Baking (rec.food.baking) For bakers, would-be bakers, and fans and consumers of breads, pastries, cakes, pies, cookies, crackers, bagels, and other items commonly found in a bakery. Includes all methods of preparation, both conventional and not.

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  #16 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 04-12-2003, 09:10 PM
Me
 
Posts: n/a
Default rich, moist chocolate cake

Thanks for all of the chocolate info. I'm afraid I don't get out enough and
by "good" chocolate (not that I buy bad chocolate instead).

Anyway, since I don't know much about this subject, can you give me your
opinion of chocolates such as Valrohna?

Thanks,
SC

"Alex Rast" wrote in message
...
at Thu, 04 Dec 2003 04:50:08 GMT in ,
(Dee Randall) wrote :

it's unfortunate that you have Scharffen
Berger, because it's not particularly good, relative to other chocolates
in its class. They underroast, resulting in an aggressively fruity
taste....

Yes, come to think of it, a "fruitiness" now that I think back on using
half of the 99%, is the taste that I was wondering about. I was
thinking it was just to bitter for me


Fruitiness and bitterness are closely related. Scharffen Berger is very
deliberate in going for a fruity flavour, but rather like you, most

people,
it would seem, just find it too aggressive for their liking. Good

chocolate
isn't deceptive in that sense - if it tastes less-than-ideal, it's less
than ideal. Even a 100% can have no bitterness at all (e.g. Slitti) or

have
bitterness that is by no means harsh (e.g. Cluizel).

I am open to suggestions for what is considered a good brand of
chocolate that you might recommend.


For everyday use, Ghirardelli is very good.
For slightly upscale, Guittard is excellent.
For *definitely* upscale, Michel Cluizel is perhaps the best overall.
For an ultra-splurge, experiment with Domori which is as good as Cluizel
but with some additional, exclusive varietals (especially Porcelana,
Carenero Superior)

--
Alex Rast

(remove d., .7, not, and .NOSPAM to reply)




  #17 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 04-12-2003, 10:45 PM
Alex Rast
 
Posts: n/a
Default rich, moist chocolate cake

at Thu, 04 Dec 2003 21:10:23 GMT in ,
(Me) wrote :

Thanks for all of the chocolate info. I'm afraid I don't get out enough
and by "good" chocolate (not that I buy bad chocolate instead).

Anyway, since I don't know much about this subject, can you give me your
opinion of chocolates such as Valrohna?


Well, there really isn't such a thing as "such as Valrhona". It's either
Valrhona or not. What I mean by this is, you can't "lump" chocolates into
categories by associating them with a particular brand. Nor can you do so
by country. So it's equally misleading to talk about "French" or "Swiss" or
"American" chocolate as it is about chocolates "such as" Valrhona, or
Lindt, or Guittard. Even price isn't a particularly reliable guide: there
are world-class chocolates available at pittances, and chocolates that cost
a bomb that aren't any better than Nestle. Typically each quality chocolate
manufacturer has a "signature" taste - it's then up to you to decide which
type of taste you tend to like best.

As for Valrhona themselves, they make generally excellent chocolate. The
flavour of their chocolates usually leans strongly towards the fruity side.
But unlike Scharffen Berger, I've found that they usually don't go
overboard, so, yes, it's fruity, no, it's not overbearingly fruity. The
other thing Valrhona is well-known for is impeccable texture. Valrhona
chocolates are always ultra-smooth and creamy, usually better than similar
competitors. While this is valuable when you're eating it straight, it has
less of a direct impact if you're using it in baking. There are a few big
"winners" from Valrhona : chocolates that are worth your time to track down
and try.

Caraibe: Displays the characteristics of Trinitario cocoas. Pungent,
molasses flavour.
Le Noir Amer: A good reference for a general-purpose 70% bittersweet.
Nicely powerful, redolent of currants.
Araguani: A refreshingly new direction for them. It's roasted a little
longer, resulting in a beautiful, floral taste.
Gran Couva: The last 2 I'm listing are definitely a notch better than the
others. This one is very complex, with piney and blueberry notes. It varies
from year to year. A grand semisweet chocolate.
Guanaja: This is the chocolate that started it all: the one that created
the revival of interest in ultra-quality chocolate. Lives up to its
reputation beyond your imagination. Amazingly intense, tropical flavour,
and even the texture somehow seems a little better than other Valrhonas.
When it first came out, this chocolate pretty much redefined people's
concepts of what good chocolate could be. One of the world's great
chocolates.

--
Alex Rast

(remove d., .7, not, and .NOSPAM to reply)
  #18 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 04-12-2003, 11:25 PM
Dee Randall
 
Posts: n/a
Default rich, moist chocolate cake

Alex, I can't get back to your posting re the Chocolate Death cake, so I
will piggy-back this message to ask you:

When you say to "thoroughly grease and flour a 9" cake pan," I'm wondering
if you would consider using butter instead of shortening -- I don't use
shortening. Or what you might use instead of shortening? I don't have any
more spectrum. I usually put a teeny-weeny bit of oil (olive oil -- don't
scold!) on the bottom of a pan -- not enough to really taste. If I use Pam,
I will wipe the majority of it off, as well.

#2 question:
What do you think of the suggestion that many cooks make: to use "cocoa"
instead of flour when greasing and flouring the pan. I'm not sure what the
top limits of degrees -- say 375? would be for using cocoa.
Any comments on this appreciated!

Dee




"Alex Rast" wrote in message
...
at Thu, 04 Dec 2003 21:10:23 GMT in ,
(Me) wrote :

Thanks for all of the chocolate info. I'm afraid I don't get out enough
and by "good" chocolate (not that I buy bad chocolate instead).

Anyway, since I don't know much about this subject, can you give me your
opinion of chocolates such as Valrohna?


Well, there really isn't such a thing as "such as Valrhona". It's either
Valrhona or not. What I mean by this is, you can't "lump" chocolates into
categories by associating them with a particular brand. Nor can you do so
by country. So it's equally misleading to talk about "French" or "Swiss"

or
"American" chocolate as it is about chocolates "such as" Valrhona, or
Lindt, or Guittard. Even price isn't a particularly reliable guide: there
are world-class chocolates available at pittances, and chocolates that

cost
a bomb that aren't any better than Nestle. Typically each quality

chocolate
manufacturer has a "signature" taste - it's then up to you to decide which
type of taste you tend to like best.

As for Valrhona themselves, they make generally excellent chocolate. The
flavour of their chocolates usually leans strongly towards the fruity

side.
But unlike Scharffen Berger, I've found that they usually don't go
overboard, so, yes, it's fruity, no, it's not overbearingly fruity. The
other thing Valrhona is well-known for is impeccable texture. Valrhona
chocolates are always ultra-smooth and creamy, usually better than similar
competitors. While this is valuable when you're eating it straight, it has
less of a direct impact if you're using it in baking. There are a few big
"winners" from Valrhona : chocolates that are worth your time to track

down
and try.

Caraibe: Displays the characteristics of Trinitario cocoas. Pungent,
molasses flavour.
Le Noir Amer: A good reference for a general-purpose 70% bittersweet.
Nicely powerful, redolent of currants.
Araguani: A refreshingly new direction for them. It's roasted a little
longer, resulting in a beautiful, floral taste.
Gran Couva: The last 2 I'm listing are definitely a notch better than the
others. This one is very complex, with piney and blueberry notes. It

varies
from year to year. A grand semisweet chocolate.
Guanaja: This is the chocolate that started it all: the one that created
the revival of interest in ultra-quality chocolate. Lives up to its
reputation beyond your imagination. Amazingly intense, tropical flavour,
and even the texture somehow seems a little better than other Valrhonas.
When it first came out, this chocolate pretty much redefined people's
concepts of what good chocolate could be. One of the world's great
chocolates.

--
Alex Rast

(remove d., .7, not, and .NOSPAM to reply)



  #20 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 05-12-2003, 04:54 AM
jlh
 
Posts: n/a
Default rich, moist chocolate cake

If this cake can be tricky to get out of the pan, it would be a good
idea to use a parchment circle on the bottom of the pan.



  #21 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 05-12-2003, 02:35 PM
Dee Randall
 
Posts: n/a
Default rich, moist chocolate cake

I was re-reading your email to my spouse and getting a good chuckle.

What I do for bulk spices is buy from a "Grandpa's pantry" and several
ethnic grocery stores both within a hundred miles of where I live, but I am
never certain as to their quality.

He is wondering if you have a source you might recommend for bulk spices or
do you order separate spices from separate places? (I know you do for
saffron).

Thanks again for the chuckle, as well.

Dee






"Dee Randall" wrote in message
...
Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha!
That's a good one, Hans -- you got me on that one!
Dee

"H. W. Hans Kuntze" wrote in message
...
Dee Randall wrote:

Thanks for the answers, but whut's up with the vaseline statement? Do

you
mean because it's so hard to open?

Nope.

If so, possibly a strap wrench would be in order.

I don't think a strap wrench would help in this case, Dee. :-)

It has more to do with easing the pain of being taken advantage of.

Fair prices would help a great deal more.

But, more power to them.

--
Sincerly,

C=-) H. W. Hans Kuntze, CMC, S.g.K. (_o_)
http://www.cmcchef.com , chefATcmcchef.com
"Don't cry because it's over, Smile because it Happened"
_/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/




  #22 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 05-12-2003, 09:36 PM
H. W. Hans Kuntze
 
Posts: n/a
Default rich, moist chocolate cake

Dee Randall wrote:

[...]

He is wondering if you have a source you might recommend for bulk spices=

or
do you order separate spices from separate places? (I know you do for
saffron).[...]
=20

Are we talking commercially or for the household? And what quantities?

Commercially, for super fresh, smaller quantities, there is an outfit,=20
R.L Schreiber, that is reliable and good.
They come by the restaurant, according to need and schedule, replenisch=20
what is needed.
http://www.rlschreiber.com/
They have independent contractors with a van in most larger cities and=20
spices is what they do.

For large quantities, that is competitively bid out as a commodity from=20
approved vendors or per contract from the spice mill.

For the household it is much more difficult with freshness.
I would recommend to buy whole spices in bulk with friends or neighbors=20
from SF Spice Company http://www.sfherb.com/ or their equivalent on=20
the east-coast http://www.atlanticspice.com/ .
Only buy as much as you can use up within 3- 6 month or keep airtight in =

the freezer (whole) and grind (small, cheap coffe mill) what you need=20
for a few weeks.
Don't buy ground pepper, Allspice, Anis, Nutmeg, etc. ground, grind it=20
yourself, fresh as you need it and you will notice a marked difference.

That will go a long way towards quality. Some people buy sage once, for=20
the thanksgiving turkey and 3 years later they are still using the 4=20
ounce jar.

If at all possible, grow herbs yourself (windowsill is OK) and use them=20
fresh as you need it.

--=20
Sincerly,

C=3D=A6-)=A7 H. W. Hans Kuntze, CMC, S.g.K. (_o_)
http://www.cmcchef.com , chefATcmcchef.com
"Don't cry because it's over, Smile because it Happened"
_/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/=20

  #23 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 05-12-2003, 10:43 PM
Nexis
 
Posts: n/a
Default rich, moist chocolate cake


"Elitsirk" wrote in message
om...
I've been on a hunt for a rich, moist chocolate cake recipe. At
various restaurants, I've had rich, dark, moist cakes, but the closest
home version I can find is a Duncan Hines devils' food cake.

Does anyone have a from-scratch recipe? Or at least a guide for what
to look for in a chocolate cake recipe (i.e. cocoa vs chocolate,
presence/absence of things like sour cream, etc)?

I've tried a couple of cakes (chocolate pound cake, and the basic
chocolate cake recipe) in The Cake Bible, and they came out drier,
with a paler color than I would have liked. (As a side note, if you
accidentally melt the butter by adding the water/cocoa poweder mixture
while it's still hot in the basic cake recipe, it makes decent
brownies....).

Last week for Thanksgiving, I made a cake called "rich chocolate cake"
from a bargain cookbook that was ok, but certainly not rich. Instead
of cocoa powder, it called for bittersweet chocolate, and used brown
sugar instead of regular. The color was extremely light, and the
chocolate taste only so-so.

Thanks for any hints!
--Elit.


Go to Hershey's website and look up the Black Magic chocolate cake. Rich,
moist, and intensely chocolaty, especially if you add a couple teaspoons of
espresso or use coffee rather than boiling water.

Seriously, it's one of the best chocolate cake recipes ever.

kimberly


  #24 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 05-12-2003, 11:13 PM
H. W. Hans Kuntze
 
Posts: n/a
Default rich, moist chocolate cake

Nexis wrote:

[...]

Go to Hershey's website and look up the Black Magic chocolate cake. Rich=

,
moist, and intensely chocolaty, especially if you add a couple teaspoons=

of
espresso or use coffee rather than boiling water.

Seriously, it's one of the best chocolate cake recipes ever.
=20

http://hersheykitchens.hersheys.com/...ch_results.asp

Search Results for: Black Magic chocolate cake
=20
There are currently no recipes for Black Magic chocolate cake.
Please check back again for new recipes.

But Google finds it:
http://halloween-recipes.hersheykitc...s/BlackMagicC=
ake.asp=20
(

=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D REZKONV-Rezept - RezkonvSuite v0.96f

Titel: BLACK MAGIC CAKE
Kategorien: Baking, Chocolate
Menge: 1 Rezept

1 teasp. Baking powder
1 teasp. Salt
2 Eggs
1/2 cup Vegetable oil
2 cups Sugar
1 -3/4 cups all-purpose flour
3/4 cup HERSHEY'S Cocoa
2 teasp. Baking soda
1 cup Buttermilk or sour milk*
1 cup Strong black coffee OR 2 teaspoons powdered
-instant coffee plus 1 cup boiling water
1 teasp. Vanilla extract

=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3 D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D QUELLE =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3 D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
Hershey's
-Erfasst *RK* 05.12.03 von
-H.W. Hans Kuntze, CMC

1. Heat oven to 350=B0F. Grease and flour two 9-inch round baking pans
or one 13x9x2-inch baking pan.

2. Stir together sugar, flour, cocoa, baking soda, baking powder and
salt in large bowl. Add eggs, buttermilk, coffee, oil and vanilla;
beat on medium speed of mixer 2 minutes (batter will be thin). Pour
batter evenly into prepared pans.

3. Bake 30 to 35 minutes for round pans, 35 to 40 minutes for
rectangular pan or until wooden pick inserted in center comes out
clean. Cool 10 minutes; remove from pans to wire racks. Cool
completely. Frost as desired. 10 to 12 servings.

* To sour milk: Use 1 tablespoon white vinegar plus milk to equal 1
cup.

=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D


--=20
Sincerly,

C=3D=A6-)=A7 H. W. Hans Kuntze, CMC, S.g.K. (_o_)
http://www.cmcchef.com , chefATcmcchef.com
"Don't cry because it's over, Smile because it Happened"
_/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/=20

  #25 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 06-12-2003, 04:36 PM
Snowfeet1
 
Posts: n/a
Default rich, moist chocolate cake

Penzey's has some of the best spices I've ever purchased. They are
headquartered in Wisconsin - have stores in several states. I ordered some
Tuesday and received them yesterday. They have a website and will send you a
catalog.


  #26 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 07-12-2003, 12:49 AM
Dee Randall
 
Posts: n/a
Default rich, moist chocolate cake

I just got thru eating the Chocolate Death cake made from the recipe.

My comments:
It completely satisfied my chocolate desire -- much better than a couple
dozen Droste chocolates!

I did take a person's hint to put parchment paper on the bottom and it
turned out after 5 minutes ileft in the pan, onto the counter, beautifully.

With this recipe and my taste, I did not miss any frosting, as I don't
really care for frosting on a cake, only perhaps a little glaze
occasionally.

I followed directions to the letter. The only problem I had was I think I
overdid it on the eggs whipping to a stiff peak. They came out in 4"
squares like pieces of snow. I don't know when to stop on beating eggs in
the Kitchen Aid in a copper bowl. If I had beaten them by hand, perhaps I
would have been able to judge better.

I baked it 45 minutes. It had barely a dark line around the cake indicating
that it might have gone a little too long. My oven was 350 and it was
tested recently for accuracy using an oven thermometer.

The cake was too dry, but had the chocolate taste I desire. I'm thinking
that next time I will whip my eggs by hand, and perhaps bake it 40-43
minutes.

Thanks for this great recipe.
Dee


"Elitsirk" wrote in message
om...
Thank you for the very in-depth answer! This is just the sort of
information I was looking for. I am looking forward to trying your
recipe--it definitely looks intriguing

--Elit.

(Alex Rast) wrote in message

...
at Wed, 03 Dec 2003 21:52:56 GMT in
,

(Elitsirk) wrote :

I've been on a hunt for a rich, moist chocolate cake recipe. At
various restaurants, I've had rich, dark, moist cakes, but the closest
home version I can find is a Duncan Hines devils' food cake.

Does anyone have a from-scratch recipe?


This recipe is for the cake portion of "Chocolate Death", my ultimate
chocolate cake recipe that I posted some time back. It's hard to go

wrong
with this one.

{snip}





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