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  #41 (permalink)   Report Post  
ggull
 
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"Peter Dy" > wrote
>
> "ggull" > wrote
>>There are so many ways to cook rices,
> > depending on variety and the desired result, and they're all good :-).

>
> Ok. But "all good"? I think it has more to do with personal

preference --
> I like my rice on the firm side, so with a fresh bag of Thai new crop
> jasmine rice, I prefer a 1:1 ratio. Those recipes that call for mushier
> rice, well, as my friend in Leningrad used to say, "Mushy rice, no good!"


Ok,OK :-) Not *all* good, but I'd say any method considered good by a
culture is good in their context. Even mushy rice, as in paella :-). I can
go for either soft, sticking together rice or firmer separate grained
product. I wouldn't make sushi with basmati, or serve perfect chopstick
rice with a curry :-).

> > I've currently got a mess of different kinds of rice that I enjoy:
> > -- parboiled rice from a Brazilian store
> > -- Thai jasmine
> > -- Indian basmati
> > -- Thai red jasmine rice, and similar 'cargo' rice
> > -- 'new crop' Tamaki gold from Calif
> > -- Kagayaki brown from Calif
> > -- french camargue in japanese packaging

>
> Woah! Camarada, where do you live?

In what I have been assured is the ass-end wasteland of world culinary
diversity, the USofA, near Boston. In areas with large Asian populations
(and to answer DC's question, 'Asian' seems to be the currently politically
correct term these days; 'oriental' is definitely out of style) you can
often find Asian 'supermarkets', a far cry from the hole-in-the-wall, dingy
Chinese markets of old. I guess they came along with the trend of more
upscale immigrants the past couple of decades. Anyway, the one near me, a
Super88, has a big selection of rice, and everything is from them but the
parboiled and the camargue, which is from a 99 Ranch Market in California.

> What's "Thai red jasmine rice"? And

Golden Chick Brand, "Red Jasmine Rice 100%", product of Thailand.
Also has stickers with just plain "Red Rice", so maybe that's the official
name in US.
A very similar, Hocean Brand [may be misspelling of Ocean, since there is a
picture of fish frolicking in the waves], "Milled Red Cargo Rice", also
"gao-dut-do", "riz complet rouge", again product of Thailand.
They look and cook very much the same, except that the Hocean brand has a
very few husks or other bits of debris to wash out (even though it's "extra
super quality":-). Basically a long grain brown rice, with a reddish brown
bran.
From "Seductions of Rice" by Jeffrey Alford and Naomi Duguid:
"Red rice grows among jasmine rice plants in Thailand.... Red rice is
brittle and difficult to polish, so its color lowers the value of any white
rice it is mixed in with. Recently, however, this 'problem' rice has become
sought after as a novelty, sold unpolished. .... Look for needle-slender
grains, mostly a reddish-brown but with the occasional bit of pale white
showing through. [the stuff I've got has occasional white grains] The rice
is unmilled (like brown rice) and so takes longer to cook."
The Hocean doesn't seem to be what Alford&Duguid call "cargo" rice, aka
"paddy" rice, which they define as harvested rice that hasn't been milled to
remove the husk, much less the bran. I.e., it's a level cruder than brown
rice. So in a sense "milled cargo rice" is contradictory.

> I've seen Indian/Pakistani parboiled rice, but never Brazilian.

I checked and it is product of Brazil. From the number of brands in the
Brazilian market (maybe even a supermarket), it must be pretty popular
there, maybe even the staple. Alford/Duguid don't mention it as Latin
American.


  #42 (permalink)   Report Post  
ggull
 
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"DC." > wrote
>. I expect a French deli or grocery shop would sell that.
> French camargue rice is short & plump & is very similar to paella or

risotto
> rice or even Japanese short grain. I wonder what kind of price mark up the
> Japanese put on it.

I got the camargue in a Asian supermarket in California. The labelling is
in Japanese and English, and I can't tell if it was packaged in France,
Japan or Los Angeles, or whether it took a detour through Japan on the way
to the US. And yes, it was expensive, 2-3 times as much as most 'better'
rices in similar (2 pound) quantities. But I had gathered that camargue was
kind of a luxury item in France itself.

>A couple of hundred miles south along the camargue coast
> & you be in Spain & i think the first bit of rice growing you'll find will
> be in the Ebro delta. I can't remember where but you'll also find rice
> growing in Italy which brings me to ask... do you grow short grain plump
> rice in America?


A great deal, especially in California (not coastal, but the Sacramento
region, I believe). A lot of Japanese-style rice, all nicely packaged to
look like it's from Japan .. probably export it to Japan.

you've already got long grain & i'm sure it's possible to
> find a coastal stretch somewhere suitable for short grain. Over here in
> Europe, we only have 1 season a year for rice growing unlike in Asia or
> anywhere warmer/tropical where you get 2 yields a year.


I'm not sure how many crops per year in Calif.


  #43 (permalink)   Report Post  
DC.
 
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<snip>
> I got the camargue in a Asian supermarket in California. The labelling is
> in Japanese and English, and I can't tell if it was packaged in France,
> Japan or Los Angeles, or whether it took a detour through Japan on the way
> to the US. And yes, it was expensive, 2-3 times as much as most 'better'
> rices in similar (2 pound) quantities. But I had gathered that camargue

was
> kind of a luxury item in France itself.


Wow, that's one hell of a detour if it was packed in Japan! 2-3 times the
price.... it must have been re-packed or someone is making a very nice
profit out of it. Yes camargue rice is probably a little luxury in parts of
France but nothing out of the ordinary i would guess. Produce in France is
cheap but when it leaves France & comes over to the UK, a significant 1/3
mark up is normal, so god only knows how much more is added on to the price
when it decides to get a round the world air ticket. I wonder if it gets to
travel 1st class or any airmiles/frequent traveller/flyer bonus points. LOL.

>
> >A couple of hundred miles south along the camargue coast
> > & you be in Spain & i think the first bit of rice growing you'll find

will
> > be in the Ebro delta. I can't remember where but you'll also find rice
> > growing in Italy which brings me to ask... do you grow short grain plump
> > rice in America?

>
> A great deal, especially in California (not coastal, but the Sacramento
> region, I believe). A lot of Japanese-style rice, all nicely packaged to
> look like it's from Japan .. probably export it to Japan.


Hmmm.... i think i'm in the wrong business!

DC.


  #44 (permalink)   Report Post  
DC.
 
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<snip>


> From "Seductions of Rice" by Jeffrey Alford and Naomi Duguid:
> "Red rice grows among jasmine rice plants in Thailand.... Red rice is
> brittle and difficult to polish, so its color lowers the value of any

white
> rice it is mixed in with. Recently, however, this 'problem' rice has

become
> sought after as a novelty, sold unpolished. .... Look for needle-slender
> grains, mostly a reddish-brown but with the occasional bit of pale white
> showing through. [the stuff I've got has occasional white grains] The rice
> is unmilled (like brown rice) and so takes longer to cook."


I don't know the book but i know the problems the rice growers have. we use
to see these 'wild rice' as we call them growing amongst the normal crop but
mainly to the outer fringes of the padi field. If the field is near a
forest/jungle, the chances are you'll get this inter-mingling of crops. Like
i say, we use to cook & eat both white & 'wild rice' together. Little did i
know we were trendy back then LOL. That reminds me, all the white rice were
sold off, probaly to some big rice supplier while the locals ate the mixed
crop.

DC.


  #45 (permalink)   Report Post  
ggull
 
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"DC." > wrote ...
>
> I don't know the book but i know the problems the rice growers have. we

use
> to see these 'wild rice' as we call them growing amongst the normal crop

but
> mainly to the outer fringes of the padi field. If the field is near a
> forest/jungle, the chances are you'll get this inter-mingling of crops.

Like
> i say, we use to cook & eat both white & 'wild rice' together. Little did

i
> know we were trendy back then LOL. That reminds me, all the white rice

were
> sold off, probaly to some big rice supplier while the locals ate the mixed
> crop.


"Seductions of Rice" is an excellent book, or seems to be. The world of
rice is pretty complex, it turns out, and they're missing some rices (such
as the "golden" rice from Armenian stores, another favorite), and some of
the info doesn't seem to gibe with what manufacturers call their rice, or
the cooking instructions, but overall very informative and fun to read. They
have a book on "Flatbreads and Flavors" that seems highly thought of also.

Just FYI, "wild rice" in English, at least in the US, usually refers to a
distinct grain (not actually a rice) that originally grew in marshes around
the great lakes (e.g. Minnesota), though now it's farmed in a number of
other areas. It's considered a gourmet item, and can range from $2-3/pound
(i.e. about the same as camargue rice :-), on up to $10 or more for the
fanciest, harvested and processed in traditional fashion (there's a lot of
history and psychology involved, as well as an interesting and delicious
grain). The grains are very long and thin, with a dark brown
bran/husk/whatever, and it has a kind of nutty flavor when cooked.




  #46 (permalink)   Report Post  
William Boyd
 
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Thai Hom Mali Rice Standard

The meaning of terminology in this standard is as follows:

Thai Hom Mali Rice means cargo rice and milled rice that obtained
from aromatic non-glutinous paddy, that is grown in Thailand, of
which varieties are certified by Ministry of Agriculture, for example
KDML105, RD15, KL1 of which have natural fragrant aroma varying
by new or old crop, cooked rice kernel is soft.

Amylose means a type of starch in rice kernel. When cooked, soft or
hard texture cooked rice vary, depending on the amount of Amylose
content.

Other terminology not defined in 1.1 and 1.2 will followed Thai Rice
Standard announced by Ministry of Commerce in 1997.




"DC." wrote:
>
> <snip>
> > Thanks, DC. I had no idea that "wild rice" also goes by the name "cargo
> > rice." Is that a British thing?

>
> I'm not sure why it's called cargo rice or if the term is of British
> origins. I've only seen it packed & sold as cargo rice in the West(UK, US
> etc.)
>
> > And..well, what does "wild rice" mean
> > exactly? That the bran is still on it?

>
> It's just a common name given by most SE Asians(Malays, Chinese, Indonesians
> etc) i know who refer to it as 'wild rice' as this is what's found growing
> wild in uncultivated areas or in forests/jungles. It's what the Ibans &
> Dayaks (natives of Borneo, of which these are only 2 tribes that i know of,
> there's more) who eat them on a regular basis. During WW2, a lot of people
> who went into hiding in forests/jungles or even people in villages & towns
> ate 'wild rice' as long grain white rice & food was hard to find. As for the
> bran question, i'm not really sure about that, because after
> cooking/boiling, one would expect the bran or husk to come off but the 'wild
> rice' that i've eaten were still red & a little firmer compared to normal
> rice. The water is also tainted slightly red & if you're cooking this with
> normal white rice, the rest of white rice comes out in a dark pinkish/red
> colour. That's how we use to cook & eat it, mixed in with white rice.
> There's also black rice & black glutinous rice & these are w/o husks as
> well. The black glutinous rice(pulot hitam in Malay) is commonly used for
> desserts in Malaysia & Indonesia. The Chinese use it as well but not as much
> or common as the Malays. I think the Chinese only make some desserts with it
> & tend to use black glut. rice mainly in it's fermentation stage where it is
> used to make black glut. rice wine. Again this is not very popular these
> days & is a dying art.
>
> > Oh, and I'm Asian too! Why do you say "we Asians call it"?

>
> I know Peter, i've read many of your previous post & figured that your
> family might be from the Philippines. Anyway... maybe i should rephrase that
> & say most SE Asians(Malays, Chinese, Indonesians etc) i know call it 'wild
> rice'. Does that make it better? With all the political correctness in the
> US, I can never tell when i'm steppin' on someones toes. Is it politically
> incorrect to use the term Asians now in the US?
>
> DC... the politically incorrect.
>
> ps. don't ask me what DC stands for, some American Chinese found it
> offensive.

  #47 (permalink)   Report Post  
Peter Dy
 
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"DC." > wrote in message
...
> <snip>
> > Thanks, DC. I had no idea that "wild rice" also goes by the name "cargo
> > rice." Is that a British thing?

>
> I'm not sure why it's called cargo rice or if the term is of British
> origins. I've only seen it packed & sold as cargo rice in the West(UK, US
> etc.)
>
> > And..well, what does "wild rice" mean
> > exactly? That the bran is still on it?

>
> It's just a common name given by most SE Asians(Malays, Chinese,

Indonesians
> etc) i know who refer to it as 'wild rice' as this is what's found growing
> wild in uncultivated areas or in forests/jungles. It's what the Ibans &
> Dayaks (natives of Borneo, of which these are only 2 tribes that i know

of,
> there's more) who eat them on a regular basis. During WW2, a lot of people
> who went into hiding in forests/jungles or even people in villages & towns
> ate 'wild rice' as long grain white rice & food was hard to find. As for

the
> bran question, i'm not really sure about that, because after
> cooking/boiling, one would expect the bran or husk to come off but the

'wild
> rice' that i've eaten were still red & a little firmer compared to normal
> rice. The water is also tainted slightly red & if you're cooking this with
> normal white rice, the rest of white rice comes out in a dark pinkish/red
> colour. That's how we use to cook & eat it, mixed in with white rice.
> There's also black rice & black glutinous rice & these are w/o husks as
> well. The black glutinous rice(pulot hitam in Malay) is commonly used for
> desserts in Malaysia & Indonesia. The Chinese use it as well but not as

much
> or common as the Malays. I think the Chinese only make some desserts with

it
> & tend to use black glut. rice mainly in it's fermentation stage where it

is
> used to make black glut. rice wine. Again this is not very popular these
> days & is a dying art.



Thanks again, DC. Nice reading.


> > Oh, and I'm Asian too! Why do you say "we Asians call it"?

>
> I know Peter, i've read many of your previous post & figured that your
> family might be from the Philippines.



Ah, ok. Was wondering why you put it like that.

Didn't have to do with PC. Though, several Asians I've spoken to recently
think the US is the most racist country on earth, so maybe you should count
your blessings you are in the UK. You might be "PC" if you actually lived
here. Who knows.

Peter





  #48 (permalink)   Report Post  
Peter Dy
 
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"ggull" > wrote in message
...
> "Peter Dy" > wrote
> >
> > "ggull" > wrote

[...]
> > What's "Thai red jasmine rice"? And

> Golden Chick Brand, "Red Jasmine Rice 100%", product of Thailand.
> Also has stickers with just plain "Red Rice", so maybe that's the

official
> name in US.
> A very similar, Hocean Brand [may be misspelling of Ocean, since there is

a
> picture of fish frolicking in the waves], "Milled Red Cargo Rice", also
> "gao-dut-do", "riz complet rouge", again product of Thailand.
> They look and cook very much the same, except that the Hocean brand has a
> very few husks or other bits of debris to wash out (even though it's

"extra
> super quality":-). Basically a long grain brown rice, with a reddish

brown
> bran.
> From "Seductions of Rice" by Jeffrey Alford and Naomi Duguid:
> "Red rice grows among jasmine rice plants in Thailand.... Red rice is
> brittle and difficult to polish, so its color lowers the value of any

white
> rice it is mixed in with. Recently, however, this 'problem' rice has

become
> sought after as a novelty, sold unpolished. .... Look for needle-slender
> grains, mostly a reddish-brown but with the occasional bit of pale white
> showing through. [the stuff I've got has occasional white grains] The rice
> is unmilled (like brown rice) and so takes longer to cook."



It's not Thai black glutinous rice? Sounds sorta like it.


> > I've seen Indian/Pakistani parboiled rice, but never Brazilian.

> I checked and it is product of Brazil. From the number of brands in the
> Brazilian market (maybe even a supermarket), it must be pretty popular
> there, maybe even the staple. Alford/Duguid don't mention it as Latin
> American.



I posted a question about Indian parboiled rice here once, and got only one
reply. Good reply though. Does your Brazilian parboiled rice have an
unpleasant odor, perhaps?

Peter


  #49 (permalink)   Report Post  
ggull
 
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"Peter Dy" > wrote ...
> "ggull" > wrote
> > Golden Chick Brand, "Red Jasmine Rice 100%", product of Thailand.
>>.... Basically a long grain brown rice, with a reddish brown bran.
> > From "Seductions of Rice" by Jeffrey Alford and Naomi Duguid:
> > "Red rice grows among jasmine rice plants in Thailand.... Red rice is
> > brittle and difficult to polish, so its color lowers the value of any

> white
> > rice it is mixed in with. Recently, however, this 'problem' rice has

> become
> > sought after as a novelty, sold unpolished. .... Look for needle-slender
> > grains, mostly a reddish-brown but with the occasional bit of pale white
> > showing through. [the stuff I've got has occasional white grains] The

rice
> > is unmilled (like brown rice) and so takes longer to cook."

>
>
> It's not Thai black glutinous rice? Sounds sorta like it.


I don't think so. (1) Alford and Duguid distinguish the two, although they
call "black glutinous" simply "black". (2) I happened to be in the store
today, after reading your post, and noticed some Thai black 'sticky' rice;
it did look much the same but was closer to black. The 'red' is more the
color of, say, the bark you use in gardening, or redwood. (3) There doesn't
seem to be anything sticky or sweet about the cooked rice; it's very much
like the Lunenberg's "black japonica" blend in taste and feel.

> > > I've seen Indian/Pakistani parboiled rice, but never Brazilian.

<...>
> I posted a question about Indian parboiled rice here once, and got only

one
> reply. Good reply though. Does your Brazilian parboiled rice have an
> unpleasant odor, perhaps?


Not that I've noticed, though my nose is not the most sensitive due to
allergies.


  #50 (permalink)   Report Post  
Peter Dy
 
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"ggull" > wrote in message
...
> "Peter Dy" > wrote ...
> > "ggull" > wrote
> > > Golden Chick Brand, "Red Jasmine Rice 100%", product of Thailand.
> >>.... Basically a long grain brown rice, with a reddish brown bran.
> > > From "Seductions of Rice" by Jeffrey Alford and Naomi Duguid:
> > > "Red rice grows among jasmine rice plants in Thailand.... Red rice is
> > > brittle and difficult to polish, so its color lowers the value of any

> > white
> > > rice it is mixed in with. Recently, however, this 'problem' rice has

> > become
> > > sought after as a novelty, sold unpolished. .... Look for

needle-slender
> > > grains, mostly a reddish-brown but with the occasional bit of pale

white
> > > showing through. [the stuff I've got has occasional white grains] The

> rice
> > > is unmilled (like brown rice) and so takes longer to cook."

> >
> >
> > It's not Thai black glutinous rice? Sounds sorta like it.

>
> I don't think so. (1) Alford and Duguid distinguish the two, although

they
> call "black glutinous" simply "black". (2) I happened to be in the store
> today, after reading your post, and noticed some Thai black 'sticky' rice;
> it did look much the same but was closer to black. The 'red' is more the
> color of, say, the bark you use in gardening, or redwood. (3) There

doesn't
> seem to be anything sticky or sweet about the cooked rice; it's very much
> like the Lunenberg's "black japonica" blend in taste and feel.



Thanks.


> > > > I've seen Indian/Pakistani parboiled rice, but never Brazilian.

> <...>
> > I posted a question about Indian parboiled rice here once, and got only

> one
> > reply. Good reply though. Does your Brazilian parboiled rice have an
> > unpleasant odor, perhaps?

>
> Not that I've noticed, though my nose is not the most sensitive due to
> allergies.



Hmm. I wonder if its "parboiled" nature is different from the Indian
version. In the earlier post of mine that I mentioned, I quoted a website
explaining how it's "parboiled" (my comments added in brackets):

"Parboiling is one of the best ways of processing rice. Parboiling means
soaking paddy [rice still in husk] in water for a period of one to three
days, steaming once or twice and then drying and milling. This process
implies the cooking of the grain [ie. that the rice is thus "parboiled", I
think] with the husk [still on]. "

http://www.sanjeevkapoor.com/health_nutrition/rice.asp

Later, the rice is milled, and remaining grain is a yellowish-brown color.
My Bengal cookbook adds: "For the uninitiated the less
'smelly' varieties of parboiled rice are recommended." So, that's why I
asked if the Brazilian one had an unpleasant odor.

Does that Seduction of Rice book say anything about "smelly" Indian
parboiled rice?

Peter





  #51 (permalink)   Report Post  
ggull
 
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"Peter Dy" > wrote
> > > > > I've seen Indian/Pakistani parboiled rice, but never Brazilian.

> > <...>
> > > . Does your Brazilian parboiled rice have an unpleasant odor,

perhaps?
> >
> > Not that I've noticed...


> Hmm. I wonder if its "parboiled" nature is different from the Indian
> version. In the earlier post of mine that I mentioned, I quoted a website
> explaining how it's "parboiled" (my comments added in brackets):
>
> "Parboiling is one of the best ways of processing rice. Parboiling means
> soaking paddy [rice still in husk] in water for a period of one to three
> days, steaming once or twice and then drying and milling. This process
> implies the cooking of the grain [ie. that the rice is thus "parboiled", I
> think] with the husk [still on]. "
>
> http://www.sanjeevkapoor.com/health_nutrition/rice.asp
>
> Later, the rice is milled, and remaining grain is a yellowish-brown color.


Interesting site, thanks for the ref.
The Seduction of Rice book describes a somewhat different technique,
observed in a village in Bengal near Calcutta. The rice is boiled briefly,
a few minutes, in small batches and then dried in the sun before husking and
milling. Maybe this steaming is more of a commercial process. They go into
changes in the starches which give parboiled rice its "hard waxy"
appearance.

> My Bengal cookbook adds: "For the uninitiated the less
> 'smelly' varieties of parboiled rice are recommended." So, that's why I
> asked if the Brazilian one had an unpleasant odor.
>
> Does that Seduction of Rice book say anything about "smelly" Indian
> parboiled rice?


Not a word that I could find.


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