I would be interested in opinions about various stand mixers for all around
home baking needs. Thanks in advance.
Frank

In article >, "Frank103" >
wrote:

> I would be interested in opinions about various stand mixers for all around
> home baking needs. Thanks in advance.
> Frank

I have a KA (bowl lift) that's 25 years old or so - when they were still
made by Hobart. It's a champ. I use the grinder attachment a couple
four times a year, maybe.
--
-Barb, Mother Superior, HOSSSPoJ
"Maligning an individual says more about you than the one you malign."
http://web.mac.com/barbschaller; blahblahblog 10/13/2006
http://jamlady.eboard.com, Cedric Adams' Hotdish, 10/20/2006

I see Emerill is now using the Viking mixer... last year he didn't have nice
things to say about KA (which I own).

http://cgi.ebay.com/7-Quart-Viking-P...photoho sting

$400 plus category evidently.



--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

On 10/29/06, theChas. > wrote:
>
> I see Emerill is now using the Viking mixer... last year he didn't have nice
> things to say about KA (which I own).

On the other hand, I remember Emerill and Bobby Flay trying to wrestle
the bowl out of a Viking Mixer so they could get something they'd
beaten out of it. In the end, they picked up the mixer and tilted it
so they could pour/scrape the contents out of the bowl.

At this point, I'm not any more impressed with Viking than I am with a
KitchenAid. (I've had a K45SS sunce 1978 or so, and am very happy
with it.)

Mike

Mike Avery wrote:
>
> On 10/29/06, theChas. > wrote:
> >
> > I see Emerill is now using the Viking mixer... last year he didn't have nice
> > things to say about KA (which I own).
>
> On the other hand, I remember Emerill and Bobby Flay trying to wrestle
> the bowl out of a Viking Mixer so they could get something they'd
> beaten out of it. In the end, they picked up the mixer and tilted it
> so they could pour/scrape the contents out of the bowl.
>
> At this point, I'm not any more impressed with Viking than I am with a
> KitchenAid. (I've had a K45SS sunce 1978 or so, and am very happy
> with it.)
>
> Mike

More than likely, Emerill, BF, and others are probably paid generous
endorsement fees to use the various products they use on their shows.
That'd be my guess anywhoo.

Sky

Frank103 wrote:
> I would be interested in opinions about various stand mixers for all around
> home baking needs. Thanks in advance.
> Frank
>
>
After 30+ years of use, I would again buy a Bosch. Ease of adding during
the mixing cycle is a big plus. It has also kneaded a lot of bread.
Norvin

"theChas." > wrote in message
.. .
>
> I see Emerill is now using the Viking mixer... last year he didn't have
> nice
> things to say about KA (which I own).

When I originally sent this message I think I clicked on "Reply" rather than
"Group Reply" so I'll try again.

I was reading the reviews for KA on amazon.com and mostly they were
averaging 4 to 4 1/2 stars. But there were some very unhappy people who
noted a decline in quality since Hobart sold out to Whirlpool. One reviewer
mentioned the use of plastic gears instead of metal. Others were unhappy
that the mixer turned off for a few minutes while kneading when it got
over-heated. I believe KA starts off with a 300 watt motor for the less
expensive models. Viking has 800 watts. The link given for the Viking on
Ebay is up to $400 and it's used. New Vikings on Amazon start around $500
plus. There's no doubt that Viking is the stronger machine. But is it worth
twice the price of a KA? Costco is selling the KA Professional HD model for
$269. (I would take the use of the word "professional" with many grains of
salt.) However, on the box they proudly announce that the "professional"
model has direct-drive all steel gear transmission and a 475 watt motor -
which should be able to serve most people's needs. So I bought one. If I'm
not happy with it, Costco will take it back and give me a refund.
Frank






>
> http://cgi.ebay.com/7-Quart-Viking-P...photoho sting
>
> $400 plus category evidently.
>
>
>
> --
> Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
>

On 10/30/06, Frank103 > wrote:

> I was reading the reviews for KA on amazon.com and mostly they were
> averaging 4 to 4 1/2 stars. But there were some very unhappy people who
> noted a decline in quality since Hobart sold out to Whirlpool. One reviewer
> mentioned the use of plastic gears instead of metal.

Hobart used A plastic gear also. It is in there so the people who
don't read the manual will strip a cheap gear instead of burning out
an expensive motor.

> Others were unhappy
> that the mixer turned off for a few minutes while kneading when it got
> over-heated. I believe KA starts off with a 300 watt motor for the less
> expensive models. Viking has 800 watts. The link given for the Viking on
> Ebay is up to $400 and it's used. New Vikings on Amazon start around $500
> plus. There's no doubt that Viking is the stronger machine.

Actually, there is reason to wonder.

> But is it worth
> twice the price of a KA? Costco is selling the KA Professional HD model for
> $269. (I would take the use of the word "professional" with many grains of
> salt.)

A big grain of salt.

> However, on the box they proudly announce that the "professional"
> model has direct-drive all steel gear transmission and a 475 watt motor -
> which should be able to serve most people's needs. So I bought one. If I'm
> not happy with it, Costco will take it back and give me a refund.

For some time, I owned a bakery. We had a Hobart 30 quart mixer. We
bought it used, and it was probably older than I am. We won't go too
far into how old I am, but I am certainly old enough to drink
legally... and a good bit more.

It had a 275 watt motor in it. I routinely mixed 10 pounds of bagels
or 25 pounds of bread dough in it. One batch after another. For
about 5 to 8 hours a day. It ran very nicely.

So, why does a home mixer, intended to mix just a few pounds of bread
dough need an 800 watt motor?

The key difference is simple. The professional mixer has a
transmission in it. The motor runs at an optimum speed and the gears
change the speed of the mixing action.

The home mixer uses a variable speed electric motor. When mixing
dough, it is being asked to deliver high torque at low speeds. Which
electric motors don't like to do. This provides strain throughout the
drive train.

A professional mixer comes with a chart that tells you what your load
limits are, in pounds of product, by product type, and includes limits
on doughs, such as the flour type and hydration. You can make a lot
of cake batter, less bread dough, and much less pizza dough or bagel
dough. My ancient 30 quart mixer could make about 44% as much pizza
dough as bread dough.

KitchenAid says it has X cups of "flour power" They do tell you to
reduce the load of the mixer when using whole grain flours, as they
are harder to mix. They don't mention hydration in their
documentation.

My ancient KitchenAid's manual has a warning that you should let the
mixer cool off for 45 minutes after mixing two batches of bread dough
back to back. I recently asked KitchenAid if ANY of their mixers at
any price could be used to produce back to back batches of dough all
day long. The answer was, no. I do not know why they can call any of
their mixers professional or commercial when they can not tolerate a
professional or commercial workload.

I haven't seen a Viking's instruction manual, but it faces the same
fundamental limitation as the KitchenAid, a variable speed motor. It
is an inapporopriate design choice if you are going to be making lots
of bread. In one of these forums, someone complained that her
KitchenAid died on her. She was on her 4th batch of whole wheat
bread. And each batch was a serious overload of the mixer - if she'd
been using white flour. Is it the mixer's fault she didn't read the
manual? No.. but the mixer was still not the best tool for the job.
If you have a home mixer, regardless of brand, you need to read the
manual and be aware of its limitations.

Hobart, among others, make professional mixers in sizes suitable for home use.

Another option that is frequently mentioned is the Bosch mixer. I
owned one for a while and sold it on eBay. I found the beaters too
fragile for real world use, and the dough hook heated the dough too
much. Neither my employees nor I liked it.

I've played with a Magix Mill/Electrolux Assistent once and it seems a
better design than the Bosch, but you are paying a good bit more. I'd
rather play with a mixer a lot longer before recommending it, though a
friend who's judgement I trust strongly prefers the Electrolux, and
she owns both.

Any tool has to be selected with an eye towards what you are going to
use it for. If you are beating egg whites and making cakes, a
KitchenAid is a great choice. After all these years, I still like my
KitchenAid. If you're doing lots of bread, neither it - nor any
machine with a variable speed motor - is likely to be a good choice.
Especially if you are making whole grain or denser breads.

Mike

As Mike Avery pointed out, home mixers do have there limits. KA gives the
following maximums for all purpose and whole wheat flour:
5 quart mixer: 12 cups ap max/6 cups ww max
6quart mixer: 14 cups ap max/8 cups ww max

"Mike Avery" > wrote in message
news:mailman.7.1162233523.27802.rec.food.baking@ma il.otherwhen.com...
> On 10/30/06, Frank103 > wrote:
>
>> I was reading the reviews for KA on amazon.com and mostly they were
>> averaging 4 to 4 1/2 stars. But there were some very unhappy people who
>> noted a decline in quality since Hobart sold out to Whirlpool. One
>> reviewer
>> mentioned the use of plastic gears instead of metal.
>
> Hobart used A plastic gear also. It is in there so the people who
> don't read the manual will strip a cheap gear instead of burning out
> an expensive motor.
>
>> Others were unhappy
>> that the mixer turned off for a few minutes while kneading when it got
>> over-heated. I believe KA starts off with a 300 watt motor for the less
>> expensive models. Viking has 800 watts. The link given for the Viking on
>> Ebay is up to $400 and it's used. New Vikings on Amazon start around $500
>> plus. There's no doubt that Viking is the stronger machine.
>
> Actually, there is reason to wonder.
>
>> But is it worth
>> twice the price of a KA? Costco is selling the KA Professional HD model
>> for
>> $269. (I would take the use of the word "professional" with many grains
>> of
>> salt.)
>
> A big grain of salt.
>
>> However, on the box they proudly announce that the "professional"
>> model has direct-drive all steel gear transmission and a 475 watt motor -
>> which should be able to serve most people's needs. So I bought one. If
>> I'm
>> not happy with it, Costco will take it back and give me a refund.
>
> For some time, I owned a bakery. We had a Hobart 30 quart mixer. We
> bought it used, and it was probably older than I am. We won't go too
> far into how old I am, but I am certainly old enough to drink
> legally... and a good bit more.
>
> It had a 275 watt motor in it. I routinely mixed 10 pounds of bagels
> or 25 pounds of bread dough in it. One batch after another. For
> about 5 to 8 hours a day. It ran very nicely.
>
> So, why does a home mixer, intended to mix just a few pounds of bread
> dough need an 800 watt motor?
>
> The key difference is simple. The professional mixer has a
> transmission in it. The motor runs at an optimum speed and the gears
> change the speed of the mixing action.
>
> The home mixer uses a variable speed electric motor. When mixing
> dough, it is being asked to deliver high torque at low speeds. Which
> electric motors don't like to do. This provides strain throughout the
> drive train.
>
> A professional mixer comes with a chart that tells you what your load
> limits are, in pounds of product, by product type, and includes limits
> on doughs, such as the flour type and hydration. You can make a lot
> of cake batter, less bread dough, and much less pizza dough or bagel
> dough. My ancient 30 quart mixer could make about 44% as much pizza
> dough as bread dough.
>
> KitchenAid says it has X cups of "flour power" They do tell you to
> reduce the load of the mixer when using whole grain flours, as they
> are harder to mix. They don't mention hydration in their
> documentation.
>
> My ancient KitchenAid's manual has a warning that you should let the
> mixer cool off for 45 minutes after mixing two batches of bread dough
> back to back. I recently asked KitchenAid if ANY of their mixers at
> any price could be used to produce back to back batches of dough all
> day long. The answer was, no. I do not know why they can call any of
> their mixers professional or commercial when they can not tolerate a
> professional or commercial workload.
>
> I haven't seen a Viking's instruction manual, but it faces the same
> fundamental limitation as the KitchenAid, a variable speed motor. It
> is an inapporopriate design choice if you are going to be making lots
> of bread. In one of these forums, someone complained that her
> KitchenAid died on her. She was on her 4th batch of whole wheat
> bread. And each batch was a serious overload of the mixer - if she'd
> been using white flour. Is it the mixer's fault she didn't read the
> manual? No.. but the mixer was still not the best tool for the job.
> If you have a home mixer, regardless of brand, you need to read the
> manual and be aware of its limitations.
>
> Hobart, among others, make professional mixers in sizes suitable for home
> use.
>
> Another option that is frequently mentioned is the Bosch mixer. I
> owned one for a while and sold it on eBay. I found the beaters too
> fragile for real world use, and the dough hook heated the dough too
> much. Neither my employees nor I liked it.
>
> I've played with a Magix Mill/Electrolux Assistent once and it seems a
> better design than the Bosch, but you are paying a good bit more. I'd
> rather play with a mixer a lot longer before recommending it, though a
> friend who's judgement I trust strongly prefers the Electrolux, and
> she owns both.
>
> Any tool has to be selected with an eye towards what you are going to
> use it for. If you are beating egg whites and making cakes, a
> KitchenAid is a great choice. After all these years, I still like my
> KitchenAid. If you're doing lots of bread, neither it - nor any
> machine with a variable speed motor - is likely to be a good choice.
> Especially if you are making whole grain or denser breads.
>
> Mike

> Mike Avery wrote:
> For some time, I owned a bakery. We had a Hobart 30 quart mixer. We
> bought it used, and it was probably older than I am. We won't go too
> far into how old I am, but I am certainly old enough to drink
> legally... and a good bit more.
>
> It had a 275 watt motor in it.

Question: was that a single-phase motor or a three-phase motor? Many
commercial units have the advantage of 3-phase power, which allows a
much more efficient motor design. It is generally impossible to get
3-phase power in a residential structure unless you install your own
converter (formerly a rotary unit, although I understand solid state
systems are now available) which wastes a lot of electricity.

Steven

On 10/31/06, sPh > wrote:
> > Mike Avery wrote:
> > For some time, I owned a bakery. We had a Hobart 30 quart mixer. We
> > bought it used, and it was probably older than I am. We won't go too
> > far into how old I am, but I am certainly old enough to drink
> > legally... and a good bit more.

> > It had a 275 watt motor in it.

> Question: was that a single-phase motor or a three-phase motor? Many
> commercial units have the advantage of 3-phase power, which allows a
> much more efficient motor design.

You're right, that wasn't comparing apples to apples. It was a
3-phase motor. I just went to the Hobart web page to look at the
current 30 quart mixers... they are a lot nicer than the antique I
had. The motor I had was about a 1 amp motor, and looking at today's
Hobart motor specs, the single phase motor would have been about 700
watts. And I was able to mix about 25 loaves worth of bread with it,
back to back batches, for as much as 5 to 8 hours a day.

The current top of the line KitchenAid, the Professional 600 Series,
has a 575 watt motor, and it can mix up to about a 6.5 pound batrch of
dough, but may not be used for more than two batches in a row. The
difference remains in two factors. One is the motor in the Hobart is
a single phase motor and a transmission that lets it run at its
optimum speed. The other is build quality. However, I don't think
any build quality is going to overcome the inherent weakness of a
variable speed motor being asked to deliver high torque at low speeds.

> It is generally impossible to get
> 3-phase power in a residential structure unless you install your own
> converter (formerly a rotary unit, although I understand solid state
> systems are now available) which wastes a lot of electricity.

I see a lot of talk about 3-phase in the professional bakers mailing
lists I'm on. It seems to run somewhere between 5 and 15 thousand
dollars to run three phase into a building, if the three-phase is
already available in the area, which it usually is not in residential
areas.

On the 30 quart mixer front, a 3/4 hp motor can draw anywhere from
11.6 amps on a 115v single phase circuit down to 1 amp on a 460 volt
three phase circuit. The advantage of the adapter is in saving the
installation costs of the three phase. We got a used motor rotary
unit for about $250. Solid state units are quieter, don't require
lubrication and are more reliable. The other advantage of three phase
is that there are lots and lots of used three phase equipment on the
market for a song. Single phase is much harder to find, and more
expensive.

Mike

On Tue, 31 Oct 2006, Mike Avery wrote:

> On the 30 quart mixer front, a 3/4 hp motor can draw anywhere from
> 11.6 amps on a 115v single phase circuit down to 1 amp on a 460 volt
> three phase circuit.

How did you arive at those numbers, Mike? The 11.6 A looks like a startup
surge at 115 V. 1 Amp at 460 3-phase is about right, if I remember my
3-phase math correctly(!). (1 A per phase times 460 = 1380 VA, divided by
sqrt(3) = 796 VA, not unreasonable for a 3/4 Hp (output) motor.

> The advantage of the adapter is in saving the installation costs of the
> three phase. We got a used motor rotary unit for about $250. Solid
> state units are quieter, don't require lubrication and are more
> reliable. The other advantage of three phase is that there are lots and
> lots of used three phase equipment on the market for a song. Single
> phase is much harder to find, and more expensive.

There are inexpensive ways of building a rotary converter for small (say
under 1 or 2 Hp) loads. Basically, a used 3-ph motor of several times
higher power rating, and a motor-run capacitor to self-excite one phase.
It will start by itself and provide 3-phase output from a single phase
line. Does need occasional lube, though...

Dave

On 10/31/06, Dave Bell > wrote:
> On Tue, 31 Oct 2006, Mike Avery wrote:
>
> > On the 30 quart mixer front, a 3/4 hp motor can draw anywhere from
> > 11.6 amps on a 115v single phase circuit down to 1 amp on a 460 volt
> > three phase circuit.
>
> How did you arive at those numbers, Mike? The 11.6 A looks like a startup
> surge at 115 V. 1 Amp at 460 3-phase is about right, if I remember my
> 3-phase math correctly(!). (1 A per phase times 460 = 1380 VA, divided by
> sqrt(3) = 796 VA, not unreasonable for a 3/4 Hp (output) motor.

Those are the ratings from the Hobart web page for a current D300
mixer. It seemed high to me too, but I'd rather let them make the
mistake than me.

http://tinyurl.com/yfwlbx points to a page at Hobart's web page. Half
way down or so there is information about spec sheets. That opens a
PDF file.


Mike