Baking (rec.food.baking) For bakers, would-be bakers, and fans and consumers of breads, pastries, cakes, pies, cookies, crackers, bagels, and other items commonly found in a bakery. Includes all methods of preparation, both conventional and not.

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  #16 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 23-05-2004, 12:16 AM
Roy Basan
 
Posts: n/a
Default Icing secret ???

(Roy Basan) wrote in message . com...
(N. Thornton) wrote in message . com...
lol! Its a lovely moist coating. Readers will note youve not actually
tried it.

Therefore in the
end you will end up with a soapy tasting food.



This is all a beautiful illustration of the old saying 'theory and
practice are the same in theory, but different in practice.'

Although
what you say might sound believable, its far from what happens. I've
been making coconut icing for years, and whether you believe me or
not, its definitely a superior icing. Try some and find out. If you
dont, youre guessing, or maybe reasoning, but not reasoning right
somewhere.


Coconut icing with no sugar? That is a misnomer…
An icing or even called a frosting usually contains sugar. It may or
may not contain fat.Such as the boiled icing and related meringue
based icing.
But what you are talking about is a mixture of coconut oil and
cardamom powder. That is considered a coating and not an icing.
However if that how you call it then that's fine.

I think I will never be able to try that as in my situation icings are
sweet and if its bland and spicy the bakery business will go bankrupt.
You do not make things just to prove a point; I produce things because
somebody needs it and the business I am working with depends on it.


a guess

It is not a conjecture,,,,What you are doing is considered (frankly
speaking)sheer madness …..
Mixing fat and spice and call that an icing? What a silly idea that
no respectable bakery employer will even think about. being sold in
his bakery.

If I have to make your style use that to coat my cakes and present
that to the customer, ....
Gosh! Somebody will bring a straitjacket to tie me up and bring me to
the insane asylum!
That will be the end to my illustrious and lucrative career.

I have seen some sample of that so called fat block made with coconut
fat. It is called Copha.It is a firm block of fat appearing like
tallow but whiter.
I am using it as the fat component ( instead of costly butter)to
prepare commercial caramel and fudge sweets. From my experience in
using it, its not dispersible in water. It needs an emulsifier.

no: what you say is true if the concentration is low, but over a

wide
range it disperses very well. I've never had a dispersion problem,

but
I know not to try using it the way you describe.


Well again I do not have the opportunity to verify such claim. If I
will experiment with that (and as requied by company regulation)
record the complete details of the trial in our R&D information
atabase; and somebody in the company reads it; I will be subjected to
ridicule and my professional credibility will be tarnished.
The company technical manager will say ‘there is a wacko in this
establishment.
Get rid of him while he still partly sober!'

Even if
I add glycerol monostearate( GMS) to form an emulsion( so that caramel
sweet will be homogenous looking) with continous stirring,its is
difficult to disperse in water.
I also notice that if the fat was improperly emulsified in the cooking
of such particular candy, you will find globules of fat on the surface
of the finished confection.


low concentration, different hardening temps probably as well.


Well no matter if the concentration is higher or lower. In past
trials with coconut based shortening when I was still in Asia. I had
applied that shortening in many aspects of bakery application. From
bread,cakes, cookies, pastries. It had a consistent result that the
products upon storage( for even a few days) tend to exhibit that soapy
aftertaste and a faint aroma technically described as methyl ketone
which is unpleasant.In some cases it can exhibit an odour of dried
copra.
Now going back to your idea of making a water in oil emulsion or i.e.
technically speaking the aqueous phase is dispersed in the fat phase(
or simply a greater ratio of fat in relation to water how do you
stabilize that?
I do not see good stability of such coating.


its perfectly stable


You still have much to learn about the peculiarity of coconut oil
based fats.
Indeed its stable to oxidative rancidity because of little amount of
linoleic acid; but not to hydrolytic rancidity because of the high
content of lauric fatty acid which is almost 50 Percent of the total
fatty acids in coconut fat.˜ This is why the latter spoilage pathway
is more faster (10X faster if compared to other fats)in coconut fat
than in other oils (except palm kernel oil which is similar in
composition to the coconut and exhibit the same spoilage pattern).
This latter kind of spoilage is common when you put water in the
coconut fat and agitate it without any heat treatment.To tell you I
did not have good success with using coconut fat as the base for white
icing which I had good results with soybean and cottonseed based
shortening in terms which are capable of producing a clean tasting
icing that can carry a wide range of flavors.


If you think that you really love the coconut fat, it implies that you
had a fetish for such fatg.

'
If
It just surprises me that you did not even experienced that.

,
Another thing that is has lower stability is that the fatty acid
called lauric acid is abundant in such fat.In presence of moisture(
you are adding water in it) and the microbes floating in the air will
come in contact with the mixture releasing enzymes( lipases) that will
split the fat (triglyceride) say( palm-oloein
laurein),stearo-laurein palmitin,etc) resulting in the breakdown to
its component palmitic acid, stearic aid, oleic acid and lauric
acid.The last component is responsiblef for the soapy taste.
This lauric acid will react with existing sodium ions ( mineral
content)present in the formulation to form a soap. Therefore in the
end you will end up with a soapy tasting food.


no. There are other constituents in coconut youre overlooking.

Wait,,,, what are the constituents of coconut fat?
Let us see the chemistry….
this is the breakdown of the fatty acid content of such fat:
Caprylic acid 7.6%
Capric acid 7.3%
Lauric acid 48.2%
Myristic acid 16.6%
Palmitic acid 8
Palmitoleic acid 1.0%
Stearic acid 3.8%
Oleic acid 5%
Linoleic acid 2.5%

The other fatty acids are found also in other fats such palm oil,
soyabean, corn, sunflower, cottonseed.
So may I ask what are the constituents of coconut fat that I missed?
Unless you are using a proprietary composition that contains not only
coconut but also other materials.

ry it, or dont, your choice.

Naah, I;'m sorry ……I still love my job….
BTW, when you start making that ‘loony icing' again I think its better
if :
you can start singing at the same time this coconut songg.

‘The coconut nut is not a nut.
IF you eat too much you get very fat'
…………
‘It is the coco fruit,
from the coco tree ,
of the coco palm family.'

NT?

Are you from northern territory in Australia? I was trying to think of
what is the reason for your fondness for coconut.g
Northern territory being in the tropical part of australia has lots of
coconut in it.
Regards,
Roy Basan

  #17 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 23-05-2004, 10:35 AM
N. Thornton
 
Posts: n/a
Default Icing secret ???

(Roy Basan) wrote in message om...
(N. Thornton) wrote in message . com...

lol! Its a lovely moist coating. Readers will note youve not actually
tried it.

Therefore in the
end you will end up with a soapy tasting food.



This is all a beautiful illustration of the old saying 'theory and
practice are the same in theory, but different in practice.'

Although
what you say might sound believable, its far from what happens. I've
been making coconut icing for years, and whether you believe me or
not, its definitely a superior icing. Try some and find out. If you
dont, youre guessing, or maybe reasoning, but not reasoning right
somewhere.


Coconut icing with no sugar? That is a misnomer?
An icing or even called a frosting usually contains sugar. It may or
may not contain fat.Such as the boiled icing and related meringue
based icing.
But what you are talking about is a mixture of coconut oil and
cardamom powder. That is considered a coating and not an icing.
However if that how you call it then that's fine.

I think I will never be able to try that as in my situation icings are
sweet and if its bland and spicy the bakery business will go bankrupt.
You do not make things just to prove a point; I produce things because
somebody needs it and the business I am working with depends on it.


a guess

It is not a conjecture,,,,What you are doing is considered (frankly
speaking)sheer madness ?..
Mixing fat and spice and call that an icing? What a silly idea that
no respectable bakery employer will even think about. being sold in
his bakery.

If I have to make your style use that to coat my cakes and present
that to the customer, ....
Gosh! Somebody will bring a straitjacket to tie me up and bring me to
the insane asylum!
That will be the end to my illustrious and lucrative career.

I have seen some sample of that so called fat block made with coconut
fat. It is called Copha.It is a firm block of fat appearing like
tallow but whiter.
I am using it as the fat component ( instead of costly butter)to
prepare commercial caramel and fudge sweets. From my experience in
using it, its not dispersible in water. It needs an emulsifier.

no: what you say is true if the concentration is low, but over a

wide
range it disperses very well. I've never had a dispersion problem,

but
I know not to try using it the way you describe.


Well again I do not have the opportunity to verify such claim. If I
will experiment with that (and as requied by company regulation)
record the complete details of the trial in our R&D information
atabase; and somebody in the company reads it; I will be subjected to
ridicule and my professional credibility will be tarnished.
The company technical manager will say ?there is a wacko in this
establishment.
Get rid of him while he still partly sober!'

Even if
I add glycerol monostearate( GMS) to form an emulsion( so that caramel
sweet will be homogenous looking) with continous stirring,its is
difficult to disperse in water.
I also notice that if the fat was improperly emulsified in the cooking
of such particular candy, you will find globules of fat on the surface
of the finished confection.


low concentration, different hardening temps probably as well.


Well no matter if the concentration is higher or lower. In past
trials with coconut based shortening when I was still in Asia. I had
applied that shortening in many aspects of bakery application. From
bread,cakes, cookies, pastries. It had a consistent result that the
products upon storage( for even a few days) tend to exhibit that soapy
aftertaste and a faint aroma technically described as methyl ketone
which is unpleasant.In some cases it can exhibit an odour of dried
copra.
Now going back to your idea of making a water in oil emulsion or i.e.
technically speaking the aqueous phase is dispersed in the fat phase(
or simply a greater ratio of fat in relation to water how do you
stabilize that?
I do not see good stability of such coating.


its perfectly stable


You still have much to learn about the peculiarity of coconut oil
based fats.
Indeed its stable to oxidative rancidity because of little amount of
linoleic acid; but not to hydrolytic rancidity because of the high
content of lauric fatty acid which is almost 50 Percent of the total
fatty acids in coconut fat.? This is why the latter spoilage pathway
is more faster (10X faster if compared to other fats)in coconut fat
than in other oils (except palm kernel oil which is similar in
composition to the coconut and exhibit the same spoilage pattern).
This latter kind of spoilage is common when you put water in the
coconut fat and agitate it without any heat treatment.To tell you I
did not have good success with using coconut fat as the base for white
icing which I had good results with soybean and cottonseed based
shortening in terms which are capable of producing a clean tasting
icing that can carry a wide range of flavors.


If you think that you really love the coconut fat, it implies that you
had a fetish for such fatg.

'
If
It just surprises me that you did not even experienced that.

,
Another thing that is has lower stability is that the fatty acid
called lauric acid is abundant in such fat.In presence of moisture(
you are adding water in it) and the microbes floating in the air will
come in contact with the mixture releasing enzymes( lipases) that will
split the fat (triglyceride) say( palm-oloein
laurein),stearo-laurein palmitin,etc) resulting in the breakdown to
its component palmitic acid, stearic aid, oleic acid and lauric
acid.The last component is responsiblef for the soapy taste.
This lauric acid will react with existing sodium ions ( mineral
content)present in the formulation to form a soap. Therefore in the
end you will end up with a soapy tasting food.


no. There are other constituents in coconut youre overlooking.

Wait,,,, what are the constituents of coconut fat?
Let us see the chemistry?.
this is the breakdown of the fatty acid content of such fat:
Caprylic acid 7.6%
Capric acid 7.3%
Lauric acid 48.2%
Myristic acid 16.6%
Palmitic acid 8
Palmitoleic acid 1.0%
Stearic acid 3.8%
Oleic acid 5%
Linoleic acid 2.5%

The other fatty acids are found also in other fats such palm oil,
soyabean, corn, sunflower, cottonseed.
So may I ask what are the constituents of coconut fat that I missed?
Unless you are using a proprietary composition that contains not only
coconut but also other materials.

ry it, or dont, your choice.

Naah, I;'m sorry ??I still love my job?.
BTW, when you start making that ?loony icing' again I think its better
if :
you can start singing at the same time this coconut songg.

?The coconut nut is not a nut.
IF you eat too much you get very fat'
????
?It is the coco fruit,
from the coco tree ,
of the coco palm family.'

NT?

Are you from northern territory in Australia? I was trying to think of
what is the reason for your fondness for coconut.g
Northern territory being in the tropical part of australia has lots of
coconut in it.
Regards,
Roy Basan



Every one of your points you raised here was already answered in my
post to which you responded - except one. The answer to that one is
caprylic acid. You sound to me like a true fool. You dont seem to have
followed any of it, or applied even basic sense. I wish you luck with
your bakery, though it doesnt sounds like your range is anything to
write home about.


Regards, NT
  #18 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 23-05-2004, 11:15 AM
Eric Jorgensen
 
Posts: n/a
Default Icing secret ???

On 22 May 2004 16:16:54 -0700
(Roy Basan) wrote:

(Roy Basan) wrote in message
. com...
(N. Thornton) wrote in message
. com...=20
lol! Its a lovely moist coating. Readers will note youve not
actually tried it.=20

Therefore in the
end you will end up with a soapy tasting food.

=20
=20
This is all a beautiful illustration of the old saying 'theory and
practice are the same in theory, but different in practice.'

Although
what you say might sound believable, its far from what happens. I've
been making coconut icing for years, and whether you believe me or
not, its definitely a superior icing. Try some and find out. If you
dont, youre guessing, or maybe reasoning, but not reasoning right
somewhere.

=20
Coconut icing with no sugar? That is a misnomer=85
An icing or even called a frosting usually contains sugar. It may or=20
may not contain fat.Such as the boiled icing and related meringue
based icing.
But what you are talking about is a mixture of coconut oil and
cardamom powder. That is considered a coating and not an icing.
However if that how you call it then that's fine.
=20
I think I will never be able to try that as in my situation icings are
sweet and if its bland and spicy the bakery business will go bankrupt.
You do not make things just to prove a point; I produce things because
somebody needs it and the business I am working with depends on it.
=20
=20
a guess

It is not a conjecture,,,,What you are doing is considered (frankly
speaking)sheer madness =85..
Mixing fat and spice and call that an icing? What a silly idea that
no respectable bakery employer will even think about. being sold in
his bakery.
=20
If I have to make your style use that to coat my cakes and present
that to the customer, ....
Gosh! Somebody will bring a straitjacket to tie me up and bring me to
the insane asylum!
That will be the end to my illustrious and lucrative career.
=20
I have seen some sample of that so called fat block made with
coconut fat. It is called Copha.It is a firm block of fat appearing
like tallow but whiter.
I am using it as the fat component ( instead of costly butter)to
prepare commercial caramel and fudge sweets. From my experience in
using it, its not dispersible in water. It needs an emulsifier.

no: what you say is true if the concentration is low, but over a

wide
range it disperses very well. I've never had a dispersion problem,

but
I know not to try using it the way you describe.

=20
Well again I do not have the opportunity to verify such claim. If I
will experiment with that (and as requied by company regulation)
record the complete details of the trial in our R&D information
atabase; and somebody in the company reads it; I will be subjected to
ridicule and my professional credibility will be tarnished.
The company technical manager will say =91there is a wacko in this
establishment.
Get rid of him while he still partly sober!'



Hey, maybe you're just looking at this the wrong way.=20

Maybe you could market this as "Atkins-Friendly Low-Carb Sugar-Free
Glaze"

Yes, I know it's got essentially no carbohydrates, but as Pepsi and
Coke are noticing, a non-carbohydrate, nay, even non-caloric product is
not nearly as attractive to the modern dieter as a low-carbohydrate
product.

Best to just, fudge the truth a little, and see if you can find some
way to get someone on fatkins to buy a donut from you. If it tastes like
a scented candle, that's actually a recommendation for it, since dieters
have this bizarre sense of flagellation where they feel guilty if their
food isn't nasty and unappetizing.=20

  #19 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 23-05-2004, 01:23 PM
Eric Jorgensen
 
Posts: n/a
Default Icing secret ???

On 22 May 2004 16:16:54 -0700
(Roy Basan) wrote:

(Roy Basan) wrote in message
. com...
(N. Thornton) wrote in message
. com...=20
lol! Its a lovely moist coating. Readers will note youve not
actually tried it.=20

Therefore in the
end you will end up with a soapy tasting food.

=20
=20
This is all a beautiful illustration of the old saying 'theory and
practice are the same in theory, but different in practice.'

Although
what you say might sound believable, its far from what happens. I've
been making coconut icing for years, and whether you believe me or
not, its definitely a superior icing. Try some and find out. If you
dont, youre guessing, or maybe reasoning, but not reasoning right
somewhere.

=20
Coconut icing with no sugar? That is a misnomer=85
An icing or even called a frosting usually contains sugar. It may or=20
may not contain fat.Such as the boiled icing and related meringue
based icing.
But what you are talking about is a mixture of coconut oil and
cardamom powder. That is considered a coating and not an icing.
However if that how you call it then that's fine.
=20
I think I will never be able to try that as in my situation icings are
sweet and if its bland and spicy the bakery business will go bankrupt.
You do not make things just to prove a point; I produce things because
somebody needs it and the business I am working with depends on it.
=20
=20
a guess

It is not a conjecture,,,,What you are doing is considered (frankly
speaking)sheer madness =85..
Mixing fat and spice and call that an icing? What a silly idea that
no respectable bakery employer will even think about. being sold in
his bakery.
=20
If I have to make your style use that to coat my cakes and present
that to the customer, ....
Gosh! Somebody will bring a straitjacket to tie me up and bring me to
the insane asylum!
That will be the end to my illustrious and lucrative career.
=20
I have seen some sample of that so called fat block made with
coconut fat. It is called Copha.It is a firm block of fat appearing
like tallow but whiter.
I am using it as the fat component ( instead of costly butter)to
prepare commercial caramel and fudge sweets. From my experience in
using it, its not dispersible in water. It needs an emulsifier.

no: what you say is true if the concentration is low, but over a

wide
range it disperses very well. I've never had a dispersion problem,

but
I know not to try using it the way you describe.

=20
Well again I do not have the opportunity to verify such claim. If I
will experiment with that (and as requied by company regulation)
record the complete details of the trial in our R&D information
atabase; and somebody in the company reads it; I will be subjected to
ridicule and my professional credibility will be tarnished.
The company technical manager will say =91there is a wacko in this
establishment.
Get rid of him while he still partly sober!'



Hey, maybe you're just looking at this the wrong way.=20

Maybe you could market this as "Atkins-Friendly Low-Carb Sugar-Free
Glaze"

Yes, I know it's got essentially no carbohydrates, but as Pepsi and
Coke are noticing, a non-carbohydrate, nay, even non-caloric product is
not nearly as attractive to the modern dieter as a low-carbohydrate
product.

Best to just, fudge the truth a little, and see if you can find some
way to get someone on fatkins to buy a donut from you. If it tastes like
a scented candle, that's actually a recommendation for it, since dieters
have this bizarre sense of flagellation where they feel guilty if their
food isn't nasty and unappetizing.=20

  #20 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 23-05-2004, 05:14 PM
Vox Humana
 
Posts: n/a
Default Icing secret ???


"Eric Jorgensen" wrote in message
news:[email protected]
On 22 May 2004 16:16:54 -0700
(Roy Basan) wrote:
Hey, maybe you're just looking at this the wrong way.

Maybe you could market this as "Atkins-Friendly Low-Carb Sugar-Free
Glaze"



....... or, as a sun tan lotion.




  #22 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 24-05-2004, 12:20 AM
Roy Basan
 
Posts: n/a
Default Icing secret ???

Eric Jorgensen wrote in message news:[email protected]


Hey, maybe you're just looking at this the wrong way.

Maybe you could market this as "Atkins-Friendly Low-Carb Sugar-Free
Glaze"

Yes, I know it's got essentially no carbohydrates, but as Pepsi and
Coke are noticing, a non-carbohydrate, nay, even non-caloric product is
not nearly as attractive to the modern dieter as a low-carbohydrate
product.

Best to just, fudge the truth a little, and see if you can find some
way to get someone on fatkins to buy a donut from you. If it tastes like
a scented candle, that's actually a recommendation for it, since dieters
have this bizarre sense of flagellation where they feel guilty if their
food isn't nasty and unappetizing.


FATKINS, that's a nice one eric... they want to avoid carbohydrates
but they do not have the same zeal in avoiding the fat( that goes
usually with many protein foods) which carry more calorie than
carbohydrate per unnit weight.
Roy
Well an icing is supposed to be high cal.
  #24 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 25-05-2004, 08:23 AM
Roy Basan
 
Posts: n/a
Default Icing secret ???

(N. Thornton) wrote in message . com...
(Roy Basan) wrote in message . com...
(N. Thornton) wrote in message om...

Every one of your points you raised here was already answered in my
post to which you responded - except one. The answer to that one is
caprylic acid. You sound to me like a true fool. You dont seem to have
followed any of it, or applied even basic sense. I wish you luck with
your bakery, though it doesnt sounds like your range is anything to
write home about.


Really? why don't you try working in the same situation as me and see
if you can just apply easily what you think is good for you is good
for the rest of the people?.


The only and the obvious way forward is to make a bit at home and try
it. Or accept you havent tried it.


Meanwhile....
I have talked about your idea to other technicaly trained bakery
people ,They were laughing out loudly, and one of them and asked
me .
Is this NT guy really sober? Is he real a person or another entity
from elswehere.
From what planet did he came from?
Roy


Yeah, I'm not surprised. If they had sense they wouldnt have picked
catering, its hardly a good career choice.

Look at it this way Roy, if you dont try any new input you wont
discover anything new to you. I've used it and its yum. Your missed
chance to find out if its another string to your bow or not, doesnt
bother me.


Regards, NT


You really had loony tastes then.....

I do not know NT but in that discussion with the group over bottles
of beer.It was just a funny topic that brought so much laughter.
They tried to find out the possible outcome of such combination. It is
standard shortening based icing formulation to use sugar as the base
and the fat is just the secondary ingredient.
If you had to prepare the ordinary buttercream made with shortening
creaming it by itself without sugar does not led to a desirable
structure.
If you had to use a palette knife to spread that over a cake its just
akin spreading margarine to a piece of bread.
Or if you want it to be less light you just can take the shortening
from the tub and plasticize it a bit and spread and what will be the
outcome. It is slightly firmer but insipid and nothing but fat.
Or in your case, the coconut fat has a sharp melting point you just
have to melt carefully and pour it over the product being decorated.
That is enrobing like what you do with chocolate.One of the
apprentices I remember did even tried to use melted cocoa butter to
enrobed his cookies and the results was 'inedible' that many who
tasted the cookie puked . How much more with coconut fat which is
bland and even if laced with cardamom its still taste gross.
One of the mates asked. What does caprylic acid( he read your last
post)do to the functionality of coconut fat, nothing significant....it
may contribute to the very slight improvement of the coconut fat aroma
but that particular fat together with lauric acid is one cause of the
flavor deterioration and spoilage of coconut fat.

Now one of the guys argued; you do not have sugar then you are not
likely to smother the fat with heaps of powdered cardamom spice and
use the considerable of it that it will appear as speckled icing. It
will be grossly overpowering.
A fundammental role of such cake coating is that it will complement
the cake being decorated not surpass the taste of the cake.
Now you have a cake which as typical sweet taste. Then you coat that
with a bland icing ( no sugar).
He quipped further unless that customer is another a loony, or
another alien, maybe it would work.
That is why he remarked if the creator of this 'loony icing' is not
human beingg but some form an alien (and due to superior
intelligence was able to look like a man)who had been in this earth
for some time,but had wacky taste, who really love the pungent flavor
of cardamom which is not avaialable in their planetg. He further
said , do you mind if you ask him from what solar system is your
planet in this universe.
He just love UFO stories ,and if not for his wife who opposed, he
could have named his bakery ' The Hidden Planet Cake Shop'
But unfortunately even if he likes reading about aliens he
vehemently detest their tastes (just taking you as an example).

It really does not make sense...how its figured out.
In addition one of my mates countered. If that guy NT is really
serious about it how can he possibly eat a cake coated with fat and
cardamom spice.
He reasoned what is in cardamom spice that can mimic sugar, nothing.
It is just a fibrous matter a conglomerate of protein, starches
,fiber and slight fat and essential oil.
It is a fact in the bakery products that even cardamom addition in the
bakery products does not bode well if the customer is not used to it
in a certain bakery item.
It is added in measured amounts only for seleced products such as
danish pastry,some spice cakes and certain other sweet goods,
gingerbread, and cookies.
No matter how we look at it ,and try to find a reality to your no
sugar coconut spice icing, we cannot think of something sensible
(but the sheer silliness) of the idea.

Maybe it is just idea or your way of spreading fat into your
sandwiches, but instead of plain or herbed butter or margarine.
YOu prefer that combination?
A extremely personal preferrence then.
Sorry NT, nothing personal...



Roy
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Old 25-05-2004, 09:47 PM
N. Thornton
 
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Default Icing secret ???

(Roy Basan) wrote in message . com...
(N. Thornton) wrote in message . com...
(Roy Basan) wrote in message . com...
(N. Thornton) wrote in message om...


Every one of your points you raised here was already answered in my
post to which you responded - except one. The answer to that one is
caprylic acid. You sound to me like a true fool. You dont seem to have
followed any of it, or applied even basic sense. I wish you luck with
your bakery, though it doesnt sounds like your range is anything to
write home about.


Really? why don't you try working in the same situation as me and see
if you can just apply easily what you think is good for you is good
for the rest of the people?.


The only and the obvious way forward is to make a bit at home and try
it. Or accept you havent tried it.


Meanwhile....
I have talked about your idea to other technicaly trained bakery
people ,They were laughing out loudly, and one of them and asked
me .
Is this NT guy really sober? Is he real a person or another entity
from elswehere.
From what planet did he came from?
Roy


Yeah, I'm not surprised. If they had sense they wouldnt have picked
catering, its hardly a good career choice.

Look at it this way Roy, if you dont try any new input you wont
discover anything new to you. I've used it and its yum. Your missed
chance to find out if its another string to your bow or not, doesnt
bother me.


Regards, NT


You really had loony tastes then.....

I do not know NT but in that discussion with the group over bottles
of beer.It was just a funny topic that brought so much laughter.
They tried to find out the possible outcome of such combination. It is
standard shortening based icing formulation to use sugar as the base
and the fat is just the secondary ingredient.
If you had to prepare the ordinary buttercream made with shortening
creaming it by itself without sugar does not led to a desirable
structure.
If you had to use a palette knife to spread that over a cake its just
akin spreading margarine to a piece of bread.
Or if you want it to be less light you just can take the shortening
from the tub and plasticize it a bit and spread and what will be the
outcome. It is slightly firmer but insipid and nothing but fat.
Or in your case, the coconut fat has a sharp melting point you just
have to melt carefully and pour it over the product being decorated.
That is enrobing like what you do with chocolate.One of the
apprentices I remember did even tried to use melted cocoa butter to
enrobed his cookies and the results was 'inedible' that many who
tasted the cookie puked . How much more with coconut fat which is
bland and even if laced with cardamom its still taste gross.
One of the mates asked. What does caprylic acid( he read your last
post)do to the functionality of coconut fat, nothing significant....it
may contribute to the very slight improvement of the coconut fat aroma
but that particular fat together with lauric acid is one cause of the
flavor deterioration and spoilage of coconut fat.

Now one of the guys argued; you do not have sugar then you are not
likely to smother the fat with heaps of powdered cardamom spice and
use the considerable of it that it will appear as speckled icing. It
will be grossly overpowering.
A fundammental role of such cake coating is that it will complement
the cake being decorated not surpass the taste of the cake.
Now you have a cake which as typical sweet taste. Then you coat that
with a bland icing ( no sugar).
He quipped further unless that customer is another a loony, or
another alien, maybe it would work.
That is why he remarked if the creator of this 'loony icing' is not
human beingg but some form an alien (and due to superior
intelligence was able to look like a man)who had been in this earth
for some time,but had wacky taste, who really love the pungent flavor
of cardamom which is not avaialable in their planetg. He further
said , do you mind if you ask him from what solar system is your
planet in this universe.
He just love UFO stories ,and if not for his wife who opposed, he
could have named his bakery ' The Hidden Planet Cake Shop'
But unfortunately even if he likes reading about aliens he
vehemently detest their tastes (just taking you as an example).

It really does not make sense...how its figured out.
In addition one of my mates countered. If that guy NT is really
serious about it how can he possibly eat a cake coated with fat and
cardamom spice.
He reasoned what is in cardamom spice that can mimic sugar, nothing.
It is just a fibrous matter a conglomerate of protein, starches
,fiber and slight fat and essential oil.
It is a fact in the bakery products that even cardamom addition in the
bakery products does not bode well if the customer is not used to it
in a certain bakery item.
It is added in measured amounts only for seleced products such as
danish pastry,some spice cakes and certain other sweet goods,
gingerbread, and cookies.
No matter how we look at it ,and try to find a reality to your no
sugar coconut spice icing, we cannot think of something sensible
(but the sheer silliness) of the idea.

Maybe it is just idea or your way of spreading fat into your
sandwiches, but instead of plain or herbed butter or margarine.
YOu prefer that combination?
A extremely personal preferrence then.
Sorry NT, nothing personal...



Roy



Roy this is getting boring. Your description is quite unrealistic. If
you differ, no prob.


Regards, NT


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