Baking (rec.food.baking) For bakers, would-be bakers, and fans and consumers of breads, pastries, cakes, pies, cookies, crackers, bagels, and other items commonly found in a bakery. Includes all methods of preparation, both conventional and not.

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  #16 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 24-04-2005, 09:43 PM
Eric Jorgensen
 
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On 24 Apr 2005 13:04:54 -0700
"Roy" wrote:

Perhaps you might look at my recent pictures of the KitchenAid problem

=20
4-15-05.
I am not saying I would or wouldn't recommend a KitchenAid, but just

take a
look at my experience.
http://freepages.family.rootsw=ADeb....amil=ADyPage/=

kit
...

=20
Dee

Dee I am glad that your brought that matter out accompanied with
graphic pictures !
Its about time that folks here realize how flimsy is the construction
of that mixer


I was wondering if the higher capacity Kitchen aide mixer have that
problem that is common with their smaller sized models.
Besides those mixers are made in (Korea and never in the USA.
I never liked Korean made machines. Including their cars like
Hyundai,Daewoo and KIA are just like toy cars that won't last for
years like the Japanese made cars.
I won't even touch with 10 foot pole their Samsumg and LG brands of
home appliances nd electronic goods either.



Samsung in particular has noticeably cleaned up their act in recent
years. LG is better than they used to be.=20

I think the bigger issue with Kitchen Aide is the fact that they're a
division of a company that makes crappy dishwashers. When they were part of
Hobart they were a-ok. That was a long time ago.=20


  #17 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 24-04-2005, 11:42 PM
Roy
 
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Even with such claim that those Korean companies are improving their
reputation I am still not open in using thier equipments but I still
love their cuisine g.

Regarding kitchen aide mixers whatever changes the do with their
equipments I will never think of buying their toys again.
They should sell those stuff in the Toy 'R' Us shops along with Lego
blocksg.
Kids who want to be bakers and pasty chefs someday may ask their
parents (legitimately) for such educational playthings.

  #18 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 25-04-2005, 01:12 AM
FREECYCLE MOM
 
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"Roy" wrote in message
oups.com...
Even with such claim that those Korean companies are improving their
reputation I am still not open in using thier equipments but I still
love their cuisine g.

Regarding kitchen aide mixers whatever changes the do with their
equipments I will never think of buying their toys again.
They should sell those stuff in the Toy 'R' Us shops along with
Lego
blocksg.
Kids who want to be bakers and pasty chefs someday may ask their
parents (legitimately) for such educational playthings.


I'll have to let you know what I think of my new Samsung Frig.

http://tinyurl.com/b4nl5


  #19 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 25-04-2005, 08:08 AM
GMAN
 
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In article .com, "Roy" wrote:
Perhaps you might look at my recent pictures of the KitchenAid problem


4-15-05.
I am not saying I would or wouldn't recommend a KitchenAid, but just

take a
look at my experience.
http://freepages.family.rootsw=ADeb....il=ADyPage/ki=

t=2E..

Dee

Dee I am glad that your brought that matter out accompanied with
graphic pictures !
Its about time that folks here realize how flimsy is the construction
of that mixer
Several years back, I did have score of bad experience with Kitchen
Aide mixers,
It was common for gear oil to bleed while the machine was running while
mixing a dough; either a bread or a noodle dough.
..In another related experience my sponge batter being mixed failed to
aerate even after a quarter of an hour of high speed beating, I found
out that there were traces of gear oil that destroyed the foam. Another
experience was that the mixing speed change by itself for no reason.
I set it a medium, it goes to low and then to medium again .There are
other peculiarities that particular machine had ( I noticed) as if it
has a mind of its owng.
There are countless other bad experience that made me wary of such
mixers for continuous use in the kitchen.
If I had to use a kitchen aide even for cakes, After a series of 5
mixings I let it rest for an hour before I will use it again.
If I mix a bread dough I let it rest for a few hours before I do
another batch.
I never had that problem with the Hobart Mixers
That is why I preferred the heavy duty HobartN-50 and C-100 for my
small scale baking experiments (which satisfy my experiments that
require continuous repetitive trials). Even if it cost heaps compared
to the Kitchen Aide toy the Hobart machine is a an equipment to die
forg.
..=2EBased on that experience and a number of such mixers that conked down
in my baking trials over the years (which is contrary to the experience
of others in this newsgroup) made me reluctant to open heartedly
recommend such mixer for dough mixing unless you will use it rarely for
such purposeg
I was wondering if the higher capacity Kitchen aide mixer have that
problem that is common with their smaller sized models.
Besides those mixers are made in (Korea and never in the USA.
I never liked Korean made machines. Including their cars like
Hyundai,Daewoo and KIA are just like toy cars that won't last for
years like the Japanese made cars.
I won't even touch with 10 foot pole their Samsumg and LG brands of
home appliances nd electronic goods either.
Roy

I have always felt the same way about the cars and electronics but i have to
admit, Samsung has been making some very fine HDTV sets lately. They are
actually highly coveted compared to sony as of late.


  #20 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 25-04-2005, 09:11 AM
Roy
 
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Samsung has been making some very fine HDTV sets lately. They are
actually highly coveted compared to sony as of late.


Those Korean companies are trying to compensate the inferiority of
their product by riding the high technology band wagon, but that will
not remove the stigma from users who had bad experience with their
products previously.
I tell you, recently someone offered me a good price for latest
Samsung made Notebook computer and mobile phone but I bought the
higher priced HP Compaq and the Nokia respectively as these brands had
been my reliable workhorse for those devices .
People who are easily by good sales pitch from the aggressive
marketing technique of this companies ( like Samsung)are IMO not wise
buyers



  #21 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 25-04-2005, 03:58 PM
Eric Jorgensen
 
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On 25 Apr 2005 01:11:51 -0700
"Roy" wrote:

Samsung has been making some very fine HDTV sets lately. They are
actually highly coveted compared to sony as of late.


Those Korean companies are trying to compensate the inferiority of
their product by riding the high technology band wagon, but that will
not remove the stigma from users who had bad experience with their
products previously.
I tell you, recently someone offered me a good price for latest
Samsung made Notebook computer and mobile phone but I bought the
higher priced HP Compaq and the Nokia respectively as these brands had
been my reliable workhorse for those devices .



I wouldn't buy anything from Carly Fiorina's incarnation of HP. My guess
is that laptop was actually manufactured by Acer - at least the one that i
inspected had nearly all Acer components. fwiw i wouldn't buy a Samsung
notebook either.

I'll give HP another shot in 4-5 years, the new guy may pull things
together.

As for Nokia, I've had three of their phones, and each successively
newer phone had fewer useful features and was harder to use. They had to
take out the calculator feature to let me personalize the ring tones, and
somewhere along the line they necessitated another button press and one
more tier in the menu . . . . Still beats the crap out of Qualcomm though,
I'll give 'em that.



  #22 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 25-04-2005, 07:04 PM
Roy
 
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Buying technologically improved gadgets can be both a bane and boon;
and I prefer to look for features that I am used to and not these new
things that only the kids could appreciate. But there are some
exceptions.
Regarding notebook computers the newer versions had better features
which makes computer use a lot easier and gives you more fun and , I
prefer this newer models which had more useful features than old ones.
In fact the model I have currently is already a magnificent example
of a desktop replacement system and my old desktop is starting to
gather dust due to neglect!
Regarding the mobile phones I prefer the old models that have fewer
features and that really amazes the reseller why I liked the state of
the art notebooks but would go for an already antiquated models for
mobile phones!
The same with mixers, I preferred the equipment that had been proven
for reliability and consistent performance for years and nothing beats
the good and loyal ol' HOBART mixers!
I think this is what hobbyist bakers should look for; If you are a
serious kitchen denizen and a dedicated baking& cooking enthusiast and
preferred a multipurpose durable machine, you should go for an
equipment that can last a life time.
You may have to cancel one of your annual vacation to save funds for
such equipment, but for sure you will be spending a great deal of your
time in the kitchen than in the beaches and cruise shipsg.
Therefore the money invested on that equipment purchase would be what
we call a really, really wise one and you will be occasionally
congratulating yourself for such a good decisiong.
Roy

  #23 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 25-04-2005, 08:34 PM
Dave Bell
 
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On Mon, 25 Apr 2005, Eric Jorgensen wrote:

As for Nokia, I've had three of their phones, and each successively
newer phone had fewer useful features and was harder to use. They had to
take out the calculator feature to let me personalize the ring tones, and
somewhere along the line they necessitated another button press and one
more tier in the menu . . . . Still beats the crap out of Qualcomm though,
I'll give 'em that.


When did the calculator disappear? I just migrated to Cingular, and bought
a new Nokia (3120? I think...). It's not the best calculator, but it beats
the heck out of the one in the LG camera phones the rest of the family
got. What I'd *really* like would be a decent semi-scientific calc I could
download in Java!

Dave
  #24 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 25-04-2005, 08:37 PM
Dave Bell
 
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On Mon, 25 Apr 2005, Roy wrote:

The same with mixers, I preferred the equipment that had been proven
for reliability and consistent performance for years and nothing beats
the good and loyal ol' HOBART mixers!
I think this is what hobbyist bakers should look for; If you are a
serious kitchen denizen and a dedicated baking& cooking enthusiast and
preferred a multipurpose durable machine, you should go for an
equipment that can last a life time.
Roy


Well said, and very good advice. However, for the *small* (quantity) home
baker (whether frequent or in-), is there a reasonable, scaled-down
version of the great Hobart, that can handle 5 to 7 quarts, instead of
20-plus?

Dave
  #25 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 25-04-2005, 08:47 PM
Wayne Boatwright
 
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At this juncture I cannot, in all good conscience, neither justify nor afford
a Hobart mixer, much as I might like to have one. I do have a Hobart era
KitchenAid.

If I had to replace a mixer just now, I would opt for the Viking 7 qt.
model. Both it and its smaller sister have all metal gears. While neither
have a long track record, I've seen no negative criticism on the product.

--
Wayne Boatwright
____________________________________________

Give me a smart idiot over a stupid genius any day.
Sam Goldwyn, 1882-1974


  #26 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 25-04-2005, 09:15 PM
Eric Jorgensen
 
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On Mon, 25 Apr 2005 12:34:06 -0700
Dave Bell wrote:

On Mon, 25 Apr 2005, Eric Jorgensen wrote:

As for Nokia, I've had three of their phones, and each successively
newer phone had fewer useful features and was harder to use. They had
to take out the calculator feature to let me personalize the ring
tones, and somewhere along the line they necessitated another button
press and one more tier in the menu . . . . Still beats the crap out of
Qualcomm though, I'll give 'em that.


When did the calculator disappear? I just migrated to Cingular, and
bought a new Nokia (3120? I think...). It's not the best calculator, but
it beats the heck out of the one in the LG camera phones the rest of the
family got. What I'd *really* like would be a decent semi-scientific calc
I could download in Java!



I've been buying obsolete TDMA phones. My 6160 had the calculator, the
5160 (and 5165 for that matter) and 3360 do not.

I miss being able to pull out the phone and do rudimentary calculations
- I'm a compulsive comparison shopper, but i use an advanced an incredibly
fuzzy and cumbersome theory of comparison shopping where i ignore ads and
spend too much time wandering around in stores.

I end up doing a lot of price-per-unit calculation in my head that i
used to do on the phone, this allows me to determine, for example, that the
jumbo size roll of paper towels costs about 2% more per sheet than the
normal size roll. I then groan and buy it anyway because i prefer buying
paper towels less often.

But the math that i do in my head is a lot fuzzier, so, i recently
purchased this:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...tem=4987316804

Some friends of mine have the phones that fold out into a full keyboard,
and can do just about anything on them.

My problem with the camera phones is the fact that the images are
typically of fairly poor quality and the fact that many carriers expect me
to pay them for the convenience of doing anything with them. I have a great
deal of contempt for the 'perceived value' pricing model that the telephone
service industry is based on. I've worked in the industry and know too well
what's on the other end of the perception.

Some providers disable the phone's ability to transfer images (and other
data, such as address books) over a data cable (or infrared, or bluetooth)
and then expect you to pay per image to have it transferred to you over
their network. I find this repugnant and refuse to play their game, so I'm
sticking with my $10 years-old phone and $15/mo service until i somehow
need more.

Not to say that i won't pay for quality when i see it. Getting excellent
shots out of my new Canon 5mpixel camera:

http://rubix.areb.org/gallery/20050425/img_0160

(of course, i did wait until Amazon briefly offered it for $30 less than
anyone else, and with free shipping too) (frugality is not for the
impatient or weak of heart)

Ironically, the only thing that's piqued my interest in high end phones
of late was an announcement from Samsung of all people that they are
planning to embed a 3 gigabyte hard drive in a feature-filled phone. If
they can cram a reasonably decent 3 megapixel or higher camera into that
as well . . . . . it will probably cost so much money that i still wouldn't
buy it.

There's a real mystique about the possibility of a device that can
replace my cell phone, digital camera, and palm pilot, but i don't predict
anyone doing it *well any time soon.
  #27 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 25-04-2005, 11:44 PM
The Cook
 
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Dave Bell wrote:

On Mon, 25 Apr 2005, Roy wrote:

The same with mixers, I preferred the equipment that had been proven
for reliability and consistent performance for years and nothing beats
the good and loyal ol' HOBART mixers!
I think this is what hobbyist bakers should look for; If you are a
serious kitchen denizen and a dedicated baking& cooking enthusiast and
preferred a multipurpose durable machine, you should go for an
equipment that can last a life time.
Roy


Well said, and very good advice. However, for the *small* (quantity) home
baker (whether frequent or in-), is there a reasonable, scaled-down
version of the great Hobart, that can handle 5 to 7 quarts, instead of
20-plus?

Dave



http://www.acemart.com/merchant.mv?S...Code=HOBN50-64

But it sure looks like my Hobart era Kitchen Aid.
--
Susan N.

"Moral indignation is in most cases two percent moral, 48 percent indignation, and 50 percent envy."
Vittorio De Sica, Italian movie director (1901-1974)
  #28 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 25-04-2005, 11:52 PM
Roy
 
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Well said, and very good advice. However, for the *small* (quantity)
home
baker (whether frequent or in-), is there a reasonable, scaled-down
version of the great Hobart, that can handle 5 to 7 quarts, instead of


20-plus?

I would recommend a 10 quart HOBART C-100 which is excellent for
small scale baking ranging from batters, doughs and pastes.
Here you can mix optiimally small scale doughs that range in
stiffness from bagels to ciabattas.
A kilogram flour base for any dough fits nicely and that is what should
every baking enthusiast do so he or she can apply both small the
commercial formula and larger scale homemade recipes.
The 20 qusrt model is over the top for the baking hobbyist. and need at
least 2 kilogram of llour to be of optimum performance for doughs.
Roy

  #29 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 26-04-2005, 12:39 AM
Mike Avery
 
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The Cook wrote:

http://www.acemart.com/merchant.mv?S...Code=HOBN50-64

But it sure looks like my Hobart era Kitchen Aid.


It's pricey enough..... but it's better than your Hobart era
KitchenAid. The Hobart era KitchenAid mixers still had variable speed
motors, which are inherently at a disadvantage when kneading bread. The
motor is required to develop lots of torque when it's at low speed. And
electric motors don't like doing that.

The mixer in the picture, which has been made for a long, long time
(look on eBay for a hobart N-50 and you'll see some real antiques) has a
geared transmission. That means the mixer has only three speeds, but
they are three carefully chosen speeds. And it also means that the
motor is running at its optimum speed no matter what speed the mixer is
running at.

I have a Hobart era KitchenAid, a K45SS. And when I read the manual it
warns me that it can't knead more than two batches of bread in a row,
and that it then needs a 40 minute rest.

I wonder how many people with KitchenAid problems just assume it can
knead and knead and knead all day long.... until it fries. And then
it's a piece of junk in the eye of the purchaser.

Mike

  #30 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 26-04-2005, 02:29 AM
Mary Beth Goodman
 
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In article
therwhen.com,
Mike Avery wrote:

I have a Hobart era KitchenAid, a K45SS. And when I read the manual it
warns me that it can't knead more than two batches of bread in a row,
and that it then needs a 40 minute rest.

I wonder how many people with KitchenAid problems just assume it can
knead and knead and knead all day long.... until it fries. And then
it's a piece of junk in the eye of the purchaser.



I think you're right -- I know that when I got my grinding attachment,
it clearly said to only use it for so long and then to let the machine
rest.

On the plus side, when my 4 year old, 5 qt KA died suddenly,
Williams-Sonoma replaced it. Since that model was out of production,
they let me pay the difference towards a new 6 qt model and I couldn't
be happier with it.

The bread I'm making has a big portion of pre-ferment, and an autolyse
phase, so the actual machine time is pretty darn short. I find that
pretty amazing actually, but it sure does it well. My big workout
personally is moving it in the kitchen because it's too tall to sit on
my counter! :-)

I've made double batches of cookies and it makes it look SO easy (and
heck the co-workers never complain, eh?)

I think what I learned in my experience was that it was worth buying a
good product from a company that would stand behind what it sells. My
next purchase will be an extra bowl for it.

--
Mary Beth
Orientation::Quilter
http://www.quiltr.com
http://www.fruitcakesociety.org
http://homepage.mac.com/mbgoodman/bread05/


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