Baking (rec.food.baking) For bakers, would-be bakers, and fans and consumers of breads, pastries, cakes, pies, cookies, crackers, bagels, and other items commonly found in a bakery. Includes all methods of preparation, both conventional and not.

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Old 06-12-2003, 05:37 AM
alia
 
Posts: n/a
Default newbie, altitude cooking

hello my name is alia and i am new here

i love to cook and recently moved to the sangre de christo mountains
in new mexico. i never baked much before for lack of space, but here
i find i am cooking a lot more, and baking as well.
however, i am at around 7000 feet here, and my cakes are Falling In!
does anyone have any suggestions as to how to compensate for this? i
understand there is a way, but i dont know how to do it.

thanks!
alia

  #2 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 06-12-2003, 07:13 AM
H. W. Hans Kuntze
 
Posts: n/a
Default newbie, altitude cooking

alia wrote:

hello my name is alia and i am new here=20

Hi Alia.

i love to cook and recently moved to the sangre de christo mountains
in new mexico. i never baked much before for lack of space, but here
i find i am cooking a lot more, and baking as well.
however, i am at around 7000 feet here, and my cakes are Falling In!=20
does anyone have any suggestions as to how to compensate for this? i
understand there is a way, but i dont know how to do it.

Wow, I guess I'm lucky here, only2174 feet above sea level, no=20
adjustments needed. But water boils at temps below 212 F. :-)

Have fun cooking and baking above the clouds.
You might need to get a pressure cooker for the frijoles, otherwise they =

might never get tender.

=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D Titelliste (2 Rezepte) =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D

High Altitude Baking
High Altitude Cake Baking

=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D REZKONV-Rezept - RezkonvSuite v0.96f

Titel: High Altitude Baking
Kategorien: Info
Menge: 1 Jede Menge

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Various Internet Sources
Postings in RFB
-Erfasst *RK* 12.12.02 von
-H.W. Hans Kuntze, CMC

High Altitude Baking

The following is only intended as a guideline. Please consult your
local county Extension Home Economist. She is aware of conditions
and adjustments that need to be made for recipes in your particular
location. Our Hershey Foods recipes have not been tested at high
altitudes.

HIGH ALTITUDE COOKING

Cooking at high altitudes requires chiefly two basic adjustments:

1. An increase in time for boiled foods.

2. A change in the proportions of ingredients used in leavened foods
such as cakes and yeast breads. In some instances, a change in
baking temperatures may also be necessary.

Changes in altitude do not affect oven temperatures; however, since
atmospheric pressure decreases at the higher altitudes, leavened
batters and doughs rise faster than they do at sea level. At
elevations over 3500 feet, the oven temperature for batters and
doughs should be 25 degrees Fahrenheit higher than the temperature
used at sea level. Proofing time for yeast breads should be reduced.

CAKE BAKING AT HIGH ALTITUDES

Most cake recipes for sea level need no modification up to the
altitude of 3,000 feet. Above that, it is often necessary to adjust
recipes slightly. Usually, a decrease in leavening or sugar (or
both) and an increase in liquid are needed.

Each or all of these adjustments may be required for every recipe is
different in its balance of ingredients. Only repeated experiments
with each recipe can give the most successful proportions to use.

The table below is intended as a helpful guide and may be all that
is needed to adjust a sea level recipe to a higher altitude. Where
two amounts appear in the table, the smaller adjustment should be
tried first. Then if the cake still needs improvement, the larger
adjustment can be used the next time.

GUIDE FOR CAKE BAKING AT HIGH ALTITUDES

Adjustment for 3000 feet:

-Reduce baking powder: for each tsp., decrease 1/8 tsp.

-Reduce sugar: for each cup, decrease 0 to 1 Tbsp.

-Increase liquid: for each cup, add 1 to 2 Tbsp.

Adjustment for 5000 feet:

-Reduce baking powder: for each tsp., decrease 1/8 to 1/4 tsp.

-Reduce sugar: for each cup, decrease 0 to 2 Tbsp.

-Increase liquid: for each cup, add 2 to 4 Tbsp.

Adjustment for 7000 feet:

-Reduce baking powder: for each tsp., decrease 1/4 tsp.

-Reduce sugar: for each cup, decrease 1 to 3 Tbsp.

-Increase liquid: for each cup, add 3 to 4 Tbsp.

There are no exact rules for adjusting yeast breads at high
altitudes. But because altitude affects the ingredients and the
entire breadmaking process, we offer these general guidelines for
baking above 3,000 feet.

Because atmospheric pressure is lower and leavening gases expand
more quickly, yeast dough rises 25 to 50 percent faster at high
altitudes. Begin checking the dough halfway through the rising time
listed in the recipe. Continue to check frequently.

Flour tends to be drier and absorbs more liquid at high altitudes.
Therefore, it is very important to store flour in an airtight
container.

When mixing the dough, you may need less flour than called for in
the recipe. To compensate, add flour slowly and work in only enough
to make the dough easy to handle. Because recipes call for varying
amounts of flour, there is no standard measurement for reducing
flour.

If dough is slightly sticky during kneading, use greased instead of
floured hands. This way, you won't knead in too much flour.

Dough dries out faster at high altitudes. To prevent drying, grease
or lightly oil the exposed part of dough (whether in a bowl, on a
board, or in a baking pan) and cover with greased plastic wrap
instead of a towel.

Baking temperature and time should not change at high altitudes, but
check for browning at the shorter time listed and use traditional
doneness tests.

Just as dough dries out faster at high altitudes, so does the
finished product. Store cooled bread in airtight plastic wrap, bags,
or containers.

Should recipes be adjusted for high altitudes? Yes. But there are no
exact rules for adjusting yeast breads at high altitudes. Altitude
affects the ingredients and the entire breadmaking process. We
suggest these general guidelines for baking above 3, 000 feet.

* =B7 Because atmospheric pressure is lower and leavening gases expand
more quickly, yeast dough rises 25 to 50 percent faster at high
altitudes. Begin checking the dough halfway through the rising time
listed in the recipe. Continue to check frequently.
* =B7 Flour tends to be drier and absorbs more liquid at high
altitudes. Therefore, it is very important to store flour in an
airtight container.
* =B7 When mixing the dough, you may need less flour than called for
in the recipe. To compensate, add flour slowly and work in only
enough to make the dough easy to handle. Because recipes call for
varying amounts of flour, there is no standard measurement for
reducing flour.
* =B7 If dough is slightly sticky during kneading, use greased instead
of floured hands. This way, you won't knead in too much flour.
* =B7 Dough dries out faster at high altitudes. To prevent drying,
grease or lightly oil the exposed part of dough ( whether in a bowl,
on a board, or in a baking pan) and cover with greased plastic wrap
instead of a towel.
* =B7 Baking temperature and time should not change at high altitudes,
but check for browning at the shorter time listed and use
traditional doneness tests.
* =B7 Just as dough dries out faster at high altitudes, so does the
finished product. Store cooled bread in airtight plastic wrap, bags,
or containers.
* =B7 If you are using a bread machine at high altitude, refer to the
manufacturer's instruction book. Since flour may dry out faster at
high altitudes, you may need to adjust the ratio of liquid to flour.
Experiment by reducing the amount of yeast, flour or sugar (yeast
feeds on sugar), and/or adding liquid or a little gluten. Or try a
shorter baking cycle, such as rapid bake, if available. http://www.
buffzone.com/food/nibbles/a149315a.html

Figuring out high altitude baking

Making adjustments: A longtime Nibbles reader wrote recently with a
common question: "I was quite taken by the lemon poppy seed cake in
Marion Cunningham's column. However, it occurs to me that this
recipe might not be adjusted for our altitude and this might also be
said of other recipes which come from sources other than Boulder
which are published in the Camera. Is it possible to advise readers
whether a recipe has been altitude adjusted?"

Dear reader :You are correct that the recipe is not altitude
adjusted, but I think it'll work pretty well anyway. Unless a Food
section recipe notes specifically that it has been adjusted for
altitude, then it probably hasn't been. We don't have the means to
test the recipes we publish here, but we do our best to assure that
they will work in readers' kitchens.

In my experience, cooks worry far more about the elevation than they
need to, but there are a few time-tested tips that can make scratch
baking a little more successful at Boulder County's morethan-
milehigh altitude.

Reader Nina Soltwedel writes:

"When we moved here in 1974, the Public Service Company was still
actively working with new arrivals to ensure that we could cook well
for our families. The woman who headed up that endeavor gave me two
helpful tips that I've followed to this day when making cakes or
cookies:

1. Remove 3 tablespoons of sugar for every cup called for in a
recipe.

2. When making cookies, never use all butter called for; substitute
vegetable shortening for half of the butter."

The Colorado State University Cooperative Extension also has some
recommendations:

For cakes, reduce baking powder 1/8 to =BC teaspoon for each teaspoon
the recipe calls for. Reduce sugar 1 to 2 tablespoons for each cup
used. Increase liquid 2 to 4 tablespoons for each cup called for.

To adjust bread machine recipes, remove =BC to =BD teaspoon yeast out of
each package of yeast called for. Increase salt by =BD teaspoon. Add 1
to 2 tablespoons of additional liquid per cup of flour. Use a longer
mixing cycle. Add 1=BD teaspoons gluten.

For more information about adjusting recipes, call the CSU Extension
in Longmont: (303) 444-1121.

=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D

=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D REZKONV-Rezept - RezkonvSuite v0.96f

Titel: High Altitude Cake Baking
Kategorien: Info, Baking
Menge: 1 Rezept

=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3 D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
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FRIT=A9BANDIT=AE
-Erfasst *RK* 08.10.02 von
-H.W. Hans Kuntze, CMC

There are no exact rules for adjusting yeast breads at high
altitudes. But because altitude affects the ingredients and the
entire breadmaking process, we offer these general guidelines for
baking above 3,000 feet.

Because atmospheric pressure is lower and leavening gases expand
more quickly, yeast dough rises 25 to 50 percent faster at high
altitudes. Begin checking the dough halfway through the rising time
listed in the recipe. Continue to check frequently.

Flour tends to be drier and absorbs more liquid at high altitudes.
Therefore, it is very important to store flour in an airtight
container.

When mixing the dough, you may need less flour than called for in
the recipe. To compensate, add flour slowly and work in only enough
to make the dough easy to handle. Because recipes call for varying
amounts of flour, there is no standard measurement for reducing
flour.

If dough is slightly sticky during kneading, use greased instead of
floured hands. This way, you won't knead in too much flour.

Dough dries out faster at high altitudes. To prevent drying, grease
or lightly oil the exposed part of dough (whether in a bowl, on a
board, or in a baking pan) and cover with greased plastic wrap
instead of a towel.

Baking temperature and time should not change at high altitudes, but
check for browning at the shorter time listed and use traditional
doneness tests.

Just as dough dries out faster at high altitudes, so d=F6s the
finished product. Store cooled bread in airtight plastic wrap, bags,
or containers.

If you are using a bread machine at high altitude, refer to the
manufacturer's instruction book. Since flour may dry out faster at
high altitudes, you may need to adjust the ratio of liquid to flour.
Experiment by reducing the amount of yeast, flour or sugar (yeast
feeds on sugar), and/or adding liquid or a little gluten. Or try a
shorter baking cycle, such as rapid bake, if available.

Cakes already can be tricky but when you throw altitude into the mix
the pesky little confections can become positively cantankerous.

The higher in elevation you are the less air pressure there is. The
low air pressure causes water to boil at lower temperatures, thus
increasing the time it takes to boil and cook whatever food you're
preparing. The lowered air pressure also tends to cause baked goods
to rise faster. This requires a change in the proportion of
ingredients used in leavened foods. Occasionally, you may even need
to adjust the baking temperature in your oven as well, which means
the liquids will evaporate faster. When too much liquid evaporates
from your batter, the rest of the ingredients become concentrated.
This generally means you end up with too much sugar in the batter.
Too much sugar will prevent the cake from setting and you'll find a
gooey mess on your hands. At the same time, the air bubbles trapped
in the batter will be rising faster and developing a sneaky little
habit of escaping into the atmosphere. When these air bubbles rise
too fast your cake will rise fast and high=85then fall. This will
create a dense, dry mess of a cake.

Cooking at high altitudes generally requires two basic adjustments:

1. An increase in time for boiled foods.

2. A change in the proportions of ingredients used in leavened foods
such as cakes and yeast breads. In some instances, a change in
baking temperatures may also be necessary. Most cake recipes need no
modification for sea level up to the altitude of 3,000 feet. Above
that, it is often necessary to adjust recipes slightly. Usually, a
decrease in leavening or sugar (or both) and an increase in liquid
are needed. Remember, ingredients such as eggs or butter are
considered liquids.

BAKING For any baked goods that rise (yeast breads, cakes or breads
made with baking powder, etc.), it is important to adjust the recipe
so that the rapid rise time d=F6sn't make the resulting bread or cake
too dry. This can be done as follows:

For yeast cakes:

Yeast cakes rise more quickly at high altitudes, so be sure to watch
your dough carefully and judge the rise time by the change in the
dough's bulk, not by the amount of time it takes. Proofing time for
yeast cakes should be reduced.

For cakes using baking powder:

Don't overbeat the eggs. Overbeating adds too much air to the cake.
Raise the baking temperature slightly; the faster cooking time will
keep the recipe from rising too much. At elevations over 3,500 feet,
the oven temperature for batters and doughs should be about 25
degrees F higher than the temperature used at sea level. Decrease
the amount of baking powder slightly; this also prevents the recipe
from rising too much.

For foam cakes:

Don't overbeat the eggs. Foam cakes have a very delicate egg protein
structure. Reduce sugar slightly to help compensate for the liquid
lo=DF. Increase whole eggs or egg whites to compensate for the liquid
lo=DF.

Cakes tend to stick more when they are baked at high altitudes. So
be sure to always grease your baking pans well and dust them with
flour or line them with parchment paper. Exceptions are angel food
cakes and sponge cakes, which should always be baked in ungreased
pans. Also, fill pans only 1/2 full of batter, not the usual 2/3
full, as high altitude cakes may overflow.

Follow the chart below for more specific adjustments. When adapting
a recipe for high altitudes always start out with the smallest
adjustment, then add more adjustments later and only if necessary.
Keep in mind that any or all of these adjustments may be required,
for every recipe is different in its balance of ingredients. Only
repeated experiments with each different recipe can give the most
successful proportions to use. It's a good idea to keep notes of how
you adjusted your recipes until you know what works best for your
particular location. Good luck and happy baking!

GUIDE FOR CAKE BAKING AT HIGH ALTITUDES

: Reduce baking powder: for each teaspoon decrease 1/8 teaspoon.
: Reduce sugar: for each cup, decrease 0 to 1 tablespoon.
: Increase liquid: for each cup, add 1 to 2 tablespoons.
: Increase oven temperature by 25 degrees F.

Adjustment for 6000+ feet:

: Reduce baking powder: for each teaspoon, decrease 1/8 to 1/4
teaspoon.
: Reduce sugar: for each cup, decrease 0 to 2 tablespoons.
: Increase liquid: for each cup, add 2 to 4 tablespoons.
: Increase oven temperature by 25 degrees F.

Adjustment for 7000+ feet:

: Reduce baking powder: for each teaspoon, decrease 1/4 teaspoon.
: Reduce sugar: for each cup, decrease 1 to 3 tablespoons.
: Increase liquid: for each cup, add 3 to 4 tablespoons.
: Increase oven temperature by 25 degrees F.

=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D


--=20
Sincerly,

C=3D=A6-)=A7 H. W. Hans Kuntze, CMC, S.g.K. (_o_)
http://www.cmcchef.com , chefATcmcchef.com
"Don't cry because it's over, Smile because it Happened"
_/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/=20

  #4 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 07-12-2003, 08:14 PM
The Old Bear
 
Posts: n/a
Default newbie, altitude cooking

(alia) writes:

From:
(alia)
Newsgroups: rec.food.baking
Subject: newbie, altitude cooking
Date: 5 Dec 2003 21:37:30 -0800

i love to cook and recently moved to the sangre de christo mountains
in new mexico. i never baked much before for lack of space, but here
i find i am cooking a lot more, and baking as well.
however, i am at around 7000 feet here, and my cakes are Falling In!
does anyone have any suggestions as to how to compensate for this? i
understand there is a way, but i dont know how to do it.



Alia:

Some of the best answers are recycled... here is a post which I made
to this newsgroup in answer to a similar question about a year ago:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

Newsgroups: rec.food.baking
From:
(The Old Bear)
Subject: High-Altitude bread recipe?
Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2002 18:18:26 -0400

Angel writes:

From: Angel
Newsgroups: rec.food.baking
Subject: High-Altitude bread recipe?
Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2002 04:02:34 GMT

Can any of you offer a tried and true recipe for homemade white or
wheat bread ... that won't be watery and unusable at altitude? I'm at
6000 feet, and had just learned to make it from scratch at sea level
before moving here!


You may find this book helpful:

The New High Altitude Cookbook
by
Beverley Anderson & Donna Miller
ISBN: 0394513088


Alternatively, do bread machines work OK at altitude? My husband has
suggested just buying one of them to get fresh bread, since I can't
seem to figure out baking here.


My son moved to the University of Colorado in Boulder a couple of
years ago. We gave him a basic bread machine for his apartment. His
housemate decided to use it, following one of the recipes in the
instruction book but overlooking the note at the beginning of the
instruction book about reducing the amount of yeast. His housemate
also left the machine unattended.

Next thing I know, I am getting a phone call that the machine does
not work. The indicator lights don't even come on. It's dead dead
dead.

Further inquiry provides the following information: apparently, with
a normal amount of yeast, the dough rose over the top of the pan and
flowed down the outside between the pan and the heating element,
where it caught fire. The heat from the burning dough was suffient
to activate the small thermal fuse located within the machine, thus
shutting off all power to the machine.

They managed to clean everything up including removing the burnt
dough and had the machine looking like new -- but not working --
when I came to visit. I took it home, disassembled it, and obtained
a new thermal fuse from a local appliance repair shop. (The shop
would not fix it because their minimum one hour charge was just
about what I paid for the machine. My time, on the other hand, is
cheap -- especially when one has a son in college.)

The lesson is that you can bake at 6000 feet with a bread machine
but you need to reduce the amount of yeast and make adjustments to
the amount of liquid if your bread machine does not allow you to
alter the times of its various cycles.


Locals tell me it's all in the leavenings, but after plenty of failed
experiments, I'm ready to beg for help!



Your USDA Cooperative Extension probably can give you some good
information on what works at your altitude and climate.

The University of Wyoming, Agricultural Experiment Station in
Laramie, Wyoming published a 4-page bulletin (B-989) in August 1994:

Bread Machine Baking at High Altitude
prepared by
Rhoda Schantz, Assistant Professor of Food and Nutrition

You can read this bulletin online in Adobe PDF format at:

http://www.uwyo.edu/ces/pubs/wy989.pdf

I believe that this is about the third or fourth time that the folks at
the University of Wyoming have prepared guides to high altitude
baking. They've been doing this for years and this bulletin takes the
techniques they've developed and adapts them to automatic bread machine
use.

There is also a general high altitude publication (B-427) which explains
how to bake cakes and bread in the oven and includes many recipes. It
can be purchased from the University of Wyoming Cooperative Extension
Service or you can download the entire 75 pages (complete with photos and
illustrations) in Adobe PDF format at:

http://www.uwyo.edu/ces/pubs/b427.pdf

Good luck and happy baking.

Cheers,
The Old Bear


  #5 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 25-12-2003, 12:37 AM
Angel
 
Posts: n/a
Default newbie, altitude cooking

Hey! That post was answering me, Old Bear! Talk about a
flashback.

I did get the High Altitude Cookbook referenced below, and it came in
handy with a LOT of things. On the other hand, I found a lot of their
meat recipes to be very drying, and had to adapt (adding water, broth,
etc.)

One tip I *just* learned ... don't use air-insulated cookie sheets as
they make all the gooey bits melt too fast.

Alia - enjoy your adventures in high-altitude cooking. Everything
works pretty much the same except for baking and boiling. I do my
beans in a crockpot for about 14 hrs total & they come out great (2 on
high, 10-12 on low, soaked for about 12 hrs before cooking).

Angel

On Sun, 7 Dec 2003 15:14:42 -0500,
(The Old Bear) wrote:


Alia:

Some of the best answers are recycled... here is a post which I made
to this newsgroup in answer to a similar question about a year ago:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

Newsgroups: rec.food.baking
From:
(The Old Bear)
Subject: High-Altitude bread recipe?
Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2002 18:18:26 -0400

Angel writes:

From: Angel
Newsgroups: rec.food.baking
Subject: High-Altitude bread recipe?
Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2002 04:02:34 GMT

Can any of you offer a tried and true recipe for homemade white or
wheat bread ... that won't be watery and unusable at altitude? I'm at
6000 feet, and had just learned to make it from scratch at sea level
before moving here!


You may find this book helpful:

The New High Altitude Cookbook
by
Beverley Anderson & Donna Miller
ISBN: 0394513088




  #6 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 28-12-2003, 05:17 AM
The Old Bear
 
Posts: n/a
Default newbie, altitude cooking

Angel writes:

From: Angel
Newsgroups: rec.food.baking
Subject: newbie, altitude cooking
Date: Thu, 25 Dec 2003 00:37:09 GMT

Hey! That post was answering me, Old Bear! Talk about a
flashback.

I did get the High Altitude Cookbook referenced below, and it came in
handy with a LOT of things. On the other hand, I found a lot of their
meat recipes to be very drying, and had to adapt (adding water, broth,
etc.)


Ah, there is a certain irony at work. When we were in Colorado at
Thanksgiving, we acquired the Junior League of Denver's third cookbook
called "Colorado Collage." (There is now a fourth cookbook in this
wonderful series available.)

The book has a whole section on breads but fails to note whether the
recipes are for Denver's altitude or based on standard sea level
cookery.

One of the recipes is for "Brew Pub Bread" and I decided to try making
it here at approximate sea level in Boston:

| BREW PUB BREAD
| --------------
|
| A subtle beer flavor makes this a nice accompaniment to
| hearty soups and sandwiches.
|
| 2 cups dark beer
| 1 cup oatmeal
| 2 teaspoons salt
| 1/2 cup molasses
| 1/4 cup unsalted butter, softened (1/2 stick)
| 1 package dry yeast (1/4 ounce)
| 1/3 cup warm water (105-115 F)
| 5-6 cups unbleached flour
|
| In a small sacuepan, heat beer to boiling. In a large bowl, combine
| oatmeal, salt, molasses, butter, and hot beer. Set aside and cool
| to lukewarm.
|
| Disolve yeast in water. Add to oatmeal mixture and stir to blend.
| Stir in flour, 2 cups at a time, stirring well after each addition.
| Turn dough out onto lightly floured surface and knead 8-10 minutes,
| or until smooth and elastic.
|
| Place in oiled bowl, turning to coat entire surface. Cover with
| plastic wrap and towel and let rise until doubled in bulk, about
| 1 hour.
|
| Punch dough down, and divide in half. Shape each piece into a loaf
| and place in ungreased 9x5-inch loaf pans. Cover as before and let
| rise until doubled in bulk, about 45 minutes.
|
| Preheat oven to 375 F. Bake 30-40 minutes, or until loaves sound
| hollow when tapped on top, and sides pull away from pans. Remove
| from oven and cool in pans 10 minutes. Remove from pans and cool
| on rack.
|
| Makes 2 loaves.
|
|
| Source: Colorado Collage
| Junior League of Denver (1995)


This bread turned out with a great flavor and with a fine dense and
moist texture. But the rise times were a bit longer than those
specified in the recipe. The final rise went about an hour and a half.
(But, if you bake bread, you know to judge the rising time by the
appearance and feel of the dough rather than by the clock.)

I'm glad to hear that things are going well and I wish you the best for
a happy holiday season and a joyous New Year.

Cheers,
Will
The Old Bear



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