonable
english in their description of their fine mixer.

They describe it as having a "metal gear transmission" but the truth of
the matter is that it has a 6 speed variable control on the side, and the
manual certainly doesn't tell you to switch it off to shift gears.

Perhaps the transmission they speak of is the three separate accessory
attachments which turn at different speeds? Or perhaps they mean only that
power is transmitted through metal gears.

Kenwood (and by extension Delonghi) make similar claims about their
stand mixers. fwiw they also fudge the maximum capacity ratings a bit by
not specifying right up front (as Viking does) that you can mix a lot more
pounds of thin batter than bread dough.

There's also the problem of reporting the power of the motor in watts,
which makes no sense at all, but no less sense than grading automotive
engines in horsepower. foot-pounds of torque is where it's all at.

I'm not saying that any of these mixers aren't going to work out for a
home baker. As a geek i don't like the idea of a variable speed motor at
all, but i have to admit that the two-speed motor in my aincent bosch is
still kicking.



PS: this thing is mint, not even dirty or scratched at all.


All the Kitchen Aid models are designed to be easy to clean and use a
fairly tough enamel, so they tend to keep looking good unless they are
abused.



I'm still kinda tempted to find an old N-50 in need of service and a
machine shop willing to overhaul it and powder coat the casing . . . It's
not that i think i need one, I just like the idea.



  #51 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 27-04-2005, 05:01 PM
Mike Avery
 
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Eric Jorgensen wrote:

Regarding this, I think Viking is stretching the limits of reasonable
english in their description of their fine mixer.

They describe it as having a "metal gear transmission" but the truth of
the matter is that it has a 6 speed variable control on the side, and the manual certainly doesn't tell you to switch it off to shift gears.

Perhaps the transmission they speak of is the three separate accessory
attachments which turn at different speeds? Or perhaps they mean only that power is transmitted through metal gears.


I suspect that the last is the case. Power is transmitted, so there is
a transmission. Spoken, and even written, languages are imprecise.
Perhaps I should have said the Hobart commercial mixers have a three
speed gear shift transmission that allows the operator to select the
appropriate gear ratio and speed for the task at hand, while the
KitchenAid has a single speed transmission with a variable speed motor.

Kenwood (and by extension Delonghi) make similar claims about their
stand mixers. fwiw they also fudge the maximum capacity ratings a bit by not specifying right up front (as Viking does) that you can mix a lot more pounds of thin batter than bread dough.


That's common in the industry, and should be understood by bakers.
Hobart's are rated by quarts. In the manual is a list of how many
pounds of different types of products you can make. Lots of beaten egg
whites. Less cake batter. Less light bread. Less heavier bread. And
not much in the way of pizza dough or bagels. (If you do bagels
commercially, you are well advised to get a bagel mixer - they are
heavier duty machines.)

There's also the problem of reporting the power of the motor in watts, which makes no sense at all, but no less sense than grading automotive engines in horsepower. foot-pounds of torque is where it's all at.


Heh, heh. In reality, build quality is more important than power. My
30 quart Hobart had a weaker motor than the 6 quart artisan mixers. My
mixer was already over 30 years old (to be conservative), and it will
still be in use 30 years from now if its new owner takes good care of it.

I'm still kinda tempted to find an old N-50 in need of service and a
machine shop willing to overhaul it and powder coat the casing . . . It's not that i think i need one, I just like the idea.


I'd be torn between that and a 20 quart hobart or a Electrolux
Assistent/Magic Mill.

Mike

  #52 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 27-04-2005, 05:42 PM
FREECYCLE MOM
 
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"Roger" wrote in message
...
Do these have a brand name? I did a google search for "Universal
Bread Pail" and came up with nothing.

Look on Ebay searching for "Universal bread". There are six of them
available this morning. The correct term seems to be "bread maker"
rather than bread pail.

See, for example
http://digital.lib.msu.edu/projects/cookbooks/html/museum/object_006.html


Oh, I see. You can't buy this as a new item. It's an antique. And
as such it has an antique price. I see one already at almost $50 and
another at $68 US. I think that's a little exhorbitant. I'll stick
to my Kenwood.



  #53 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 27-04-2005, 06:03 PM
Eric Jorgensen
 
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On Wed, 27 Apr 2005 12:42:44 -0400
"FREECYCLE MOM" wrote:


"Roger" wrote in message
...
Do these have a brand name? I did a google search for "Universal
Bread Pail" and came up with nothing.

Look on Ebay searching for "Universal bread". There are six of them
available this morning. The correct term seems to be "bread maker"
rather than bread pail.

See, for example
http://digital.lib.msu.edu/projects/...eum/object_006.
html


Oh, I see. You can't buy this as a new item. It's an antique. And
as such it has an antique price. I see one already at almost $50 and
another at $68 US. I think that's a little exhorbitant. I'll stick
to my Kenwood.



I rescued a similar device, an Acme ice cream maker, from my
grandfather's workshop. Unfortunately, a few of the pieces got lost at my
parents house somehow. Individually, only the dasher and lid are obviously
from an ice cream maker - the rest of it looks like a bucket, another
bucket with a hole in it, a funny screwdriver, and an unusual bracket.
Some day i need to spend a few more hours digging around for the outer
bucket, bracket, and drive shaft. Damn thing worked pretty well.

Looks like a reasonable design. There are a bunch on ebay, a persistent
person could get one for under $40, but, yeah.
  #54 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 27-04-2005, 07:37 PM
graham
 
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"Eric Jorgensen" wrote in message
news:[email protected]
On Wed, 27 Apr 2005 08:28:47 -0600
Mike Avery wrote:

GMAN wrote:


Regarding this, I think Viking is stretching the limits of reasonable
english in their description of their fine mixer.

They describe it as having a "metal gear transmission" but the truth of
the matter is that it has a 6 speed variable control on the side, and the
manual certainly doesn't tell you to switch it off to shift gears.

Perhaps the transmission they speak of is the three separate accessory
attachments which turn at different speeds? Or perhaps they mean only that
power is transmitted through metal gears.

Kenwood (and by extension Delonghi) make similar claims about their
stand mixers. fwiw they also fudge the maximum capacity ratings a bit by
not specifying right up front (as Viking does) that you can mix a lot more
pounds of thin batter than bread dough.

Isn't the Viking made on the old Kenwood factory in the UK?
Graham


  #55 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 27-04-2005, 08:22 PM
Wayne Boatwright
 
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On Wed 27 Apr 2005 09:42:44a, FREECYCLE MOM wrote in rec.food.baking:


"Roger" wrote in message
...
Do these have a brand name? I did a google search for "Universal
Bread Pail" and came up with nothing.

Look on Ebay searching for "Universal bread". There are six of them
available this morning. The correct term seems to be "bread maker"
rather than bread pail.

See, for example
http://digital.lib.msu.edu/projects/.../object_006.ht
ml


Oh, I see. You can't buy this as a new item. It's an antique. And
as such it has an antique price. I see one already at almost $50 and
another at $68 US. I think that's a little exhorbitant. I'll stick
to my Kenwood.


You can buy them new but they aren't any cheaper.

http://www.wisementrading.com/baking.htm

--
Wayne Boatwright
____________________________________________

Give me a smart idiot over a stupid genius any day.
Sam Goldwyn, 1882-1974


  #56 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 27-04-2005, 11:01 PM
Roy
 
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Regarding professional mixers of the smallest size that can handle
multiple functions efficiently and can be used for home use
Have a look at this models which are tried and tested in the European
and Australian baking industry ( for R&D purposes and recipe
development)
http://www.wodschow.dk/products.asp
http://www.wodschow.dk/product_details.asp?ID=1
Its advantage is :
It has a sturdy construction like a Hobart and it has a variable speed
like a Kitchen Aide but by magnitudes a lot better in performance.
It can also sustain continuous mixing but better than the 5 quart N-50
for dough mixing as the mixing blade is spiral shape providing better
dough development performance.
To get information about your local distributor, please contact us via
fax: +45 fax +45-43- 43 12 80
or e-mail: .
Roy

  #57 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 28-04-2005, 05:51 AM
Wayne Boatwright
 
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On Wed 27 Apr 2005 03:01:57p, Roy wrote in rec.food.baking:

Regarding professional mixers of the smallest size that can handle
multiple functions efficiently and can be used for home use
Have a look at this models which are tried and tested in the European
and Australian baking industry ( for R&D purposes and recipe
development)
http://www.wodschow.dk/products.asp
http://www.wodschow.dk/product_details.asp?ID=1
Its advantage is :
It has a sturdy construction like a Hobart and it has a variable speed
like a Kitchen Aide but by magnitudes a lot better in performance.
It can also sustain continuous mixing but better than the 5 quart N-50
for dough mixing as the mixing blade is spiral shape providing better
dough development performance.
To get information about your local distributor, please contact us via
fax: +45 fax +45-43- 43 12 80
or e-mail: .
Roy


That's an impressive looking machine! Still, I would imagine that it's
well out of my budget at this time. I also haven't yet killed my KA. g

I will definitely keep this for future reference.

Thanks!

--
Wayne Boatwright **
____________________________________________

Give me a smart idiot over a stupid genius any day.
Sam Goldwyn, 1882-1974
  #58 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 28-04-2005, 09:01 PM
Roy
 
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That's an impressive looking machine! Still, I would imagine that
it's
well out of my budget at this time.


I am certain that is cheaper than the Hobart in the same way with their
larger models, Several years back I remember a bakery who purchased 3
large Bear Varimixer which made that establishment save lot of money
as it cost about IIRC half the price for the same size model of the
Hobart!
Performance wise I had seen Bear mixers working along side with Hobart
and they last as long! Unfortunately its not as well known as the
Hobart in the US. but widely used in Europe and elsewhere where
planterary mixers are the primary equipment.
From my experience with dough mixing using this Bear mixer, the dough

seems to develope slightly faster..
Roy

  #59 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 28-04-2005, 09:14 PM
Wayne Boatwright
 
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On Thu 28 Apr 2005 01:01:21p, Roy wrote in rec.food.baking:

That's an impressive looking machine! Still, I would imagine that it's
well out of my budget at this time.


I am certain that is cheaper than the Hobart in the same way with their
larger models, Several years back I remember a bakery who purchased 3
large Bear Varimixer which made that establishment save lot of money
as it cost about IIRC half the price for the same size model of the
Hobart!
Performance wise I had seen Bear mixers working along side with Hobart
and they last as long! Unfortunately its not as well known as the
Hobart in the US. but widely used in Europe and elsewhere where
planterary mixers are the primary equipment.
From my experience with dough mixing using this Bear mixer, the dough

seems to develope slightly faster..
Roy


I'll certainly keep it in mind. Thanks!

--
Wayne Boatwright **
____________________________________________

Give me a smart idiot over a stupid genius any day.
Sam Goldwyn, 1882-1974
  #60 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 29-04-2005, 12:33 PM
KAidVerne
 
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Dee,

I am so sorry for the trouble you had on your latest KitchenAid mixer.
Have you contacted KitchenAid Customer Service? They can help! As a
representative of KitchenAid, I can assure you that the problem you are
showing here is extremely rare.



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