Baking (rec.food.baking) For bakers, would-be bakers, and fans and consumers of breads, pastries, cakes, pies, cookies, crackers, bagels, and other items commonly found in a bakery. Includes all methods of preparation, both conventional and not.

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Old 23-05-2004, 12:29 PM
Marc
 
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Default Best equipment for new bakery

My wife and I are starting a new business and we plan to focus our
efforts on cookies. This is our first business, and we've found a lot
of information about recipes, techniques, supplies, locations,
marketing, licensing, etc.

The area that remains the biggest mystery to us is equipment:
- Oven - electric convection
- cook top - also electric, due to ventilation limitations
- refrigerator/freezer
- commercial dish washer - How do I find one large enough for big
cookie sheets (or are these usually cleaned by hand?)
- coffee maker/espresso machine

In order to minimize our startup costs, I'd like to consider used
equipment. Is this recommended or is it a bad idea. I've heard there
are auctions for this sort of stuff. How do I find them? I didn't
see anything in the newspaper. We're in the New York City area. Can
I trust the quality/condition?

Should I also consider renting equipment? Like the coffee/espresso
machine, in particular?

I'm also wondering what the good brands are? Are there any particular
features I should look for? Are there any resources that review or
compare/contrast this equipment? Like a consumer reports for
commercial grade equipment?

Any information on any of these topics would be greatly appreciated.

Thank you,
Marc & Jennifer

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Old 23-05-2004, 02:24 PM
MOM PEAGRAM
 
Posts: n/a
Default Best equipment for new bakery

rec.food.equipment.

"Marc" wrote in message
om...
My wife and I are starting a new business and we plan to focus our
efforts on cookies. This is our first business, and we've found a lot
of information about recipes, techniques, supplies, locations,
marketing, licensing, etc.

The area that remains the biggest mystery to us is equipment:
- Oven - electric convection
- cook top - also electric, due to ventilation limitations
- refrigerator/freezer
- commercial dish washer - How do I find one large enough for big
cookie sheets (or are these usually cleaned by hand?)
- coffee maker/espresso machine

In order to minimize our startup costs, I'd like to consider used
equipment. Is this recommended or is it a bad idea. I've heard there
are auctions for this sort of stuff. How do I find them? I didn't
see anything in the newspaper. We're in the New York City area. Can
I trust the quality/condition?

Should I also consider renting equipment? Like the coffee/espresso
machine, in particular?

I'm also wondering what the good brands are? Are there any particular
features I should look for? Are there any resources that review or
compare/contrast this equipment? Like a consumer reports for
commercial grade equipment?

Any information on any of these topics would be greatly appreciated.

Thank you,
Marc & Jennifer



  #3 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 23-05-2004, 08:15 PM
Petey the Wonder Dog
 
Posts: n/a
Default Best equipment for new bakery

Far as I can tell, someone wrote:
My wife and I are starting a new business and we plan to focus our
efforts on cookies. This is our first business, and we've found a lot
of information about recipes, techniques, supplies, locations,
marketing, licensing, etc.


Before you do anything else, go to http://www.sba.gov/sbdc/ and find an
office of the Small Business Developement Center near you. It's almost
always free, except for a few of the classes, which are less than $25.
You will learn LOTS of stuff you haven't even thought of.

I very strongly recommend them.

The area that remains the biggest mystery to us is equipment:


I'll tell you about equipment, but read your previous line again. You
THINK equipment is your biggest mystery, which is wrong. The biggest
mystery is not knowing what you don't know. that's whay you need the
SBDC.

Now for some answers.

- Oven - electric convection


Do you have three phase electric where you want to open? You'll
probably need it. I have an electric convection oven with steam
injection and a rotating rack. It hold a rack with 18 full sized trays.

- cook top - also electric, due to ventilation limitations


Limitations notwithstanding, the government will most likely tell you
that you HAVE to install ventilation. Do you have a site plan?

- refrigerator/freezer


Look to Traulsen and True brands. Used ones are all over the place, but
don't buy too old. The coils could break and then it's garbage.

- commercial dish washer - How do I find one large enough for big
cookie sheets (or are these usually cleaned by hand?)


For a while, you may want to clean by hand, or pay a kid minimum wage to
do it. Do you have any idea how many trays will need cleaning each day?

- coffee maker/espresso machine


Go to alt.coffee. Terrific group with very very informed users and lots
of professional shop owners.

Also go to www.coffeegeek.com and and www.coffeekid.com . Also see
http://www.1st-line.com/ and www.wholelattelove.com . Companies like
http://www.sndcoffee.com/ can get you set up with coffee makers, beans
and grinders,. You buy the beans from them, they lend you the
equipment.

Stay away from Coke and Pepsi. They will lend you a free fridge, but
charge you through the nose for the soda. Like 65 cents a bottle. I
bought a fridge on E-bay for less than $500 and buy my soda from
Wal-Mart for 33 cents a bottle.

In order to minimize our startup costs, I'd like to consider used
equipment. Is this recommended or is it a bad idea. I've heard there
are auctions for this sort of stuff. How do I find them? I didn't
see anything in the newspaper. We're in the New York City area. Can
I trust the quality/condition?


I bought almost everything in my bagel shop on E-Bay or locally, used.
It helps a lot to do tons of research first.

Should I also consider renting equipment? Like the coffee/espresso
machine, in particular?


Dunno where, but ask at alt.coffee. I have a Bezzera which I bought new
on E-Bay for $1400. Works great. You'll also need a coffee grinder for
the espresso.

I'm also wondering what the good brands are? Are there any particular
features I should look for? Are there any resources that review or
compare/contrast this equipment? Like a consumer reports for
commercial grade equipment?


All on alt.coffee. Try reading the group for a few days and looking at
all the web sites on espresso you can find first. Naturally, they get
bored with repeated questions. Just be polite and friendly and show you
gratitude a bit.

Finally, do you have a business plan? Fully expect to spend more than
double your best guess. I really mean it. More than double.

Have you worked in a bakery? Perhaps you should for a short while. A
coffee shop? Same thing. Go to several shops and buy something to eat.
While there, make a list of every piece of equipment you think you might
need. Get a membership at Costco or Sams Club. See their websites and
explore explore explore. Keep files on each type of equipment. Start
lists of everything you'll possibly need. Paper goods, cups, plates.
napkins, towels, utensils, foils, assorted boxes, assorted bags, plastic
gloves, tray liners, decorative liners, cup lids, etc etc etc. Keep
EXCELLENT lists on spread sheets.

Pretty soon you'll see what I mean about cost over-runs.

Next, go see a baker or two and ask them about government regs and how
they can cost a fortune. You may want to go to another town where they
won't view you as competition. You'll need a three compartment sink and
hand sinks and probably a mop sink. Probably also a grease trap.

Hope this is a start.


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Old 05-06-2004, 06:06 PM
Marc
 
Posts: n/a
Default Best equipment for new bakery

Petey the Wonder Dog wrote in message . ..
Far as I can tell, someone wrote:
My wife and I are starting a new business and we plan to focus our
efforts on cookies. This is our first business, and we've found a lot
of information about recipes, techniques, supplies, locations,
marketing, licensing, etc.


Before you do anything else, go to http://www.sba.gov/sbdc/ and find an
office of the Small Business Developement Center near you. It's almost
always free, except for a few of the classes, which are less than $25.
You will learn LOTS of stuff you haven't even thought of.

I very strongly recommend them.

The area that remains the biggest mystery to us is equipment:


I'll tell you about equipment, but read your previous line again. You
THINK equipment is your biggest mystery, which is wrong. The biggest
mystery is not knowing what you don't know. that's whay you need the
SBDC.

Now for some answers.

- Oven - electric convection


Do you have three phase electric where you want to open? You'll
probably need it. I have an electric convection oven with steam
injection and a rotating rack. It hold a rack with 18 full sized trays.

- cook top - also electric, due to ventilation limitations


Limitations notwithstanding, the government will most likely tell you
that you HAVE to install ventilation. Do you have a site plan?

- refrigerator/freezer


Look to Traulsen and True brands. Used ones are all over the place, but
don't buy too old. The coils could break and then it's garbage.

- commercial dish washer - How do I find one large enough for big
cookie sheets (or are these usually cleaned by hand?)


For a while, you may want to clean by hand, or pay a kid minimum wage to
do it. Do you have any idea how many trays will need cleaning each day?

- coffee maker/espresso machine


Go to alt.coffee. Terrific group with very very informed users and lots
of professional shop owners.

Also go to www.coffeegeek.com and and www.coffeekid.com . Also see
http://www.1st-line.com/ and www.wholelattelove.com . Companies like
http://www.sndcoffee.com/ can get you set up with coffee makers, beans
and grinders,. You buy the beans from them, they lend you the
equipment.

Stay away from Coke and Pepsi. They will lend you a free fridge, but
charge you through the nose for the soda. Like 65 cents a bottle. I
bought a fridge on E-bay for less than $500 and buy my soda from
Wal-Mart for 33 cents a bottle.

In order to minimize our startup costs, I'd like to consider used
equipment. Is this recommended or is it a bad idea. I've heard there
are auctions for this sort of stuff. How do I find them? I didn't
see anything in the newspaper. We're in the New York City area. Can
I trust the quality/condition?


I bought almost everything in my bagel shop on E-Bay or locally, used.
It helps a lot to do tons of research first.

Should I also consider renting equipment? Like the coffee/espresso
machine, in particular?


Dunno where, but ask at alt.coffee. I have a Bezzera which I bought new
on E-Bay for $1400. Works great. You'll also need a coffee grinder for
the espresso.

I'm also wondering what the good brands are? Are there any particular
features I should look for? Are there any resources that review or
compare/contrast this equipment? Like a consumer reports for
commercial grade equipment?


All on alt.coffee. Try reading the group for a few days and looking at
all the web sites on espresso you can find first. Naturally, they get
bored with repeated questions. Just be polite and friendly and show you
gratitude a bit.

Finally, do you have a business plan? Fully expect to spend more than
double your best guess. I really mean it. More than double.

Have you worked in a bakery? Perhaps you should for a short while. A
coffee shop? Same thing. Go to several shops and buy something to eat.
While there, make a list of every piece of equipment you think you might
need. Get a membership at Costco or Sams Club. See their websites and
explore explore explore. Keep files on each type of equipment. Start
lists of everything you'll possibly need. Paper goods, cups, plates.
napkins, towels, utensils, foils, assorted boxes, assorted bags, plastic
gloves, tray liners, decorative liners, cup lids, etc etc etc. Keep
EXCELLENT lists on spread sheets.

Pretty soon you'll see what I mean about cost over-runs.

Next, go see a baker or two and ask them about government regs and how
they can cost a fortune. You may want to go to another town where they
won't view you as competition. You'll need a three compartment sink and
hand sinks and probably a mop sink. Probably also a grease trap.

Hope this is a start.



Thanks for the link to SBA. We do have our business plan and we're
seeking all the advice we can get.

According to local city laws, we can get away without ventilation if
we have electric instead of gas. I don't think our products will
suffer from a non-gas oven, so I think this is the way we are going to
go. In particular, can you recommend some good brand names for ovens?

We're still trying to locate the space, but we're setting aside money
for electric work, plumbing, etc since the space is likely to not be
set up for a kitchen.

Thanks for the tips.
Marc & Jennifer
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Old 05-06-2004, 10:28 PM
Petey the Wonder Dog
 
Posts: n/a
Default Best equipment for new bakery

Far as I can tell, someone wrote:
In particular, can you recommend some good brand names for ovens?


I have a Baker's Ade oven.

It's a rotating rack, steam injected convection type. Three phase
electric.

BA was bought out by Hobart a few years ago.

I know that Revent ovens are excellent, but can't tell you any more than
that.


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