I've recently started venturing into yeast breads after having become
fairly competent with cakes, cookins, and quickbreads. I'm having
trouble getting a secondary rise (the initial rise has been
gangbusters every time so far). I'm using bread flour and
Fleichmann's dry yeast. I don't know if I'm kneading too long (about
10 min), not long enough, whether I should proof the yeast, use AP
flour, or what. The end results taste just great, but have a texture
more like quickbread, as opposed to that nice cellular, chewy
structure I'm after. Any advice is appreciated.

Rick

Have you considered purchasing a Bread Machine?
Lots of used ones around, but do make sure you get the manual and recipe
book that accompanies.

Lots of fun and success for your effort. Caution....waistline may expand if
not careful. :-)
MAC



"Rick" > wrote in message
om...
> I've recently started venturing into yeast breads after having become
> fairly competent with cakes, cookins, and quickbreads. I'm having
> trouble getting a secondary rise (the initial rise has been
> gangbusters every time so far). I'm using bread flour and
> Fleichmann's dry yeast. I don't know if I'm kneading too long (about
> 10 min), not long enough, whether I should proof the yeast, use AP
> flour, or what. The end results taste just great, but have a texture
> more like quickbread, as opposed to that nice cellular, chewy
> structure I'm after. Any advice is appreciated.
>
> Rick

"Rick" > wrote in message
om...
> I've recently started venturing into yeast breads after having become
> fairly competent with cakes, cookins, and quickbreads. I'm having
> trouble getting a secondary rise (the initial rise has been
> gangbusters every time so far). I'm using bread flour and
> Fleichmann's dry yeast. I don't know if I'm kneading too long (about
> 10 min), not long enough, whether I should proof the yeast, use AP
> flour, or what. The end results taste just great, but have a texture
> more like quickbread, as opposed to that nice cellular, chewy
> structure I'm after. Any advice is appreciated.
>
> Rick

If you get a good first rise, then you should eventually get a good second
rise. Make sure you deflate the dough, let it rest a few minutes, knead it
a few times, and then form into the desired shape. Let the dough rise again
until double. If the texture is not good, you may not be letting it rise
enough. You will also get a better crumb and a chewy crust with a long,
slow rise. Here is a link to great information on bread making:
http://home.earthlink.net/~ggda/index.html

Hi Rick,

YES, you should always proof your yeast. However,if you have a good
first rise yeast is not your problem. It may well be the flour. I've
never used "bread flour" but all purpose might give you the courseness
you desire. Similar to cake flour vs all purpose: cake flour will give
a fine, smooth texture wonderful for pound cakes. Sounds like
everything else you're doing is fine.

Remember a couple things - too little flour will cause a lackluster
second rise (dough will have a tendency to fall over the sides of the
pan), and too much flour will make the bread hard and tough. What's
right? Mix the flour into the liquid with greased hands, add one cup
of flour at a time and when the dough no longer sticks to your fingers
you have the right consistency.

Keep trying.

Blondie






(Rick) wrote in message . com>...
> I've recently started venturing into yeast breads after having become
> fairly competent with cakes, cookins, and quickbreads. I'm having
> trouble getting a secondary rise (the initial rise has been
> gangbusters every time so far). I'm using bread flour and
> Fleichmann's dry yeast. I don't know if I'm kneading too long (about
> 10 min), not long enough, whether I should proof the yeast, use AP
> flour, or what. The end results taste just great, but have a texture
> more like quickbread, as opposed to that nice cellular, chewy
> structure I'm after. Any advice is appreciated.
>
> Rick

"Rick" > wrote in message
om...
> I've recently started venturing into yeast breads after having become
> fairly competent with cakes, cookins, and quickbreads. I'm having
> trouble getting a secondary rise (the initial rise has been
> gangbusters every time so far). I'm using bread flour and
> Fleichmann's dry yeast. I don't know if I'm kneading too long (about
> 10 min), not long enough, whether I should proof the yeast, use AP
> flour, or what. The end results taste just great, but have a texture
> more like quickbread, as opposed to that nice cellular, chewy
> structure I'm after. Any advice is appreciated.
>
> Rick

Come on over to alt.bread.recipes and ask your question. Lots of
experienced bread bakers there. Meanwhile, check out our FAQ that is under
construction at http://planeguy.mine.nu/bread/faq_abr.php

If your finished bread has the texture of quickbread you could be adding too
much flour, not kneading enough, not proofing long enough.
Janet

Hi: I use dry yeast that I buy in l pound packages from Walmart (Sams).
One tb. for 6 cups of flour, first rise to triple the initial volume,
(after neading with the Kitchen Aid mixer, then the 2nd rise (using
perforated bread pans for 1 hour. Works every time. I suspect your yeast.

Joe
"Rick" > wrote in message
om...
> I've recently started venturing into yeast breads after having become
> fairly competent with cakes, cookins, and quickbreads. I'm having
> trouble getting a secondary rise (the initial rise has been
> gangbusters every time so far). I'm using bread flour and
> Fleichmann's dry yeast. I don't know if I'm kneading too long (about
> 10 min), not long enough, whether I should proof the yeast, use AP
> flour, or what. The end results taste just great, but have a texture
> more like quickbread, as opposed to that nice cellular, chewy
> structure I'm after. Any advice is appreciated.
>
> Rick

Hi: I use dry yeast that I buy in l pound packages from Walmart (Sams).
One tb. for 6 cups of flour, first rise to triple the initial volume,
(after neading with the Kitchen Aid mixer, then the 2nd rise (using
perforated bread pans for 1 hour. Works every time. I suspect your yeast.

Joe
"Rick" > wrote in message
om...
> I've recently started venturing into yeast breads after having become
> fairly competent with cakes, cookins, and quickbreads. I'm having
> trouble getting a secondary rise (the initial rise has been
> gangbusters every time so far). I'm using bread flour and
> Fleichmann's dry yeast. I don't know if I'm kneading too long (about
> 10 min), not long enough, whether I should proof the yeast, use AP
> flour, or what. The end results taste just great, but have a texture
> more like quickbread, as opposed to that nice cellular, chewy
> structure I'm after. Any advice is appreciated.
>
> Rick

Hi: I use dry yeast that I buy in l pound packages from Walmart (Sams).
One tb. for 6 cups of flour, first rise to triple the initial volume,
(after neading with the Kitchen Aid mixer, then the 2nd rise (using
perforated bread pans for 1 hour. Works every time. I suspect your yeast.

Joe
"Rick" > wrote in message
om...
> I've recently started venturing into yeast breads after having become
> fairly competent with cakes, cookins, and quickbreads. I'm having
> trouble getting a secondary rise (the initial rise has been
> gangbusters every time so far). I'm using bread flour and
> Fleichmann's dry yeast. I don't know if I'm kneading too long (about
> 10 min), not long enough, whether I should proof the yeast, use AP
> flour, or what. The end results taste just great, but have a texture
> more like quickbread, as opposed to that nice cellular, chewy
> structure I'm after. Any advice is appreciated.
>
> Rick

Rick wrote:

> I've recently started venturing into yeast breads after having become
> fairly competent with cakes, cookins, and quickbreads. I'm having
> trouble getting a secondary rise (the initial rise has been
> gangbusters every time so far).

Rick,

Everyone has posted good information for you. You may also wish to try
doing a "sponge" first on the bread. Basically, take all the liquid in
your recipe, 1/2 the flour and 1/2 the yeast and let it "proof" for 2-3
hours or until almost double (depending on the type of bread you are
making this time will vary. Wheat based flours will proof faster than
rye/other grain flours). Then follow the recipe from there as if you
were at the "1st rise" step. After I started doing this step (had an
old time artesian breadmaker show me this little gem) I have never had
to worry about a 2nd rising and I haven't used my bread machine since!!!
(except to make dough occassionally). It is a bit more time consuming
but the rise of my yeast breads is incredible and the texture heavenly.

Have fun!!!

mary

I have a bread machine, but I'm looking for sizes and shapes that it
cannot provide. Fantastic for a quick, "set it and forget it" loaf
though.

"M" > wrote in message >...
> Have you considered purchasing a Bread Machine?
> Lots of used ones around, but do make sure you get the manual and recipe
> book that accompanies.
>
> Lots of fun and success for your effort. Caution....waistline may expand if
> not careful. :-)
> MAC

I have a bread machine, but I'm looking for sizes and shapes that it
cannot provide. Fantastic for a quick, "set it and forget it" loaf
though.

"M" > wrote in message >...
> Have you considered purchasing a Bread Machine?
> Lots of used ones around, but do make sure you get the manual and recipe
> book that accompanies.
>
> Lots of fun and success for your effort. Caution....waistline may expand if
> not careful. :-)
> MAC

I have a bread machine, but I'm looking for sizes and shapes that it
cannot provide. Fantastic for a quick, "set it and forget it" loaf
though.

"M" > wrote in message >...
> Have you considered purchasing a Bread Machine?
> Lots of used ones around, but do make sure you get the manual and recipe
> book that accompanies.
>
> Lots of fun and success for your effort. Caution....waistline may expand if
> not careful. :-)
> MAC

Many remove the bread from the bread machine after making the dough, then
proceed to make the bread into any shape they wish. They use the recipes for
bread machine bread; usually quite a few in the book that accompanies the
machine.
M.

"Rick" > wrote in message
om...
> I have a bread machine, but I'm looking for sizes and shapes that it
> cannot provide. Fantastic for a quick, "set it and forget it" loaf
> though.
>
> "M" > wrote in message
>...
> > Have you considered purchasing a Bread Machine?
> > Lots of used ones around, but do make sure you get the manual and recipe
> > book that accompanies.
> >
> > Lots of fun and success for your effort. Caution....waistline may expand
if
> > not careful. :-)
> > MAC

Many remove the bread from the bread machine after making the dough, then
proceed to make the bread into any shape they wish. They use the recipes for
bread machine bread; usually quite a few in the book that accompanies the
machine.
M.

"Rick" > wrote in message
om...
> I have a bread machine, but I'm looking for sizes and shapes that it
> cannot provide. Fantastic for a quick, "set it and forget it" loaf
> though.
>
> "M" > wrote in message
>...
> > Have you considered purchasing a Bread Machine?
> > Lots of used ones around, but do make sure you get the manual and recipe
> > book that accompanies.
> >
> > Lots of fun and success for your effort. Caution....waistline may expand
if
> > not careful. :-)
> > MAC

"M" > wrote in message
...
> Many remove the bread from the bread machine after making the dough, then
> proceed to make the bread into any shape they wish.

I would just put the bread machine money towards a food processor and get a
decent bread cookbook.

"M" > wrote in message
...
> Many remove the bread from the bread machine after making the dough, then
> proceed to make the bread into any shape they wish.

I would just put the bread machine money towards a food processor and get a
decent bread cookbook.

I've thought about a food processor, but nixed the idea... I couldn't think
of a single reason to buy one other than my curiosity...

I have a KA mixer and a good set of knives....
My bread machine is one of my favorite appliances!

Rina

"Vox Humana" > wrote in message
...
, then
>> proceed to make the bread into any shape they wish.
>
> I would just put the bread machine money towards a food processor and get
> a
> decent bread cookbook.
>
>

"Rina" > wrote in message
news:sTlrd.699018$8_6.447626@attbi_s04...
> I've thought about a food processor, but nixed the idea... I couldn't
think
> of a single reason to buy one other than my curiosity...
>
> I have a KA mixer and a good set of knives....
> My bread machine is one of my favorite appliances!
>
> Rina
>

Your KA mixer and knives are about all you really need. Since the OP asked
about getting a mixer or a bread machine, I recommended the mixer or a food
processor. Both are much more versatile than the bread machine. Of course
if you already own a bread machine, it is a moot point. I just don't see
any advantage in using the machine to make dough, and then removing it and
completing the process by hand. Bread machines are fine for people who want
to dump and run. It isn't baking, in my opinion just as I don't think that
using cake mixes are baking. I know that stance upsets people, but alas,
that is how I feel. If you don't own any appliances and want to make bread,
then the bread machine would be the last device that I would recommend
buying. I think that if you really want to learn how to bake, you aren't
going to progress much with a bread machine. Does that make you a bad
person or immoral - absolute not! It's just that you won't learn to drive
by taking the bus even though it gets you to your destination the same as a
car. Bread machines are probably a godsend for people with disabilities.

As for the food processor, I use mine for small batches of yeast dough and
pie pastry, grinding nuts, making bread crumbs, grinding meat, chopping
large amounts of onions, shredding cheese, making jullian cut vegetables,
preparing mayonnaise and other emulsions, chopping chocolate, making
ganache, preparing pasta dough, and many other tasks. You can do all that
with a knife or your hands, as I do for small quantities, but it would take
forever to make salmon mousse with a knife. With the bread machine, you can
only make bread (OK, I know that some machines have a jam setting). I leave
my food processor and KA mixer on the counter, otherwise I wouldn't use
them.

"Rina" > wrote in message
news:sTlrd.699018$8_6.447626@attbi_s04...
> I've thought about a food processor, but nixed the idea... I couldn't
think
> of a single reason to buy one other than my curiosity...
>
> I have a KA mixer and a good set of knives....
> My bread machine is one of my favorite appliances!
>
> Rina
>

Your KA mixer and knives are about all you really need. Since the OP asked
about getting a mixer or a bread machine, I recommended the mixer or a food
processor. Both are much more versatile than the bread machine. Of course
if you already own a bread machine, it is a moot point. I just don't see
any advantage in using the machine to make dough, and then removing it and
completing the process by hand. Bread machines are fine for people who want
to dump and run. It isn't baking, in my opinion just as I don't think that
using cake mixes are baking. I know that stance upsets people, but alas,
that is how I feel. If you don't own any appliances and want to make bread,
then the bread machine would be the last device that I would recommend
buying. I think that if you really want to learn how to bake, you aren't
going to progress much with a bread machine. Does that make you a bad
person or immoral - absolute not! It's just that you won't learn to drive
by taking the bus even though it gets you to your destination the same as a
car. Bread machines are probably a godsend for people with disabilities.

As for the food processor, I use mine for small batches of yeast dough and
pie pastry, grinding nuts, making bread crumbs, grinding meat, chopping
large amounts of onions, shredding cheese, making jullian cut vegetables,
preparing mayonnaise and other emulsions, chopping chocolate, making
ganache, preparing pasta dough, and many other tasks. You can do all that
with a knife or your hands, as I do for small quantities, but it would take
forever to make salmon mousse with a knife. With the bread machine, you can
only make bread (OK, I know that some machines have a jam setting). I leave
my food processor and KA mixer on the counter, otherwise I wouldn't use
them.

I kind of agree with you... all valid points. There is a place and time for
everything, even cake mixes... I'm sure they are a godsend to working Moms.
I'm pretty sure that there are people that would like fresh warm bread with
a meal but wouldn't consider making a cake from scratch and a KA mixer would
be as useless to them as a food processor seems to be for me... (I'd
probably buy one if I could find a place to put it) <grin>
I bought my daughter in law a Kitchen aid mixer, for her wedding shower..
they have been married 2 1/2 years and I don't think the mixer has made it
out of the box yet... but she definitely expressed an interest in my bread
machine when she had my rolls at Easter. I'm hoping that I can gradually
get her to cook...

Using a bread machine to make dough is easier for me because I don't have to
stand by the mixer and watch it, once I've loaded the ingredients and
checked that my dough consistency is right, I can do something else... for
the next hour and a half.

I do use it to bake bread in it once in a while, especially at Christmas
time when I'm pressed for time. but that's just bread... it's nothing
special. Coming home to a hot bowl of homemade soup and a slice of hot
bread sure beats grabbing a bite in a food court at the mall!

You make that food processor sound so interesting, I suppose I could get rid
of my blender that I only use for making smooth sauces and an occasional
chocolate milk shake... or maybe the cookie jar that never is used for
cookies... hmm the wheels are turning.

We eat bread in some form every day, so my machine is used several times a
week...


Rina









"Vox Humana" > wrote in message news:eJsrd.25429

> I just don't see
> any advantage in using the machine to make dough, and then removing it and
> completing the process by hand.

>
> As for the food processor, I use mine for small batches of yeast dough and
> pie pastry, grinding nuts, making bread crumbs, grinding meat, chopping
> large amounts of onions, shredding cheese, making jullian cut vegetables,
> preparing mayonnaise and other emulsions, chopping chocolate, making
> ganache, preparing pasta dough, and many other tasks.