On 3/15/04 2:35 PM, "Dick Adams" > wrote:

>
> "williamwaller" > wrote in message
> news:mailman.60.1079372506.204.rec.food.sourdough@ mail.otherwhen.com...
>
>> If you would point me to the links for appropriate posting etiquette
>
> http://www.nyx.net/~dgreenw/newcomertips.html
>
> http://www.nyx.net/~dgreenw/sourdoughfaqs.html

Thanks. Per the first... I will start snipping.
>
>> Mike apparently has a good starter. The elusive flavor he seeks requires
> longer dough fermentation.
>
> That is consistent with the general belief. However, it seemed that he was
> talking about a longer *sponge* fermentation. That would be consistent with
> the general erroneous belief.

I think Mike was talking about a longer sponge fermentation too. He hasn't
gotten the gist of the build process. He's still using the starter like
commercial yeast. Get it bubbling like mad then make bread right away.
>
>> He will learn more quickly if we show him the other dials to adjust.
>
> You can lead a dial diddler to dials, but you can't make him diddle.
>
> Usually, the newcomers (newbies) prefer to make sour bricks from
> overdeveloped preferments. Typically they report that their bread is
> just as they had hoped it would be, that their wife loves it, and that their
> kids cannot get enough of it. That is why they are called nOObies. In
> fact, in most cases, even the birds will not eat their stuff.
>
Come on... We've all made bricks and lied about it, or our wives or children
have politely lied to us about it. You cannot get to good bread without
pulling a few weeds. Sounds to me like you've experienced the birds'
perspective too.


Every now and then, however, some one appears briefly on the scene
> who figures out how to make credible bread, for instance:
> http://www.cookingwithcrack.com/bread/sequence2/
>

Indeed he has. His bread looks great. But he's probably not the noobie you
think he is... Kamut isn't something that leaps off the grocery shelf at
you. I had never heard of the pressure-cooker-to-copper-pipe-bleed-in-oven
routine before. It sounds very interesting.

Is there anyone out there who can add some intelligence to this technique?

> There are a few others, but I can't find the links right now.

Surfacing the pressure cooker trick was plenty good for me...

Will
>
> Carl's starter is at www.carlsfriends.org