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  #41 (permalink)   Report Post  
Musashi
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"Dan Logcher" > wrote in message
...
> Musashi wrote:
>
> > "Dan Logcher" > wrote in message
> > ...
> >
> >>Musashi wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>>"Dan Logcher" > wrote in message
> ...
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>James Silverton wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>>"FreddieN" > wrote in message
> >>>>>news:c1wUc.5498$zO3.4634@trndny05...
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>Lettuce Wrap is usually associated with Korean BBQ.
> >>>>>>Don't know if they are "chinese" at all.
> >>>>>>I've seen them at PF Changs as well.
> >>>>>>Didn't look too appealing with the chunk of iceburg lettuce.
> >>>>>>And I've never seen them in any other chinese restaurant.
> >>>>>>BTW never ever order the Duck at PF Changs unless you specifically
> >>>>>>want a dried out steamed bird. One of the places I doubt I'll ever
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>go to
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>again if I had any choice.
> >>>>>>On the good side though, none of the food has that "old wok" smell.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>I've seen them in "Chinese" restaurants in France tho' that may not
> >>>>>prove too much since such restaurants are often Indo-Chinese or
> >>>>>Vietnamese influenced.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>I've seen lettuce wraps in Vietnamese restaurants, with roasted meat,
> >>>>peanuts, and a few other things.
> >>>>
> >>>>--
> >>>>Dan
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>If you ever run out of lettuce to wrap beef, Shiso is pretty

intersting.
> >>>
> >>Indeed! Will Red Shiso work? I have tons of it growing now..
> >>I might have to kill it for my impending source of green shiso.

> >
> > Never tried it with Red Shiso, but don't see why it shouldn't work.
> > The Red/Green is an asthetic thing anway for presentation.

>
> To me, the red leaves seem to have less flavor and a tougher texture
> than the green. I've read that red is only used for pickling.
>


Hmm...that might be right. I see Red Shiso being used usually in conjunction
with
other things, Umeboshi being the most common, or small red shiso leaves as a
decoration.
Are you planning on replacing it all with Green shiso? I guess this is for
next year?



  #42 (permalink)   Report Post  
Musashi
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"Dan Logcher" > wrote in message
...
> Musashi wrote:
>
> > "Dan Logcher" > wrote in message
> > ...
> >
> >>Musashi wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>>"Dan Logcher" > wrote in message
> ...
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>James Silverton wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>>"FreddieN" > wrote in message
> >>>>>news:c1wUc.5498$zO3.4634@trndny05...
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>Lettuce Wrap is usually associated with Korean BBQ.
> >>>>>>Don't know if they are "chinese" at all.
> >>>>>>I've seen them at PF Changs as well.
> >>>>>>Didn't look too appealing with the chunk of iceburg lettuce.
> >>>>>>And I've never seen them in any other chinese restaurant.
> >>>>>>BTW never ever order the Duck at PF Changs unless you specifically
> >>>>>>want a dried out steamed bird. One of the places I doubt I'll ever
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>go to
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>again if I had any choice.
> >>>>>>On the good side though, none of the food has that "old wok" smell.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>I've seen them in "Chinese" restaurants in France tho' that may not
> >>>>>prove too much since such restaurants are often Indo-Chinese or
> >>>>>Vietnamese influenced.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>I've seen lettuce wraps in Vietnamese restaurants, with roasted meat,
> >>>>peanuts, and a few other things.
> >>>>
> >>>>--
> >>>>Dan
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>If you ever run out of lettuce to wrap beef, Shiso is pretty

intersting.
> >>>
> >>Indeed! Will Red Shiso work? I have tons of it growing now..
> >>I might have to kill it for my impending source of green shiso.

> >
> > Never tried it with Red Shiso, but don't see why it shouldn't work.
> > The Red/Green is an asthetic thing anway for presentation.

>
> To me, the red leaves seem to have less flavor and a tougher texture
> than the green. I've read that red is only used for pickling.
>


Hmm...that might be right. I see Red Shiso being used usually in conjunction
with
other things, Umeboshi being the most common, or small red shiso leaves as a
decoration.
Are you planning on replacing it all with Green shiso? I guess this is for
next year?



  #43 (permalink)   Report Post  
Dan Logcher
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Musashi wrote:

> "Dan Logcher" > wrote in message
> ...
>
>>Musashi wrote:
>>
>>
>>>"Dan Logcher" > wrote in message
...
>>>
>>>
>>>>Musashi wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>"Dan Logcher" > wrote in message
...
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>James Silverton wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>"FreddieN" > wrote in message
>>>>>>>news:c1wUc.5498$zO3.4634@trndny05...
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Lettuce Wrap is usually associated with Korean BBQ.
>>>>>>>>Don't know if they are "chinese" at all.
>>>>>>>>I've seen them at PF Changs as well.
>>>>>>>>Didn't look too appealing with the chunk of iceburg lettuce.
>>>>>>>>And I've never seen them in any other chinese restaurant.
>>>>>>>>BTW never ever order the Duck at PF Changs unless you specifically
>>>>>>>>want a dried out steamed bird. One of the places I doubt I'll ever
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>go to
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>again if I had any choice.
>>>>>>>>On the good side though, none of the food has that "old wok" smell.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>I've seen them in "Chinese" restaurants in France tho' that may not
>>>>>>>prove too much since such restaurants are often Indo-Chinese or
>>>>>>>Vietnamese influenced.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>I've seen lettuce wraps in Vietnamese restaurants, with roasted meat,
>>>>>>peanuts, and a few other things.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>--
>>>>>>Dan
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>If you ever run out of lettuce to wrap beef, Shiso is pretty
>>>>>

> intersting.
>
>>>>Indeed! Will Red Shiso work? I have tons of it growing now..
>>>>I might have to kill it for my impending source of green shiso.
>>>>
>>>Never tried it with Red Shiso, but don't see why it shouldn't work.
>>>The Red/Green is an asthetic thing anway for presentation.
>>>

>>To me, the red leaves seem to have less flavor and a tougher texture
>>than the green. I've read that red is only used for pickling.
>>
>>

>
> Hmm...that might be right. I see Red Shiso being used usually in conjunction
> with
> other things, Umeboshi being the most common, or small red shiso leaves as a
> decoration.
> Are you planning on replacing it all with Green shiso? I guess this is for
> next year?


Yes, I was told the red and green will cross pollinate creating a mixed breed
that isn't as good. So I will pull up the red this fall before it seeds and
plant green in the spring. I really wanted green anyways, but the red is very
pretty.

--
Dan

  #44 (permalink)   Report Post  
Dan Logcher
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Musashi wrote:

> "Dan Logcher" > wrote in message
> ...
>
>>Musashi wrote:
>>
>>
>>>"Dan Logcher" > wrote in message
...
>>>
>>>
>>>>Musashi wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>"Dan Logcher" > wrote in message
...
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>James Silverton wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>"FreddieN" > wrote in message
>>>>>>>news:c1wUc.5498$zO3.4634@trndny05...
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Lettuce Wrap is usually associated with Korean BBQ.
>>>>>>>>Don't know if they are "chinese" at all.
>>>>>>>>I've seen them at PF Changs as well.
>>>>>>>>Didn't look too appealing with the chunk of iceburg lettuce.
>>>>>>>>And I've never seen them in any other chinese restaurant.
>>>>>>>>BTW never ever order the Duck at PF Changs unless you specifically
>>>>>>>>want a dried out steamed bird. One of the places I doubt I'll ever
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>go to
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>again if I had any choice.
>>>>>>>>On the good side though, none of the food has that "old wok" smell.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>I've seen them in "Chinese" restaurants in France tho' that may not
>>>>>>>prove too much since such restaurants are often Indo-Chinese or
>>>>>>>Vietnamese influenced.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>I've seen lettuce wraps in Vietnamese restaurants, with roasted meat,
>>>>>>peanuts, and a few other things.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>--
>>>>>>Dan
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>If you ever run out of lettuce to wrap beef, Shiso is pretty
>>>>>

> intersting.
>
>>>>Indeed! Will Red Shiso work? I have tons of it growing now..
>>>>I might have to kill it for my impending source of green shiso.
>>>>
>>>Never tried it with Red Shiso, but don't see why it shouldn't work.
>>>The Red/Green is an asthetic thing anway for presentation.
>>>

>>To me, the red leaves seem to have less flavor and a tougher texture
>>than the green. I've read that red is only used for pickling.
>>
>>

>
> Hmm...that might be right. I see Red Shiso being used usually in conjunction
> with
> other things, Umeboshi being the most common, or small red shiso leaves as a
> decoration.
> Are you planning on replacing it all with Green shiso? I guess this is for
> next year?


Yes, I was told the red and green will cross pollinate creating a mixed breed
that isn't as good. So I will pull up the red this fall before it seeds and
plant green in the spring. I really wanted green anyways, but the red is very
pretty.

--
Dan

  #45 (permalink)   Report Post  
Betty Lee
 
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Default

Dan Logcher > wrote:
+ I had Korean BBQ a few weeks ago, and they gave us lettuce leaves and
+ something similar to huge shiso leaves. They didn't have the same flavor
+ but had a similar look, the jagged edges and such.

Grape leaves, maybe?



  #46 (permalink)   Report Post  
Betty Lee
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Dan Logcher > wrote:
+ I had Korean BBQ a few weeks ago, and they gave us lettuce leaves and
+ something similar to huge shiso leaves. They didn't have the same flavor
+ but had a similar look, the jagged edges and such.

Grape leaves, maybe?

  #47 (permalink)   Report Post  
John Droge
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"Betty Lee" > wrote in message
...
> Dan Logcher > wrote:
> + I had Korean BBQ a few weeks ago, and they gave us lettuce leaves and
> + something similar to huge shiso leaves. They didn't have the same

flavor
> + but had a similar look, the jagged edges and such.
>
> Grape leaves, maybe?
>

Maybe sesame leaves? My ex would often use them when we had Ssam.
John


  #48 (permalink)   Report Post  
John Droge
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"Betty Lee" > wrote in message
...
> Dan Logcher > wrote:
> + I had Korean BBQ a few weeks ago, and they gave us lettuce leaves and
> + something similar to huge shiso leaves. They didn't have the same

flavor
> + but had a similar look, the jagged edges and such.
>
> Grape leaves, maybe?
>

Maybe sesame leaves? My ex would often use them when we had Ssam.
John


  #49 (permalink)   Report Post  
ggull
 
Posts: n/a
Default

"Betty Lee" > wrote >
> I remember my grandmother making dishes wrapped in lettuce and then
> steamed. I also remember my grandmother being horrified when she
> came over here and found that we often eat lettuce raw.


About 15-20 years ago I was travelling with a vegetarian friend, and in San
Francisco's Chinatown. We chose a restaurant because it was pretty cheap,
and it had a veggie dish that she just had to see what it really was --
description was something like "lettuce with sauce." We go in, and it's
just long tables, and we're the only non-Asian faces. The staff ushers us
to some seats slightly aside, and there is much scurrying around and they
proudly come out with a couple of forks they found somewhere (of course we
both were adept with chopsticks). Finally, the mysterious dish came out ...
and it was a half head of iceburg lettuce, steamed, with oyster sauce (I
think) :-).


  #50 (permalink)   Report Post  
ggull
 
Posts: n/a
Default

"Betty Lee" > wrote >
> I remember my grandmother making dishes wrapped in lettuce and then
> steamed. I also remember my grandmother being horrified when she
> came over here and found that we often eat lettuce raw.


About 15-20 years ago I was travelling with a vegetarian friend, and in San
Francisco's Chinatown. We chose a restaurant because it was pretty cheap,
and it had a veggie dish that she just had to see what it really was --
description was something like "lettuce with sauce." We go in, and it's
just long tables, and we're the only non-Asian faces. The staff ushers us
to some seats slightly aside, and there is much scurrying around and they
proudly come out with a couple of forks they found somewhere (of course we
both were adept with chopsticks). Finally, the mysterious dish came out ...
and it was a half head of iceburg lettuce, steamed, with oyster sauce (I
think) :-).




  #51 (permalink)   Report Post  
DC.
 
Posts: n/a
Default

It's a standard Southern Chinese dish called 'YaoChoi' in Cantonese. Simply
translated.... Yao=oil, Choi=veg. This is how many Chinese cook their
vegs/greens. The veg. is either blanched in hot water or lightly boiled,
sometimes cooked in a wok with a little ho****er or stock etc. there's many
ways of doing it & it's up to the chef. The veg is then drained & oil or
flavoured oil is added together with oyster sauce or soya sauce etc. It is
then served. When you go to a Cantonese or Chinese rest. you'd normally ask
the waiter what fresh vegs. they have for YaoChoi & you would then decide
how you want it cooked, sometimes with garlic or sometimes just oil &
oyster/soya sauce etc. Depending on the season(winter & spring), sometimes
you can get young pea shoots(Dao Miu) & i would always have this cooked with
garlic.

DC.


"ggull" > wrote in message
...
> "Betty Lee" > wrote >
> > I remember my grandmother making dishes wrapped in lettuce and then
> > steamed. I also remember my grandmother being horrified when she
> > came over here and found that we often eat lettuce raw.

>
> About 15-20 years ago I was travelling with a vegetarian friend, and in

San
> Francisco's Chinatown. We chose a restaurant because it was pretty cheap,
> and it had a veggie dish that she just had to see what it really was --
> description was something like "lettuce with sauce." We go in, and it's
> just long tables, and we're the only non-Asian faces. The staff ushers us
> to some seats slightly aside, and there is much scurrying around and they
> proudly come out with a couple of forks they found somewhere (of course we
> both were adept with chopsticks). Finally, the mysterious dish came out

....
> and it was a half head of iceburg lettuce, steamed, with oyster sauce (I
> think) :-).
>
>



  #52 (permalink)   Report Post  
DC.
 
Posts: n/a
Default

It's a standard Southern Chinese dish called 'YaoChoi' in Cantonese. Simply
translated.... Yao=oil, Choi=veg. This is how many Chinese cook their
vegs/greens. The veg. is either blanched in hot water or lightly boiled,
sometimes cooked in a wok with a little ho****er or stock etc. there's many
ways of doing it & it's up to the chef. The veg is then drained & oil or
flavoured oil is added together with oyster sauce or soya sauce etc. It is
then served. When you go to a Cantonese or Chinese rest. you'd normally ask
the waiter what fresh vegs. they have for YaoChoi & you would then decide
how you want it cooked, sometimes with garlic or sometimes just oil &
oyster/soya sauce etc. Depending on the season(winter & spring), sometimes
you can get young pea shoots(Dao Miu) & i would always have this cooked with
garlic.

DC.


"ggull" > wrote in message
...
> "Betty Lee" > wrote >
> > I remember my grandmother making dishes wrapped in lettuce and then
> > steamed. I also remember my grandmother being horrified when she
> > came over here and found that we often eat lettuce raw.

>
> About 15-20 years ago I was travelling with a vegetarian friend, and in

San
> Francisco's Chinatown. We chose a restaurant because it was pretty cheap,
> and it had a veggie dish that she just had to see what it really was --
> description was something like "lettuce with sauce." We go in, and it's
> just long tables, and we're the only non-Asian faces. The staff ushers us
> to some seats slightly aside, and there is much scurrying around and they
> proudly come out with a couple of forks they found somewhere (of course we
> both were adept with chopsticks). Finally, the mysterious dish came out

....
> and it was a half head of iceburg lettuce, steamed, with oyster sauce (I
> think) :-).
>
>



  #53 (permalink)   Report Post  
Dan Logcher
 
Posts: n/a
Default

DC. wrote:

> It's a standard Southern Chinese dish called 'YaoChoi' in Cantonese. Simply
> translated.... Yao=oil, Choi=veg. This is how many Chinese cook their
> vegs/greens. The veg. is either blanched in hot water or lightly boiled,
> sometimes cooked in a wok with a little ho****er or stock etc. there's many
> ways of doing it & it's up to the chef. The veg is then drained & oil or
> flavoured oil is added together with oyster sauce or soya sauce etc. It is
> then served. When you go to a Cantonese or Chinese rest. you'd normally ask
> the waiter what fresh vegs. they have for YaoChoi & you would then decide
> how you want it cooked, sometimes with garlic or sometimes just oil &
> oyster/soya sauce etc. Depending on the season(winter & spring), sometimes
> you can get young pea shoots(Dao Miu) & i would always have this cooked with
> garlic.


Dao Miu is on of my favorites! When we eat out with the wife's family, we always
order this. They charge about $12 for this dish.. kind of pricey for a plate of
greens.

--
Dan

  #54 (permalink)   Report Post  
Dan Logcher
 
Posts: n/a
Default

DC. wrote:

> It's a standard Southern Chinese dish called 'YaoChoi' in Cantonese. Simply
> translated.... Yao=oil, Choi=veg. This is how many Chinese cook their
> vegs/greens. The veg. is either blanched in hot water or lightly boiled,
> sometimes cooked in a wok with a little ho****er or stock etc. there's many
> ways of doing it & it's up to the chef. The veg is then drained & oil or
> flavoured oil is added together with oyster sauce or soya sauce etc. It is
> then served. When you go to a Cantonese or Chinese rest. you'd normally ask
> the waiter what fresh vegs. they have for YaoChoi & you would then decide
> how you want it cooked, sometimes with garlic or sometimes just oil &
> oyster/soya sauce etc. Depending on the season(winter & spring), sometimes
> you can get young pea shoots(Dao Miu) & i would always have this cooked with
> garlic.


Dao Miu is on of my favorites! When we eat out with the wife's family, we always
order this. They charge about $12 for this dish.. kind of pricey for a plate of
greens.

--
Dan

  #55 (permalink)   Report Post  
DC.
 
Posts: n/a
Default

<snip>
>
> Dao Miu is on of my favorites! When we eat out with the wife's family, we

always
> order this. They charge about $12 for this dish.. kind of pricey for a

plate of
> greens.
>


My favourite too but once you know how difficult it is to grow & find
DaoMiu, you'll appreaciate it! Firstly it's harvested from young pea shoots,
i.e green peas & not every variety of peas have edible shoots or young
leaves. Secondly it's only grown during the colder months just before
Spring. But if the winter is too cold, you'll lose the crop. It's def. not
grown in Summer or Autumn. Hence it's seasonal. Thirdly..... for a plate
full of DaoMiu, you need to pluck lots of young emerging shoots that have
not grown or developed into full leaves. Each shoot is about an inch long.
Finally.... if your restaurant insists on using the best shoots, that makes
it even more expensive as they are very hard to get. The other varieties are
not as nice or 'sweet' even though they can be grown out of season. I once
ordered some that were grown in slightly warmer climates & were larger in
size. They were distinctly more 'bitter' or 'green' tasting. I even tried
growing some myself in desperation..... after all the hard work put into it,
all of it ended up in my wok & eaten in less than 5 mins...... that's the
whole bleedin' crop!! Now i just save up & make sure to ring my favurite
chinese rest. & ask if they have any in season & if the answer is yes, i'll
ask them to put a bundle aside for me which often requires me to take my
card out! This is green GOLD ! LOL.

DC




  #56 (permalink)   Report Post  
DC.
 
Posts: n/a
Default

<snip>
>
> Dao Miu is on of my favorites! When we eat out with the wife's family, we

always
> order this. They charge about $12 for this dish.. kind of pricey for a

plate of
> greens.
>


My favourite too but once you know how difficult it is to grow & find
DaoMiu, you'll appreaciate it! Firstly it's harvested from young pea shoots,
i.e green peas & not every variety of peas have edible shoots or young
leaves. Secondly it's only grown during the colder months just before
Spring. But if the winter is too cold, you'll lose the crop. It's def. not
grown in Summer or Autumn. Hence it's seasonal. Thirdly..... for a plate
full of DaoMiu, you need to pluck lots of young emerging shoots that have
not grown or developed into full leaves. Each shoot is about an inch long.
Finally.... if your restaurant insists on using the best shoots, that makes
it even more expensive as they are very hard to get. The other varieties are
not as nice or 'sweet' even though they can be grown out of season. I once
ordered some that were grown in slightly warmer climates & were larger in
size. They were distinctly more 'bitter' or 'green' tasting. I even tried
growing some myself in desperation..... after all the hard work put into it,
all of it ended up in my wok & eaten in less than 5 mins...... that's the
whole bleedin' crop!! Now i just save up & make sure to ring my favurite
chinese rest. & ask if they have any in season & if the answer is yes, i'll
ask them to put a bundle aside for me which often requires me to take my
card out! This is green GOLD ! LOL.

DC


  #57 (permalink)   Report Post  
Dan Logcher
 
Posts: n/a
Default

DC. wrote:

> <snip>
>
>>Dao Miu is on of my favorites! When we eat out with the wife's family, we
>>

> always
>
>>order this. They charge about $12 for this dish.. kind of pricey for a
>>

> plate of
>
>>greens.
>>
>>

>
> My favourite too but once you know how difficult it is to grow & find
> DaoMiu, you'll appreaciate it! Firstly it's harvested from young pea shoots,
> i.e green peas & not every variety of peas have edible shoots or young
> leaves. Secondly it's only grown during the colder months just before
> Spring. But if the winter is too cold, you'll lose the crop. It's def. not
> grown in Summer or Autumn. Hence it's seasonal. Thirdly..... for a plate
> full of DaoMiu, you need to pluck lots of young emerging shoots that have
> not grown or developed into full leaves. Each shoot is about an inch long.
> Finally.... if your restaurant insists on using the best shoots, that makes
> it even more expensive as they are very hard to get. The other varieties are
> not as nice or 'sweet' even though they can be grown out of season. I once
> ordered some that were grown in slightly warmer climates & were larger in
> size. They were distinctly more 'bitter' or 'green' tasting. I even tried
> growing some myself in desperation..... after all the hard work put into it,
> all of it ended up in my wok & eaten in less than 5 mins...... that's the
> whole bleedin' crop!! Now i just save up & make sure to ring my favurite
> chinese rest. & ask if they have any in season & if the answer is yes, i'll
> ask them to put a bundle aside for me which often requires me to take my
> card out! This is green GOLD ! LOL.


I asked why it was so expensive at the Super 88 food court Chinese restaurant
near my work, and the lady replied similarly but mostly to the amount of work
and amount it makes. She didn't meantion the seasonal part of it, just that
it takes a lot to make a little.

Damn good though!

--
Dan

  #58 (permalink)   Report Post  
Jayde
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"JJ" > wrote in message
...
| Hi all....
| Quick question.... The lettuce wraps that are being found in new chinese
| restaurants.....Does anyone know if these are in any way authentic
chinese
| cuisine, or are they an american (western) creation?
| I've seen them at PF changs, and some other 'up scale' chinese
restaurants,
| but never in a neighborhood restaurant...
| Thanks for any info.....
| S.


Ok, now you've done it - I ended up making this last night, the spicy pork
version anyway, and served it with a light won ton soup! This newsgroup
makes me hungry! Korean is lined up for tonight - LOL

~Jayde





  #59 (permalink)   Report Post  
Jayde
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"JJ" > wrote in message
...
| Hi all....
| Quick question.... The lettuce wraps that are being found in new chinese
| restaurants.....Does anyone know if these are in any way authentic
chinese
| cuisine, or are they an american (western) creation?
| I've seen them at PF changs, and some other 'up scale' chinese
restaurants,
| but never in a neighborhood restaurant...
| Thanks for any info.....
| S.


Ok, now you've done it - I ended up making this last night, the spicy pork
version anyway, and served it with a light won ton soup! This newsgroup
makes me hungry! Korean is lined up for tonight - LOL

~Jayde





  #60 (permalink)   Report Post  
ggull
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"Dan Logcher" > wrote
> DC. wrote:
> >
> > My favourite too but once you know how difficult it is to grow & find
> > DaoMiu, you'll appreaciate it! Firstly it's harvested from young pea

shoots,
> > i.e green peas & not every variety of peas have edible shoots or young
> > leaves. Secondly it's only grown during the colder months just before
> > Spring. But if the winter is too cold, you'll lose the crop. It's def.

not
> > grown in Summer or Autumn. Hence it's seasonal. Thirdly..... for a plate
> > full of DaoMiu, you need to pluck lots of young emerging shoots that

have
> > not grown or developed into full leaves. Each shoot is about an inch

long.
> > Finally.... if your restaurant insists on using the best shoots, that

makes
> > it even more expensive as they are very hard to get. The other varieties

are
> > not as nice or 'sweet' even though they can be grown out of season. I

once
> > ordered some that were grown in slightly warmer climates & were larger

in
> > size. They were distinctly more 'bitter' or 'green' tasting. I even

tried
> > growing some myself in desperation..... after all the hard work put into

it,
> > all of it ended up in my wok & eaten in less than 5 mins...... that's

the
> > whole bleedin' crop!! Now i just save up & make sure to ring my

favurite
> > chinese rest. & ask if they have any in season & if the answer is yes,

i'll
> > ask them to put a bundle aside for me which often requires me to take my
> > card out! This is green GOLD ! LOL.

>
> I asked why it was so expensive at the Super 88 food court Chinese

restaurant
> near my work, and the lady replied similarly but mostly to the amount of

work
> and amount it makes. She didn't meantion the seasonal part of it, just

that
> it takes a lot to make a little.


Is that the Super88 in Brighton, MA? I never got them in the restaurant
there, but the ones they have in the market (and all the pea-pod
shoots/tendrils I've ever seen, raw or cooked in restaurant) don't seem a
lot like what DC describes, an inch long without even full leaves. Instead,
I see stems of considerable length (8 inches or more) with good size leaves
and long curly 'tendrils'. It takes a lot of picking through and
discarding to get something to cook that doesn't come out tough, which is
why a Chinese friend told me they're so expensive in restaurant -- that
plate you get may be the residue of a couple of pounds.

Incidentally, if you're in the Boston area and can get to the farmers'
markets, there's a great stand run by Hmong from out in Western Mass. They
have a number of Asian greens, very nice quality (and washing is more a
formality than necessity:-), and *cheap* compared to Super88. They have the
best pea-pod tendrils I've seen, though nothing like the real fancy stuff
described by DC. I catch them at the Arlington Center market, Wednesday
afternoons (1:30 - ?6). I could ask where else they show up.




  #61 (permalink)   Report Post  
ggull
 
Posts: n/a
Default

I'm familiar with that preparation and have had it fairly often the past few
years (though I didn't know the generic name), and from what I can recall 20
years later, the lettuce was nothing like what I've had more recently.
Maybe it's faulty memory, maybe it's just the sort of "whole lettuceness" of
it (it wasn't cut up, just a perfect half-head cut side down). I can't
recall it's having that sheen of oil, but it was a long time ago. (And it
wasn't a special, 'catch of the day', sort of thing, it was part of one of
those 10-page menus posted in the window. I can't now recall if there were
other veggie dishes or not, and if so why she chose that one.)

"DC." > wrote ...
> It's a standard Southern Chinese dish called 'YaoChoi' in Cantonese.

Simply
> translated.... Yao=oil, Choi=veg. This is how many Chinese cook their
> vegs/greens. The veg. is either blanched in hot water or lightly boiled,
> sometimes cooked in a wok with a little ho****er or stock etc. there's

many
> ways of doing it & it's up to the chef. The veg is then drained & oil or
> flavoured oil is added together with oyster sauce or soya sauce etc. It is
> then served. When you go to a Cantonese or Chinese rest. you'd normally

ask
> the waiter what fresh vegs. they have for YaoChoi & you would then decide
> how you want it cooked, sometimes with garlic or sometimes just oil &
> oyster/soya sauce etc. ....
>
> DC.
>
>
> "ggull" > wrote
> > About 15-20 years ago I was travelling with a vegetarian friend, and in

> San
> > Francisco's Chinatown. We chose a restaurant because it was pretty

cheap,
> > and it had a veggie dish that she just had to see what it really was --
> > description was something like "lettuce with sauce." ...
>> Finally, the mysterious dish came out
> > and it was a half head of iceburg lettuce, steamed, with oyster sauce (I
> > think) :-).



  #62 (permalink)   Report Post  
DC.
 
Posts: n/a
Default

<snip>
>
> Is that the Super88 in Brighton, MA? I never got them in the restaurant
> there, but the ones they have in the market (and all the pea-pod
> shoots/tendrils I've ever seen, raw or cooked in restaurant) don't seem a
> lot like what DC describes, an inch long without even full leaves.

Instead,
> I see stems of considerable length (8 inches or more) with good size

leaves
> and long curly 'tendrils'. It takes a lot of picking through and
> discarding to get something to cook that doesn't come out tough, which is
> why a Chinese friend told me they're so expensive in restaurant -- that
> plate you get may be the residue of a couple of pounds.
>


Your Chinese friend is correct, it's a residue of many pounds but it's also
best plucked very early on in the season, in fact the first buds of young
leaves before it forms into proper leaves are the best, less 'green'
tasting. Hence 'pea shoots' as in young undeveloped leaves. That's what
DaoMiu is. The fully grown leaves are tough, bitter or 'green' tasting &
some varieties of peas have leaves that are not edible. Over here in the UK,
you hardly see pea shoots/DaoMiu in Chinese supermarkets or veg.
stalls/green grocers. I've only seen it once when it was in season/winter &
the shop was selling off the 'ends' of it because it didn't look very fresh
& good. I guess young shoots don't last very long from the time it's plucked
to the time it arrives to the shop or supplier. Like i said, all the good
ones get snapped up by the restaurants ASAP. I'm sure we can find fully
formed pea pods with tendrils & a few leaves as you'ver described but only
in English farmers market type places where you'd often find vegs. still
with leaves or vines attached. But these are fully formed peas & not the
young shoots. I have to stress that not all varieties of peas have edible
shoots & leaves. It says so in the various veg. seed catalogues & veg.
growing books i've come across. Like i said, i've tried growing some myself
& sourcing the correct variety of peas for it's young edible shoots is quite
difficult as most if not all the peas grown in the West are grown for the
peas not it's shoots. Anyway... the small crop i had grown was plucked,
cooked & eaten in a few minutes. It was OK but it wasn't that great esp.
when you look at the bare spot in your garden where the peas once grew. LOL.


> Incidentally, if you're in the Boston area and can get to the farmers'
> markets, there's a great stand run by Hmong from out in Western Mass.

They
> have a number of Asian greens, very nice quality (and washing is more a
> formality than necessity:-), and *cheap* compared to Super88. They have

the
> best pea-pod tendrils I've seen, though nothing like the real fancy stuff
> described by DC. I catch them at the Arlington Center market, Wednesday
> afternoons (1:30 - ?6). I could ask where else they show up.


The pea shoots/DaoMiu i've seen raw & uncooked in markets seem to be
different & varies. In HK & China i've seen really fresh & almost bud like
shoots that are about an inch in size. These were selling like hotcakes &
there weren't many. Some grannies test them by picking one up & eating it
raw to taste the 'sweetness' of it. While others i've seen in hotter Asian
countries like Malaysia & Singapore are larger & looks more well formed, in
fact i didn't recognise them at all until i saw the names next to the veg. I
was told they're not the same variety as the ones in cooler climate
countries like HK & China. These were also tougher & more 'green' tasting.
Ask the Hmong if the pea shoots/pea-pod tendrils they sell are the same ones
as the Chinese restaurants. That's the best way of finding out & if it is,
please ask them what variety it is. I might fancy growing some again as
Autumn is just round the corner. Thanks.

DC.


  #63 (permalink)   Report Post  
ggull
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"DC." > wrote
> best plucked very early on in the season, in fact the first buds of young
> leaves before it forms into proper leaves are the best, less 'green'
> tasting. Hence 'pea shoots' as in young undeveloped leaves. That's what
> DaoMiu is. The fully grown leaves are tough, bitter or 'green' tasting &
> some varieties of peas have leaves that are not edible.


From what I've cooked myself, both supermarket and Hmong, the leaves are
tender, it's the stems that can be tough, even fairly small ones. They come
out somewhat more tender if they're stir-fried (i.e. cooked at high heat
with oil) than if steamed or boiled. I'm not sure if the leaves are fully
mature, but they aren't just buds.

Over here in the UK,
> you hardly see pea shoots/DaoMiu in Chinese supermarkets or veg.
> stalls/green grocers. I've only seen it once when it was in season/winter

&
> the shop was selling off the 'ends' of it because it didn't look very

fresh
> & good. I guess young shoots don't last very long from the time it's

plucked
> to the time it arrives to the shop or supplier. Like i said, all the good
> ones get snapped up by the restaurants ASAP. I'm sure we can find fully
> formed pea pods with tendrils & a few leaves as you'ver described


I didn't mean to give the impression that there were actual pea pods --
that's just the name it goes by sometimes, "pea pod shoots"; here in the US
"pea pod" includes snow peas and snap peas and is used to distinguish from
just "pea", which is the "English pea" you have to shell. So the name just
means "shoots from snow peas". The nomenclature is confusing :-).

<snip>
> The pea shoots/DaoMiu i've seen raw & uncooked in markets seem to be
> different & varies. In HK & China i've seen really fresh & almost bud like
> shoots that are about an inch in size. These were selling like hotcakes &
> there weren't many. Some grannies test them by picking one up & eating it
> raw to taste the 'sweetness' of it. While others i've seen in hotter Asian
> countries like Malaysia & Singapore are larger & looks more well formed,

in
> fact i didn't recognise them at all until i saw the names next to the veg.

I
> was told they're not the same variety as the ones in cooler climate
> countries like HK & China. These were also tougher & more 'green' tasting.
> Ask the Hmong if the pea shoots/pea-pod tendrils they sell are the same

ones
> as the Chinese restaurants. That's the best way of finding out & if it is,
> please ask them what variety it is. I might fancy growing some again as
> Autumn is just round the corner. Thanks.


I'll see what I can get from them. I just discovered them (this may be
their first year at this farmer's market, or I may just not have
particularly noticed before), and 2 out of the 3 times I've been at the
stall, it was being run by a young woman who didn't know much and was just
filling in. If I run into her aunt again I 'll try to get more information
for you. Since we're in New England, the climate is kind of UK'ish, so it
might work for you. But if they do grow the really young shoots you
mention, that would probably be before or after the market season, and would
go directly to restaurants.


  #64 (permalink)   Report Post  
DC.
 
Posts: n/a
Default

<snip>
>
> I'll see what I can get from them. I just discovered them (this may be
> their first year at this farmer's market, or I may just not have
> particularly noticed before), and 2 out of the 3 times I've been at the
> stall, it was being run by a young woman who didn't know much and was just
> filling in. If I run into her aunt again I 'll try to get more

information
> for you. Since we're in New England, the climate is kind of UK'ish, so it
> might work for you. But if they do grow the really young shoots you
> mention, that would probably be before or after the market season, and

would
> go directly to restaurants.
>


Thanks !!

DC.


  #65 (permalink)   Report Post  
Dan Logcher
 
Posts: n/a
Default

ggull wrote:

>
> Is that the Super88 in Brighton, MA? I never got them in the restaurant
> there, but the ones they have in the market (and all the pea-pod
> shoots/tendrils I've ever seen, raw or cooked in restaurant) don't seem a
> lot like what DC describes, an inch long without even full leaves. Instead,
> I see stems of considerable length (8 inches or more) with good size leaves
> and long curly 'tendrils'. It takes a lot of picking through and
> discarding to get something to cook that doesn't come out tough, which is
> why a Chinese friend told me they're so expensive in restaurant -- that
> plate you get may be the residue of a couple of pounds.



Yeah, that's the one. I go there at least twice a week for lunch, and some
shopping in the market. It does take a lot of raw greens to make a plate of
DaoMiu. It's like spinach, it shrinks down to nothing when cooked.


> Incidentally, if you're in the Boston area and can get to the farmers'
> markets, there's a great stand run by Hmong from out in Western Mass. They
> have a number of Asian greens, very nice quality (and washing is more a
> formality than necessity:-), and *cheap* compared to Super88. They have the
> best pea-pod tendrils I've seen, though nothing like the real fancy stuff
> described by DC. I catch them at the Arlington Center market, Wednesday
> afternoons (1:30 - ?6). I could ask where else they show up.


Hmmm, I might have to take off a Wednesday and check that out.
And stop at Toraya for lunch

--
Dan



  #66 (permalink)   Report Post  
Tippi
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Betty Lee > wrote in message
> According to...
>
> http://www.whfoods.com/genpage.php?t...dspice&dbid=61
>
> "In China, where lettuce has
> been growing since the 5th century, lettuce represents good luck.


"Represent good luck" is not quite right. Lettuce, "sang choi", sounds
very much like "make money" in Cantonese; the superstitious Chinese
are partial to have dishes that sound fortuitous, especially in terms
of wealth. In fact, lettuce wrap sounds like "make money for sure", so
it is a most welcomed dish. (Some New Years dishes are so pretentious
and obscure that we have to consult the waiter to find out what they
are, if an explanation is not at hand, e.g. "Gold Coins Keep Rolling
In", might be simply Mushrooms stuffed with mashed shimp.)

One reason why it is found more in fancier restaurents might be
because it is frequently served as an appetizer as it does not go well
with rice. Family style restaurents probably doesn't want to bother
with it.

BTW the native lettuce in China looks more like a Romaine. The Iceberg
lettuce used in the wraps is known as "western lettuce". The modern
dish probably evolved from the tradition of flour pancakes wrappers. I
do not remember having it as a child in Hong Kong, but my mom did
serve them when I visited as an adult. I've also seen the dish called
"Crystal Fold".
  #67 (permalink)   Report Post  
Peter Dy
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"Ian" > wrote in message
news:8ozUc.120393$cv5.8307@lakeread07...
[...]
> Yan-Kit's 'Classic Chinese Cook Book' has a recipe for Lettuce Wrapped
> Chicken, and says its a 'Southern dish'. It looks quite like the PF
> Chang dish, though I have yet to try making it.
>
> [Thanks to whoever it was here who recommended the book - its really

good.]


Glad that book worked out for you! It's awesome. And after you've given
some of those recipes a whirl, get her _Classic Food of China_ book too. I
think it's out of print, but would be available at abebooks.com. Just the
great, historically-informed intro is worth it.

And I again encourage folks to get Dunlop's Sichuan book before it too goes
out of print. It will. In 3 years, I'll bet it won't be on the shelves in
bookstores. If only for one's reference library.

Peter



  #68 (permalink)   Report Post  
ggull
 
Posts: n/a
Default

"ggull" > wrote
>
> "DC." > wrote
> > Ask the Hmong if the pea shoots/pea-pod tendrils they sell are the same

> ones
> > as the Chinese restaurants. That's the best way of finding out & if it

is,
> > please ask them what variety it is. I might fancy growing some again as
> > Autumn is just round the corner. Thanks.

>
> I'll see what I can get from them.


Well, I actually went to two farmers markets and ran into two booths
seemingly from the same Hmong outfit. The pea-pod shoots were sold out at
one, but they had plenty at the other, go figger.

Anyway, I forgot to ask the first part of your question. But from the
handful of times I've had them in restaurants, they certainly seem the same
as to overall size and configuration. I've certainly never had the almost
sprout-like ones you mentioned.

Freshness seems to be a key. Their regulation 'bunch' is way more than one
serving, and I cooked some the same night I got them, then again the next
day in the same way (break stems into short lengths, stir fry in oil until
wilted, then add chow fun noodles and a bit of sauce), and they were
significantly tougher (especially the actual curly 'tendril' part) the
second day both in the picking over and the eating.

As to your second part, what variety, one flat out said it didn't matter
much, they used just "regular peas", meaning English peas (the type you
shell before eating). The other referred me to some woman (non-Asian) they
seemed to know, and she basically said the same, suggesting that what she
called "field peas" (meant for ground cover) should be fine, and the seed is
cheaper. But it wasn't clear she had done it herself. There was also an
opinion that snow peas might be appropriate. Best I can say is try a few
varieties and report back in the spring :-).

To those asking about which markets the Hmong sell at in the Boston area,
the ones I saw were both on Wednesday afternoons, Somerville (Davis Square,
12:30-6?) and Arlington (Center, 1:30-6:30). One stand (I forgot to ask at
the other) said they are also at Newton on Tuesdays, and there was a recent
article in the Boston Globe that said they were at "some in Boston,
Brookline" and the Somerville and Newton ones' I mentioned (but didn't list
Arlington). The article is at:
http://www.boston.com/ae/food/articl.../short_orders/

and for posterity since these only remain up for a month or two:

"A tasty twist
They curl up in bizarre shapes. What are those green things? They're a
spring delicacy in Chinatown: pea shoots, also called pea tendrils ($2 a
bunch), which are available in farmers' markets through September, thanks to
staggered planting by the Hmong farmers of Lancaster and Dracut. One bunch
is about 1 pound. The shoots have thick, corrugated stems with leaves as
round and big as quarters jutting out at odd angles and those intriguing
tendrils twisting into interesting shapes. The taste is cress-like. Wash and
cut into 2-inch lengths and add raw to salads, or stir-fry in mild oil with
garlic for 2 minutes or until they wilt. Sprinkle with soy. "Do not
overcook," advises Maria Moreira, who works with the Hmong on her Lancaster
dairy farm. They are best when slightly crispy.
ANDREAE DOWNS
Pea tendrils are at many farmers' markets, including some in Boston,
Brookline, Newton, and Somerville."

There was a nice picture in the paper, but it's not on the site; too bad, as
it might resolve some of the confusion of what we're talking about.
Incidentally, the leaves *are not* "as round and as big as quarters" (an
American coin about 1/2 inch or 1-2 cm across), but, well, leaf-shaped and
up to 2 or even 3 inches.


  #69 (permalink)   Report Post  
ggull
 
Posts: n/a
Default

"ggull" > wrote
>
> "DC." > wrote
> > Ask the Hmong if the pea shoots/pea-pod tendrils they sell are the same

> ones
> > as the Chinese restaurants. That's the best way of finding out & if it

is,
> > please ask them what variety it is. I might fancy growing some again as
> > Autumn is just round the corner. Thanks.

>
> I'll see what I can get from them.


Well, I actually went to two farmers markets and ran into two booths
seemingly from the same Hmong outfit. The pea-pod shoots were sold out at
one, but they had plenty at the other, go figger.

Anyway, I forgot to ask the first part of your question. But from the
handful of times I've had them in restaurants, they certainly seem the same
as to overall size and configuration. I've certainly never had the almost
sprout-like ones you mentioned.

Freshness seems to be a key. Their regulation 'bunch' is way more than one
serving, and I cooked some the same night I got them, then again the next
day in the same way (break stems into short lengths, stir fry in oil until
wilted, then add chow fun noodles and a bit of sauce), and they were
significantly tougher (especially the actual curly 'tendril' part) the
second day both in the picking over and the eating.

As to your second part, what variety, one flat out said it didn't matter
much, they used just "regular peas", meaning English peas (the type you
shell before eating). The other referred me to some woman (non-Asian) they
seemed to know, and she basically said the same, suggesting that what she
called "field peas" (meant for ground cover) should be fine, and the seed is
cheaper. But it wasn't clear she had done it herself. There was also an
opinion that snow peas might be appropriate. Best I can say is try a few
varieties and report back in the spring :-).

To those asking about which markets the Hmong sell at in the Boston area,
the ones I saw were both on Wednesday afternoons, Somerville (Davis Square,
12:30-6?) and Arlington (Center, 1:30-6:30). One stand (I forgot to ask at
the other) said they are also at Newton on Tuesdays, and there was a recent
article in the Boston Globe that said they were at "some in Boston,
Brookline" and the Somerville and Newton ones' I mentioned (but didn't list
Arlington). The article is at:
http://www.boston.com/ae/food/articl.../short_orders/

and for posterity since these only remain up for a month or two:

"A tasty twist
They curl up in bizarre shapes. What are those green things? They're a
spring delicacy in Chinatown: pea shoots, also called pea tendrils ($2 a
bunch), which are available in farmers' markets through September, thanks to
staggered planting by the Hmong farmers of Lancaster and Dracut. One bunch
is about 1 pound. The shoots have thick, corrugated stems with leaves as
round and big as quarters jutting out at odd angles and those intriguing
tendrils twisting into interesting shapes. The taste is cress-like. Wash and
cut into 2-inch lengths and add raw to salads, or stir-fry in mild oil with
garlic for 2 minutes or until they wilt. Sprinkle with soy. "Do not
overcook," advises Maria Moreira, who works with the Hmong on her Lancaster
dairy farm. They are best when slightly crispy.
ANDREAE DOWNS
Pea tendrils are at many farmers' markets, including some in Boston,
Brookline, Newton, and Somerville."

There was a nice picture in the paper, but it's not on the site; too bad, as
it might resolve some of the confusion of what we're talking about.
Incidentally, the leaves *are not* "as round and as big as quarters" (an
American coin about 1/2 inch or 1-2 cm across), but, well, leaf-shaped and
up to 2 or even 3 inches.


  #70 (permalink)   Report Post  
DC.
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Hi ggull,

Thanks for reporting back & taking the time to have a look around the 2
farmers market. I've heard lots about the Hmong growers across the pond
where you are. They seem to be extremely good at growing vegs. & supplying
them all over the States. btw... read the post on LA Times food section by
toledo. It's about the Hmongs.

OK i've found some info about pea shoots & i think the common English name
for it is snow pea shoots & within the Cantonese speaking community, the
name for it when translated into English is 'Holland beans' ie. snow peas or
sugar pea. Here's a link & photo of it
http://www.theproducehunter.com/prod...ay.asp?ID=2275 The photo shows
the leaves, some shoots & tendrils & the article describes it as "... the
thin, delicately crisp new growth of the snow pea plant, including the
tender uppermost leaves and the tendrils" & it goes on to mention the
preference for the younger tips rather than the stem/body & older leaves.

I don't know maybe the variety the Hmong grow in the states have more tender
stems but the ones we get served in restaurants here in the UK are mainly
greens & tips, sometimes we get stems too but if it's a really top Chinese
restaurant i.e. you pay £££ for a plate of it, it'll be young leaves & tips,
no stems & just like spinach, they wilt & shrink & you can imagine the
chopstick fencing duels & fights over this plate of greens. It's normally
the first plate to be empty too!

As for the actual size of the leaves, the really expensive pickings for the
restaurants are the young leaves & shoots & as shoots go, they're no larger
than... i would say 4cm or about an inch & half. When i grew mine last
year/2 years ago. I had the plant trailing up a stick with fully grown
leaves, it eventually ended with a few young leaves, tendrils & the
'enclosed' or slightly opened shoot that looked like a 'green bud' but it's
basically all leaves & is soft & tender if you squeeze it. I just plucked
these & a few young leaves. I would imagine the restaurant would do the same
although how much of the plant/veg is actually delivered to them i don't
know. Maybe they get given a bunch with stems as you've described but the
chefs would clean & pick only the shoots & young leaves to be cooked. Like i
say... in cheaper restaurants you'll find the stems included as well. I
think in general, we're talking about the same veg. here but maybe different
varieties. And also the preference for younger leaves & shoots instead of
stems & grown leaves when served in expensive Chinese restaurants.

In Asia.. i think they have a different varieties. I've seen ones with stems
& small leaves but they're pale green in colour? but the pick of the crop,
the expensive stuff is always in a smaller bag, just the tips & you'd be
lucky to see it because there's very little of it & they sell out really
fast. You've got to get up at 6am & be at the wet market with all the hustle
& bustle, shouting & screaming too. Oh that's if you live out in the sticks,
in town it's probably all supermarkets.

Well i hope that clears up any confusion.... i'll try & look for sugar pea
seeds or snow pea seeds & plant them soon & report back in a few months
time, unless the wood pigeons get to them first, then it'll be roast squab
or pigeon & game pie!

DC.



"ggull" > wrote in message
...
> "ggull" > wrote
> >
> > "DC." > wrote
> > > Ask the Hmong if the pea shoots/pea-pod tendrils they sell are the

same
> > ones
> > > as the Chinese restaurants. That's the best way of finding out & if it

> is,
> > > please ask them what variety it is. I might fancy growing some again

as
> > > Autumn is just round the corner. Thanks.

> >
> > I'll see what I can get from them.

>
> Well, I actually went to two farmers markets and ran into two booths
> seemingly from the same Hmong outfit. The pea-pod shoots were sold out at
> one, but they had plenty at the other, go figger.
>
> Anyway, I forgot to ask the first part of your question. But from the
> handful of times I've had them in restaurants, they certainly seem the

same
> as to overall size and configuration. I've certainly never had the almost
> sprout-like ones you mentioned.
>
> Freshness seems to be a key. Their regulation 'bunch' is way more than

one
> serving, and I cooked some the same night I got them, then again the next
> day in the same way (break stems into short lengths, stir fry in oil until
> wilted, then add chow fun noodles and a bit of sauce), and they were
> significantly tougher (especially the actual curly 'tendril' part) the
> second day both in the picking over and the eating.
>
> As to your second part, what variety, one flat out said it didn't matter
> much, they used just "regular peas", meaning English peas (the type you
> shell before eating). The other referred me to some woman (non-Asian)

they
> seemed to know, and she basically said the same, suggesting that what she
> called "field peas" (meant for ground cover) should be fine, and the seed

is
> cheaper. But it wasn't clear she had done it herself. There was also an
> opinion that snow peas might be appropriate. Best I can say is try a few
> varieties and report back in the spring :-).
>
> To those asking about which markets the Hmong sell at in the Boston area,
> the ones I saw were both on Wednesday afternoons, Somerville (Davis

Square,
> 12:30-6?) and Arlington (Center, 1:30-6:30). One stand (I forgot to ask

at
> the other) said they are also at Newton on Tuesdays, and there was a

recent
> article in the Boston Globe that said they were at "some in Boston,
> Brookline" and the Somerville and Newton ones' I mentioned (but didn't

list
> Arlington). The article is at:
> http://www.boston.com/ae/food/articl.../short_orders/
>
> and for posterity since these only remain up for a month or two:
>
> "A tasty twist
> They curl up in bizarre shapes. What are those green things? They're a
> spring delicacy in Chinatown: pea shoots, also called pea tendrils ($2 a
> bunch), which are available in farmers' markets through September, thanks

to
> staggered planting by the Hmong farmers of Lancaster and Dracut. One bunch
> is about 1 pound. The shoots have thick, corrugated stems with leaves as
> round and big as quarters jutting out at odd angles and those intriguing
> tendrils twisting into interesting shapes. The taste is cress-like. Wash

and
> cut into 2-inch lengths and add raw to salads, or stir-fry in mild oil

with
> garlic for 2 minutes or until they wilt. Sprinkle with soy. "Do not
> overcook," advises Maria Moreira, who works with the Hmong on her

Lancaster
> dairy farm. They are best when slightly crispy.
> ANDREAE DOWNS
> Pea tendrils are at many farmers' markets, including some in Boston,
> Brookline, Newton, and Somerville."
>
> There was a nice picture in the paper, but it's not on the site; too bad,

as
> it might resolve some of the confusion of what we're talking about.
> Incidentally, the leaves *are not* "as round and as big as quarters" (an
> American coin about 1/2 inch or 1-2 cm across), but, well, leaf-shaped and
> up to 2 or even 3 inches.
>
>





  #71 (permalink)   Report Post  
ggull
 
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"DC." > wrote
> OK i've found some info about pea shoots & i think the common English name
> for it is snow pea shoots & within the Cantonese speaking community, the
> name for it when translated into English is 'Holland beans' ie. snow peas

or
> sugar pea. Here's a link & photo of it
> http://www.theproducehunter.com/prod...ay.asp?ID=2275


Thanks, that looks very much like what I'm talking about.
The Hmong market ones are a total of maybe 8-12 inches from the tips to end
of stems, and you will probably trim most of the stem. The Asian
supermarket variety are soemwhat larger.
But when you pick and trim, the most delicate parts are an inch or few long,
sort of like the finest picking of tea leaves.

> As for the actual size of the leaves, the really expensive pickings for

the
> restaurants are the young leaves & shoots & as shoots go, they're no

larger
> than... i would say 4cm or about an inch & half. When i grew mine last
> year/2 years ago. I had the plant trailing up a stick with fully grown
> leaves, it eventually ended with a few young leaves, tendrils & the
> 'enclosed' or slightly opened shoot that looked like a 'green bud' but

it's
> basically all leaves & is soft & tender if you squeeze it.


I think this is where I was getting confused -- when you said sprouts an
inch or two long, I thought you were speaking of the entire plant from the
soil (or whatever) up, as in bean sprouts. It occurred to me to wonder
after my last post, and now it's apparent that you were describing the part
picked off of larger plants.
[I wonder if it might work to have a crop that you make repeated pickings
from, like potted herbs? ]

For what it's worth, in the last batch there were a few that had blossomed
and had even developed tiny little peas, looking just like snow peas to me
(though I don't know what an English pea looks like as a half-inch baby).

As to stems or not -- when very fresh (at a guess 12 hours after cut) the
stems were crisp and easily broke into 1 or 2 inch lengths which were fine
when cooked. The next day, the stems were kind of stringy, and the tendrils
also got tough (or maybe that was the third day when I still had a few
left). By stems, I mean maybe half the thickness of a typical lead pencil,
maybe 2-3 mm. There are smaller stems off of these, with a pair of leaves
at the juncture, and the smaller stems have the flowers or those 'green
buds' you mention at their end.

Luck growing them next year, though I can't swear I wouldn't just as soon
have a squab or two :-).


  #72 (permalink)   Report Post  
DC.
 
Posts: n/a
Default

<snip>
> Thanks, that looks very much like what I'm talking about.
> The Hmong market ones are a total of maybe 8-12 inches from the tips to

end
> of stems, and you will probably trim most of the stem. The Asian
> supermarket variety are soemwhat larger.
> But when you pick and trim, the most delicate parts are an inch or few

long,
> sort of like the finest picking of tea leaves.


Never seen the larger ones here in the shops i don't think, on the very few
occasions that i was able to see some for sale, they were about 6-9inches,
wilted & very sad looking. Best & freshest crop goes directly to
restaurants.

> I think this is where I was getting confused -- when you said sprouts an
> inch or two long, I thought you were speaking of the entire plant from the
> soil (or whatever) up, as in bean sprouts. It occurred to me to wonder
> after my last post, and now it's apparent that you were describing the

part
> picked off of larger plants.
> [I wonder if it might work to have a crop that you make repeated pickings
> from, like potted herbs? ]


I plucked a few when they were about 1-2 feet high, tasted good in the mouth
raw but was too little to make a cooked meal out of them. The rest of the
plant seemed stunted after that & not growing much after. The others i let
them grow to 3 feet or so & were 'bushy' or thick with growth that's when i
harvested the lot for 1 reasonable meal. Maybe i've got poor soil here & it
wasn't good enough to keep them growing for repeated pickings although i
believe it is possible if you selectively pluck the shoots & not 12" or more
of the plant. I think that would be too severe & it'll die.

> Luck growing them next year, though I can't swear I wouldn't just as soon
> have a squab or two :-).


Autumn has arrived with a north westerly cold front this weekend, so it'll
be squab first.... then pea shoots a few months later.

Nice talking to yer ggull !

DC.


  #73 (permalink)   Report Post  
DC.
 
Posts: n/a
Default

<snip>
> Thanks, that looks very much like what I'm talking about.
> The Hmong market ones are a total of maybe 8-12 inches from the tips to

end
> of stems, and you will probably trim most of the stem. The Asian
> supermarket variety are soemwhat larger.
> But when you pick and trim, the most delicate parts are an inch or few

long,
> sort of like the finest picking of tea leaves.


Never seen the larger ones here in the shops i don't think, on the very few
occasions that i was able to see some for sale, they were about 6-9inches,
wilted & very sad looking. Best & freshest crop goes directly to
restaurants.

> I think this is where I was getting confused -- when you said sprouts an
> inch or two long, I thought you were speaking of the entire plant from the
> soil (or whatever) up, as in bean sprouts. It occurred to me to wonder
> after my last post, and now it's apparent that you were describing the

part
> picked off of larger plants.
> [I wonder if it might work to have a crop that you make repeated pickings
> from, like potted herbs? ]


I plucked a few when they were about 1-2 feet high, tasted good in the mouth
raw but was too little to make a cooked meal out of them. The rest of the
plant seemed stunted after that & not growing much after. The others i let
them grow to 3 feet or so & were 'bushy' or thick with growth that's when i
harvested the lot for 1 reasonable meal. Maybe i've got poor soil here & it
wasn't good enough to keep them growing for repeated pickings although i
believe it is possible if you selectively pluck the shoots & not 12" or more
of the plant. I think that would be too severe & it'll die.

> Luck growing them next year, though I can't swear I wouldn't just as soon
> have a squab or two :-).


Autumn has arrived with a north westerly cold front this weekend, so it'll
be squab first.... then pea shoots a few months later.

Nice talking to yer ggull !

DC.


  #74 (permalink)   Report Post  
Judy Cosler
 
Posts: n/a
Default

From Barbara Tropp's "The Modern Art of Chinese Cooking", in a note on
p. 212 under the recipe for Lettuce-Wrapped Oyster Beef:
"Raw lettuce wrappers are of Cantonese origin and of very recent date
and are probably a reflection of foreign taste. The Chinese
traditionally use human excrement as fertilizer -- witness one of my
favorite book titles, 'Poo-Poo Make Plant Glow' -- so raw lettuce (on
account of the poo-poo) was a no-no."

((.)) '))
((((((((
))(/)((
  #75 (permalink)   Report Post  
Judy Cosler
 
Posts: n/a
Default

From Barbara Tropp's "The Modern Art of Chinese Cooking", in a note on
p. 212 under the recipe for Lettuce-Wrapped Oyster Beef:
"Raw lettuce wrappers are of Cantonese origin and of very recent date
and are probably a reflection of foreign taste. The Chinese
traditionally use human excrement as fertilizer -- witness one of my
favorite book titles, 'Poo-Poo Make Plant Glow' -- so raw lettuce (on
account of the poo-poo) was a no-no."

((.)) '))
((((((((
))(/)((


  #76 (permalink)   Report Post  
Bob Myers
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"Judy Cosler" > wrote in message
...
> From Barbara Tropp's "The Modern Art of Chinese Cooking", in a note on
> p. 212 under the recipe for Lettuce-Wrapped Oyster Beef:
> "Raw lettuce wrappers are of Cantonese origin and of very recent date
> and are probably a reflection of foreign taste. The Chinese
> traditionally use human excrement as fertilizer -- witness one of my
> favorite book titles, 'Poo-Poo Make Plant Glow' -- so raw lettuce (on
> account of the poo-poo) was a no-no."


Ah, and so that explains the origins of the ubiquitous "poo-poo
platter".....:-)

Bob M.


  #77 (permalink)   Report Post  
Bob Myers
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"Judy Cosler" > wrote in message
...
> From Barbara Tropp's "The Modern Art of Chinese Cooking", in a note on
> p. 212 under the recipe for Lettuce-Wrapped Oyster Beef:
> "Raw lettuce wrappers are of Cantonese origin and of very recent date
> and are probably a reflection of foreign taste. The Chinese
> traditionally use human excrement as fertilizer -- witness one of my
> favorite book titles, 'Poo-Poo Make Plant Glow' -- so raw lettuce (on
> account of the poo-poo) was a no-no."


Ah, and so that explains the origins of the ubiquitous "poo-poo
platter".....:-)

Bob M.


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