Bread
 

I make good bread (tastes good anyway) BUT! I never get that pretty Brown
outside skin that I always see in the store bought or bakery bread. I asked
the lady at the bakery (kroger) and she said that they always bake the
bread at 400°... and that steam also did the trick. Said that is I got a
spray bottle and sprayed the bread just before I put the bread in the oven I
would get the same effect.
It doesn' seem to work!
Anybody know a secret?
jni

On Mon, 7 Feb 2005 18:33:07 -0700
"janie" > wrote:

> I make good bread (tastes good anyway) BUT! I never get that pretty
> Brown outside skin that I always see in the store bought or bakery bread.
> I asked
> the lady at the bakery (kroger) and she said that they always bake the
> bread at 400=B0... and that steam also did the trick. Said that is I got=
a
> spray bottle and sprayed the bread just before I put the bread in the
> oven I would get the same effect.
> It doesn' seem to work!
> Anybody know a secret?


You could try an egg wash :)

"janie" > wrote in message
...
> I make good bread (tastes good anyway) BUT! I never get that pretty Brown
> outside skin that I always see in the store bought or bakery bread. I
asked
> the lady at the bakery (kroger) and she said that they always bake the
> bread at 400°... and that steam also did the trick. Said that is I got a
> spray bottle and sprayed the bread just before I put the bread in the oven
I
> would get the same effect.
> It doesn' seem to work!
> Anybody know a secret?

I agree with Eric. Try a wash. Also, increasing the sugar in the dough
will increase browning as will baking it longer. You can use an egg wash
(beat and egg with a little water or milk) to start with. The steam will
make the crust chewy but it will not give you a brown color like the wash.

"janie" > wrote in message
...
> I make good bread (tastes good anyway) BUT! I never get that pretty Brown
> outside skin that I always see in the store bought or bakery bread. I
asked
> the lady at the bakery (kroger) and she said that they always bake the
> bread at 400°... and that steam also did the trick. Said that is I got a
> spray bottle and sprayed the bread just before I put the bread in the oven
I
> would get the same effect.
> It doesn' seem to work!
> Anybody know a secret?
> jni
>
>

Not sure what kind of bread you are baking, but if it is a "lean" bread",
e.g. baguette, I would suggest you raise the temp to 500F. That is the
normal temp for such breads (if you have a commercial oven, I would suggest
550F). After about 7 minutes, lower the temp to 450F.

"janie" > wrote in message
...
>I make good bread (tastes good anyway) BUT! I never get that pretty Brown
> outside skin that I always see in the store bought or bakery bread.


If you have an electric oven check to see if the top element hasn't burnt
out.

If that's not the problem, try putting your baked goods under the broiler
until the desired amount of browning occurs. I will sometimes do this with
bread, and with nearly every pizza and lasagne I make.

When my bread is within a degree or two of its desired internal temperture I
just turn on the broiler for another minute or two to increase the bread's
color.

"janie" > wrote in message
...
> I make good bread (tastes good anyway) BUT! I never get that pretty Brown
> outside skin that I always see in the store bought or bakery bread. I
asked
> the lady at the bakery (kroger) and she said that they always bake the
> bread at 400°... and that steam also did the trick. Said that is I got a
> spray bottle and sprayed the bread just before I put the bread in the oven
I
> would get the same effect.
> It doesn' seem to work!
> Anybody know a secret?
> jni
>

It is no different than anything else in baking. You need to get the
time/temperature right. Baking at a lower temperature for a longer time
will tend to give you lighter crust while baking at a longer time at a
higher temperature witll give you a darker crust, all other things being
equal (like the internal temp of the crumb.)

Spritzing the bread with water during early part of the bake shouldn't
affect color. It will, however, make the crust a little thinner. Take
care.

Fred
Foodie Forums
http://www.foodieforums.com

On Tue, 08 Feb 2005 02:01:14 GMT
"Vox Humana" > wrote:

>=20
> "janie" > wrote in message
> ...
> > I make good bread (tastes good anyway) BUT! I never get that pretty
> > Brown outside skin that I always see in the store bought or bakery
> > bread. I
> asked
> > the lady at the bakery (kroger) and she said that they always bake the
> > bread at 400=B0... and that steam also did the trick. Said that is I g=
ot
> > a spray bottle and sprayed the bread just before I put the bread in the
> > oven
> I
> > would get the same effect.
> > It doesn' seem to work!
> > Anybody know a secret?
>=20
> I agree with Eric. Try a wash. Also, increasing the sugar in the dough
> will increase browning as will baking it longer. You can use an egg wash
> (beat and egg with a little water or milk) to start with. The steam will
> make the crust chewy but it will not give you a brown color like the
> wash.


For whatever it's worth - you know, they keep telling us we're too
judgmental and not helpful enough - here's more helpful.=20

Other possible causes for the crust being blonder than you wanted it to
be:=20

Too low hydration.=20

For me, denser loaves always have a lighter crust. For various reasons
it's easy to use technically too much flour and still get an acceptable
loaf, but not everything will be the same. Too dense and you won't get as
much rise from steam, so the crust will be denser (more massive) and
require more BTUs to brown.=20

Unless you're measuring by weight, or have some sort of superpower or
high tech bionic technology, "1 cup" is rarely "1 cup". It's not your fault
that you probably get a slightly different hydration level every time.

Also, the visual cues that we are taught when people teach us to make
bread can be deceptive - it's easy to add flour too quickly and achieve the
"right" texture of dough in the bowl, when in actuality you've gone too
far. It took me a while to figure out that my dough should be sticker than
it had been, and that it would look just like dad's if i let it knead in
the mixer for another few minutes instead of adding that last cup of flour.

The oven at the bakery probably has a lower ceiling.

This will mean more reflected radiated heat hitting the top, and also
tighter convection currents that retain more heat. I don't have a
suggestion for how to fix this, just pointing it out.=20

But the egg wash is old-hat ace-in-the-hole stuff for really dark
browning.=20

Speaking of measuring by weight, does anybody want to make an offer on
my old digital scale? I just bought a nice Salter out of the clearance dump
at BB&B, 65% off or so.

Made by Cuisinart, my old scale was the lowest rated digital scale
reviewed by Consumer Reports. I paid 83 cents for it at a thrift store. I
think i got my money's worth.=20

The controls are attached to the part of the scale that the food goes
on, meaning that it's hard to hit the tare button without affecting the
weight reading. Also, while it supports metric measurement, it starts up
measuring ounces every time you turn it on, and since the buttons are on
opposing sides of the control panel, it's tricky to hit the metric button
without hitting the tare button at the same time, or the other way around
either.=20

Additionally, as a one-piece all-plastic design, you can't throw the
tray in the dishwasher to sterilize it after portioning out raw meat. You
have to think ahead and wrap it in plastic, or put it inside a 1 gallon
freezer bag.=20

You won't measure yeast with it, since it's sensor has a granularity of
about 5 grams, but it should be basically sufficient for water/flour ratios
and certainly up to the task of ensuring uniform dough lump size. It is
also quite small, taking up slightly less space in your cupboard than a 9"
pie pan.=20

Far as I can tell, someone wrote:
>Said that is I got a spray bottle and sprayed the bread just before I put the bread in the oven I
>would get the same effect.

I've done it for shine, but that would be about five minutes before
removing it from the oven.

At the start of the bake the dough is too cold tobe affected by the
water.

On Mon, 07 Feb 2005 18:33:07 -0700, janie wrote:

> Anybody know a secret?

For lean doughes w/no fat or added sugar.

Wash with
Use 1 whole egg for softer 1 egg white for harder crust
throw in a pinch of salt and two pinches of sugar.

Or use milk 'n' sugar for a soft crust.

Store bought bread usually has some sort of sugar/milk in the dough
which gives it color.

btw Lack of salt in the dough will cause pale bread.

On Sat, 26 Feb 2005 08:31:01 -0500, "michael"
> wrote:

>On Mon, 07 Feb 2005 18:33:07 -0700, janie wrote:
>
>> Anybody know a secret?
>
>For lean doughes w/no fat or added sugar.
>
>Wash with
>Use 1 whole egg for softer 1 egg white for harder crust
>throw in a pinch of salt and two pinches of sugar.
>
>Or use milk 'n' sugar for a soft crust.
>
>Store bought bread usually has some sort of sugar/milk in the dough
>which gives it color.
>
>btw Lack of salt in the dough will cause pale bread.

Howdy,

The OP has seen many good suggestions, but...

I would start with a good oven thermometer. Many ovens are
way out of calibration.

400F is low for baking a lean bread, but even with that
said, does the OP actually know the temperature of the oven?

All the best,

--
Kenneth

If you email... Please remove the "SPAMLESS."

janie wrote:
> I make good bread (tastes good anyway) BUT! I never get that pretty
Brown
> outside skin that I always see in the store bought or bakery bread.
I asked
> the lady at the bakery (kroger) and she said that they always bake
the
> bread at 400=B0... and that steam also did the trick. Said that is I
got a
> spray bottle and sprayed the bread just before I put the bread in the
oven I
> would get the same effect.
> It doesn' seem to work!
> Anybody know a secret?
> jni

You don't want to spray the actual loaf of bread with the water.
For best results the loaf itself should actually be dry before you put
it in the oven. When you put the bread in the oven take a spray bottle
and spray a generous amount of water in the interior of your oven to
generate a lot of steam. Just make sure you don't spray the bread
itself. Spray the wall of your oven. Close the oven door and keep it
shut for about 30 seconds. After the 30 seconds are up open the oven
door to release most of the steam and then close it again and let the
bread finish baking.
If you want to soften up the crust then let the bread cool and then
place it inside a sealed plastic bag. Within hours the bread will
soften up. If you want it to remain crusty then you should store it in
loosely folded paper bag.

On 27 Feb 2005 10:39:56 -0800, wrote:

>
>janie wrote:
>> I make good bread (tastes good anyway) BUT! I never get that pretty
>Brown
>> outside skin that I always see in the store bought or bakery bread.
>I asked
>> the lady at the bakery (kroger) and she said that they always bake
>the
>> bread at 400°... and that steam also did the trick. Said that is I
>got a
>> spray bottle and sprayed the bread just before I put the bread in the
>oven I
>> would get the same effect.
>> It doesn' seem to work!
>> Anybody know a secret?
>> jni
>
> You don't want to spray the actual loaf of bread with the water.
>For best results the loaf itself should actually be dry before you put
>it in the oven. When you put the bread in the oven take a spray bottle
>and spray a generous amount of water in the interior of your oven to
>generate a lot of steam. Just make sure you don't spray the bread
>itself. Spray the wall of your oven. Close the oven door and keep it
>shut for about 30 seconds. After the 30 seconds are up open the oven
>door to release most of the steam and then close it again and let the
>bread finish baking.
>If you want to soften up the crust then let the bread cool and then
>place it inside a sealed plastic bag. Within hours the bread will
>soften up. If you want it to remain crusty then you should store it in
>loosely folded paper bag.

Howdy,

With respect, spraying the oven does little for the bread...

In fact, it probably makes things worse. You want the heat
of the oven to go into the bread, but with the method you
suggest, much of that heat is wasted changing the water to
steam. That cools the oven dramatically. (Most home ovens
are little more than sheet metal boxes filled with heated
air. There is so little hot mass that the temperature drops
significantly just by introducing the cool dough.)

A vastly better approach is to have a boiler on the range
top with a tube to convey steam into the oven itself. That
is actually very easy to do, and is inexpensive too.

But, the unfortunate reality is that any effort to create
steam inside the oven is likely to be counterproductive.

All the best,
--
Kenneth

If you email... Please remove the "SPAMLESS."

> Howdy,
>
> With respect, spraying the oven does little for the bread...
>
> In fact, it probably makes things worse. You want the heat
> of the oven to go into the bread, but with the method you
> suggest, much of that heat is wasted changing the water to
> steam. That cools the oven dramatically.

That's the whole idea. I used to work for Kroger's too in the
bakery department as a baker. I worked there for over 10 years.
Steaming the bread did lower the temperature of the oven by as much as
25 degrees or more. However, the steam only remained in the oven for
about 25 seconds before the blower kicked on and pulled it all out.
Here is a website that explains how this happens.
http://www.exploratorium.edu/cooking/icooks/4-1-03.html
One time I had to use the deli's ovens to bake the bread because
the bakery oven was being fitted with a new ignitor. The deli ovens
were more like your home oven. The only difference was that they were
slightly larger, probably about 50% bigger. I put the trays of bread
in the oven, sprayed the inside of the oven real good with water and
then shut the oven door. After 30 seconds I opened the oven door to let
the excess steam out and then closed it again to let the oven come back
up to temperature and let the bread finish baking. The bread turned out
fine.

On 27 Feb 2005 21:40:21 -0800, wrote:

>
>> Howdy,
>>
>> With respect, spraying the oven does little for the bread...
>>
>> In fact, it probably makes things worse. You want the heat
>> of the oven to go into the bread, but with the method you
>> suggest, much of that heat is wasted changing the water to
>> steam. That cools the oven dramatically.
>
> That's the whole idea. I used to work for Kroger's too in the
>bakery department as a baker. I worked there for over 10 years.
>Steaming the bread did lower the temperature of the oven by as much as
>25 degrees or more. However, the steam only remained in the oven for
>about 25 seconds before the blower kicked on and pulled it all out.
>Here is a website that explains how this happens.
>http://www.exploratorium.edu/cooking/icooks/4-1-03.html
> One time I had to use the deli's ovens to bake the bread because
>the bakery oven was being fitted with a new ignitor. The deli ovens
>were more like your home oven. The only difference was that they were
>slightly larger, probably about 50% bigger. I put the trays of bread
>in the oven, sprayed the inside of the oven real good with water and
>then shut the oven door. After 30 seconds I opened the oven door to let
>the excess steam out and then closed it again to let the oven come back
>up to temperature and let the bread finish baking. The bread turned out
>fine.

Hello again,

With sincere respect to you, the good people of Kroger's,
and to the author of the piece at the link you provided, I
disagree (completely).

When you say that the "bread turned out fine" what are you
comparing it to? In an oven that has proper steam, there is
virtually no droop in temperature with the addition of steam
so the baker gets the benefits of the higher temperature and
the steam. (The reason that there is virtually no drop in
temperature is that even though the steam is only at 212F
very little water in the form of steam is actually added and
compared to the mass of the oven, that amount is truly
trivial.)

All the best,

--
Kenneth

If you email... Please remove the "SPAMLESS."

On Mon, 28 Feb 2005 07:10:46 -0500, Kenneth
> wrote:

>no droop in temperature

and no "drop" either... 'Sorry,

--
Kenneth

If you email... Please remove the "SPAMLESS."

Kenneth wrote:
> On 27 Feb 2005 21:40:21 -0800, wrote:
>
> >
>
>
> When you say that the "bread turned out fine" what are you
> comparing it to?

Okay, the bread turned out nice and golden and crusty on the outside
and fluffy and soft on the inside. Is that a good enough assessment?

On 28 Feb 2005 15:59:40 -0800, wrote:

>
>Kenneth wrote:
>> On 27 Feb 2005 21:40:21 -0800, wrote:
>>
>> >
>>
>>
>> When you say that the "bread turned out fine" what are you
>> comparing it to?
>
>Okay, the bread turned out nice and golden and crusty on the outside
>and fluffy and soft on the inside. Is that a good enough assessment?

If you are happy, I am happy.

All the best,

--
Kenneth

If you email... Please remove the "SPAMLESS."

"michael" > wrote in message >.. .
> On Mon, 07 Feb 2005 18:33:07 -0700, janie wrote:
>
> > Anybody know a secret?
>
> For lean doughes w/no fat or added sugar.
>
> Wash with
> Use 1 whole egg for softer 1 egg white for harder crust
> throw in a pinch of salt and two pinches of sugar.
>
> Or use milk 'n' sugar for a soft crust.
>
> Store bought bread usually has some sort of sugar/milk in the dough
> which gives it color.
>
> btw Lack of salt in the dough will cause pale bread.

I don't agree with this

On 9 Mar 2005 10:42:42 -0800
(margaret allan) wrote:


> > btw Lack of salt in the dough will cause pale bread.
>
> I don't agree with this


I sat and watched my younger sister experiment with salt levels and
browning in quickbreads, and there was a very clear correlation.


So, agree with it or not, I've seen the research first hand. There are
probably other factors in yeasted, loaf breads.