Baking (rec.food.baking) For bakers, would-be bakers, and fans and consumers of breads, pastries, cakes, pies, cookies, crackers, bagels, and other items commonly found in a bakery. Includes all methods of preparation, both conventional and not.

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  #31 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 21-10-2003, 03:16 AM
Julia Altshuler
 
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Default Dulce De Leche recipe and storage

Bob, there aren't many on this group I'd get up and walk into the
kitchen for, but you're one of them. Just for you, the brand is
Borden's Eagle Brand Sweetened Condensed Milk. The side of the can says
(in smaller letters than I'd remembered but still in all caps) "CAUTION:
NEVER HEAT UNOPENED CAN."

I can see that the business about making caramel in the can is
controversial. I've read the whole thread and concede that something
bad won't necessarily happen every time an unopened can is heated. But
wouldn't common sense lead one to believe that doing so is a bad idea
because the expanding liquids inside would have nowhere to expand?

I can further see that this discussion can turn into the endless other
food safety discussions. One person posts a warning that leaving
something out of the refrigerator is unsafe, and others post about the
countless times they've done it with no ill effect. The bottom line is
that we all decide what chances we're willing to take. For me, it is
easy enough to empty the contents of a can into another container before
heating.

--Lia


zxcvbob wrote:

One of the brands has even started printing warnings on the label.


Which brand is that?

Best regards,
Bob



  #32 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 21-10-2003, 03:19 AM
Julia Altshuler
 
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Default Dulce De Leche recipe and storage

I stand corrected and may try this. Will it work just as well if I
empty the can into a double boiler first?

--Lia


Brian Mailman wrote:
Julia Altshuler wrote:

...I don't know where people got the idea that heating condensed
milk in the can makes caramel,



Because it does. With proper precautions, it's spectularly easy.

B/


  #34 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 21-10-2003, 03:46 AM
zxcvbob
 
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Default Dulce De Leche recipe and storage

Julia Altshuler wrote:
Bob, there aren't many on this group I'd get up and walk into the
kitchen for, but you're one of them. Just for you, the brand is
Borden's Eagle Brand Sweetened Condensed Milk. The side of the can says
(in smaller letters than I'd remembered but still in all caps)
"CAUTION: NEVER HEAT UNOPENED CAN."


I just dug around in my pantry until I found the can of sweetened condensed
milk buried in the back. It's Wal-mart's store brand, Great Value or
something like that. Sure 'nuff it too says "CAUTION: NEVER HEAT UNOPENED
CAN." in little capital letters. The lawyers must be afraid that someone
will put the can *directly on the stove burner* and get hurt when the can
bursts. Perhaps the warning is on all cans now and I never noticed.

I can see that the business about making caramel in the can is
controversial. I've read the whole thread and concede that something
bad won't necessarily happen every time an unopened can is heated. But
wouldn't common sense lead one to believe that doing so is a bad idea
because the expanding liquids inside would have nowhere to expand?


Yes, common sense would lead you to believe that, but common sense is often
wrong. You're not heating the liquid enough for it to expand much, and it
can bulge the ends of the can slightly as it does expand. The worst case
scenario (assuming you heat the can in a water bath or a pressure cooker)
is a seam will open up and leak.

For me, it is easy enough to empty the contents of a can into another
container before heating.


You also might try punching a little hole in the top of the can with a can
opener or ice pick and simmering it (not totally submerged) in a covered
pan of water. It will cut down on all the stirring you will have to do in
an open pan or double boiler.

Best regards,
Bob

  #35 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 21-10-2003, 03:50 AM
Vox Humana
 
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Default Dulce De Leche recipe and storage


"Brian Mailman" wrote in message
...
Vox Humana wrote:

(snip)

Please tell us how it works out.


I'm sure that Roy Basan can explain it far better than I could. He is a
wizard when it comes to food science.




  #36 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 21-10-2003, 04:00 AM
Vox Humana
 
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Default Dulce De Leche recipe and storage


" BOB" wrote in message
.. .
I think it's a CYA just in case someone lets the pan boil dry.

Corporate
lawyers and all that.

BOB


Yes, just like the CYA label on superhero Halloween costumes that say
something like "wearing this garment doesn't enable you to fly."


You have *GOT* to be kidding me...no, in today's world, I'll believe it.


It's true and from a book called "101 Dumb Warning Labels."
http://stacks.msnbc.com/news/922010.asp
Here are a few more examples from the book:
- Steam iron packaging warns users not to "iron clothes on body"
- A glass cleaner admonishes not to "spray in eyes"
- A sunscreen that unfolds to cover the inside of a car windshield says not
to "drive with screen in place"
- A chainsaw user's manual commands: "Do not attempt to stop chain with
hands"


  #37 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 21-10-2003, 04:11 AM
BOB
 
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Default Dulce De Leche recipe and storage

Vox Humana typed:
" BOB" wrote...
I think it's a CYA just in case someone lets the pan boil dry. Corporate
lawyers and all that.

BOB

Yes, just like the CYA label on superhero Halloween costumes that say
something like "wearing this garment doesn't enable you to fly."


You have *GOT* to be kidding me...no, in today's world, I'll believe it.


It's true and from a book called "101 Dumb Warning Labels."
http://stacks.msnbc.com/news/922010.asp
Here are a few more examples from the book:
- Steam iron packaging warns users not to "iron clothes on body"
- A glass cleaner admonishes not to "spray in eyes"
- A sunscreen that unfolds to cover the inside of a car windshield says not
to "drive with screen in place"
- A chainsaw user's manual commands: "Do not attempt to stop chain with
hands"


That's why the world is getting overpopulated...no natural selection to weed
out the, umm,
those that aren't really meant to continue the intellegence gene pool.

BOB


  #38 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 21-10-2003, 05:34 AM
jacqui{JB}
 
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Default Dulce De Leche recipe and storage

"Bill" wrote in message
...

I have to say that boiling unopened cans is way
past my personal risk threshold. No criticism
of those who do it; just a different point of view.


This was a hot topic of discussion amongst a group
of avid cooks that included several engineers. The
consensus was that as long as it was allowed to cook
completely before opening the pressure cooker method
was completely safe and that if care is taken the water
bath method is safe.

The water bath method was deemed safe as long as the
cans were kept completely covered with water and the
cooking held to a simmer. The condensed milk inside the
cans has a higher boiling point than the water around them
and as such will never reach boiling point. As such the worst
that could happen is that a rare can might burst but would
never explode. I have done this several times and not seen
a hint of a problem. If you forget about it and the water boils
away that is a whole 'nother story.


Thanks for the info -- gotta love engineers (my Dad is a retired
engineer, my sister dated engineers all through college, I dated
engineers, I was even married to one -- for a while, anyway ).
While I will probably pass on making dulce de leche by boiling the can
(personal risk thresholds are just that: personal), it's nice to know
that it's not as risky as it feels to me.

-j


  #39 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 21-10-2003, 05:40 AM
William Graham
 
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Default Dulce De Leche recipe and storage


"Vox Humana" wrote in message
...

"William Graham" wrote in message
news:za%[email protected]

"Vox Humana" wrote in message
news

"Brian Mailman" wrote in message
...
Vox Humana wrote:

The easy way to make Dulce De Leche is to put an unopened can of
sweetened
condensed milk into a small pan. Add water to bring it to about

3/4
the
way
up the can.

That's an easy way to make an explosion.

Add water to completely cover the can AT ALL TIMES by at least 2".

Do
not answer the phone while this is going on. Do not answer the

door.
Do not pass go, do not collect $200.

Making this is safe, but it does need to be watched, do not allow

the
can to 'surface' in the water at any time.

B/

Why does covering the can make it safer?


I don't think covering the can is necessary....But you don't want to run

out
of water, so put the can in a large pot with lots of water, and watch it

so
you don't forget it....If you run out of water it will explode....As

long
as
there's plenty of water, the contents of the can won't boil because they

are
under slightly higher pressure, and the water in your pot won't go over
boiling at normal atmospheric pressure, so it's safe.....


The reason then is to have more water as insurance against boiling the pan
dry. That makes sense, but is a different matter than "the can will

explode
if it isn't fully submerged."


Yes....I don't know if the can sinks, or floats, so I don't know whether it
must be covered or not.....If it floats, then of course you don't have to
hold it down so that it will be covered....But in either case, just have
lots of water......


  #40 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 21-10-2003, 05:45 AM
Feuer
 
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Default Dulce De Leche recipe and storage



Vox Humana wrote:

I'm sure that Roy Basan can explain it far better than I could. He is a
wizard when it comes to food science.


s/food/industrial baking of yeasted breads.

David


  #41 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 21-10-2003, 06:46 AM
Bob Pastorio
 
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Default Dulce De Leche recipe and storage

Vox Humana wrote:

"Brian Mailman" wrote in message
...

*non food groups snecked*

Vox Humana wrote:

"Dimitri" wrote in message
y.com...

"Vox Humana" wrote in message
news
"Brian Mailman" wrote in message
...

Vox Humana wrote:


The easy way to make Dulce De Leche is to put an unopened can of

sweetened

condensed milk into a small pan. Add water to bring it to about


3/4

the

way

up the can.

That's an easy way to make an explosion.

Add water to completely cover the can AT ALL TIMES by at least 2".


...

Why does covering the can make it safer?

Water under normal pressure conditions will not exceed 212 degrees


(the

boiling point). The water prevents the contents from getting too hot


and

exploding the can.

Dimitri

I understand that part. I just question why Brian claims that the can


has

to be completely submerged.


So it doesn't explode because the contents overheat, just like Dimitri
explained. A can by its nature is a sealed container--i.e., it will
become a pressure cooker.

Surrounding it with water that _cannot_, under normal pressure, ever
exceed the boiling point at that pressure alleviates that concern.

Of course, there are some people who wish to demonstrate evolution in
action....



The procedure that I posted said to bring the water up 3/4 of the way on the
can. I don't see how leaving the TOP 1/4 of the can exposed to the
atmosphere which is going to be far cooler than 212F will cause the can to
overheat. I'm not saying that you are wrong, but I can't think of any
reason why you would be right. I can see how the contents of the can might
not cook evenly if isn't fully covered, but that is the opposite of having
the can explode.


I don't think it's about exploding. I think it's to make sure that the
whole can is cooked. Sweetened condensed milk is thick and would have
very little convection activity inside the can. That would mean that
the top of the can being cooler, it would cook differently than the rest.

In any event, I've done it dozens of times both stovetop and in a
crockpot. Worked fine every time.

Pastorio.

  #42 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 21-10-2003, 06:50 AM
Bob Pastorio
 
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Default Dulce De Leche recipe and storage

Julia Altshuler wrote:

Aurrggh! I don't know if this guy means to be funny or not, but NEVER
heat any unopened can! In fact, this one should go in the kitchen myths
thread. I don't know where people got the idea that heating condensed
milk in the can makes caramel, but it is a bad idea. One of the brands
has even started printing warnings on the label.


Julia, this is a standard method of making dulce de leche. It's been
around for almost as long as sweetened condensed milk has. People got
the idea that heating it in the can makes caramelized milk by doing it
and getting caramelized milk.

It works and it works well.

Pastorio



Vox Humana wrote:

The easy way to make Dulce De Leche is to put an unopened can of
sweetened
condensed milk into a small pan. Add water to bring it to about 3/4
the way
up the can. Bring to a boil and simmer for about an hour. Let cool
completely before opening. You can turn the can over after 30 minutes.
Store in a jar or plastic container. It should keep for a couple of
weeks
in the refrigerator, maybe more

A quicker method is to use a pressure cooker. Cook at pressure for 30
minutes -- 45 minutes if you want it darker.




  #43 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 21-10-2003, 02:15 PM
Blanche Nonken
 
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Default Dulce De Leche recipe and storage

"Vox Humana" wrote:


That all makes sense to me.


Or, if you're the patient sort, buy a few cans every year. About five
or ten years down the road, the first ones you bought should have
reached that state on their own.

(Just opened a 6 year old tin of SCM for my coffee - it was darkened and
thick. The longer it sits, the better. :-))
  #44 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 21-10-2003, 02:39 PM
Wayne Boatwright
 
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Default Dulce De Leche recipe and storage

wrote in
:

On Mon, 20 Oct 2003 22:09:39 -0400, " BOB"
wrote:


I just checked...it's "Magnolia" by Borden. I'll bet Eagle has the
warning "Caution-Never heat unopened can."


Their website says: "Notes: For safety reasons, heating the
unopened can (an old cooking method) is NOT recommended."

From:
http://www.eaglebrand.com/detail.asp?rid=825

They do give three alternate methods of making caramel (as
stated earlier in this thread) - stovetop, microwave, oven.

Pat


It's just another CYA effort.
  #45 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 21-10-2003, 03:01 PM
Vox Humana
 
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Default Dulce De Leche recipe and storage


"Blanche Nonken" wrote in message
...
"Vox Humana" wrote:


That all makes sense to me.


Or, if you're the patient sort, buy a few cans every year. About five
or ten years down the road, the first ones you bought should have
reached that state on their own.

(Just opened a 6 year old tin of SCM for my coffee - it was darkened and
thick. The longer it sits, the better. :-))


I had that happen to me once. I don't use much SCM and when I opened an old
can it was dark. I threw it away thinking it was spoiled!




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