Tonight Cindy and I were wandering in the ID (Seattle's International
District). We stopped for dinner at Hing Loon Seafood Restaurant. One
of their specialties is clams in black bean sauce, and after trying it I
can understand why. Wonderful stuff. Lots of fresh clams (one of the
benefits of living in Seattle), and the best damn black bean sauce I
have ever tried.

The sauce had a complex flavor, just the right amount of heat, and an
unusual consistency. In all of the recipes for black bean sauce that I
have seen, corn starch is used as the thickener. But Hing Loon's sauce
was more viscous - it was stickier, stretching into tendrils, more like
the effect you get with gumbo file or okra. Does anyone know how they
get this texture?

Maybe I should have asked, but I am always a bit shy about asking a
restaurant to divulge their secrets (and most of the time they don't).

--
Julian Vrieslander

Julian Vrieslander > wrote in
news:julianvREMOVE_THIS_PART-
:

> The sauce had a complex flavor, just the right amount of heat, and an
> unusual consistency. In all of the recipes for black bean sauce that I
> have seen, corn starch is used as the thickener. But Hing Loon's sauce
> was more viscous - it was stickier, stretching into tendrils, more like
> the effect you get with gumbo file or okra. Does anyone know how they
> get this texture?
>
> Maybe I should have asked, but I am always a bit shy about asking a
> restaurant to divulge their secrets (and most of the time they don't).
>
>

Perhaps the sauce was made like in the recipe below? In the pan with the
food stuffs, not added from a bottle. I'm not saying the bean sauce below
would taste like what you ate but possibly it was made in a similar method.

Beef and Peppers in Black Bean Sauce

A Cantonese recipe

Ingredients:

4 ounces Sirloin beef sliced thin or thick steaks
3 green peppers (or red and green peppers as desired)
1/2 small onion
2 sticks of celery
1/2 teaspoon of salt
1/2 teaspoon soy sauce
1/2 teaspoon MSG (if desired)
1 teaspoon Chinese salted black beans
2 cloves garlic
3 slices ginger
1/2 cup stock or hot water
2 tablespoons oil for cooking

Marinade:
1/4 teaspoon salt
1/2 teaspoon sugar
1/2 tablespoon soy sauce
2 tablespoons oil

Directions:
Place the beef in a bowl, and stir in the marinade ingredients. Marinate
beef for approximately thirty minutes.
While beef is marinating, prepare the vegetables. Cut peppers, onion, and
celery into 1/2 inch pieces. Mix the garlic cloves and ginger with the
black beans and chop finely.
Heat wok and add 2 tablespoons oil. When oil is ready, add 1/2 of the
black bean, garlic, and ginger mixture. Mix and add the beef. Stir-fry
until the beef is approximately 60 - 65 percent cooked. Remove the beef and
set aside.
Add the rest of the bean mixture, onions and celery. Stir-fry for 3 - 4
minutes and add the peppers. Stir-fry for a couple of minutes longer and
add 1/2 cup of stock or hot water. Bring to a boil, cover and simmer for a
couple of minutes. Add MSG if desired.
Mix, taste, and adjust the seasoning if necessary. Add the beef. Mix and
serve immediately.

--
Once during Prohibition I was forced to live for days on nothing but food
and water.
--------
FIELDS, W. C.

In article >,
hahabogus > wrote:

> Perhaps the sauce was made like in the recipe below? In the pan with the
> food stuffs, not added from a bottle. I'm not saying the bean sauce below
> would taste like what you ate but possibly it was made in a similar method.

I doubt it was a bottled sauce. Most of the recipes I've seen start
with black beans or fermented black beans. I've never used the
fermented kind - perhaps it provides the viscosity that we noticed.

--
Julian Vrieslander

"Julian Vrieslander" > wrote in
message
...
> In article >,
> hahabogus > wrote:
>
> > Perhaps the sauce was made like in the recipe below? In the pan with the
> > food stuffs, not added from a bottle. I'm not saying the bean sauce
below
> > would taste like what you ate but possibly it was made in a similar
method.
>
> I doubt it was a bottled sauce. Most of the recipes I've seen start
> with black beans or fermented black beans. I've never used the
> fermented kind - perhaps it provides the viscosity that we noticed.


Surely you've used the fermented kind; otherwise it would be a Mexican or
South American dish and not Chinese. Maybe you're mistaking the dried kind
with the wet ones? They're both fermented.

Peter

In article >,
"Peter Dy" > wrote:

> "Julian Vrieslander" > wrote in
> message
> ...
> >
> > I doubt it was a bottled sauce. Most of the recipes I've seen start
> > with black beans or fermented black beans. I've never used the
> > fermented kind - perhaps it provides the viscosity that we noticed.
>
> Surely you've used the fermented kind; otherwise it would be a Mexican or
> South American dish and not Chinese. Maybe you're mistaking the dried kind
> with the wet ones? They're both fermented.

I've never actually tried to make Chinese black bean sauce - just looked
at recipes. Some of these called for fermented beans, but (if I recall
correctly) some just called for dried or canned black beans. Maybe the
authors are assuming that a Chinese variety will be used, and that this
stuff will be the fermented kind.

--
Julian Vrieslander

"Julian Vrieslander" > wrote in
message >

> I've never actually tried to make Chinese black bean sauce - just looked
> at recipes. Some of these called for fermented beans, but (if I recall
> correctly) some just called for dried or canned black beans.

Fermented black beans and salted black beans are the same
thing. Sometimes you'll see them labeled one way, sometimes
the other. Around here (Baltimore) they seem to be most
often labeled salted black beans.

Hal Laurent
Baltimore

"Julian Vrieslander" > wrote in
message
...
> In article >,
> "Peter Dy" > wrote:
>
> > "Julian Vrieslander" > wrote in
> > message
> >
...
> > >
> > > I doubt it was a bottled sauce. Most of the recipes I've seen start
> > > with black beans or fermented black beans. I've never used the
> > > fermented kind - perhaps it provides the viscosity that we noticed.
> >
> > Surely you've used the fermented kind; otherwise it would be a Mexican
or
> > South American dish and not Chinese. Maybe you're mistaking the dried
kind
> > with the wet ones? They're both fermented.
>
> I've never actually tried to make Chinese black bean sauce - just looked
> at recipes. Some of these called for fermented beans, but (if I recall
> correctly) some just called for dried or canned black beans. Maybe the
> authors are assuming that a Chinese variety will be used, and that this
> stuff will be the fermented kind.


Ah, ok.

Peter

perhaps it provides the viscosity that we noticed.
>

I know of the viscosity of which you speak. No, it has nothing to do
with the black beans, dry or wet.
I have asked Chinese people I know who cook but they are not able to
tell me because they cook at home and are not restaurant cooks. I am
going to try Arrowroot as somebody suggested but I haven't been able to
get that viscosity either and I cook Chinese all the time. Not all
Chinese food has it, but if done right it is perfect and sticks
sufficiently to the food. I can say that I recently switched from
cornstarch to tapioca flour which is also found in Chinese grocery
stores and believe tapioca gives a better consistency. Perhaps
Arrowroot is better yet. I tried to ask this very question at a
vocational training school that sold food to the public but didn't get
an answer or a good anwer.

Explaining viscosity of a sauce is not an easy thing to do.

On Wed, 05 May 2004 10:42:31 GMT, occupant
> wrote:

>I know of the viscosity of which you speak. No, it has nothing to do
>with the black beans, dry or wet.
>I have asked Chinese people I know who cook but they are not able to
>tell me because they cook at home and are not restaurant cooks. I am
>going to try Arrowroot as somebody suggested but I haven't been able to
>get that viscosity either and I cook Chinese all the time. Not all
>Chinese food has it, but if done right it is perfect and sticks
>sufficiently to the food. I can say that I recently switched from
>cornstarch to tapioca flour which is also found in Chinese grocery
>stores and believe tapioca gives a better consistency. Perhaps
>Arrowroot is better yet.

Arrowroot breaks down (loses it's thickening power) when heated so
only add it the last minute or two of cooking.

-sw

Steve Hertz wrote:
>
>
>
> Arrowroot breaks down (loses it's thickening power) when heated so
> only add it the last minute or two of cooking.
>
> -sw

It also has a texture that some people describe as slimy, but I describe
as slippery without the fullness of taste that you get from butter. It
is a good way to add the last little bit of thickness to a sauce that
has not been reduced sufficiently.

JJ

Julian Vrieslander wrote:

> Tonight Cindy and I were wandering in the ID (Seattle's International
> District). We stopped for dinner at Hing Loon Seafood Restaurant. One
> of their specialties is clams in black bean sauce, and after trying it I
> can understand why. Wonderful stuff. Lots of fresh clams (one of the
> benefits of living in Seattle), and the best damn black bean sauce I
> have ever tried.
>
> The sauce had a complex flavor, just the right amount of heat, and an
> unusual consistency. In all of the recipes for black bean sauce that I
> have seen, corn starch is used as the thickener. But Hing Loon's sauce
> was more viscous - it was stickier, stretching into tendrils, more like
> the effect you get with gumbo file or okra. Does anyone know how they
> get this texture?
>
> Maybe I should have asked, but I am always a bit shy about asking a
> restaurant to divulge their secrets (and most of the time they don't).
>

Possibly arrowroot, or maybe a gum like agar. Arrowoot can be used in place
of corn flour.
http://www.culinarycafe.com/Spices_Herbs/Arrowroot.html

I've been cooking asian recipes for decades and replicating restautant
recipes (particularly chinese) is very elusive.

gtoomey

In article
>
,
Julian Vrieslander > wrote:

> Tonight Cindy and I were wandering in the ID (Seattle's International
> District). We stopped for dinner at Hing Loon Seafood Restaurant. One
> of their specialties is clams in black bean sauce, and after trying it I
> can understand why. Wonderful stuff. Lots of fresh clams (one of the
> benefits of living in Seattle), and the best damn black bean sauce I
> have ever tried.
>
> The sauce had a complex flavor, just the right amount of heat, and an
> unusual consistency. In all of the recipes for black bean sauce that I
> have seen, corn starch is used as the thickener. But Hing Loon's sauce
> was more viscous - it was stickier, stretching into tendrils, more like
> the effect you get with gumbo file or okra. Does anyone know how they
> get this texture?
>
> Maybe I should have asked, but I am always a bit shy about asking a
> restaurant to divulge their secrets (and most of the time they don't).

Only thing I've seen that's sticky and stretchy is Natto, but that's
Japanese http://www.ynest.com/nattoeng.htm.
Maybe they used it as a thickener...