Baking (rec.food.baking) For bakers, would-be bakers, and fans and consumers of breads, pastries, cakes, pies, cookies, crackers, bagels, and other items commonly found in a bakery. Includes all methods of preparation, both conventional and not.

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Old 19-10-2003, 11:27 PM
drei
 
Posts: n/a
Default Italian 00 Flour

Hi,

I want to replicate the texture and consistency of real Neapolitan
pizza crust at home by using imported Italian 00 flour. I know that
King Arthur markets something that they say is a good imitation, but
I've read posts that suggest that it's made from a different kind of
wheat and am looking for the real thing.

Can anyone recommend a good brand of 00 and tell me how I can obtain
it in the US?

Thanks very much.

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Old 20-10-2003, 12:08 AM
H. W. Hans Kuntze
 
Posts: n/a
Default Italian 00 Flour

drei wrote:

Hi,

I want to replicate the texture and consistency of real Neapolitan
pizza crust at home by using imported Italian 00 flour. I know that
King Arthur markets something that they say is a good imitation, but
I've read posts that suggest that it's made from a different kind of
wheat and am looking for the real thing.

Can anyone recommend a good brand of 00 and tell me how I can obtain
it in the US?
=20


Tipo 00 flour does not tell you much, except mostly low gluten flour.

Every mill in Italy has several, including household use.

Mostly like our pastry flour.

Check the http://www.theartisan.net/ they should have a treatise on=20
flours, including italian.

--=20
Sincerly,

C=3D=A6-)=A7 H. W. Hans Kuntze, CMC, S.g.K. (_o_)
http://www.cmcchef.com ,
"Don't cry because it's over, Smile because it Happened"
_/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/=20

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Old 20-10-2003, 12:30 AM
graham
 
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Default Italian 00 Flour


"drei" wrote in message
om...
Hi,

I want to replicate the texture and consistency of real Neapolitan
pizza crust at home by using imported Italian 00 flour. I know that
King Arthur markets something that they say is a good imitation, but
I've read posts that suggest that it's made from a different kind of
wheat and am looking for the real thing.

Can anyone recommend a good brand of 00 and tell me how I can obtain
it in the US?

Thanks very much.


Have you tried an Italian deli/grocery? The one I use from time to time
has it.

Graham


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Old 21-10-2003, 03:19 AM
drei
 
Posts: n/a
Default Italian 00 Flour

"graham" wrote in message news:[email protected]
"drei" wrote in message
om...
Hi,

I want to replicate the texture and consistency of real Neapolitan
pizza crust at home by using imported Italian 00 flour. I know that
King Arthur markets something that they say is a good imitation, but
I've read posts that suggest that it's made from a different kind of
wheat and am looking for the real thing.

Can anyone recommend a good brand of 00 and tell me how I can obtain
it in the US?

Thanks very much.


Have you tried an Italian deli/grocery? The one I use from time to time
has it.


There are several Italian delis in my area, including an expensive
specialty foods shop, and none of them has it. I'm looking more for a
mail-order or Internet merchant that sells it and can ship it to me.

Incidentally, a thank you to everyone on this group for the pizza
stone recommendations. I've hesitated to post an update because I
haven't had the new stone for very long, but I got a 15x20 Fibrament
stone and it works fine. In fact, the bottom of the pizzas cook
better than the last stone.

Graham

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Old 22-10-2003, 02:10 PM
barry
 
Posts: n/a
Default Italian 00 Flour


"drei" wrote in message
m...
"graham" wrote in message

news:[email protected]
"drei" wrote in message
om...
Hi,

I want to replicate the texture and consistency of real Neapolitan
pizza crust at home by using imported Italian 00 flour. I know that
King Arthur markets something that they say is a good imitation, but
I've read posts that suggest that it's made from a different kind of
wheat and am looking for the real thing.

Can anyone recommend a good brand of 00 and tell me how I can obtain
it in the US?



In Jones's book, Pizza Napoletana, she recommends a mix of 5 parts all
purpose to one part cake/pastry flour as being very close to pizza crust in
Naples made from 00 flour.

On the other hand, a friend of mine owned a pizza shop for a couple of years
and made his dough from a mix of General Mills All Trumps and semolina, and
it was really, really good crust.

I've made both doughs and prefer the Jones recipe most of the time, but make
the other one every so often, when I have the time -- it takes two days.

I've heard that flour sold in the southern part of the US is blended to a
softer standard and milled finer than flours in other regions of the US,
because southern cooks make proportionately more pastries, biscuits, scones,
etc. I tried to get some southern flour -- White Lily, etc. -- on my last
trip to Florida, but didn't find any. I have a hunch that the southern
regional flour might be close to Italian 00.

Barry


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Old 22-10-2003, 05:51 PM
webpecker
 
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Default Italian 00 Flour

On Tue, 21 Oct 2003 23:15:12 GMT, "graham" wrote:

However the best flour one can get in Italy for making pizza is the
Manitoba flour (aka American flour)!


Hate to point this out but Manitoba is in Canada.


Yes, but the point is that the Manitoba flour marketed in Italy is
labelled "American Flour".

And isn't wrong because for the Europeans America is the entire
continent... :-)

cheers, webpecker


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Old 22-10-2003, 06:02 PM
Eric Jorgensen
 
Posts: n/a
Default Italian 00 Flour

On Wed, 22 Oct 2003 13:10:29 GMT
"barry" wrote:

I've heard that flour sold in the southern part of the US is blended
to a softer standard and milled finer than flours in other regions of
the US, because southern cooks make proportionately more pastries,
biscuits, scones, etc. I tried to get some southern flour -- White
Lily, etc. -- on my last trip to Florida, but didn't find any. I have
a hunch that the southern regional flour might be close to Italian 00.



I've heard that wheat grown in the southern part of the US is lower
protein because the soil and weather conditions produce a lower protein
flour.

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Old 22-10-2003, 06:50 PM
Vox Humana
 
Posts: n/a
Default Italian 00 Flour


"Eric Jorgensen" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 22 Oct 2003 13:10:29 GMT
"barry" wrote:

I've heard that flour sold in the southern part of the US is blended
to a softer standard and milled finer than flours in other regions of
the US, because southern cooks make proportionately more pastries,
biscuits, scones, etc. I tried to get some southern flour -- White
Lily, etc. -- on my last trip to Florida, but didn't find any. I have
a hunch that the southern regional flour might be close to Italian 00.



I've heard that wheat grown in the southern part of the US is lower
protein because the soil and weather conditions produce a lower protein
flour.


I think it is more like that kind of wheat that grows in the southern
climate is lower in gluten producing proteins.


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Old 22-10-2003, 07:18 PM
H. W. Hans Kuntze
 
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Default Italian 00 Flour

Vox Humana wrote:

"Eric Jorgensen" wrote in message
.. .
=20

On Wed, 22 Oct 2003 13:10:29 GMT
"barry" wrote:

've heard that flour sold in the southern part of the US is blended
to a softer standard and milled finer than flours in other regions[...=

]
=20

I've heard that wheat grown in the southern part of the US is lower
protein because the soil and weather conditions produce a lower protein=


flour.

I think it is more like that kind of wheat that grows in the southern
climate is lower in gluten producing proteins.

It's what is grown by the farmer, hard winter wheat needs freezing, hot=20
summers.
Won't grow well in modrate climates.
Of course, with biotech they changed all that, unfortunately or not.
Of course, the miller adjusts the protein/gluten in flour sold in a=20
region to what is baked in a region.
Traditionally the South has baked more shortbread types than=20
hearthbreads, preferring a softer flour.

What is unfortunate, they are now breeding strains with no flavor.
So, it is not only the protein content that is different, but also the=20
ash content and taste differ from european flour.
So much so, that some bakers import flour from Europe. Crazy.
Unfortunately, the wheat growers and millers will favor the wonderbread=20
crowd, that is their main business. Not the artisan bakers.
The farmer does not give a hoot if Guidos little sourdough bakery likes=20
his wheat, but that Interstate Bakeries accepts it.

=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D REZKONV-Rezept - RezkonvSuite v0.96f

Titel: About Flour 2
Kategorien: Info, Flour, Baking
Menge: 1 Jede menge

=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3 D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D QUELLE =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3 D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
General Mills
FRIT=A9BANDIT=AE
-Erfasst *RK* 07.10.02 von
-H.W. Hans Kuntze, CMC

When we talk flour we are talking wheat flour. Because wheat is the
most commonly distributed cereal grain in the world, a reference to
flour is generally a reference to wheat flour. And just as flour is
not "just flour", wheat is not "just wheat". So to better understand
flour, we first need to understand wheat.

Wheat Categories

Wheat can be classified by three major categories: growing season,
brand color and kernel hardness.

Growing Season-Winter vs. Spring

There are two distinct growing seasons for wheat. Winter wheat is
planted in the fall, lies dormant during the winter months and is
harvested during late spring to early summer. Winter wheat is grown
in regions where the winters are mild. Winter wheat flours range
between 10 and 12% protein and have medium gluten strength.

Spring wheat is planted in the spring and harvested during late
summer. The production of spring wheat is concentrated in the
northern Great Plain states where the winters are too cold for
winter wheat to survive. Spring wheat flours range between 12 and
14% protein and have high gluten strength.

Bran Color-Red vs. White

The next category is bran color. The bran is the outer protective
coating of the wheat kernel. Wheat can be classified as either red
or white.

Kernel Hardness-Hard vs. Soft

The final classification is kernel hardness. This wheat
characteristic has the greatest impact of all three on baking
qualities of the flour produced. Hard wheat flours have a medium to
high protein content and stronger gluten-forming proteins than sift
wheat. hard wheat flours are used in yeast-raised goods such as
breads, bagels, and pizza crusts. Soft wheat flours are low in
protein and therefore low in gluten strength. Soft wheat flours are
used for chemically leavened goods, such as cakes, cookies and
biscuits.

Wheat Classes and Their Uses

These three categories are used to distinguish between the major
wheat classifications. In the United States, their are six main
classes of wheat. The quality characteristics vary between the wheat
classes and determine the end-product usage. The six wheat classes
and their uses are as follows:

Hard Red Winter, Hard Red Spring, Hard White are the first three and
they are used for Breads and other yeast raised products. Soft Red
Winter, Soft White are used for Cakes, crackers, cookies and
pastries. Durum is used for Macaroni, noodles and other pastas.

Flour Analysis - Ash, an index of flour extraction

Ash is a measure of the mineral content of flour. The mineral
content of the wheat kernel is concentrated in the bran layer. The
objective of the miller is to separate the endosperm from the bran
as completely as possible. Ash is a measure of the degree of
endosperm separation from the bran during milling. The closer the
miller gets to the bran layer, the higher the ash level becomes.
Higher extraction will result in higher ash levels.

Protein - the framework of bread

Wheat flour is unique because it in the only cereal grain that
possesses gluten-forming proteins. Gluten and protein are closely
related, but not synonymous. When combined with water under mixing
stress, the proteins in the flour will form what is called gluten.
This gluten structure is responsible for providing extensibility,
elasticity and gas-retaining properties to yeast-leavened baked
goods. The quantity of the gluten is proportionate to the amount of
protein in the flour. The amount of gluten will increase as the
protein content increases.

Protein quality vs. quantity

To buy flour purely by a protein quantity will not necessarily
guarantee baking performance. Protein quality is a key component and
can be affected by many agronomic factors such as the amount of
rainfall, fertilizer usage, temperature stress, etc. A quality
miller is going to balance protein quantity with the appropriate
quality testing to prepare the best flours available for specific
baking needs.

Measuring Quality

Quality of flour is defined by its ability to consistently perform
in the production of a finished baked good. The ultimate quality
test is completed when the baker uses the flour. Bake test are
completed based on the application that best suits the particular
flour. Protein quality can be measured indirectly with the dough-
testing devices such as the Farinograph. The Farinograph measures
the resistance of a flour and water dough to mechanical mixing. This
resistance is recorded as a curve on a graph. The Farinograph curve
provides the miller with the useful information regarding the dough
strength, mixing tolerance, and absorption (water holding)
characteristics of a flour.
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D


--=20
Sincerly,

C=3D=A6-)=A7 H. W. Hans Kuntze, CMC, S.g.K. (_o_)
http://www.cmcchef.com ,
"Don't cry because it's over, Smile because it Happened"
_/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/=20

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Old 23-10-2003, 12:38 AM
barry
 
Posts: n/a
Default Italian 00 Flour

Don't know if it still happens, but when I lived in Mexico many years ago
and made the mistake of calling natives of the USA Americans, the Mexican I
was talking with just might look at me and ask Y quien estamos? And what
are we? (My Spanish is even worse today then it was then, but you get the
idea.)

The proper term for USA citizens, at least there, at that time, was Norte
Americanos.

Barry

"H. W. Hans Kuntze" wrote in message
...
graham wrote:

"webpecker" wrote in message
.. .


On 19 Oct 2003 15:27:35 -0700, (drei) wrote:


However the best flour one can get in Italy for making pizza is the
Manitoba flour (aka American flour)!



Hate to point this out but Manitoba is in Canada.

Hi Graham.

Does that not qualify as being in "America"?

After all, every stretch of land from Alaska to Chile would be in America,
even the USofA.

How did you get to exclude Canada from the american continent?

That would make OHS very happy, one less porous border to watch.

--
Sincerly,

C=-) H. W. Hans Kuntze, CMC, S.g.K. (_o_)
http://www.cmcchef.com ,
"Don't cry because it's over, Smile because it Happened"
_/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/




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